Transfering ATR Images via Nullmodem & 850 Interface

[mrnukem]

My goal is to take .ATR images and have them written to real Atari disks via my 800 XL. Here is what I am working with.

 

I have an Atari 800 XL, 1050 Disk Drive, 850 Interface, Null Modem Cable connected to the 850 Interface and to my Windows XP computer's serial port and a copy of both Atari Dos 3 and Smartdos 6.1 for software on the Atari 800 XL. I also have Atari 1030 Modem but it's not hooked up.

 

I believe my biggest problem is that I do not have a terminal program on the Atari side of things. I tried the APE software package but it appears it wants to work via an SIO2PC type cable and not a direct serial port interface.

 

Is there a program out there that will allow me to transfer disk images from the Windows system to the Atari and then write disk images onto the 1050 drive without having software initially on the Atari side of things? I know that for the Amiga and Apple II series of computers I found programs that did the same thing I want to do here (For both of these platforms the software did an initial bootstrap off the serial port and created a program disk on the Apple & Amiga for use to transfer disk images)

 

Hope this all makes sense. I did read the different FAQ's and Googled many different search terms but am now at the point where I felt I could ask for help.

 

I know I can buy software and an SIO2PC cable but money is tight and I have plenty of blank floppy disks to use and really prefer to have my collections as "vintage" as possible.

 

Thank you

[Heaven/TQA]

wasn't there DCM kind of software which could turn back ATRs to atari disc drive?

 

and and terminal program I used when i was doing file transfer was Bobterm and on amiga i used another one i can not remember...

 

but to get you right...you want to transfer ATRs to 1050 floppy discs but connected computers via nullmodem?

[Fletch]

I used to do this with my Mac before sio2osx came out. Use a terminal program on both machines and send the *.atr file to the Atari. Once there I used a program called ATR2DISK to expand the ATR image into a diskette the Atari could use. I believe the ATR2DISK program was written by Tom Hunt who runs the Closer to Home Atari site.

 

 

It was at this link I believe: ftp://ftp.spudster.org//pub/Atari/CTH/Uti...rs/ATR2DISK.COM

 

Fletch

[mrnukem]

but to get you right...you want to transfer ATRs to 1050 floppy discs but connected computers via nullmodem?

 

Yes thats right. I just want a way to write .ATR files to floppy using my Atari 800Xl that has a 1050 Drive connected via a null modem cable between my PC and Atari.

 

Thank you

[mrnukem]

I used to do this with my Mac before sio2osx came out. Use a terminal program on both machines and send the *.atr file to the Atari. Once there I used a program called ATR2DISK to expand the ATR image into a diskette the Atari could use. I believe the ATR2DISK program was written by Tom Hunt who runs the Closer to Home Atari site.

 

 

It was at this link I believe: ftp://ftp.spudster.org//pub/Atari/CTH/Uti...rs/ATR2DISK.COM

 

Fletch

 

The problem is I do not have a terminal program on the Atari end. I got a reply to a post I made that indicated I could type in a small basic program on the Atari called miniterm and from there can work out a way to get software across but not sure yet exactly how that will work.

 

The ATR2Disk program lets me write an ATR image file to 5.25" disk on my PC that is then usable on a real Atari? If so will it work with a 1.2MB drive on the PC?

 

Thank you

[Urchlay]

Here's an idea that may or may not be practical:

 

On the Windows machine, run an Atari emulator (Atari800Winplus, probably). Set the emulator up so the serial port on the PC is used for the R: device (not sure which emulator(s) support this though)...

 

On both the emulator and the real Atari, run the original Diskcomm program (the one that transfers disk across the serial port, not the one that expands .DCM files)

 

Now on the emulator, load an .ATR image as D2:, and on the Atari, insert a blank floppy... and tell Diskcomm to send (on the PC) and receive (on the Atari).

 

About the atr2disk thing: I think that's a program that runs on the Atari, reads a .ATR file from an Atari disk, and writes the contents to another disk... the thing you were asking about (writing Atari disks directly on the PC's 5 1/4" drive) is possible, with some limitations. I don't remember the name of the software, but I do remember it was only possible to write double-density images (not useful if all you have is an unexpanded 1050). Back about 10 years ago, I got it to work exactly once...

