5200 controllers suck

[Paranoid]

The side mounted fire buttons are obviously a design consideration, and not an ergonomic consideration.

 

Now... OF the side mounted buttons, the 5200 buttons are actually the best. (INTV, Colecovision, and 7800 Proline are the other ready examples). Although the mushy rubber buttons get a lot of flak, they're actually far easier to use in a side mounted orientation than hard plastic. I think if they WERE hard plastic, there would be just another reason for people to complain.

 

But they're not PERFECT. I think a thicker rubber with more recoil and more tactile response would have gone a long way to making people happier with the buttons. You can design a flex circuit with responsive rubber buttons. Many modern phones, cel phones, and other consumer electronics (including the Jakks TV games), use this technology with no consumer complaints. Of course, there have been 30 years gone by to fine tune the technology.

 

I know that some of you are quite religious when it comes to these things and that's fine, but I've rarely encountered people who actually do like them, even when discounting their reliability.

 

Have you been reading the forums here, Albert? There is a group of us, probably a dozen or so, who thinks the 5200 sticks are probably among the *best* of the classic era, and we've discussed the topic at length, here. I'm surprised JB hasn't weighed in... but I suppose it is all territory he has covered extensively here. I think of JB as the high priest of the church of the 5200 stick, though. He is far more eloquent in their defense than I am.

 

They certainly have their well known and documented faults. I also think we've determined that climate and region plays a big part in satisfaction/dissatisfaction in the 5200 stick. The more humid your environment, the faster they seem to "go bad" and the more work they require to keep operable. In so many ways they're superior to what perceded them (although the CX26 style sticks have their place, and their advantages, as well)... but in their own era, they reign supreme... and AFTER their era, comes the gamepad... which is clearly a controller for the *masses*... but so is a Ford Focus or a Honda Civic (compared to a Ferrari or Porsche, my favorite analogy).

 

The honest truth is regarding reliability... If you come across an old 2600 style stick in the wild, it may work, or it may be busted. If it is busted, it is almost invariably going to require *replacement* parts to correct. And the MAJORITY of old sticks, are in some way, busted.

 

A 5200 stick, in the wild, is almost guaranteed to *not* work. But the VAST majority of them, if you open them up and give them the LIGHTEST of cleaning, even those in the WORST visible shape, generally work pretty well. The 5200 sticks are REMARKABLY reliable, considering their vintage. They just are high maintainence. They require constant care. Which is different than BREAKING.

 

Yeah... it is a good stick, all around, if you learn how to keep it running.

[Albert]

Have you been reading the forums here, Albert? There is a group of us, probably a dozen or so, who thinks the 5200 sticks are probably among the *best* of the classic era, and we've discussed the topic at length, here. I'm surprised JB hasn't weighed in... but I suppose it is all territory he has covered extensively here. I think of JB as the high priest of the church of the 5200 stick, though. He is far more eloquent in their defense than I am.

Indeed, I have been reading the forums here. Yes, there are a few "5200 controller zealots" who will defend their position until they die. I usually try to avoid arguing about this, as I bet most people do (it has been beaten to death). There's a large number of 5200 fans, so you should consider yourselves among the few who really like the 5200 controller. For me, when they work, they get the job done, albeit poorly with many 5200 games. We've sold hundreds of Redemption 5200 adapters (mostly one to a customer), so that alone speaks volumes about what people think of the 5200 controllers.

 

..Al

[jbanes]

I nearly spit out my drink when reading that line!

Sorry, 'bout that. I hope you didn't hurt yourself?

 

I'm in the camp that the 5200 controllers are a fairly poor design, both ergonomically and (obviously) physically. Even when working perfectly, they are a poor fit for many games on the 5200 and the trigger buttons are awkward and uncomfortable to use.

I have to respectfully disagree. When the sticks are in peak operating condition (a pretty rare event, especially if your boot is history), they are a pleasure to use. They're easy to hold, highly functional, and the stick moves with very little force. The buttons don't bother me much either, as *nothing* from that period was economical in design. (Just try finding a comfortable way of holding the Coleco sticks!)

