5200 controllers suck

[phuzaxeman]

i've read a lot of opinions dogging the 5200 controllers. yes, they broke down a lot but to me the 5200 controllers were ahead of the competition during that time period.

 

there are a few things that i feel would have changed the whole negative vibe about these innovative controllers:

 

1) having the fire buttons be able to click (being made of hard plastic) rather than the sponge feel when pressed, so that way you would have better precision

 

2) having the analog joystick be able to center better to help games like pacman play easier

 

3) overall reliabilty so the joysticks wouldn't break down (i.e., buttons going out) -i'm not an expert; how to do that is another question.

 

had these 3 expectations been done, these controllers would have changed the whole outlook. instead of going backwards like what the 7800 design was, atari should have improved on the 5200 controller.

 

i.m.h.o., the 5200 controllers felt more confortable than the intellivision (gosh that thing felt to wide and thin), colecovision (also wide and that fat fire button was annoying), 2600 (blisters anyone?), 7800 (can't play star raiders with no # pad)

 

the joystick also was much more precise than the annoying discs from coleco and intellivision. i also still liked it better than the 7800 because of the analog feel.

 

looks? hands down the 5200 is best looking of the bunch. the 7800 prolines would be second.

 

potential? with the number pads, pause, dual option for space dungeon and robotron, analog control, 4 fire buttons, the 5200 has the edge.

 

in a nutshell, the whole complaint of the 5200 controllers is really overated. moreover, getting the options like the gold dots and new flex circuit make the 5200 controller so much better. games like pac man/frogger/etc should have had the keypad option to control the guy in digital fashion (using 2 for up, 4 left, 6 right, and 8 for down), which would have saved a lot of headaches.

 

look at the current ps2 controllers, the analog joystick is a 20 year updated version of the 5200. the 5200 had so many breakthroughs (pause button, analog controllers, 4 port, integrated voice, concealed storage, etc). it's to bad the 5200 was a stepchild (just like the next generation of atari systems) from the 2600. such a great system with a large # of great games.

 

imagine a a golf game with the trackball, or 4 player gauntlet, karate champ using the dual joysticks...there's just a lot of stuff atari could have done but didn't.

 

 

-ken

 

check out my 8bit articles:

 

http://www.ataritimes.com/article.php?showarticle=248

 

http://www.ataritimes.com/article.php?showarticle=416

[Paranoid]

Heh... If we ever meet, the first beer is on me.

 

Granted, you've just rehashed every 5200 controller argument that has even been had on this forum, and summarized the entire debate in a single post. But, you're both preaching to the choir, and witnessing to the unabashed heathens, here. But you've definitely found a place you can call home. Hopefully some of the 5200 bashers will come in and get this thread heated up, just to make you feel at home.

[phuzaxeman]

Heh... If we ever meet, the first beer is on me.

Hopefully some of the 5200 bashers will come in and get this thread heated up, just to make you feel at home.

 

anyone can bash. people that can make good points and defend their own reason are the ones that can truly debate in a forum.

[phuzaxeman]

Heh... If we ever meet, the first beer is on me.

Hopefully some of the 5200 bashers will come in and get this thread heated up, just to make you feel at home.

 

anyone can bash. people that can make good points and defend their own reason are the ones that can truly debate in a forum.

[Tempest]

I actually like the 5200 controllers for most games (although there are some where they just don't work well). The trick is to get a working pair in good condition, as most 5200 controllers found in the wild have one foot in the grave (they just weren't very robust). Once you've installed the Best Electronics gold plated replacement parts, you'll be amazed at how much more responsive the buttons are. I love my 5200 controller, I couldn't play Space Dungeon without it.

 

Tempest

[misspent_youth]

Total n00b question here, since I don't collect 5200 (but am considering starting), but has anyone tried to insert their own spring to make the controller self-centre? I mean, the colecovision sticks centre by means of a giant spring inside the case. Again, I've never seen what a 5200 stick looks like apart to know if it's feasible or not, but if there's one thing that classic gamers are it's masters of MacGyver-ness.

[Buyatari]

The controllers are horrible.

 

They break. They are not easy to fix. They work ok for a few games but for left right up and down games like pacman they are bad. really bad.

