Should Atari 2600 bootleg games have a rarity?

[Alex]

The question has recently come up about whether or not bootleg games (all those Taiwanese games for example) should be assigned a rarity or not. Please tell us your thoughts in the poll and feel free to add comments to this thread.

[King Asmo]

Absolutely they should. The rarity indicates how difficult they are to find in the wild. Since these games are found in the wild, it seems kind of odd that they wouldn't have a rarity.

 

Next question: Should European and Brazillian games have a rarity?

 

KA

[Fretwobbler]

Next question:  Should European and Brazillian games have a rarity?

 

KA

 

In aid of world peace, i'll pretend I never read that

 

Adam

[King Asmo]

My comment was referring to the huge gaps of information on this site about PAL carts, and not about the English or the Brazilians..

 

even if they are a bunch of football watching troglodytes.

 

KA

 

[.. time to go watch some baseball]

[Cassidy Nolen]

OOPPS,

 

I am the dork who did not read the details and said no. Sorry.

 

I thought you meant the recent homebrews. If it was released back in the day, so to speak, yes, it deserves a rarity rating. Some of the neatest labels and carts I have are some of those wierd ones. They are as much a part of digial history as the others. They are the reason Nintendo had a security feature, and every system from then on.

 

Cassidy

[Lost Monkey]

Absolutely they should.  The rarity indicates how difficult they are to find in the wild.  Since these games are found in the wild, it seems kind of odd that they wouldn't have a rarity.

 

KA

 

 

As a "man-in-the-street" living in Canada, I think the rarity of Zeller's carts should be a little closer to "10".

 

BTW: All we've eaten mate for the last four bleeding weeks is Zeller's cart soup, roast Zeller's cart, steamed Zeller's cart, braised Zeller's cart in Zeller's cart sauce, Zeller's cart in the basket with sauteed Zeller's cart, Zeller's cart meringue pie, Zeller's cart sorbet.... we sit on Zeller's carts, we sleep in Zeller's carts, we feed the cat on Zeller's carts, we burn Zeller's carts, we even wear the bloody things!

[bloatedmonkey]

I'll second that. I know plenty about most NTSC games, but when someone from Germany wants to trade with me, I have no idea which ones are common and which aren't. You may ask why collect them at all when they usually have US counterparts, But how could you not own titles like "Stoppe die Gangster" or "Super-Cowboy beim Rodeo"?

[rolenta]

OOPPS,

 

I am the dork who did not read the details and said no.  Sorry.  

 

I thought you meant the recent homebrews.  If it was released back in the day, so to speak, yes, it deserves a rarity rating.  Some of the neatest labels and carts I have are some of those wierd ones.  They are as much a part of digial history as the others.  They are the reason Nintendo had a security feature, and every system from then on.  

 

Cassidy

 

I voted 'no' also before I read the thread. All old games should have a rarity!

[Alex]

Okay, I tried to make the question a little more clear. Also, Leonard and Cassidy, I removed your votes so you should be able to vote again if you want. If anyone else was confused either way, let me know and I'll clear you from the voting record so you can vote again.

 

I hope the question is clear now.

[DuckandCover]

You know, when I first started collecting, I ran across a copy of Super Ferrari in the box and bought it, thinking I was getting a rare, unique game, not a renamed version of Enduro. Fortunately, I didn't pay much for it. Still, ya just gotta love the description of the game from the box:

 

Now you are a talented racing-cars driver. You will be required to pass lots of cars each day. Through suburbs, snow, fog, desert, and prairie, sunrise to sunset--as fast as you can, as long as you can. Pay attention to the lighting and scenery. It represents the time of day, letting you know how much time is remaining. You will be less tactful to control your steering in snowy road, and have less time to react the coming cars in the fog-shrouded road.

 

One game, one player

[krisjohn]

Pirate carts are a valid part of video game history. They have a rarity and it should be made part of any comprehensive classic gaming database.

 

It's only the C64, Amiga, etc software cracks that let people copy their own games that do not have a rarity. They too should be documented in relivant databases, but it's impossible to know how many copies there are at any given time.

 

Anything with a definable physical component, be it a cart, or a label, or whatever will have a particular rarity. Even when modern copies are attempted, they will never truely match the original production run.

[JCroniger]

I'd love to see a rarity on the German/Australian/GB carts. I guess a lot of it is perspective. Any foreign cart in the wild is probably a 9 or a 10. You never see them. On the other hand, the cart might be quite common in it's native country.

[Smitty]

Yes,

 

I believe they should have a rarity list.

 

Major countries includes:

 

Australia

Europe

Brazil

 

We should get a very large group of foreign

collectors together and hack it out.