 

The games do make the stick seem a lot worse than it is, though. Despite Paranoid's opinion that it's a good thing, I can't stand the design of Frogger. There's just too much button mashing for such a simple game. Pacman, on the other hand, comes across brilliantly, and really shows how nice the stick feels in your hand. Missile Command is great as well. Unfortunately, most of the remainder of the library is ports from the 8-bit line. Which means that the control scheme tries to shoehorn the analog stick into their CX-40 intended designs.

[JB]

I'm surprised JB hasn't weighed in... but I suppose it is all territory he has covered extensively here.

Pretty much. Everything I'd say's been said already.

 

 

We've sold hundreds of Redemption 5200 adapters (mostly one to a customer), so that alone speaks volumes about what people think of the 5200 controllers.

How many of those people have actual 5200 controller experience, though?

I KNOW there's people here that've bought a Redemption first thing for their shiny new 5200 and never used the real controller.

That statistic alone isn't a very useful one for that reason.

 

Usage pattern would also be nice. How many are using them as their primary input device VS how many use a regular stick and drag the Redemption out just for Qix, Super Cobra, and PacMan.

 

 

 

 

While there's certainly people that've given it a fair shot and still dislike it, there's also a lot of people that hate the 5200 controller without ever touching one, or are just so focused on the failure rate that they can't even LOOK at anything else.

 

I readily admit they're flakey controllers, and I'm hesitant to recommend the 5200 to the masses because it's NOT "plug and play."

But once you get them working reliably, which isn't too hard, they're pretty nice devices IMO, and far better than, say, the Intellivision. But no one whines incessantly about the INTV controller and cites it as a reason to ignore the INTV totally.

The 5200 is unique in that the controller has become the system, and the games are secondary.

[Lord Helmet]

I use a 7800 version of the Redemption with a PMP RSI Stick or a modified NES pad on my 5200 almost always. The only exception is when I play a game like Star Wars TAG, since it requires analog control.

 

I'm convinced that my setup is the best option for 5200 owners...but that's just my opinion

 

It also alows me to play with one controller across several platforms (2600, 5200, 7800, and Colecovision)

Edited October 19, 2006 by Lord Helmet

[Brian R.]

I do own a 5200. Rebuilt or not, I think the stock controllers are lousy, and history had determined that rather conclusively.

 

I was hopeful when I got my rebuilt controller that I would be able to use it. But even when it's rebuilt, the stick is terribly imprecise, the fire buttons are very nonresponsive, and even the keypad on it barely works. And it was professionally rebuilt. And on top of all that, I think it is very uncomfortable to use.

 

I have a Wico and I'm extremely thankful for that. Without it, my 5200 would be unusable, and packed away in a box.

 

 

And to address this... most 2600 controllers I found in the wild did work. I've never found a single 5200 controller in the wild that worked. And they require more than a simple cleaning to get working - they require being rebuilt.

 

The 5200 could be the best system in the world, with the best games, but without a reliable, comfortable, functional controller to interface with, what good is the best games and the best system?

Edited October 19, 2006 by Brian R.

[JB]

I do own a 5200. Rebuilt or not, I think the stock controllers are lousy, and history had determined that rather conclusively.

 

I was hopeful when I got my rebuilt controller that I would be able to use it. But even when it's rebuilt, the stick is terribly imprecise, the fire buttons are very nonresponsive, and even the keypad on it barely works. And it was professionally rebuilt. And on top of all that, I think it is very uncomfortable to use.

That's odd. Mine's been amateurly hacked and it's incredibly responsive and precise.

 

And I love the 5200 stick when it works. I see room for improvement on most controllers, but this one's among my favorites.

 

And to address this... most 2600 controllers I found in the wild did work. I've never found a single 5200 controller in the wild that worked. And they require more than a simple cleaning to get working - they require being rebuilt.

Again, that's odd. I've had several restored to operation by simple cleaning.

 

I do admit that you're not likely to find one that works as-is. I've stated as much in this very thread.

 

 

The 5200 could be the best system in the world, with the best games, but without a reliable, comfortable, functional controller to interface with, what good is the best games and the best system?