 

It wouldn't have been so bad if you could use 2600 controllers with the 5200 without a converter. Then the gamer could pick which one he would use and you wouldn't be stuck with it for all the games.

 

Since we are on a positive note. I will have to say I do like them better than the Intellivision controllers.

[CPUWIZ]

I will have to say I do like them better than the Intellivision controllers.

 

Almost anything is better than the gold-discs of pain.

[JB]

Total n00b question here, since I don't collect 5200 (but am considering starting), but has anyone tried to insert their own spring to make the controller self-centre? I mean, the colecovision sticks centre by means of a giant spring inside the case. Again, I've never seen what a 5200 stick looks like apart to know if it's feasible or not, but if there's one thing that classic gamers are it's masters of MacGyver-ness.

Hypothetically, I think there's room to rig a centering device. Don't know of anyone that's made an internal one, though I recall seeing some rubber bands wrapped around the OUTSIDE of the stick to make it center.

Gotta be careful, though. The terminals for the pots are exposed. Would be easy to short them with a spring, which would play havoc with your movement.

[phuzaxeman]

The controllers are horrible.

 

They break. They are not easy to fix. They work ok for a few games but for left right up and down games like pacman they are bad. really bad.

 

It wouldn't have been so bad if you could use 2600 controllers with the 5200 without a converter. Then the gamer could pick which one he would use and you wouldn't be stuck with it for all the games.

 

Since we are on a positive note. I will have to say I do like them better than the Intellivision controllers.

 

all controllers break. and the new upgrades make it easy to fix. work ok? they work great for me for most games. if atari programmed the number pad to use as arrows, games like pac man would work perfectly.

[Buyatari]

all controllers break. and the new upgrades make it easy to fix. work ok? they work great for me for most games. if atari programmed the number pad to use as arrows, games like pac man would work perfectly.

 

The 5200 controllers is the most fragile of all controllers. Every time I find a 5200 in the wild the controllers are shot and I own a used game store so I've had alot. I had a customer trade in one used 5200 and one brand new Atari 5200 with no controllers. I asked and it was his second system. He bought it just to get two working controllers after his first two bit the dust the second set didn't last long either.

 

The new upgrades you speak of didn't exist in the 80's and Atari didn't let you use the keypad. Most consumers bought a 5200 to play games like pacman not space dungeon or the others which most non-collectors have never heard of or have long forgotten. A game of pacman played on tiny keyboard wouldn't have been that much of an improvement anyway. We could upgrade the engine on a model T Ford and race it but thats doesn't make it a good race car.

 

I know you guys are the most loyal of all the Atari fans in the world but give it up. These controllers should never have been released they way they were released.

 

"If you modify them they aren't so bad on some games that most people never heard of" isn't good enough for Atari. Too bad Atari didn't include a little flyer letting buyers know that a do-it-yourself upgrade would make the controllers better if you just wait 20 years. Huge disapointment.

[joeybastard]

Total n00b question here, since I don't collect 5200 (but am considering starting), but has anyone tried to insert their own spring to make the controller self-centre? I mean, the colecovision sticks centre by means of a giant spring inside the case. Again, I've never seen what a 5200 stick looks like apart to know if it's feasible or not, but if there's one thing that classic gamers are it's masters of MacGyver-ness.

 

I have tried a conical spring in a stock 5200 stick. I got the spring from a 3rd party N64 controller. There isn't a whole of room in the 5200 stick for the spring and to add to the problem, the "plates" that move the pots constantly hang up on the spring. It "sort of" worked but not very well. I've been looking for other springs to try again but nothing has proven reliable.

[Lord Helmet]

While I don't hate the 5200 stick (it is what it is), the best controller alternative for the 5200 is still a Redemption adapter (whichever version you prefer) and the compatible stick of your choice.

[jbanes]

1) having the fire buttons be able to click (being made of hard plastic) rather than the sponge feel when pressed, so that way you would have better precision

The only reason they feel so spongey is because the buttons don't make very good contact after a bit of use. With a properly cleaned and/or rebuilt controller, the soft buttons feel extremely responsive.

