PC disk formatting woes

[jedinovice]

I'm having great fun with transfering data from my ST to PC and vice versa.

 

OK, I know it's because I'm running an ancient ST with TOS 1.0. :-)

However, there must be a utility somewhere to sort this.

 

I have half a dozen PC format programs. They kind of work but not quite. What I am finding is that if I format a PC disk on the ST, while the disk is recognisable to DOS/Windows when I save data to the disk, wait for it, files wring on the St are readable on the ST but the disk is regarded as blank on the PC and files written to the disk by the PC are not picked up by the ST!

 

Wow!!! Two seperate directories!!!

I *can* get data transferred but it's a bit hit and miss - format a disk, re-write the book block, click your heels and do the magic pixie dance and the disk become readable both ways - for a while.

 

I'm slowly getting the ST tamed and it's time I got this useable. Is there a RELIABLE utility to allow the formatting, writing and reading of PC disks? I'm putting the ST to serious use and need this. I'm also getting sick of downloading PC format program after PC format program only to get the same problems. I need a pointer to a REAL solution.

 

Many thanks. You guys have been great so far!

[Rybags]

What about Gemulator Explorer from http://www.emulators.com/download.htm

[carmel_andrews]

if your'e trying to convert anything from win98 or newer..forget it, ms apparently changed the format (FAT32 i recall)

 

if mem. serves me correctly, tos will only work with ms dos formatted disks (other then the atari st compatible format)

[jedinovice]

Win32 only appplies to hard disk, not to floppies. Windows 98+ still formats floppies the same old FAT way.

 

The Gemulator I will try but I'd rather have an ST side solution if possible.

[Rybags]

If it's only simple file transfers, then maybe just a null-modem cable and appropriate software will do.

[jens]

Try to get FastCopyPro onto the ST.

It will format floppies pc compatible.

 

Else use PaCifiST (ST emulator) under plain DOS or Win 9x to directly access the pc's floppy drive.

[dinosaur]

Try to get FastCopyPro onto the ST.

It will format floppies pc compatible.

 

Else use PaCifiST (ST emulator) under plain DOS or Win 9x to directly access the pc's floppy drive.

 

Easiest of all,use Double Click Software's DC Formatter!

[jedinovice]

Try to get FastCopyPro onto the ST.

It will format floppies pc compatible.

 

Else use PaCifiST (ST emulator) under plain DOS or Win 9x to directly access the pc's floppy drive.

 

Easiest of all,use Double Click Software's DC Formatter!

 

Sound great. Er, were do I get it? Can't see anything online immediately.

[dinosaur]

Try to get FastCopyPro onto the ST.

It will format floppies pc compatible.

 

Else use PaCifiST (ST emulator) under plain DOS or Win 9x to directly access the pc's floppy drive.

 

Easiest of all,use Double Click Software's DC Formatter!

 

Sound great. Er, were do I get it? Can't see anything online immediately.

 

Until I can find the DC Formatter disk,try this:

 

Flofor.zip

[jedinovice]

I'll give that util a try. But fool that I am I AM using CDFORMATTER!!! It's with that program I have these troubles.

 

Weird.

 

It's as if TOS 1.0 has more disk woes than (say) 1.2 or 1.4.

[ijor]

For simple file transfer, the easiest way is probably just formatting the disk in the PC, and not in the ST. If you are using Win XP, then the following command line will format the disk in a compatible ST format:

 

format a: /T:80 /N:9

 

Then you should be able to transfer files in either direction without trouble. If you are still having troubles, then it is possible that one of your drives is out of alignment.

 

For whole disk transfers, you can use MakeDisk under DOS, or flopimg under modern Windows.

 

I assume you are using DD and not HD disks, are you?

[jedinovice]

For simple file transfer, the easiest way is probably just formatting the disk in the PC, and not in the ST. If you are using Win XP, then the following command line will format the disk in a compatible ST format:

 

format a: /T:80 /N:9

 

Then you should be able to transfer files in either direction without trouble. If you are still having troubles, then it is possible that one of your drives is out of alignment.

 

For whole disk transfers, you can use MakeDisk under DOS, or flopimg under modern Windows.

 

I assume you are using DD and not HD disks, are you?

 

OK, here's the data:

 

I have two disk drives - one a bona fide SF314 and the other a 3rd party disk drive, couldn;t tell yu the make but it's slimline.

 

I have formatted the disks on PC disk drive - I just like the ST to have the option. It *can* do it but it's hit and miss. As I say, it seems to put the directory in the wrong place.

 

I am definately using DD disk and not HD disks, indeed, I bought 100 DD disks and was given 50 more by an ex-ST user.

 

I get the same problems on both disks - though I'll doubt check. I can read all ST disks including 'oddly' formatted ones.

[ijor]

I have formatted the disks on PC disk drive - I just like the ST to have the option. It *can* do it but it's hit and miss. As I say, it seems to put the directory in the wrong place.

 

I'm not sure I understand 100%.

 

It does work fine when you format the disk on the PC (and not on the ST)?

 

And the problem is that you'll like to format the disk in the ST? Well, if so, it is possible.

But you must use 9 sectors per track (720k), and not 10 sectors per track (800k). And it must be formatted as double sided, not single sided.

 

Reading files from single sided disks, and/or with 10 sectors per track is not possible with DOS or Windows. You can still, if you want, access the whole disk using some tools as Floimg or MakeDisk. But you can't directly access the files from DOS.

