peteym5 Posted November 2, 2018 Share Posted November 2, 2018 (edited) Regarding peteym5 writing about the lack of support for C64 cartridges, it seems that RGCD has released quite a bunch of excellent 16K homebrews for the C64 in the past few years. Most of them have been available as freely downloadable, but they still manage to sell cartridges for the collectors. There also are the EasyFlash type cartridges that can hold 1 MB or more, if 16K is not enough for your project. I looked up this RGCD site for Commodore 64 cartridges. Looking for 16K and 64K cartridges, and need to research what games already made for the Commodore 64. No sense of trying to make money off of something already out there, and sell almost nothing. I see the Commodore 64 cartridges does support bank switching. Because it is 6502 code, the Inflate compression routine should work on that system as well. Is this guy the only publisher of cartridges. I would like to see if anybody in the United States makes any. I may look for a co-programmer and assistance on porting stuff over as I am busy with 8-bit, 5200, and 7800 game projects. I think a game like Secretum Labyrinth will do go over well on the Commodore 64. Part of creating the game series was to show that the Atari 8-bit can do a Commodore 64 style game. The SL Games use multi-colored overplayed players to create the 3rd color, with multiplexing to create 8 players matching up what the Commodore 64 can do with 8 sprites. Super-IRG Mode simulates more onscreen colors for the background. The options to port over would be is use the color map or switch between 4 fonts with a Raster Interrupt (the C64 DLI equivalent) . I am not saying the game cannot be done and look as good on the Commodore 64 as it does on the 8-bit, it will look different. What looks better would be a matter of opinion. Edited November 2, 2018 by peteym5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_The Doctor__ Posted November 2, 2018 Share Posted November 2, 2018 (edited) I am glad to see petey will be releasing all of his c64 products for free..... as that is exactly what will happen in a week... they will have that done and over with... and distributed just that quickly. Have fun trying to pin the tail on a c64 pirate half way round the world, with a useless army of lawyers trying to chase down all the streams and avenues it will travel... all of which will prove expensive and fruitless. Edited November 2, 2018 by _The Doctor__ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peteym5 Posted November 2, 2018 Share Posted November 2, 2018 (edited) I am glad to see petey will be releasing all of his c64 products for free..... as that is exactly what will happen in a week... they will have that done and over with... and distributed just that quickly. Have fun trying to pin the tail on a c64 pirate half way round the world, with a useless army of lawyers trying to chase down all the streams and avenues it will travel... all of which will prove expensive and fruitless. In that case, I am not porting over to the Commodore 64. If someone want it, they will have to make it themselves and let them waste all their time and make no money. So are you saying now everyone in the Commodore 64 community is a pirate? Edited November 2, 2018 by peteym5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_The Doctor__ Posted November 2, 2018 Share Posted November 2, 2018 (edited) I don't think most of the commodore users realize those bases are providing pirated software, they assume it's legit or free. they don't look at the forums or any sales sites, they just visit the download sites and enjoy. It's just the culture. like a run away train. I haven't seen anything that hasn't gone that route. To be perfectly honest there is very very little that I would purchase after having tried it, commodore game play looks and sounds like mush to me. There are exceptions, I played a thexder like clone that was decent enough I bought once for cheap and a few others... that was long ago. Not all people are pirates or intentional pirates. I say go for it, you might get a couple sales. Build for each order, don't get ahead of it is all. Maybe you will get a good surprise. I am pretty sure you have heard this from people who are more active than myself in that scene... Edited November 2, 2018 by _The Doctor__ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peteym5 Posted November 2, 2018 Share Posted November 2, 2018 (edited) I am not going to get caught up and waste in these any of these piracy discussions. I did not start up anything about piracy this time. I am at liberty to discuss any methods I would use to deter theft of copyrighted works. Just wondering how many pages this will go before people start hurting and become vulgar at each other and Albert will need to lock up it. I just hope games are compared with videos instead of still pictures. Edited November 2, 2018 by peteym5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlsson Posted November 2, 2018 Share Posted November 2, 2018 As I mentioned, in rare cases cracker groups will post on CSDb that they have cracked a game, but not provide a download link. Sometimes that lasts 1-2 weeks, sometimes a couple months, sometimes there will never be a public link posted because the community of crackers have special feelings for a particular publisher and determine they have put so much effort into a game and offering it at a fair price so anyone who wants to play it should buy it. Thus if you're having fair approach to the community, you're far likely to get treated well than if you storm in and tell people all sorts of bad things that will happen to them if they even think about copying your software. Consider releasing demo versions as free downloads, perhaps just 1-2 levels of the game. It will make people pleased and buy your full game. If you don't believe in such freebies and refer to YouTube videos only, you won't be treated as well, in particular if you mention you're an Atari programmer who came to the Commodore scene to port a few of your games for profit. