XTClaus Posted June 25, 2002 Share Posted June 25, 2002 Before playing the 2600 version I've played River Raid on C64. There where enemy tanks to protect the bridges. Where are the tanks in the Atari Version? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Room 34 Posted June 25, 2002 Share Posted June 25, 2002 Activision sent them off to attack Atari headquarters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XTClaus Posted June 25, 2002 Author Share Posted June 25, 2002 Ok, thats the point. If I fly my aircraft to the headquarter - how many of these tanks are there? Should I take Pitfall-Harry with me and parachute him to the front-line? How can Mr. Dig Dug help me and what shall I tell Mrs. Pac Man? I've got a pretty affair with her. Is it possible to get help from the Missle Command section while attacking Atari HQ? I just met Mr.Defender and Commander Starmaster and they will come with me... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris++ Posted June 25, 2002 Share Posted June 25, 2002 Be calm...have a seat. Now, take a deep breath. Listen carefully. We are your friends. We want to help you. But first, you have to be willing to help yourself. Come back to mother Earth, my friend. We'll get you through this. -- Dr. Chris . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Room 34 Posted June 25, 2002 Share Posted June 25, 2002 Looks like someone's been reading too many Atari Force comics... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jentzsch Posted June 25, 2002 Share Posted June 25, 2002 Where are the tanks in the Atari Version? Activision had an extra feature to the 2600 version: Disguised Tanks! While they are disguised, they can't fire and the player get's no points when hitting them. Unfortunately the disguise mode code has a bug, so that the tanks show up too late for most players (starting from level 1024). When converting the 2600 original for other plattforms, they corrected this bug, but (I don't know why) removed the feature completely. See my disassembly for details. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jentzsch Posted June 26, 2002 Share Posted June 26, 2002 BUMP! Nobody interested? too obvious I guess Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NE146 Posted June 26, 2002 Share Posted June 26, 2002 ok Thomas I'll bite.. So are you joking? are there tanks that show up around level 1024?!?!? And they're invisible? And they can't fire? And you get no points when hitting them? So for all practical purposes, they're not there? Or are they there sometimes and then get invisible on and off? I don't understand... So ARE there tanks in 2600 River Raid? If so, can you possibly alter the code to have them come out earlier? What's the deal dude? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jentzsch Posted June 26, 2002 Share Posted June 26, 2002 So are you joking? are there tanks that show up around level 1024?!?!? And they're invisible? And they can't fire? And you get no points when hitting them? So for all practical purposes, they're not there? Or are they there sometimes and then get invisible on and off? I don't understand... No, the tanks were planned to be there nearly from the beginning (after only a few bridges). The disguise feature was probably planned for a bit higher levels. But they mixed up the code, so now they are allways disguised in the lower levels and start showing up (and fire and can be hit) after level 1024 (=2^10). If so, can you possibly alter the code to have them come out earlier? Unfortunately this a real problem. The code is very heavily optimzed now. So I haven't found a way to correct the bug without breaking other things. But when I find some more spare time, I'll definitely try again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Room 34 Posted June 26, 2002 Share Posted June 26, 2002 I think Thomas is teasing us. Is it even possible to get to a level 1024 in this game? Since each level's layout is different, there must be code in the game that provides layouts for a certain number of levels. Definitely less than 1024 of them! I think we should inspect Thomas's disassembly of the game and see once and for all whether he's serious or not... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jentzsch Posted June 26, 2002 Share Posted June 26, 2002 Is it even possible to get to a level 1024 in this game? Since each level's layout is different, there must be code in the game that provides layouts for a certain number of levels. Definitely less than 1024 of them! No, if you look at my disassembly, you will find that there are 57337 different levels generated. They are not stored in the ROM, but are generated through a random number generator (same principle as in Pitfall!, just more levels) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moycon Posted June 26, 2002 Share Posted June 26, 2002 Oh, yes I see it now.... Clear as mud. The tanks come after level 1024.... Right before the hidden hot air balloons!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Room 34 Posted June 26, 2002 Share Posted June 26, 2002 They are not stored in the ROM, but are generated through a random number generator (same principle as in Pitfall!, just more levels) OK... that seems plausible to me. But I still don't believe that there are tanks. (I looked at the disassembly, and the only mention of any tanks is the fuel tanks that are all over the place in the game.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jentzsch Posted June 26, 2002 Share Posted June 26, 2002 (I looked at the disassembly, and the only mention of any tanks is the fuel tanks that are all over the place in the game.) I just found out about the tanks lately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Room 34 Posted June 26, 2002 Share Posted June 26, 2002 I just found out about the tanks lately. I don't buy it!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mvigor Posted June 26, 2002 Share Posted June 26, 2002 Bah! *Waves Thomas away* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mvigor Posted June 26, 2002 Share Posted June 26, 2002 I think that Thomas is learning too much too fast. Kind of like the movie "The Lawnmower Man". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pitfall Harry Posted June 26, 2002 Share Posted June 26, 2002 I think Thomas has confused the hidden River Raid feature with a Zimag title. Ben Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jentzsch Posted June 26, 2002 Share Posted June 26, 2002 Mama, why does nobody believe me?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viso Posted June 26, 2002 Share Posted June 26, 2002 Maybe you could make a modified River Raid that starts at level 1024? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NE146 Posted June 26, 2002 Share Posted June 26, 2002 I believe you Thomas! But you realize saying that is like saying 2600 Pacman has fruits and intermissions in level 1024 etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XTClaus Posted June 26, 2002 Author Share Posted June 26, 2002 I saw a tank while boosting my retro-rockets right a the start-point. The reverse speed brought me to level 43786 and there were thousends of tanks in front of a strange building. And there is a flag on the building that says that we (the germans) will win the football (Fussball) match on sunday. But I was shot down very close to the goal... Any real help for the lost tanks possible? Maybe I can use my rare basic-modul for this job... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Slocum Posted June 26, 2002 Share Posted June 26, 2002 Funny how you don't actually mention this IN the dissesembly of River Raid.... -Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Propane13 Posted June 26, 2002 Share Posted June 26, 2002 Thomas, Are there any tank GFX in the disassembly? And could we verify if we were really bored with a hacked no-collision version? How long would it take? Seriously, are you kidding about this stuff? Besides, where's your Burger King demo, with actual development artwork? -John K. Harvey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris++ Posted June 26, 2002 Share Posted June 26, 2002 WHY THOMAS IS PLAYING WITH YOU: If the levels were generated randomly, they wouldn't be the same every time you play! For instance, after bridge 4, the route to 5 always looks exactly the same. Same beach shapes, same bad guys, same positions. This is true for every level -- they repeat without exception. I don't believe there's a single random number generation routine in this code. The whole game's pattern-based! -- Encyclopedia Brown Chris P.S. And Thomas, don't try to say that the random level generator doesn't start until wave 1023...I'm way ahead of ya! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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