Cybergoth Posted August 22, 2006 Share Posted August 22, 2006 Hi there! I just stumbled accross an interesting bit in the atarimania database, where the cover scan of "Beach Head" says that the Atari version is 100% machine code. Now, I know that the original C64 version is a basic/assembly hybrid, so I wonder if the Atari port benefitted here from a later birth. Does anyone know wether the Atari version saw some significant improvements over the C64 version somewhere? Greetings, Manuel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rybags Posted August 22, 2006 Share Posted August 22, 2006 From memory the Atari version was inferior. Lack of colour, worse sound. The only real benefit would have been speed, but I don't think even that was different. I never got the impression that the C-64 version had any BASIC content (other than the usual single-line SYS code). Beach Head 2 was a better effort - some nice explosions and effects, but from memory they didn't bother with speech effects on either of the Atari versions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allas Posted August 22, 2006 Share Posted August 22, 2006 (edited) Sometimes memory fails Practically Beach Head 1 is the same version in Atari 800 and C64.... well, some jerky colored text in the score could be a +1 point in the C64 version. Both version are old and lack of colors. Beach Heach 2 is from 1986, just when C64 was the top 8bit machine porting. But the Atari version is superior graphically by far. You right, Atari version dont include the speech effects, I think for Atari 800 (48K) compatibility. In overall is impresive the Atari version, using the color DLIs, multicolored sprites, sound efects... Edited August 22, 2006 by Allas 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cybergoth Posted August 23, 2006 Author Share Posted August 23, 2006 I never got the impression that the C-64 version had any BASIC content (other than the usual single-line SYS code). That's probably just a pretty easy trick to hide the BASIC code. The SYS would then only jump into some small ASM snippet that relocates the beginning of the BASIC RAM a few bytes higher and then runs the BASIC code residing there. C64 programmers occasionally did things like that. That way they could do the game logic in BASIC and only the action scenes in ASM. Pirates! is another major example of that technique. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fröhn Posted August 23, 2006 Share Posted August 23, 2006 When it comes to BASIC code combined with assembly code, usually only type-in programs did that to save space in magazines. After all a integer number between 0-255 plus komma takes up more space than a single character in a PRINT statement. Anyway back to beach had: The C64 version really uses a bit BASIC, but not much. It's just the menu screen and score stuff, the game itself is 100% assembly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cybergoth Posted August 23, 2006 Author Share Posted August 23, 2006 Anyway back to beach had: The C64 version really uses a bit BASIC, but not much. It's just the menu screen and score stuff, the game itself is 100% assembly. Wouldn't that be less than 100% then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fröhn Posted August 23, 2006 Share Posted August 23, 2006 Anyway back to beach had: The C64 version really uses a bit BASIC, but not much. It's just the menu screen and score stuff, the game itself is 100% assembly. Wouldn't that be less than 100% then? Maybe I was slightly too unclear. With "the game" I talk about the game engine. There are other examples of BASIC + ML games which also have BASIC running when somebody plays the game (for score display, or simply game logic i.e. player has died/extra life etc). But this is not the case: When you play the game, it's 100% assembler code running. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allas Posted August 23, 2006 Share Posted August 23, 2006 C64 lose memory if BASIC is still active? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cybergoth Posted August 23, 2006 Author Share Posted August 23, 2006 If you're still considering BASIC/ASM hybrid code: The 8K BASIC ROM needs to be active in the memory map to run BASIC code, but while you execute the ASM parts you can switch in the RAM again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fröhn Posted August 23, 2006 Share Posted August 23, 2006 C64 lose memory if BASIC is still active? Depends on what "lose" means. When running BASIC routines, the KERNAL ROM, BASIC ROM and I/O area need to be active. That's 20 KiB. Then BASIC needs ofcourse some variables in the area between $0000-$03FF. But an assembly routine might ofcourse switch off ROM when it starts and turn it on again when it returns to BASIC. If you're still considering BASIC/ASM hybrid code: The 8K BASIC ROM needs to be active in the memory map to run BASIC code, but while you execute the ASM parts you can switch in the RAM again. Like I said above: For assembly routines this doesn't matter. And in Beach Head the BASIC is not active during the game engine anyway, so you never need to have the ROM active there. Also, even if ROM is enabled the VIC2 still is able to display the RAM underneath. So