Anybody completely switch to emulation and not look back?

[iwan-iwanowitsch-goratschin]

I have the stella emulator on my computer but I don´t use it. I NEED those nostalgic feelings while playin´ which I only have when I am gaming on my

original stuff!

 

FOR the same reason I don´t like to play submarine simulations :!:

[supercat]

Flaky how?

 

The screen seems to switch between muted colors and bright colors (I'm using the S-video mod), and there's some horizontal jitter. Sometimes playing with the switch makes things work for awhile, so I'm thinking the switch is probably the issue. I'm just curious if anyone else has had such problems, since people here have generally had good things to say about Commodore monitors.

[+stephena]

I've actually never figured out how to get Stella up and running,so it's all real hardware for me.

Ask here if you have any questions. The latest versions are as 'plug-and-play' as I can make them. You point the emulator to a list of ROMs, then double click the ROM to start a game. I'm not sure how to make it more intuitive than that.

[+stephena]

While I have StellaX and all the ROMs you can get, the only thing I use emulation for is MAME. Everything else I prefer the original hardware.

While the real hardware is always preferable to emulation, you probably shouldn't judge Stella based on StellaX. It's at least 5-6 years out of date.

[PressureCooker2600]

Plus.....sometimes emulation is more convenient.

 

Like when you're supposed to be working.

[Zwackery]

While I have StellaX and all the ROMs you can get, the only thing I use emulation for is MAME. Everything else I prefer the original hardware.

While the real hardware is always preferable to emulation, you probably shouldn't judge Stella based on StellaX. It's at least 5-6 years out of date.

I'm not judging Stella based on StellaX - just saying that this is what I have as far as emulation goes and I don't use it at all as I prefer hardware to emulation. The fact that it is 5-6 years out of date just shows that is how long ago I downloaded it and how little I care about emulation.

[7800Lover]

It depends. I like emulation as much as the next guy. But as far as experience goes, it is just more satisfying for me to play the actual game on an actual console.

 

This may not always be possible especially in the case of prototypes and rare games, but emulation can never completely replace actual game play on a console.

[Artlover]

Flaky how?

The screen seems to switch between muted colors and bright colors (I'm using the S-video mod), and there's some horizontal jitter. Sometimes playing with the switch makes things work for awhile, so I'm thinking the switch is probably the issue. I'm just curious if anyone else has had such problems, since people here have generally had good things to say about Commodore monitors.

Can't say that I've heard that before. Is it a 1902 or 1902A's.

 

1902's were pretty solid.

 

1902A's had a big problem with cold solder joints, particularly around the flyback, that caused video problems from jitter, weak image, to no image at all with staticy crt shutdown (tho the neck would still be powered up). Rated up there as one of the worst monitors CBM ever released.

 

I guess you can try looking over the switch, but the fact that you said it only "sometimes" helps, makes me wonder. Have you tried jiggling cables, pushing on the rca's and stuff when it happens too? Or try whacking it. Basicly trying to find out if it's the fiddiling with the switch, or the movement/pressure put on the PCB that is making the difference.

[phuzzed]

I've tried to switch completely to emulation 100%, but it just isn't the same. Even with the Stelladapter (which is a great product), there is someting about physically getting up, shoving the cartridge in, and hitting the power switch, and holding the real controller in hand.

 

Plus, I have all of my systems in my living room and when people come over, they go "Wow... you still got an Atari? I want to play!"

[+stephena]

While I have StellaX and all the ROMs you can get, the only thing I use emulation for is MAME. Everything else I prefer the original hardware.

While the real hardware is always preferable to emulation, you probably shouldn't judge Stella based on StellaX. It's at least 5-6 years out of date.

I'm not judging Stella based on StellaX - just saying that this is what I have as far as emulation goes and I don't use it at all as I prefer hardware to emulation. The fact that it is 5-6 years out of date just shows that is how long ago I downloaded it and how little I care about emulation.

OK, I didn't know what you meant. If I had access to all the original hardware, an older TV and a place to put it all, I'd probably prefer the real thing too So I do understand and agree with your position.

[Paranoid]

I've got a Colecovision, an INTV with CC3, a 7800 with CC2, a 5200 with 128-in-1, and a bunch of other original hardware. Vectrex with Sean Kelly Multicart... etc...

 

I've also got a MAME cabinet and a Chopper Command cocktail table.

 

The real deal is superior for *parties*. And one look at Chopper Command playing on the real deal versus the emulation in MAME makes it clear that you're making a sacrafice with emulation.

 

But for general, day to day gaming purposes, emulation with the proper accessories is the better bet, imho.

 

As mentioned, a real inexpensive way to go is an XBox with the Radica Xbox arcade/fighting stick (same mechanicals as the RSI stick used for mods here).

 

With something like that, listen... it is virtually the same experience on my Xbox as it would be with the real hardware and a multicart full of ROM images. I'm hooked up to an authentic 80s CRT TV, I'm using virtually the same joystick that I would be on my 7800 or 5200, and I'm using the same ROM image too.

