thomasholzer Posted January 23, 2007 Share Posted January 23, 2007 (edited) Like in the olden days: (My console got more bits than yours) Computers: ST/Amiga 16 bit (twice as powerful as your 8 bit computer...etc) Genesis 16 bit (even printed on console) Jaguar 64 bit (printed on console) Amiga CD32 (adverts: first 32 bit console) PSX, 3DO (32 bit) now these -bit buzz words got thrown around in abundance, last being the Dreamcast (128 bit). Nowadays with 360, PS3, Wii.....nothing, what's going on ? Edited January 23, 2007 by thomasholzer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ManShowBoy Posted January 23, 2007 Share Posted January 23, 2007 Good question. What is the bit of a PS3 and 360? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jesusc Posted January 23, 2007 Share Posted January 23, 2007 yes. I blame Neo Geo (24 bit?), Jaguar (64bit?- i know, just kidding), and Dreamcast (pretty sure it was only 64 bit). But it really ended with Xbox, which I believe is built around a 32 bit processor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thomasholzer Posted January 24, 2007 Author Share Posted January 24, 2007 (edited) >>>>>jesusc said: Jaguar (64bit?- i know, just kidding)<<<<< I know, but John Mathieson (designer of Jaguar) says: Jaguar has a 64-bit memory interface to achieve 100 Mbytes/second. Object processor = 64 bit, Blitter = 64 bit. Jaguar has the data shifting power of a 64 bit system, so it can be considered a 64 bit console. How about the SNES argument: The SNES is a cut down 16 bit processor with an 8-bit bus, is it really an 8-bit machine? (The Ricoh 5A22 is the microprocessor CPU produced by Ricoh for the Super Nintendo Entertainment System (SNES) video game console. The 5A22 is based around the 16-bit CMD/GTE 65c816, itself a version of the WDC 65C816 (used in the Apple IIGS personal computer)). All of the above mentioned processors are based on the MOS Technology 6502 (8 bit) family of processors. Amiga and ST for example. Think about it, Motorola 68000's has 32-bit internals and a 16-bit external bus, the Amiga and ST are therefore 32 bit computers with a 16 bit bus.... yet they were classed as 16 bit, hence SNES must be 8 bit. You decide. Edited January 24, 2007 by thomasholzer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+LS650 Posted January 24, 2007 Share Posted January 24, 2007 Who really cares? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shannon Posted January 24, 2007 Share Posted January 24, 2007 It's all about polygons these days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supercat Posted January 24, 2007 Share Posted January 24, 2007 Amiga and ST for example. Think about it, Motorola 68000's has 32-bit internals and a 16-bit external bus, the Amiga and ST are therefore 32 bit computers with a 16 bit bus.... yet they were classed as 16 bit, hence SNES must be 8 bit. The Z80 has some 16-bit registers, but has an 8-bit ALU. An instruction "ADD HL,DE" thus takes longer than "ADD A,B" even though both instructions are a single byte. Thus, the Z80 should be regarded as an 8-bit processor. The 8088 has a 16-bit ALU. An instruction like "ADD AX,BX" takes the same amount of time as "ADD AL,BL" even though the former operates on a 16-bit quantity and the latter on an 8-bit quantity. Thus, the 8088 is a 16-bit CPU. Although the 68000 has 32-bit registers, its ALU is only 16 bits. Thus, "add.l r1,r2" will take longer than "add.w r1,r2" even though both instructions are a single word. Thus, the 68000 would properly be called a 16-bit CPU, even though it's directly code compatible with the 32-bit members of the family. I don't know enough about the 65C816 and other such devices to know where they fit into this scheme. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starscream Posted January 24, 2007 Share Posted January 24, 2007 (edited) Yes, using "bits" to describe systems worth/ability/power was replaced by another buzzterm years back. "Innovation". The use, and consequently, the over-use of the term innovation started during the N64's lifetime. Facing fierce competition from Sony, Nintendo decided to market "Innovation" to mask the shortcomings on the N64. Having marginal success with the marketing, Innovation was also used to describe their next system, the Gamecube. Before it's release, promises of Innovative games, and game experiences were all the news about the GC. Media picked up on it and spread the use of the term to a new high. Throughout the GC's lifespan, any misstep was again covered with promises of innovation. This is when the Nintendo legions really started to take stock in the term. To add more fuel to the fire, the DS was marketed using the same strategy. What happened next was the constant talk of Innovation, in any discussion on video games (hell, ANYTHING), and as a counter-argument to anything. And it really has snowballed lately. But to be fair, at times, Nintendo actually did live up to the term. Maybe a few other companies did too. But I'd like to kill them for starting this crap. And the internet has caused this plague to continually become more and more annoying day by