by placing your bitmap/character/sprite data below the ROM or I/O areas you can use all 64 KiB RAM even if ROM stays enabled all the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+remowilliams Posted August 23, 2006 Share Posted August 23, 2006 Beach Heach 2 is from 1986, just when C64 was the top 8bit machine porting. But the Atari version is superior graphically by far. You right, Atari version dont include the speech effects, I think for Atari 800 (48K) compatibility. In overall is impresive the Atari version, using the color DLIs, multicolored sprites, sound efects... That's just about exactly what I was going to say. And I've played them both very recently Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tjlazer Posted August 26, 2006 Share Posted August 26, 2006 Back in the day I remember when I got this game it was a flippy disk so I got to play it on my C64 and 130XE! Both versions are almost identicle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heaven/TQA Posted August 26, 2006 Share Posted August 26, 2006 i like beach head 1 but beach 2 was laughable compared to the c64 version... esp. missing the speech... and my c64 mates laughed when the comic bubbles appear instead of "you sucker"... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allas Posted August 26, 2006 Share Posted August 26, 2006 Atari Version / C64 version The C64 speech was funny and missing in the 48K Atari version. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cybergoth Posted August 26, 2006 Author Share Posted August 26, 2006 But the Atari version is superior graphically by far. Atari Version / C64 version Uhm... so you were just joking? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heaven/TQA Posted August 26, 2006 Share Posted August 26, 2006 ok. the atari version seems more colour full in BH2 but lacks in atmosphere... the small comic sprites and the missing speech... wasnt there a big cry when the tank hit the player? or the sound effects were not good as good as the c64 ones... still would go for the c64 version i am afraid... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allas Posted August 26, 2006 Share Posted August 26, 2006 Finding for more information about Beach head 2, I found this excelente site. Just look at the animated sprites!!! Interesting review from Atari 8bit http://www.intellivision.ca/index2.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spanner Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 I would love to get a cas version of Beach Head.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tjlazer Posted October 3, 2014 Share Posted October 3, 2014 The reason the Atari version is inferior is because they had to code it in 48k. (most were done in 48k to be compatible with the Atari 800) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Dragon Posted October 3, 2014 Share Posted October 3, 2014 The speech simply 'made' Beach Head II for myself, added so much atmosphere to the game.The A8 version lacking it, is sadly a mere shadow of an experience for myself in comparison. Audio is still sadly so often an 'over-looked' medium in games today. Whilst i appreciate the A8 version was only 48K and still very playable, it's just not the same experience and it's with games like this it's sometimes hard to 'sell' the merits of the A8 range to friends who only ever knew the C64 etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Loguidice Posted October 3, 2014 Share Posted October 3, 2014 I agree about the speech. Particularly back then, what would be an otherwise average or mostly non-memorable experience was greatly enhanced by clever speech. It really was a big deal. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rybags Posted October 3, 2014 Share Posted October 3, 2014 The speech could be added with a bit of work. Would probably turn both into 64K games at the least but do the system justice by making the game as it should have been. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Dragon Posted October 3, 2014 Share Posted October 3, 2014 :-) This won't mean anything to readers outside the UK, but... The A8 version of Beach Head II is like the ITV version of the film Die Hard (compared to the Movie or in this example C64 version).So...you have all the explosions, same 'cast', action sequences etc but something is missing, been altered and it really detracts from the atmosphere.. In ITV's case it was the likes of:'yippee-ki-yay, muddy funkster' seeming to appear from our hero rather than what we were used to and it simply was'nt on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Posted October 3, 2014 Share Posted October 3, 2014 (edited) It's interesting that the games don't seem to share any graphics. It seems they were developed in isolation from a specification. Edited October 3, 2014 by Bryan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atarian63 Posted October 3, 2014 Share Posted October 3, 2014 another example of more attention paid to c64, many poor releases back in the day, we refused to carry bad products like this, if you cheesed out on Atari, were mostly would not support your company Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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