emkay Posted February 17, 2008 Share Posted February 17, 2008 Charset you say... so can't the A8 change the shape 4 chars within a single frame, is that the reason for the boxes? I guess it's a saving memory purpose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cybergoth Posted February 17, 2008 Share Posted February 17, 2008 Charset you say... so can't the A8 change the shape 4 chars within a single frame, is that the reason for the boxes?I guess it's a saving memory purpose. Because there's just a limited number of chars available at a time, like 256 on the C64? Or just generally, because this is going to be a single load? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heaven/TQA Posted February 17, 2008 Share Posted February 17, 2008 limited chars... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cybergoth Posted February 17, 2008 Share Posted February 17, 2008 limited chars... Hm... *scratcheshead* IIRC on the C64 you could possibly just set the pointers to another charset midscreen for example to overcome this limitation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted February 17, 2008 Share Posted February 17, 2008 limited chars... Hm... *scratcheshead* IIRC on the C64 you could possibly just set the pointers to another charset midscreen for example to overcome this limitation. Those "tricks" are already done in the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cybergoth Posted February 17, 2008 Share Posted February 17, 2008 limited chars... Hm... *scratcheshead* IIRC on the C64 you could possibly just set the pointers to another charset midscreen for example to overcome this limitation. Those "tricks" are already done in the game. Uhm... but then apparently they didn't help much avoiding the boxed bomb look... What is the real limiting factor then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rybags Posted February 17, 2008 Share Posted February 17, 2008 In that screen at least, the problem could be overcome by 2 characters with the sandy shades tiled together with the top of the bomb. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heaven/TQA Posted February 17, 2008 Share Posted February 17, 2008 (edited) it's a trade off for chars using the background gfx, chars needed for the software sprites etc... several charsets are spread over the screen. if you read the english explanation regarding "inside bomb jack"... it's a fair compromise of the existing hardware limits... the guys working on the game really know the Atari machine so I know they squeeze out any trick they can find and use... and C64 has 256 chars per charset while Atari has 128... Edited February 17, 2008 by Heaven/TQA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heaven/TQA Posted February 17, 2008 Share Posted February 17, 2008 and the c64 version has this bomb boxes as well... http://images.google.de/imgres?imgurl=http...3DE203%26sa%3DN Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miker Posted February 17, 2008 Share Posted February 17, 2008 Vega said if there will be still some chars left for masking - he surely does it. Now it's time to optimize the engine and to get rid of some nasty bugs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Philsan Posted February 17, 2008 Share Posted February 17, 2008 (edited) and the c64 version has this bomb boxes as well... http://images.google.de/imgres?imgurl=http...3DE203%26sa%3DN Exactly, yesterday I have played C64's Bomb Jack to hear SID's version of Jean Michel Jarre music. Edited February 17, 2008 by Philsan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cybergoth Posted February 17, 2008 Share Posted February 17, 2008 and the c64 version has this bomb boxes as well... http://images.google.de/imgres?imgurl=http...3DE203%26sa%3DN Well, but the C64 version is already fucked beyond repair for 20 years, so it's a bit too late to bug its programmers over such things Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tezz Posted February 17, 2008 Share Posted February 17, 2008 (edited) It seems to be a lot of controvosy over the non-masked bombs! Similar posts were on Kaz's page too. We're all aware of these things. Remember it is not complete yet, you're looking at WIP . The charsets are maxed in some areas, it's been carefully planned, the backgrounds use 4 fonts with max 83 chars in each, the bombs and ledges are fixed chars added to each font and the rest is used by the soft sprites. it's likely some rejigging will need to be done to make some free chars but prob only on background 3. Anyway these things are really just smaller details to deal with later on. I mentioned earlier in the thread that the c64 heritage will be improved along the way and not just ported as is. Don't worry Edited February 17, 2008 by Tezz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cybergoth Posted February 17, 2008 Share Posted February 17, 2008 Excellent! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
analmux Posted February 17, 2008 Share Posted February 17, 2008 it's a trade off for chars using the background gfx, chars needed for the software sprites etc... several charsets are spread over the screen. if you read the english explanation regarding "inside bomb jack"... it's a fair compromise of the existing hardware limits... the guys working on the game really know the Atari machine so I know they squeeze out any trick they can find and use... and C64 has 256 chars per charset while Atari has 128... Where can I find the explanation "inside bomb jack" ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heaven/TQA Posted February 17, 2008 Share Posted February 17, 2008 some pages ago when Tezz wrote some words about the project and the polish stuff at atari.online.pl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happymonster Posted February 17, 2008 Share Posted February 17, 2008 I'm sure you'll be able to sacrifice some characters to avoid the boxing bomb package in the final game. The background quality can be sacrified a little here to stop the bombs being too distracting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happymonster Posted February 17, 2008 Share Posted February 17, 2008 (edited) Also, I wonder if that blue sky would look nice and more atari like with a DLI gradient. Edited February 17, 2008 by happymonster Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted February 17, 2008 Share Posted February 17, 2008 Also, I wonder if that blue sky would look nice and more atari like with a DLI gradient. Indeed. After the game is finished and there is enought cpu time and memory space available , some nicely placed "sky DLIs" really can enhance the view. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miker Posted February 17, 2008 Share Posted February 17, 2008 (edited) happymonster: it was probably told before, but i repeat it now: treat existing video as early WIP, the colors/chars/whatewer will be adjusted when the time comes, and maybe not at this moment. Or do you want the game bugged and totally unplayable, but with that COMPLETE graphics? (Forgive us but important things come first!) Edited February 17, 2008 by miker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cybergoth Posted February 17, 2008 Share Posted February 17, 2008 happymonster: it was probably told before, but i repeat it now: treat existing video as early WIP, the colors/chars/whatewer will be adjusted when the time comes, and maybe not at this moment. Well, if you don't want WIP comments, don't post WIP material. Or do you want the game bugged and totally unplayable, but with that COMPLETE graphics? At least then it's worth debugging it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miker Posted February 17, 2008 Share Posted February 17, 2008 Oh well... @Cybernoid: it's not we don't like the comments, really. Maybe we choose those more contructive ones (or what). The game is also tested on real machines to avoid another(?) emu-only production. And we know about colors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tezz Posted February 17, 2008 Share Posted February 17, 2008 Also, I wonder if that blue sky would look nice and more atari like with a DLI gradient. There were scanline dli's made earlier but remember in the info I wrote earlier it simplified many procedures to have the dlis with only row changes and to assist with speed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carmel_andrews Posted February 18, 2008 Share Posted February 18, 2008 Anyone play 'Gunpowder Charlie' aka 'Goodbye Charlie' or little devil....Closest us A8r's have come to playing 'Bomb Jack' I've heard that someone is going to do Ghouls & Ghosts/Ghosts and Goblins....One hopes it's better then the red rat offering 'domain of the undead' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetboot Jack Posted February 18, 2008 Share Posted February 18, 2008 I've only just seen this thread, what a great looking (and sounding) piece of software - big props to all involved, nice work! sTeVE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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