I dunno... the 2600 had one of the least comfortable controllers ever made, and it's done fairly well. Also got remarkably dysfunctional as games moved past 1 button.

When you have to juggle 2 sticks to play, it's time to concede defeat and move on.

[+remowilliams]

Had Atari used standard circuit boards rather than the untested flex circuits, we'd probably all be lauding the 5200 controller as the best joystick ever.

I nearly spit out my drink when reading that line! I'm in the camp that the 5200 controllers are a fairly poor design, both ergonomically and (obviously) physically.

LOL - I can't believe this discussion is still going 'round. Okay maybe I can, a little bit

 

If the 5200 sticks had used circuit boards we'd have horribly unreliable, imprecise, uncomfortable, cranky, ill suited controllers that have circuit boards in them.

 

The 5200 stick was a good idea, and ahead of it's time - but that sure as hell doesn't make it a good controller.

 

I'd still love the 5200 if it weren't for the Redemption and my RSI stick, but it would probably be loved most of the time in its box on the huge shelf o' consoles.

Edited October 19, 2006 by remowilliams

[phuzaxeman]

if you can't play the 5200 sticks when they're functional, you didn't have this system when you were a kid...

 

i still remember having like a dozen kids for my b-day party when i was a kids to try to get the highest scores in pacman, galaxian, and super breakout and we all were good. not one complained about the joystick.

 

it was when the start button was so erroded in couldnt work anymore that we all were depressed as kids :-)

 

the 5200 wins over the 7800 and 2600 easily. an i owned both those systems when they came out, and still the 5200 stood out even though i had a big heart to my first video game system, the 2600...

 

put it this way, it wouldn't be the 5200 if you didn't play on the orignal joysticks.

[JB]

if you can't play the 5200 sticks when they're functional, you didn't have this system when you were a kid...

I didn't have one as a kid, and I'm the head controller fanboy.

Granted, most controllers are pretty good next to the 4a and Vectrex joysticks, but still...

 

 

For a while I had a half-working controller. Fire buttons were good, start wasn't.

 

I popped the button strip off and was using a flat-head screwdriver to short the traces to start games. It worked.

[CPUWIZ]

If the 5200 sticks had used circuit boards we'd have horribly unreliable, imprecise, uncomfortable, cranky, ill suited controllers that have circuit boards in them.

 

Like the Jaguar controller then?

[rayik]

I've had my 5200 since buying it new back in 1982. I now have a complete collection (all carts, boxes and manuals). I last used my 5200 yesterday. I'm a flag waving Atari fan.

 

With that background, my opinion is the controls stink.

 

They constantly need cleaning. The analog stick is really not the way to play digital type games. The side buttons while working are quite "mushy."

 

Basically, I use a sega genesis controller with a homemade interface for digital games and a wico analog stick for analog games.

Edited October 20, 2006 by rayik

[Henry Lee]

I've had my 5200 since buying it new back in 1982. I now have a complete collection (all carts, boxes and manuals). I last used my 5200 yesterday. I'm a flag waving Atari fan.

 

With that background, my opinion is the controls stink.

 

They constantly need cleaning. The analog stick is really not the way to play digital type games. The side buttons while working are quite "mushy."

 

Basically, I use a sega genesis controller with a homemade interface for digital games and a wico analog stick for analog games.

 

I am an owner of Atari 52 two noughts since 1982. The controllers, wonderfuly comfortable.

About the mushy buttons, I prefer them to hard plastic, checkout the improved Best Electronic fire buttons with new tactical response, I personaly think you can't get better than that.

 

If you play the Atari 5200 with another controller, you just don't get the Atari 5200.

[Video]

If the 5200 sticks had used circuit boards we'd have horribly unreliable, imprecise, uncomfortable, cranky, ill suited controllers that have circuit boards in them.

 

Like the Jaguar controller then?

 

WHAT?!!? You trying to start something? For real though, the Jag controller is exactly what I had in mind when I said it should have had a circuit board. Some delusional people say the Jag pad sucks, but the fact is, and they can't deny it, it IS reliable.

Edited October 20, 2006 by Video

[Paranoid]

If you play the Atari 5200 with another controller, you just don't get the Atari 5200.