 

What is the difference, the plastic that the stick is hooked up to and a few switches... more or less. Seriously. I've maintained for awhile, that if I hid an Atari 2600 or 7800 in a big brown box with a regular joystick, and a PC hooked up via a Stelladaptor... or used a Xbox with the Radica stick, and did blind tests, on MOST rom images MOST people would not be able to reliably tell the difference between modern emulation and the real equipment. Heck... we'll throw in a 4th box, hidden, running the FB2...

 

I bet 0% of the casual gamers could tell the difference, and that 95% of the dedicated and hardcore gamers would be able to. My guess is that you would *even* fool a lot of the purists.

 

And the best thing is that the MOST popular games are usually the BEST emulated.

 

When emulation first started out, it wasn't like this. Controllers have always been the big problem... but sound and video issues used to be worse, too. Emulation has really become mature over the last couple of years. I think the EARLY emulators DROVE the resurgence of popularity in the classic hardware. People found emulators, found that it was utterly disappointing, and decided to go out and find the real classic hardware instead. That mind set got kind of entrenched... and I'm as guilty as the next guy. I bought all the real hardware for just this reason, and because of just this kind of experience. But now, if I had to do it all over again, I think I *probably* would have skipped the investment in real hardware and just gone emulation. Emulation even does a passing good job on Vector games and systems, these days.

 

But then again... if a kit car performs as good as the real Ferrari and is more reliable and half the price, I'd rather have the kit car... fake or not.

[Paranoid]

The fact that it is 5-6 years out of date just shows that is how long ago I downloaded it and how little I care about emulation.

 

I guess this kind of helps my point.

 

If you're technically inclined, emulation can be a pretty good alternative to the real thing.

[Zwackery]

The fact that it is 5-6 years out of date just shows that is how long ago I downloaded it and how little I care about emulation.

 

I guess this kind of helps my point.

 

If you're technically inclined, emulation can be a pretty good alternative to the real thing.

 

I am just not following your point. Are you saying that if you're technically inclined, you can make emulation very close to the original thing? Well, okay, but it still is emulated on a fundamental level. If you're really technically inclined, you should be able to get any of the old hardware, understand how it works (and how to fix it if it doesn't), and use it.

[Rik]

Now answer this:

 

Who plays the real thing on a genuine seventies/eighties tube?

 

I do.I have a 26" HITACHI,built in 1976.Its one of those TV'S in a huge wooden cabinet that looks like furniture,with the speakers built in,and the picture is as good as the day it was bought.My 2600 games and all the others look awesome on it.

[supercat]

...there is someting about physically getting up, shoving the cartridge in, and hitting the power switch, and holding the real controller in hand.

 

Sticking in a DVD is more convenient than getting out a screen and threading a movie projector, but there is something more magical about 'real' movies (though I'm always paranoid they'll get scratched).

[Lord Helmet]

I've actually never figured out how to get Stella up and running,so it's all real hardware for me.

 

 

You should try again...it's really simple.

 

I use both emulaiton and real hardware.

[Recycled]

I have the stella emulator on my computer but I don´t use it. I NEED those nostalgic feelings while playin´ which I only have when I am gaming on my

original stuff!

 

FOR the same reason I don´t like to play submarine simulations :!:

 

just make sure it's a philly steak sub....so I won't be hungry while raiding your collection.

[iwan-iwanowitsch-goratschin]

I have the stella emulator on my computer but I don´t use it. I NEED those nostalgic feelings while playin´ which I only have when I am gaming on my

original stuff!

 

FOR the same reason I don´t like to play submarine simulations :!:

 

just make sure it's a philly steak sub....so I won't be hungry while raiding your collection.

 

 

You will get your "bloody" philly something......that´s for sure.....

[Paranoid]

I am just not following your point. Are you saying that if you're technically inclined, you can make emulation very close to the original thing? Well, okay, but it still is emulated on a fundamental level. If you're really technically inclined, you should be able to get any of the old hardware, understand how it works (and how to fix it if it doesn't), and use it.

 

I can, and I do. But repairing and maintaining 30+ year old equipment is less convienient and requires far more technical expertise than running emulation. It becomes a factor of how much effort you want to put into it and how close you want to come to the real thing. I've got 2 or 3 7800 systems, 3 or 4 5200 systems, a couple of Colecovisions, a 2600, an INTV, a Vectrex, an 800, an 800xl... a couple of Xboxes, a PS2, a Wii, a few Genesis units, a PS1... and all the various stuff that plugs into them or that they plug into. Not to mention the real arcade stuff and MAME. It is not CHEAP or a casual proposition to own and support such a collection. I've modded, hacked, and otherwise delved deep into the DIY aspect of the hobby... I've documented and supplied those documents back to the community as often as I could, on a variety of projects supporting real retro hardware and consoles. I believe my investment and effort typically far exceeds the typical retro-collector's. (Although there are clearly users here I could not hold a candle to in this regard).