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted November 2, 2018 Share Posted November 2, 2018 (edited) I am not going to get caught up and waste in these any of these piracy discussions nor am I at liberty to discuss any methods I would use to deter theft of copyrighted works. You're well known for being preoccupied with the notion that the A8 community is full of pirates (to the extent that you wondered aloud if a popular Atari emulator could be customised to play encrypted games), and you're frequently the first to bring up the subject of piracy and IP theft, although not on this occasion. But if you apply the same sophisticated, top-secret countermeasures to a C64 port which you already employ (or would like to employ) with A8 releases, you'd probably have nothing to worry about. Edited November 2, 2018 by flashjazzcat 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_The Doctor__ Posted November 2, 2018 Share Posted November 2, 2018 Petey you just wander around looking for some way any way possible to mentions whatever it is you are trying to sell. Eventually it happens in a number of threads even though you already have dedicated threads to you wares. In almost every case you go on about protections and piracy or some such nonsense. I just wanted to expedite all that and get it over with. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrathchild Posted November 2, 2018 Share Posted November 2, 2018 And unless you are Philip Price or Bill Hogue then I should think any protection mechanism you believe sufficient will be neutered within a day, don't waste your time trying would be my advice. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heaven/TQA Posted November 2, 2018 Share Posted November 2, 2018 Yeah... probably should've stuck to that matra myself really, after letting myself be sidetracked by this thread and then falling ill again I'm nowhere near done for X... =-( I'm feeling a bit better today and want to try putting a little more work in over the weekend, but there's no major rush so I'm perhaps aiming for Compusphere since they take remote entries and the deadline is the 26th. So I should probably take your advice and make myself scarce... Kicking the 6510 off the bus is how the SuperCPU, CP/M cartridge, Turbo Chameleon and others work yeah, and the TC is already FPGA-based, with an Altera Cyclone 3 onboard. The default core takes over some of the C64's functions (that's how it gets a faster CPU clock without goofing up the VIC-II, they aren't using the same clock) and the results are funnleled back to the host machine whilst a copy is pushed out via VGA. There's even an audio jack on the side, I'm hoping someone adds OPL support alongside the second SID option, but they always seem busy and I don't want to be a nuisance. The TC has also got spaces available for loading other cores so, along with the option of writing your own for whatever nefarious purposes you have in mind, there's already a version of the MiniMig available along with other 8-bit systems including the Spectrum, MSX, PC Engine, Atari 2600 and Atari 8-bit, sadly without SIDE support at least right now... it'll be more than a little ironic if that goes in though, having a "stock" C64 running Avery's code... =-) Ah Jason... ok. I told the X guys to whipe Cosine from the greetings list in our C64 demo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heaven/TQA Posted November 2, 2018 Share Posted November 2, 2018 This time its same weekend that we will see C64 and hopefully a8 demo productions by the scene... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlsson Posted November 2, 2018 Share Posted November 2, 2018 It makes me wonder, have there been any demos ported from one system to the other, and even more importantly, developed by the same group for multiple targets at the same time? I know demos is all about taking the shortcuts to maximize the use of the respective hardware, which is the exact opposite of having code that can be run on many different targets, but for a group/developer active and knowledgable about several of them, it should be doable? Now that I write this, I just realize Heaven/TQA already kind of did that, release a prequel routine on the VIC-20 and a full demo on the Atari 8-bit earlier this year? Though I'm not sure if that counts as porting even if some of the code may have been reused. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heaven/TQA Posted November 2, 2018 Share Posted November 2, 2018 (edited) I did used some code and spread to several plAtforms. The vic shares a lot of my a8 work adapted to the hardware. Same my C64 stuff. My 3D routines are not highly optimized so they can be reused on 6502 platforms. But yeah TMR did twin demos me remembering UK scene radio demo e.g. http://www.cosine.org.uk/products.php?prod=cgm_ukscene&4mat=c64 But stay tuned... there is some multi platform thing coming up... just wait few hours Edited November 2, 2018 by Heaven/TQA 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunstar Posted November 2, 2018 Share Posted November 2, 2018 (edited) There are plenty of C64 and Atari demos out there where a hacker or group saw the demo on the other machine and said "I bet I can do that on my (insert C64 or Atari) too! And then did it, but not using the other's code, just writing their own that accomplishes, as close as they could get, on their respective machines, the demo from the other machine. Or parts of demos doing the same things as they saw in part of a demo on the other machine. For example, how many different platforms has a version of the Amiga bouncing ball demo made it too? I know there are versions on the A8 and ST, I would assume one made it to the C64 too, but I don't recall off-hand if I have ever seen it myself...maybe I'll go search for "bouncing ball demo" on youtube and see what comes up for various computers...or is that called the 'boink' demo for the Amiga and others too, or just Atari 8-bit? Edited November 2, 2018 by Gunstar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heaven/TQA Posted November 2, 2018 Share Posted November 2, 2018 There are plenty of C64 and Atari demos out there where a hacker or group saw the demo on the other machine and said "I bet I can do that on my (insert C64 or Atari) too! And then did it, but not using the other's code, just writing their own that accomplishes, as close as they could get, on their respective machines, the demo from the other machine. Or parts of demos doing the same things as they saw in part of a demo on the other machine. For example, how many different platforms has a version of the Amiga bouncing ball demo made it too? I know there are versions on the A8 and ST, I would assume one made it to the C64 too, but I don't recall off-hand if I have ever seen it myself...maybe I'll go search for "bouncing ball demo" on youtube and see what comes up for various computers... I did it on a8 and Vic... https://youtu.be/R5gDeHfJI8k https://youtu.be/fSwwqt3ue2M 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faicuai Posted November 2, 2018 Share Posted November 2, 2018 I did it on a8 and Vic...https://youtu.be/R5gDeHfJI8khttps://youtu.be/fSwwqt3ue2M No, my friend, that's the easy one. The one you need to take a look at is HYPERBOINK on A8, and with all of its individual controls. It is there where we will be able to appreciate all similarities and differences, combined, between these platforms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mclaneinc Posted November 2, 2018 Share Posted November 2, 2018 The C64 'scene' is actually very careful about what they post, the bottom line is warez ARE available in most cases but not everything gets pirated and spread. They don't use newsgroups to distribute the stuff and there's no pay for stuff that I've ever seen and for years I updated and created the FTP list for the C64 stuff in the Usenet groups. The links were NOT new warez, that was banned by me straight away and whatever sites there were faded very quickly and it went underground so to speak.. If fair to say that the lists I accepted and posted were containing old stuff, of course there was copyrighted stuff still active but if a if anything new slipped in I happily removed the site at the request of the author... The point here is that C64 stuff isn't as easily available as maybe is thought in terms of new games...Scene notices are posted on CSDb as said and also as said there's no links to the stuff....Its out there as I say but you won't find it on sites or usenet so there's some thought in it.. The difference on the Atari is that there's no places I know of that actively spread new games that are paid items and there's no 'scene' site with nfo's on that I know of. Where I differ is that I hope in the future items that have become X years old (whatever time period is deemed ok) that these things do get dumped and made public because the Atari side tend to horde and the real carts / disks fade / become non available and there's no historical record of them about bar text which is silly, many of us here these days rely on the fact that images were made and stuff archived be it paid or not...I think it should all be archived eventually and it not treated as terrible criminal act, if the author no longer supports the game is possibly isn't alive then make the game part of history.. It may annoy some but as I say, I can't imagine there's many with real versions of all the images they have or risk using the real item too much (yeah I know its not treated as piracy if you own it) but its good the images are out there... And Pete, don't mention piracy as you did in one post and then say you have not said it and make a fuss about the thread...Its not logical mate...We know your stance...Lets not add to the aggro... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted November 2, 2018 Share Posted November 2, 2018 No, my friend, that's the easy one. The one you need to take a look at is HYPERBOINK on A8, and with all of its individual controls. It is there where we will be able to appreciate all similarities and differences, combined, between these platforms. I prefer this version , because it show a lot similarities to the Amiga multitasking. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlsson Posted November 2, 2018 Share Posted November 2, 2018 Or parts of demos doing the same things as they saw in part of a demo on the other machine. Sure, implementing an effect seen on another platform is common. I really meant porting the full demo with same graphics, music, possibly even same scrolltexts if you have some. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrathchild Posted November 2, 2018 Share Posted November 2, 2018 perhaps if some older but well known title was picked for that very same purpose in the near future Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ute Posted November 2, 2018 Share Posted November 2, 2018 Look no further, but at the present work and talent leveraging (in turn) past work at talent: Avery's 60fps Video Player, which is more of a brute-force, or "Tour-de-force" FACTUAL accomplishment that provides a sort of "figure of merit" of the platform's ARCHITECTURE (Atari), dating 1979! By that account, being able to display 60fps video with NATIVE HW (As low as Colleen / 32 Kbytes) other than large-scale storage (mechanical or solid state), is absolutely MASSIVE !!! On this account alone, ANY modern-time "public-opinion" editor (aware of such feat and its significance), would easily catapult the Abit family into the top three spots of ANY review, anywhere, any time! I don't dispute the Atari at all, only the results of the article saying Apple 2 was the best pc ever and leaving the c64 off the list completely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ute Posted November 2, 2018 Share Posted November 2, 2018 you need to go back and read the information provided through out and the criteria involved.. if all you go on is opinion.. and everything in your mind is opinion or social construct.. reality comes crashing down. But hey opinions are like *ss holes.... everyone has one... and they all stink.. just skip over provable information and examples. it's all opinion. classic. why bother posting at all if that's how you see it. When the facts don't back you up... just re brand them as opinions.. that makes them all go away. why don't you read the supporting information? Probably too much work. Or since you view everything as an opinion, you can just discount it. Let's take one post, don't look at supporting posts, or move towards considering it as setting context. Ignore everything before it and start fresh there.. as if nothing else matters. So did you actually head your own advice and read the article. If you had you would have read at the end the author actually owned an Apple 2e. This is called BIAS, and can only ever be an opinion. Also in the beginning of the article he sets down certain criterion for what the greatest PC's ever should be, only in such a way that it favors the Apple 2 as the winner of the article. This is called Confirmation Bias. And if you are dead set on the scientific method of 'fact' finding you'd have realized confirmation bias is one of the biggest fallacies of a scientific argument. Then you added condescension to the mix with your "Folks should re-read so they have some semblance...etc." And the reason for this particular thread is for people discuss/argue their opinions. Take as many looks you need until you get some semblance of what the discussion that was really suppose to be taking place here. That's the point, without trying to insult everyone else's intelligence. In an effort to help you in some way I will concede the whole 1 person + 1 person can = many more argument and all that silliness you will try... possibly in an effort to say I didn't provide context for the example. I might be giving you too much credit though... Again with the condescension and that somehow your intelligence is on trial here, and it's not these are just discussions. It's a weak move to try and discredit someones intelligence because you disagree with them. But something people do when they don't have an argument - Myself included. And why are you so bent on defending that article about Apple2 being the best anyway? I don't get it. As an Atari forum I would think that we would all want Atari on the top of any opinion based list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faicuai Posted November 2, 2018 Share Posted November 2, 2018 (edited) I prefer this version , because it show a lot similarities to the Amiga multitasking. VERY nice... still misses a copy of key aspects captured in FujiBoink and HyperBoink, but, on the other hand, your preferred version does demonstrates powerful and compelling concepts, relative to the platform's age and inherent design. I don't recall seen it, like this, though. Kudos! Edited November 2, 2018 by Faicuai 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoestring Posted November 2, 2018 Share Posted November 2, 2018 I noticed the other day that you can kick the 6510 off the bus from the cartridge port so there's an interesting potential to just turn it into a zombie shell of a C64 with the custom chips driven by whatever you want on the cartridge. Sort of like a SNES SuperFX cartridge on steroids. Part of me wants to wire up a FPGA board to a connector to try that out.... It's shut down by asserting RDY and AEC. I suspect they did this to facilitate things like the CP/M cartridge, which contained a Z80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heaven/TQA Posted November 2, 2018 Share Posted November 2, 2018 Yeah old days I missed that boink... very nice amigaish... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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