 

 

Hear hear and huzzah!

 

 

Although most of the titles, I MOSTLY play with the RSI stick, these days... I still have a fondness for the 5200 controllers, as well.

[Brian R.]

I dunno... the 2600 had one of the least comfortable controllers ever made, and it's done fairly well. Also got remarkably dysfunctional as games moved past 1 button.

When you have to juggle 2 sticks to play, it's time to concede defeat and move on.

 

Calling the 2600 controller the "least comfortable" is a statement of opinion, not fact. I find it very comfortable and simple to hold and use. Far more comfortable than when I have to turn my left hand upside down to use a 5200 or even a 7800 controller.

 

And as far as I'm aware, nearly all 2600 games require one button, or none at all, and my 2600 controller still works very well with those games, so I can't see how they are "dysfunctional." Sure, you can't hook it up to a Sega Genesis and play something like Street Fighter that needs six buttons, but it was never meant for such a thing.

 

One stick, one button. It's a controller you can use without having to think about it. All you have to do is enjoy the game.

 

If you play the Atari 5200 with another controller, you just don't get the Atari 5200.

 

Well then excuse the hell out of me. I didn't realize the entire system was reduced to its controller.

 

Honestly, if I could get my hands on a Wico keypad, I'd take every 5200 controller I have and toss it in my dumpster.

 

BTW, I don't need you to tell me what I "get" or don't get. 'K?

Edited October 21, 2006 by Brian R.

[Buyatari]

You know it really doesn't matter that 1% of people who once owned an Atari 5200 actually prefer the joysticks. I know I know I'm being a little generous on the % here but .5% or 1% it doesn't matter. The majority hated them and a few tolerated them and thats the main point.

 

You can argue that those people SHOULD like them and state all these reasons but they don't. The 5200 controller or lack of a controller is the main reason the 5200 isn't as collectable as the Colecovision. Less people buy the system to play it and less people have fond memories and want to still play it.

 

In these modern ages we have thought about bringing back a few systems from the dead. The 2600 the 7800 even the NES, Intellivision and the Colecovision but no 5200. Why is that?

[phuzaxeman]

You know it really doesn't matter that 1% of people who once owned an Atari 5200 actually prefer the joysticks. I know I know I'm being a little generous on the % here but .5% or 1% it doesn't matter...

 

 

and what study did you get that 1% or less stat? i agree that controllers were problematic, but still the problem of the joysticks are overated in my eyes.

 

you could say the 5200 is the worst system of all time, but it doesn't change the fact the system has a lot of quality games for the time and there are lots of people that still own and enjoy this unique system. the fact of the matter too is that people still develop carts and accesories for the sytem, talk about it in forums, many websites and fansites, and buy the 5200 stuff on ebay, so it really doesn't matter that you may think it's a horrible system. moreover, in the classic game community the 5200 has many fans comparably.

 

i've got over 40 games on the intellivision, 25+ on my coleco, 15+ on the 7800, over 50 on my 2600, almost every game on the lynx, and multicart for my 5200, 20+ on the jag, and still i end up playing my 5200 more than any of those systems mentioned.

 

i could give a rats a$$ about the critics that complain about the 5200 controllers because it doesn't change my opinion about the 5200.

[Paranoid]

You know it really doesn't matter that 1% of people who once owned an Atari 5200 actually prefer the joysticks. I know I know I'm being a little generous on the % here but .5% or 1% it doesn't matter. The majority hated them and a few tolerated them and thats the main point.

 

You can argue that those people SHOULD like them and state all these reasons but they don't. The 5200 controller or lack of a controller is the main reason the 5200 isn't as collectable as the Colecovision. Less people buy the system to play it and less people have fond memories and want to still play it.

 

In these modern ages we have thought about bringing back a few systems from the dead. The 2600 the 7800 even the NES, Intellivision and the Colecovision but no 5200. Why is that?

 

The FB3 was intended to be an Atari 800/Atari 5200 version of the FB2, that would accept some kind of removable media, by all accounts. I'm still very hopeful it will eventually come to fruition, as we've seen several encouraging comments in this direction here on the forums. So you tell me... why is that... I don't see that your claim even *is*.