 

P.S. I'm game.

 

Smitty

[Ze_ro]

I don't see why they shouldn't have a rarity... although assigning a rarity to modern bootlegs, like those from Hozer would be a bad idea.

 

--Zero

[Fretwobbler]

Any foreign cart in the wild is probably a 9 or a 10.  You never see them.

 

Ive got a stack of UK PAL Pheonix's, Centipedes and Combats taller than your house if you want to pay rarity 9 or 10 prices for them

 

Adam

[Big Player]

I voted and now I'm confused. Does bootleg mean the same as hack? If so, how can a game be a bootleg and unique? Or is a bootleg just a stolen game, packaged under a different name?

[Fretwobbler]

I voted and now I'm confused.  Does bootleg mean the same as hack?  If so, how can a game be a bootleg and unique? Or is a bootleg just a stolen game, packaged under a different name?

 

I think it refers to games like this -

 

http://www.atariage.com/software_page.html...areLabelID=2028

 

..that were officially released by someone and then ripped off by a dodgy Taiwan company.

 

Do a search on Unknown Mfg in the 2600 section.

[somePUNK]

yep they should they should come all games should i know with the recent begal brothers scandel i guess you would call it it was brought up the rareity can infuence poeple but come on give them one please

[Turnspike]

By all menas YES! I have been collecting "Copper Blacks" for a while and have been confused to their value. I would say they have good value because everytime I post about having them, someone contacts me about buying some from me, but again the rarity confuses me.

[Room 34]

I will chime in, since I'm in the minority. I said "no" they should not have a rarity, but I wish there had been a partial "no" answer the way there's a partial "yes" answer. I think they should be classified distinctly, and maybe have their own rarity scale, but should be clearly denoted as "bootleg" and apart from the regular rarities.

 

The whole issue with the recent "faked" Beagle Brothers Cartridge Club cart on eBay is at the heart of this. I guess I would say, bootlegs that are fairly well-known and identifiable enough as to be distinct, as is the case with the Zeller's carts, should have rarity ratings, whereas things that are more questionable, like the Beagle Brothers Cartridge Club games, should not.

 

I don't know. Now I'm not sure what to think!

[Alex]

I voted and now I'm confused.  Does bootleg mean the same as hack?  If so, how can a game be a bootleg and unique? Or is a bootleg just a stolen game, packaged under a different name?

 

I can see how that's confusing. That's really an option for people who think that all unique games should be given a rarity, regardless of the company that produced it. For example, if a company that normally produces bootlegs also produces a single unique game, then that game should be given a rarity but that same company's bootlegs should not.

 

The reason that's different from saying that "only unique games" should be given rarity, is because that would eliminate companies like Froggo (who were a legitimate company, but just published previously existing games).

[krisjohn]

The reason that's different from saying that "only unique games" should be given rarity, is because that would eliminate companies like Froggo (who were a legitimate company, but just published previously existing games).

 

Surely, saying that unique titles should be given a single rarity would also collapse all label variations down to a single rarity, which would be too low for some variants and too high for others.

 

I don't know how managable or unmanagable the database is at the moment, but surely we should be breaking things down into finer and finer detail as time goes by, not merging records and losing data.

[Alex]

The reason that's different from saying that "only unique games" should be given rarity, is because that would eliminate companies like Froggo (who were a legitimate company, but just published previously existing games).

 

Surely, saying that unique titles should be given a single rarity would also collapse all label variations down to a single rarity, which would be too low for some variants and too high for others.

 

I don't know how managable or unmanagable the database is at the moment, but surely we should be breaking things down into finer and finer detail as time goes by, not merging records and losing data.

 

No, nobody is saying that unique titles should be given a single rarity. Only that unique titles from predominately bootleg companies should also have a rarity, in addition to the official releases and label variations.

 

For example, unknown Taiwan company releases their version of Frogger. It's simply Frogger with their bootleg label on it. They don't own the rights to the game, and it's sold on the gray market. This game would not hav a rarity. Then, same Taiwan company also releases "Space Varmints", a game that is totally new to the market. This game would then have a rarity.

[Thomas Jentzsch]

Give the collectors what they want, no problem with that.

 

But please classify those clearly as bootlegs (= hacks) so that somebody, who is interested in the content and not the package, get's his information too.

[Cybergoth]

I don't see why they shouldn't have a rarity... although assigning a rarity to modern bootlegs, like those from Hozer would be a bad idea.

 

Actually I'd say this'd be a brill idea. Assuming the total number of Gunfight cartridges sold worldwide is

 

Greetings,

Manuel