 

3) overall reliabilty so the joysticks wouldn't break down (i.e., buttons going out) -i'm not an expert; how to do that is another question.

If you study the design a bit, I think you'll find the issue to be the flex curcuit design. They don't seem to have gotten the chemistry quite right, so the contacts are constantly gumming up with oxidization and carbon deposits. Thus why you can use a pencil eraser (lightly!) to temporarily fix the problem.

 

Had Atari used standard circuit boards rather than the untested flex circuits, we'd probably all be lauding the 5200 controller as the best joystick ever. Well, that and clipped the POTs down. I can't count how many times those stupid things pop out of place.

 

 

Total n00b question here, since I don't collect 5200 (but am considering starting), but has anyone tried to insert their own spring to make the controller self-centre?

If you're going to attach a set of springs, you'd probably want to do it on the outside of the slats. By counterbalancing the spring tension on either side of each slat, the joystick should automatically return to center when you're not pressing. Placing the springs on the outside would also keep them out of the way of the POTs. Unfortunately, there's not much room inside the controller, so you'd have some difficulty mounting the springs.

 

I will have to say I do like them better than the Intellivision controllers.

Almost anything is better than the gold-discs of pain.

Hey now, be nice. The Intellivision controllers may not have been the most incredible controller known to man, but the programmers *did* know how to put it to good use. The games were so good at correctly interpreting the desired movement, that I've almost never heard anyone complain that the controllers were preventing them from really getting into the game. The side buttons were certainly painful to use for long periods of time, but it didn't impact the usefulness of the controller.

 

In comparison, the 5200 controller was rarely used well by the games. In Frogger, for example, you actually had to press a button for the direction to take! Some games were oversensitive to the joystick, causing jitter when the stick was centered. Other games were undersensitive, causing problems moving unless the stick was pushed to its absolute extremes. It's really kind of sad, but the 5200 programmers just didn't seem to know what to do with the controllers. As a result, the "gold disks of pain" ended up being superior (gameplay-wise) to what should have one of the best sticks of its time.

[Brian R.]

So, in short, the 5200's controllers would have been great, ... if they worked.

 

Basically, the issues you say need addressed about the 5200 controllers were addressed, by the Wico controller.

 

I had a 5200 controller rebuilt, and I still find it terrible to use. Even though I own a Wico, I hate the fact that the playability of my 5200 collection is dependant on three little buttons on a notoreously unreliable controller, which even though rebuilt sometimes barely works.

Edited October 18, 2006 by Brian R.

[Paranoid]

Jbanes... See, I think Frogger is an elegent example of where the programmers DID take into consideration the quirks of the 5200 controller, and designed a work-around that does the job admirably on what would otherwise be a very frustrating game.

 

The 5200 controllers ARE better than the 7800 Proline, Intellivision, or the Colecovision stock controllers, and yet they get so much more abuse from the general public.

 

I've got probably 6 5200 sticks upstairs that work well, maybe 5 of them. That was out of a total of 8 or 9 sticks. Only ONE of them needed a replacement of the flex pad... and one of them is a Best Electronics Gold Dot refurb.

 

Now, I have a RSI PMP 5200 digital stick too, because there are some games that just play best with a digital stick. No harm in that. And the RSI stick *is* just a really nice stick, all around. But the 5200 sticks are certainly not the worst out there, and the design is gorgeous.

 

If you can't open up a stick and rub some contacts with a pencil eraser, collecting 30 year old machines probably isn't the right hobby for you, anyhow.

[Brian R.]

The simple fact of the matter is the 5200 controller is totally inappropriate for the games that were made for the system. The controller should have been designed to play the games, and not the other way around with games having to have their controls altered to fit the controller.

 

The 5200 controller looks good, but I'd rather have a controller that looks ugly and works well.

 

And when I've opened a 5200 controller, I've been unable to get it back together again. I don't think that means I should give up my system. I just know it's a damn good thing I got my hands on a Wico.

[Video]

5200 controller are pieces of crap. Yes, their a good Idea, in mind, but not in practice. All the cool features in them are very appreciated. But the part are cheap crap, and that's the biggest problem. Had Atari gone with a traditional circuit board, rather than the crap flex circuit, then that would have mde it about 900% better. But you gotta live with what youg ot.