day. It's hard to imagine anything being described where that term isn't used....... Examples..... Person 1:"I love playing games in hi def" Person 2: "Not having hi def is innovative" person 1: "I like that online structure. It's easy, fun, and cheap. Very awesome." person 2; "You act like they innovated online gaming. I was doing that, for free, on my pc ages ago" person 1: "We figured it would be more innovative to NOT have a rumble feature because there is no room with the tilt sensing stuff" person 2 and person 3: " " person 1: "I like the power of this thing. The enemies in that one game were really difficult. Like they could counter any move I did. My buddy jumped in seemlessly online and helped me out. After the battle we just stood and looked around. It looked like I was there. That game is beautiful and innovative" person 2: "Having less power is really innovative. I mean, everyones always trying to make things better so it's nice to see someone who takes the initiative to really keep things as they are. Good enough is innovative. So all the other games just look pretty, and are involving, and whoopdy do, online shmonline, just 14 year old white boys trying to be black." person 1: "I was playing online with like 6 friends and we had a great time. It really adds to the game overall. Very innovative" person 1: "I can simulate cooking!!!. Talk about innovative!." person 1: "I tried that system with that new control scheme thingy. It was cool but the game really didn't control well. My moves weren't really translated well. Not bad though. Kinda innovative" person 2: "It controlled like that because it's innovative. R-tard" person 1: "Shuffle is innovative!" (shoutout to my man JB) person 1: "Did you see that innovative paint job on that car?!" person 1 "We added an innovative button in the center of the controller, to access the dash at any time among other things" person 2: "I innovated that on my modded one. 4 years ago." person 1: "I took the most innovative dump before. It stunk before it came out!" Sorry about that but the word is so ineffective and overused that I get carried away sometimes when I hear it. On topic, no bits don't matter any more. Edited January 24, 2007 by Starscream Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CPUWIZ Posted January 24, 2007 Share Posted January 24, 2007 On topic, no bits don't matter any more. Depends on what you do for a living. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Monkey Posted January 24, 2007 Share Posted January 24, 2007 Screw bittage... What we need is a word for people who cannot come to grips with the fact that fanboys exist for products they don't like and then take it upon themselves to become a sort of 'fanboy' hunter. I suggest "Starscream". ... and to remain on topic - I would recommend that a unit of measure be developed to calibrate the number of fanboys a console has advocating for it on a select group of internet websites. Scoring as such: - 1 fanboy posting how much he loves his Nintendo "toy"= equals one unit of power for Nintendo. - 1 "Starscream" (ie a fanboy of another system trying to convince everyone else how rational and correct he is) = posting detrimental "Nintendon'ts" equals one unit of power deducted from Nintendo and one unit added to the Starscream's toy of choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starscream Posted January 24, 2007 Share Posted January 24, 2007 Talk about innovative! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Monkey Posted January 24, 2007 Share Posted January 24, 2007 Talk about innovative! Hey! Save those insults for the Big N! Edited: You are referring to me with the same terminology as Nintendo fanboys use. Hence, I get it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starscream Posted January 24, 2007 Share Posted January 24, 2007 Insults? Hmmm, guess everything goes over your head. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Monkey Posted January 24, 2007 Share Posted January 24, 2007 Insults? Hmmm, guess everything goes over your head. Nope... nothing does - I have an "intended meaning catcher" - quite innovative if I must say so. See above post... (edited) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CPUWIZ Posted January 24, 2007 Share Posted January 24, 2007 I would like to start a petition, to have Lost Monkey's avatar removed, it's offensive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starscream Posted January 24, 2007 Share Posted January 24, 2007 (edited) Insults? Hmmm, guess everything goes over your head. Nope... nothing does - I have an "intended meaning catcher" - quite innovative if I must say so. See above post... (edited) As usual, you completely miss the mark. Edited January 24, 2007 by Starscream Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Monkey Posted January 24, 2007 Share Posted January 24, 2007 I would like to start a petition, to have Lost Monkey's avatar removed, it's offensive. I actually had to look at it to remember what it was... How would this interaction have scored in the new power rankings? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CPUWIZ Posted January 24, 2007 Share Posted January 24, 2007 How would this interaction have scored in the new power rankings? 1 fanboy posting how much he loves his Nintendo "toy"= equals one unit of power for Nintendo. Come on now, it's a naked N64, how much more hardcore can you possibly get? On another completely unrelated note: "Gorf for the Jaguar is Hackfleisch!". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Breakpack Posted January 24, 2007 Share Posted January 24, 2007 I would like to start a petition, to have Lost Monkey's avatar removed, it's offensive. I actually had to look at it to remember what it was... How would this interaction have scored in the new power rankings? How bout finishing the Genesis/32x hybrid?Talk about innovative Please don't go! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CPUWIZ Posted January 24, 2007 Share Posted January 24, 2007 How bout finishing the Genesis/32x hybrid?Talk about innovative Now you have done it, I just banned Kepone, just for that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Breakpack Posted January 24, 2007 Share Posted January 24, 2007 How bout finishing the Genesis/32x hybrid?Talk about innovative Now you have done it, I just banned Kepone, just for that. Welcome back,Lost Monkey! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shannon Posted January 24, 2007 Share Posted January 24, 2007 blah... blah... blah... I'm sorry, we're you saying something trollboy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goatdan Posted January 24, 2007 Share Posted January 24, 2007 Heh, I always come across these posts for some reason. The whole "bit" thing was / is really something that I have long felt was stupid. "Bits" matter very little in the grand scheme of things. The Intellivision was 16 bit, but it can't hold a candle to the graphics of the SNES. The Jaguar was 64 bit, but it sucks compared to the graphics on the N64 (at least the 3D stuff). The Dreamcast was 128 bit, but the 32 bit Xbox sure looked better than it. The bit argument was made by a bunch of companies who wanted to set themselves apart by using a stat which they could brag was better than the competition. This all came crashing down with the Jaguar, which is why many believe it wasn't a 64-bit machine -- because the jump from 16 to 64 should've made the Jaguar four times as powerful as the SNES, and games like Donkey Kong Country were clearly equal on a power footing to the 2D Jaguar offerings, and games like Star Fox were nearly equal to things like Cybernaut for the Jaguar. Then, when Sony and Sega brought out the Playstation and Saturn, Atari's continual trotting out the 64 bit fact when the other systems were so obviously better graphically just made people believe that they couldn't believe Atari. Well, the Jaguar was 64 bit by definition. But it doesn't matter -- the architecture was made to be a 2D machine that would have been a step up from the systems of the day, along with some new 3D technology to make games like the Virtua series that Sega had been releasing in the arcades work well on the Jag. The problem was that the market wanted 3D games, and they wanted texture mapping which the Jaguar wasn't meant to handle. Had the Jaguar had more RAM or a better 3D graphics processor, perhaps it would've done better and people would've believed it was 64-bit. But instead, the other systems took that crown and ran with it. Once the newest systems launched, the programmers wanted more graphical power, not more bits. So, gaming has stopped pushing the bit thing as it simply doesn't matter any more... and it basically never really did before either, at least, it only mattered in so far as what those higher bit chips were combined with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shannon Posted January 24, 2007 Share Posted January 24, 2007 Waits for the Jaguar fanboys to come tromping thru. Oh uh... Yeah I'm kinda at the point where I use bits to refer to different "generations" of machines (not necessarily power). For example 8-bit usually equals 2600, colecovision, intellivision (yeah I know ), Odyssey 2, NES, SMS, GameGear. 16-bit. SNES (yeah I know ), Genesis, TG16, Lynx, Atari St, Amiga But really after that things started getting foggier with the 32X add-on, the 3D0, Jaguar, Saturn. Since they combined so many different kinds. PS1 to me since it had such a long run by itself always seemed seperate. But from this point on things were pretty much 3D. Dreamcast and N64 bumped it up a bit but had frame rate issues among other things. PS2 , Gamecube, Xbox. Frame rates started improving alot more (most noteably on the Xbox). But over time programmers got good enough where it was not as big an issue. The verdict is still out on the current gen systems Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+LS650 Posted January 24, 2007 Share Posted January 24, 2007 I have to say I haven't really heard the word 'innovative' being used THAT much. The whole 'bits' argument seemed stupid then, and seems even more so now in retrospect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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