 

Calling the 2600 controller the "least comfortable" is a statement of opinion, not fact. I find it very comfortable and simple to hold and use. Far more comfortable than when I have to turn my left hand upside down to use a 5200 or even a 7800 controller.

 

And thus, it follows, calling the 5200 controller a piece of garbage is also a statement of opinion, not fact, and clearly, one that quite a few people very familiar with the 5200 controller disagree with you, about. So... there you go.

[Buyatari]

The FB3 was intended to be an Atari 800/Atari 5200 version of the FB2, that would accept some kind of removable media, by all accounts. I'm still very hopeful it will eventually come to fruition, as we've seen several encouraging comments in this direction here on the forums. So you tell me... why is that... I don't see that your claim even *is*.

 

I didn't know this. I would hazzard a guess and say that such an item wouldn't sell as well as the clones for the other systems did. I get very little interest err no interest in my store from people off the street on the Atari 5200. In all my years with 5 different store locations I have yet to sell 1 system and I'm not certain but I don't think I have sold any games for it either. This forum is a great place for lovers of Atari to gather and talk but its a horrible place to try to gauge the marketplace interest. Eveyone here is excited about everything Atari.

[Buyatari]

And thus, it follows, calling the 5200 controller a piece of garbage is also a statement of opinion, not fact, and clearly, one that quite a few people very familiar with the 5200 controller disagree with you, about. So... there you go.

 

Calling the 5200 controller junk is an opinion. Stating that most people who bought the system felt this way is not.

[Paranoid]

Calling the 5200 controller junk is an opinion. Stating that most people who bought the system felt this way is not.

 

Cite me the paper, study or survey that backs this second opinion, and I'll readily admit it is fact...

 

Or is this just an informal survey that you've done off the cuff, over the years, by personal observation?

 

While I'm certainly splitting hairs here, my point is, it is all pretty much personal opinion.

 

We could also argue about the validity of group opinion. Just because the majority thinks the controller is crap, doesn't mean that it is.

 

And I agree with you, the FB3 looked (looks) to be a more of a niche product catering directly to the more hardcore retrogamer. Although, I personally think the 7800 remains a more obscure console than the 5200. My wife has fond memories of their 5200 when she was a child... but outside of Atari circles, no one remembers the 7800.

[JB]

Calling the 2600 controller the "least comfortable" is a statement of opinion, not fact. I find it very comfortable and simple to hold and use. Far more comfortable than when I have to turn my left hand upside down to use a 5200 or even a 7800 controller.

Hold them sideways if moving your palm out bothers you.

 

 

And as far as I'm aware, nearly all 2600 games require one button, or none at all, and my 2600 controller still works very well with those games, so I can't see how they are "dysfunctional." Sure, you can't hook it up to a Sega Genesis and play something like Street Fighter that needs six buttons, but it was never meant for such a thing.

I was thinking of things like Raiders of the Lost Ark and Defender.

There's also stuff like Asteroids, which are playable but not exactly pretty.

[phuzaxeman]

And thus, it follows, calling the 5200 controller a piece of garbage is also a statement of opinion, not fact, and clearly, one that quite a few people very familiar with the 5200 controller disagree with you, about. So... there you go.

 

Calling the 5200 controller junk is an opinion. Stating that most people who bought the system felt this way is not.

 

most people? how much? can you prove that? unless you have objective evidence, then it's still an opinion. if you asked 7 of my friends back in the day (that had 5200's) if the controllers were "junk," you'd get 7 answers of the controllers aren't junk.

 

hence, saying the controllers are difficult to use and have had a reliabilty issues and saying they are garbage are two completely differnent things.

[Tempest]

Guess I'm in the minority, I like my 5200 controllers. I'll agree though that they're not very sturdy, although I disagree that they're hard to repair (you just need to know how to).

 

Now if you want a BAD controller, take a look at the Colecovision controllers. Who on earth though a stubby little mushroom for a joystick was a good idea? The 7800 and Colecovision are the only two controllers I've ever used that have actually caused me pain after 10 min.

 

Tempest