[+Larry]

My goal is to take .ATR images and have them written to real Atari disks via my 800 XL. Here is what I am working with.

 

I have an Atari 800 XL, 1050 Disk Drive, 850 Interface, Null Modem Cable connected to the 850 Interface and to my Windows XP computer's serial port and a copy of both Atari Dos 3 and Smartdos 6.1 for software on the Atari 800 XL. I also have Atari 1030 Modem but it's not hooked up.

 

I believe my biggest problem is that I do not have a terminal program on the Atari side of things. I tried the APE software package but it appears it wants to work via an SIO2PC type cable and not a direct serial port interface.

 

Is there a program out there that will allow me to transfer disk images from the Windows system to the Atari and then write disk images onto the 1050 drive without having software initially on the Atari side of things? I know that for the Amiga and Apple II series of computers I found programs that did the same thing I want to do here (For both of these platforms the software did an initial bootstrap off the serial port and created a program disk on the Apple & Amiga for use to transfer disk images)

 

Hope this all makes sense. I did read the different FAQ's and Googled many different search terms but am now at the point where I felt I could ask for help.

 

I know I can buy software and an SIO2PC cable but money is tight and I have plenty of blank floppy disks to use and really prefer to have my collections as "vintage" as possible.

 

Thank you

 

First, I understand what you want to do, and it is possible, although not very practical. I have never heard of a program such as you describe for the Atari that would "do a bootstrap off the serial port." I'm going to try to talk you out of this idea, but do read on...

 

There are lots of terminal programs that will serve on the Atari-side. But since you have no method of transferring it to the Atari, someone will need to send you a disk with terminal programs on it, or you will need to type one in from a listing. Listings of simple terminal programs can be found at several magazine archives. Antic, Analog, probably Page 6 (UK). You can *type one of these in that allows downloads* and then transfer via null modem setting your PC as the HOST and the Atari as the terminal. For a BASIC type-in program, you may get *maybe* 1200 Baud. The initial transfer should be a *better* Atari terminal program, preferably in machine language, so you can get some better throughput. Even with a good ML program such as BobTerm, it is not possible to get better than 9600 Baud out of an 850 interface. You may be only able to get 4800. So if you are doing mass transfers, be prepared to cool your heels while you are doing the transfers.

 

Now, you have another problem -- most "90k" ATR images will not fit onto a 90K single-density disk -- they are slightly too big. So you will need to download an image onto a 130K enhanced density disk. Then you need another program to strip out the ATR header bytes so that the 90K image will fit on the 90K disk. This will take at least two disk swaps on your XL/1050. This also means that you will need an Atari Dos that supports enhanced density. I'm not sure if SmartDos does or not, but I don't remember it having ED capability. (?) If not, then you need to get Dos 2.5 or probably a better idea MyDos. Widely available as ATR's, but still with the "chicken and egg" caveat.

 

Your (really good) alternative to this is to buy, borrow, or make an SIO2PC cable, which is also an excellent long-term investment *if* you intend to be in this for the long-haul. You don't need to spend a lot of money on an interface, and in fact you can probably get or make a good one including the SIO cable for $20 or less. (In the long-term, an AtariMax dual interface is a very good investment, but the dual interfaces are a little more expensive.) Now you are in business -- there are two excellent programs for a PC with XP -- APE and Atari810. Both of these would serve your transfer needs well.

 

Good luck,

Larry

Edited February 17, 2008 by Larry

[mrnukem]

Thank you all for the replies. From this post and one I made on an Atari usenet group it's clear my best bet is to stop being a cheap bastard and buy a SIO2PC interface cable which I did this evening from Atarimax via e-bay.

 

Thank you again for the information

Edited February 18, 2008 by mrnukem

[1050]

My goal is to take .ATR images and have them written to real Atari disks via my 800 XL.