 

You also must use the correct format (a bit long to explain the details). So you must use a third party formatter that formats the disk in a way that is compatible with the PC.

 

I get the same problems on both disks - though I'll doubt check. I can read all ST disks including 'oddly' formatted ones.

 

I see, then it means that is probably not a drive mis-alignment issue.

[tjlazer]

For writing disk images I recommend Floppy Image if you have XP! Works great. Also formatting a 720k disk in XP seems to work fine with TOS 1.0. But you should upgrade to TOS 1.04 as it is faster and fixes a lot of bugs. I just upgraded my old 1040ST to 1.04 and it is a joy to use now...

[Gunstar]

I've spent a long time finding what works best, with hit&miss PC&ST formatting. I tried Fast Copy 3 and Pro, with more success than formatting a disk at 720k on the PC, but not 100%. Then I figured out it works with much greater success (now I still use Windows 98, mind you), if before I start transfering disks between the ST and PC, if I reboot my PC, into the system start-up menu (usually holding f2 or f6 or something when you turn the PC on) and put the 3.5" floppy drive into 720k double density mode from there, then continue booting Windows. Formatting in 720k by choosing it through Windows, while the drive is set in the system menu at 1.44MB, is very flakey, to get the ST to read properly and vice versa.

 

Then I found this little ramdisk accessory for GEM that also has a formatting option in it for PS/2 compatible disks. It always works now unless the file itself is corrupt or if the floppy disk is really bad. Not only that, but you can format those weird hacker menu disks sizes too, like 82 tracks, 10 sectors a track, etc. So this formatter can be used in conjunction with WFDCopy in windows for putting those hacker menu disks (like D-bug and Automation, etc.) back onto real ST floppies that the ST will load. The version of WFDCopy I have has a format option, but it does not work. It writes .ST images great though (.MSA images need to be converted to .ST images first, with MSA2ST.prg for windows). As a matter of fact, Mdisk.acc in the zip attachment below was copied onto a disk I formatted with Mdisk.acc on my ST just now, put it in my PC, and added it to the other apps here in the zip file.

 

The only trick here is the possible catch-22 of getting the atttached Mdisk.acc onto an ST to properly format PS/2 disks that the ST&PC can both read. Mdisk.acc, WFDCopy and MSA2ST are all on the zip file below. WFD opens into it's own window. MSA2ST works by simply dragging and dropping the .MSA images onto the MSA2ST program icon and it will convert and write an .ST image version to the same directory.

Mdisk.zip

wfdcopy.txt

Edited January 3, 2007 by Gunstar

[jedinovice]

I've spent a long time finding what works best, with hit&miss PC&ST formatting. I tried Fast Copy 3 and Pro, with more success than formatting a disk at 720k on the PC, but not 100%. Then I figured out it works with much greater success (now I still use Windows 98, mind you), if before I start transfering disks between the ST and PC, if I reboot my PC, into the system start-up menu (usually holding f2 or f6 or something when you turn the PC on) and put the 3.5" floppy drive into 720k double density mode from there, then continue booting Windows. Formatting in 720k by choosing it through Windows, while the drive is set in the system menu at 1.44MB, is very flakey, to get the ST to read properly and vice versa.

 

Then I found this little ramdisk accessory for GEM that also has a formatting option in it for PS/2 compatible disks. It always works now unless the file itself is corrupt or if the floppy disk is really bad. Not only that, but you can format those weird hacker menu disks sizes too, like 82 tracks, 10 sectors a track, etc. So this formatter can be used in conjunction with WFDCopy in windows for putting those hacker menu disks (like D-bug and Automation, etc.) back onto real ST floppies that the ST will load. The version of WFDCopy I have has a format option, but it does not work. It writes .ST images great though (.MSA images need to be converted to .ST images first, with MSA2ST.prg for windows). As a matter of fact, Mdisk.acc in the zip attachment below was copied onto a disk I formatted with Mdisk.acc on my ST just now, put it in my PC, and added it to the other apps here in the zip file.

 

The only trick here is the possible catch-22 of getting the atttached Mdisk.acc onto an ST to properly format PS/2 disks that the ST&PC can both read. Mdisk.acc, WFDCopy and MSA2ST are all on the zip file below. WFD opens into it's own window. MSA2ST works by simply dragging and dropping the .MSA images onto the MSA2ST program icon and it will convert and write an .ST image version to the same directory.

 

Many thanks. I've had to put the ST into storage now fo rthe monet as I am very busy. I'll look at this when I get realistic chance.

[ppera]

...WFDCopy and MSA2ST are all on the zip file below. WFD opens into it's own window.

 

If it is possible, please don't promote WFDcopy. It has serious flaws, and even if it served you well, it means not that will work good for others. Why? Reason is that it relies on Windows floppy drivers, and that drivers are changed a lot in last versions. Culprit is MS in bigger part, but Wfdcopy has his own flaws - as bad work with floppies with bad sectors. Btw. it's author discontinued it, and removed from Sourceforge.

 

I recently tested Windows 95 on one 200 MHz machine and saw very interesting things in relation with Atari floppies:

it worked well even with floppy formatted with TOS 1.0 and capacity of 800KB ! Things gradually gone worse considering Atari ST floppies with every new version of Windows, so we have situation that in Windows XP is not possible to read whole 800K floppy without special driver.

 

More about it here: http://www.ppest.org/atari/floimgd.php & http://www.ppest.org/atari/FloppyMistery.php