 

But the one thing I never caught the bug on is extreme COLLECTING for the sake of collecting, or an irrational preference for the "authentic" experience that seems to often go hand in hand with the first. The people who want to hold the real, mint, original boxes, instruction manuals, catalogs, and inserts seem to be the same ones that want to feel the real cart sliding into the real slot on the authentic machine. I just want to play the game. That gives me the same warm retro fuzzies all by itself.

 

The way I look at it, with the REAL equipment...

 

I mostly play 2600 ROM image titles on a 7800 via a CC2, simply for the sake of convenience. I have most of the carts... but it is so much easier to just have one cart plugged in all the time that has all of them. I don't use a prostick or a CX46 stick... I use a Radica Space Invaders modded stick.

 

At some point, I realized that, with an Xbox running emulation (read: the same ROM images)... plugged into the same TV, using a Radica Xbox stick... the end result is virtually indistinguishible from the "real" hardware that I would be using... except the Xbox setup cost me literally HUNDREDS and HUNDREDS of dollars less...

 

Same deal for my 5200... AV modded, 5200 128-in-1 USB multicart... a bunch of gold-dot and modded joysticks...

 

Most often... I play 5200 titles on the Xbox...

 

And Colecovision...

 

And INTV...

 

Except, as an added bonus, the Xbox takes up FAR less physical space, and I don't have to worry about finding obscure power supplies or joysticks as the old stuff dies. Heck... I even play MAME arcade there more often than on the real cabinet.

 

Again... for parties... nothing beats the conversation impact of the real deal... and there are certain cases where emulation still doesn't work well... Games that use special controllers like the keypad, or use the switches for special in-game functions (like Starmaster)... But for a good 95% of the games a good 95% of the time, emulation is virtually identical to the real thing... only FAR more convenient and FAR less expensive and FAR easier to support.

 

And still, I'm telling you... if I put the TV out in front, hid behind it and unplugged the real deal and then plugged in the Xbox both running the same title, with the same joystick hooked up to either, you wouldn't be able to tell the difference 99 times out of 100.

 

It isn't just a matter of preference, IMHO. It is more a psychological issue. The game is the game, in too many cases... if you're into the game, you're not going to care or even notice the difference. To that end, it doesn't really *matter* to me what I play it on. I enjoy Montezuma's Revenge on my 5200, on my 800xl, on my Xbox, and on my PPC PDA... and it is the EXACT same game... same timing, same graphics, same feel... (because it is the same ROM image, basically), on all 4 units... even the palm. Same for Donkey Kong. The most important thing to me, in my experience, is how well the controller works with the game. If the controller has the feel of the original one (and surpisingly, my PDA *does* feel remarkably close to any of the originals), then I get caught up in the game, and I feel the nostalgia.

 

The only reason I ever mentioned the "technically inclined" thing is because I've heard a lot of people complain that they're incompetent with PCs and they can't figure out how to get emulation to work - and I buy that. Modding an Xbox is not easy, and emulators are not the most click setup and click through saying YES to everything kind of applications, in general. Your same argument AGAINST this really defends this, too. If you're not competent enough with technology to support and install emulation applications, then supporting and maintaining 30 year old equipment will likely be rough for you, too - unless you've got deep pockets.

 

Edited October 2, 2007 by Paranoid

[PressureCooker2600]

Phew............that was a long post.

 

I needed some popcorn and a soda just to get through.

[almightytodd]

If you're not competent enough with technology to support and install emulation applications, then supporting and maintaining 30 year old equipment will likely be rough for you, too - unless you've got deep pockets.

Your explanation seems so reasonable and rational... ...perhaps the nick "Paranoid" is less than appropriate?

[+Random Terrain]

Speaking of inserting the cartridges, the first time I saw an ad back in the 1980s for one of those things where you could have many cartridges hooked up at one time and just press a button to play, I almost crapped my pants (never could get one, though). I didn't have a need to take a cartridge and push it in and pull it out as if it was a pathetic replacement for sex, I just wanted to play my favorite games.

[Paranoid]

Your explanation seems so reasonable and rational... ...perhaps the nick "Paranoid" is less than appropriate?

Rational thought and reason has caused me nothing but grief around here. They are over-rated qualities, if you asked me.

 

And you know me once I get wound up, PC...

[phaxda]

Well, this thread and RF interference (aaargh) got me to download the latest version of Stella OS X (I'd been using a very old version for no apparent reason) and mess around with it on my PowerBook, and I've got to say--emulation has come a long way, especially Stella. My hat is off to the developers of this fine program. I guess I'll get a Stelladaptor after all.

 

I too have all the original equipment and aside from the WOW factor I get from visitors, when it's time to play games it can be a real pain in the butt to actually get going on it. I guess I'm just lazy. But emulation on the Dreamcast works well for me and I too will probably get a nice Xbox for emulation when they cost the $20 I got my Dreamcast for .

 

Then again, sometimes I just like to select a cart, plug it in my console, and play it straight-up old-school on my woodgrain-sportin' RCA picture tube. It's nice to have options!

[Artlover]

I didn't have a need to take a cartridge and push it in and pull it out as if it was a pathetic replacement for sex,

 

"Hey baby, can I stick my cartridge in your slot. "

 

{smack}