You can write ATR files to real 180K disks using a 360K drive on your PC with WriteATR but it will require going an extra mile with a 1.2 mb drive. It should work but I would only attempt it with first bulk erased disks that are then formatted on the PC only. And then you can't write 90K or 130K ATRs but only 180K ones so you will be really limited in what you can collect(?). And as Urchlay mentioned, your 1050 has to have the US Doubler installed in it (or Happy, or?) so that it can also read/write 180K DD disks as well. Still it might be a way to jump start your process? You should be able to use a Windows98 boot disk to supply enough MS-DOS to run WriteATR even on your XP machine?

 

I believe my biggest problem is that I do not have a terminal program on the Atari side of things.

I'm thinking that it may not be really needed as such. The 850 has a built in R: handler that can be made to auto-insert itself into the handler table and it might suffice for Ken Sider's Diskformer program that will take a modem supplied file via the R: device and write the ATR directly but a word of warning about Diskformer should be heeded here like the gospel - Diskformer is a lousy formatter in that it is mostly confused about exactly which format command info to actually send to the 1050 to get the proper job done. So much so, that when ever I have to use Diskformer, I take very extra pains to format the disk properly in MyDOS beforehand to the exact format required and I never allow Diskformer to do the format for itself. Thank goodness Ken had the forsight to include a prompt around a Diskformer format or the program would be worthless to me.

 

But in order to do this you will still need DOS running on your Atari first to format disks and then load Diskformer and whatever R: handler file that might work with Diskformer's Modem input option. I do not use the Modem file input mode as I have a 1 meg ramdisk on my 800XL which is where I store my .ATR and .XFD files for converson into real Atari disks. In other words, I've never done it the way you need it done so I'll not be much help except to say that the Diskformer program is supposed to be able to do it. Since it writes the ATR data out in real time there really would be no memory issues with an ATR file slightly bigger than the actual disk being written. Data transfer takes place in segments and can be viewed as it's written out to disk.

 

I do my PC to Atari file transfers using AtariDsk and a Windows98 driven 360K 5 1/4" drive on my PC. It works so good I have no need to put together the MAX232 SIO2PC parts I bought so long ago. I also need my US Doubled 1050 in order to use this method of PC to Atari file transfers. So both WriteATR and AtariDsk methods require two slightly rare disk drives, one for the PC and one for the Atari.

 

I tried the APE software package but it appears it wants to work via an SIO2PC type cable and not a direct serial port interface..

Yes, as does the original and free SIO2PC program both of which can boot a blank and dumb Atari system with whatever DOS you want and then get it to write ATRs directly that can then boot the Atari for real - just what you wanted but via the SIO2PC cable ONLY.

 

I know I can buy software and an SIO2PC cable but money is tight and I have plenty of blank floppy disks to use and really prefer to have my collections as "vintage" as possible.

You lost me at "vintage", me no have clue as to what is meant by that exactly or what you mean by collections either. I'm only aware of massive amounts of ATR files of mostly repeats it seems and I for one will never have enough disks to ever get thru even a tenth of one of those ATR collections. I prefer to keep the ATR files on PC media and only rarely convert them onto a real Atari disk anyway. If I had a SIO2PC cable myself I would convert them much more there is no doubt.

 

To sum it all up, you will either need 2 slightly rare disk drives which will cost real money or one SIO2PC cable at next to nothing cost if you can build it yourself and considering that the SIO2PC cable is so easy to use you really have no choice at all here. My only excuse is the fact that I had those drives on hand to begin with and thus no need to ever build a SIO2PC cable in the first place. Which is really the only valid scenario for not using SIO2PC for PC to Atari file transfers.

 

I'll take that back. I started PC to Atari file transfers with my Happy 1050 drive for which there is a program that will read/write MS-DOS 180K disks - but you still need both slightly rare drives for each side. The Happy file utility is very rough and not friendly at all, where AtariDsk is a breeze compared to that Happy program for sure.

[kenfused]

Unfortunately diskformer was written at a time I didn't have info about a few things (atr header format, xmodem crc) back when most info came from comp.sys.atari.8bit and maybe a bbs or two, but it served my purposes at the time. One thing bad about the file transfer is that it only does xmodem-chksum which many programs will fall back to, but it incorrectly responds to an xmodem crc request. This should only effect sending an atari disk I would think and not receiving it.