 

Thank goodness we have upgradeable parts, but you have to know what your doing in order to install them. But it's worth the effort, as the controoler's a real joy to use when it works right.

[Paranoid]

I was afraid you were going to take those comments as directed at you specifically. They weren't.

 

BUT...

 

I think your first statement...

 

The simple fact of the matter is the 5200 controller is totally inappropriate for the games that were made for the system. The controller should have been designed to play the games, and not the other way around with games having to have their controls altered to fit the controller.

 

Is a matter of opinion. I personally think Super Breakout, a mediocre title on the 2600, rises above on the 5200, because of the controller. Here we have an example of the justification for the innovative design, in practice, and I think the justification is borne out by the game. Galaxian would be a further example, illustrating how the analog controller offers far more flexibility in a single package, and, by taking that into consideration when programming a game, the game has a value add, a new perspective that enhances the original game and makes for a more enjoyable and rewarding experience. Missile Command is another example. Simply put, the analog stick allows game mechanics with a joystick that you would generally require a trackball for, yet, you can still play a joystick oriented game with the same controller. This is subjective, I understand, but I think the 5200 stick GENERALLY strikes a good compromise. The titles where it FAILS, it is almost inevitably the result of an 8 bit port that failed to take the 5200 non-centering stick into consideration at ALL. Super Cobra would be my stock example of this. And, personally, I think we see it across all consoles. Games generally operate BEST on the platform which has the interface they were designed DIRECTLY for. When the two consoles share a very similar controller (say NES, SNES, and just about everything SINCE), things generally work well. When you pull something from the arcade that was meant to be played with a stick and put a d-pad on it, it generally sucks. Or a trackball, or whatever.... UNLESS you take into consideration the unique differences of the controller to which you are porting the title, and try to accomodate for that in some way or another. When you do that, a little goes a long way... and if you're CREATIVE, the new controller may enhance the game in some way that was not possible with the original controller.

 

But, some people are inflexible, as well. I'm NO fan of d-pads, and little can convince me otherwise. YET, I'd rather play SMB with a d-pad than with a NES Advantage. One controller seems intuitive for the game, the other feels awkward.

 

My point about opening the sticks is, this is often made out to be a very complex process. It isn't. It is easier than an oil change, for sure. It is probably as difficult as changing out a battery. You've got to know some basics... and patience helps... And, experience is important. Reassembling a 5200 stick without a boot is darn near impossible. You can do it (I have)... but it is frustrating. The fact is though, that as these machines get older, it is going to require a more skilled (or more wealthy) person to maintain and repair them. That is my concern with the Vectrex. I don't feel qualified at all to maintain a Vectrex going forward. If it develops problems, I'm screwed. At a certain point, this happens with all the classic consoles. The repairs are going to exceed the ability of all but the most adept at electronics repair and maintainence.

[Albert]

Had Atari used standard circuit boards rather than the untested flex circuits, we'd probably all be lauding the 5200 controller as the best joystick ever.

I nearly spit out my drink when reading that line! I'm in the camp that the 5200 controllers are a fairly poor design, both ergonomically and (obviously) physically. Even when working perfectly, they are a poor fit for many games on the 5200 and the trigger buttons are awkward and uncomfortable to use. I know that some of you are quite religious when it comes to these things and that's fine, but I've rarely encountered people who actually do like them, even when discounting their reliability.

 

..Al

[Buyatari]

 

An innovative design idea that doesn't get off the ground isn't considered a success.

[phuzaxeman]

i had a group of buddies back in the day that had the 5200. yeah we broke a lot of the joysticks (just like my 2600) but we all had no problem playing the 5200. still one of, if not, my favorite system of all time. since i grew up on the controllers, i find them very easy to play on.

[phuzaxeman]

 

 

... But it's worth the effort, as the controoler's a real joy to use when it works right.

 

yep, totally agree.

[Atari Dogs]

Is anyone working on the adapter to use Jaguar controller on the 5200? I see this mentioned ever once in a while.

[Lord Helmet]

My biggest problem with the 5200 stick (and the CV, 7800, and Intelly) is the side mounted fire buttons. They are absolutely THUMB BUSTING