Atari Basic Language Cartridge REV. C

[Sean39]

Hi everyone

 

I did notice something very interesting about the Basic Language Cartridge REV. A If uses two chips to come up with 8K of

ROM memory for the original Basic language. Now in the REV. C it has the 16K Rom Board in it, but it only uses half the board with one

chip for 8K instead of 16K of ROM memory. My Question is Why did not ATARI Take Advantage of this. They could have stuck the second chip

in the cartridge and had 16K of memory to work with and improve their Basic Language for this missing commands and statements in the original Basic.

Well I think that was a dumb move on Atari part when they could have improved their basic language. I find myself writing more Machine Language

routines to make up for the lack of Atari basic complex graphics and colors in high res. screen modes. Basic also runs very slow when using moving

graphics in making games that due to the recall in the memory mapping. Well I think Atari could have taken that extra 8K found in the 16K ROM

Cartridges and improved on the 8K Basic Language. What are your thoughts on this????? Turbo basic only works on the 800XL machines...

 

 

sean39

I am talking about Atari 400 and 800 machines

[+bcombee]

graphics in making games that due to the recall in the memory mapping. Well I think Atari could have taken that extra 8K found in the 16K ROM

Cartridges and improved on the 8K Basic Language. What are your thoughts on this????? Turbo basic only works on the 800XL machines...

 

Atari already made an enhanced BASIC on cartridge -- Microsoft BASIC II was in cart form and had lots of extensions. They were selling that, so I suspect they didn't want to enhance standard BASIC much. Changing the original Atari Basic would also have meant risking incompatibility with BASIC programs that had already been written for the system.

[1050]

The main selling point for Atari's Basic was precisely that it is ONLY 8k. Back when 16k of RAM was also something to puff out your chest about and hurtful pricey as well, a small Basic package allowed the maximum use of that pricey RAM.

 

The list price for your 800 sweetheart would have gotten you a very good used car back then too. Just because today you came across one cartridge setup that Atari found to be the cheapest way to get 8k of code onto the street that just so happens to be able to hold another 8k of code doesn't mean that it is missing any code at all. Or that we could put it in there, or should, or even would want to.

 

Basic ruled back then, and Atari Basic ruled the small machine market back then because it was the smallest Basic package. And then you come along and want to rewrite history or something, it is simply not possible to have it both ways. Perhaps you forget/didn't know about your roots? Be proud of Atari's 8k Basic package and use ML when ever you need to get the little things done your way, just like the rest of us, BTW. Part of the challenge in any programing is to get done what needs done with the highest efficiency.

 

Others DID come along and write more powerful Basic packages. IIRC, Microsoft's first Basic package for Atari runs on the 800/400 just for one example, it's a protected floppy distribution. Microsoft's second Atari Basic release was for XL/XE and was a cartridge, again IIRC. I find it enjoyably ironical that on an Atari you can have it any way you want it, there are so many DOSes, so many Basics, so many flavors of so much software and all of it precisely because there is room and it's easy to program for in both Basic and ML but also C, Fortan, Action, whatever... We even have Atari unique programming languages like Action - it's an awesome platform, embrace it and/or write it better yourself. Dozens upon dozens have taken up the same challenge, a few even succeeded.

 

Pessimist sees the glass half empty,

Optimist sees the glass half full,

Engineer sees that the glass is twice as big as it needs to be.

[Sean39]

Hi

 

I see what you mean. My dad worked for Atari and he passed away,so I never did get to ask him why they never added to the Basic language. They

could have kept the same Basic Language and added sub routines to it. This would add the commands like ELSE,TRON,TROFF,LEFT$,RIGHT$,MID$,RAND,

CLS,AND,CLEAR,NOR....well anyways it really does not matter since you can still write some pretty good programs still on the Atari 800. I know the original

price on that computer was $1199.00 when it came out. I started with the Sinclair ZX80 that sold for $199.00 in 1977. That was my first computer and

it was really limitted in basic programing,and not the ZX81 which was more power full...Some people know the ZX81 by Timex Sinclair 1000,but I did

not get that computer because the Atari 800 had much more potential than that computer. My dad later went to work for GE then Raytheon.

I know the original 800 computers only came with 8K of RAM then later 16K of Ram. I have been letting my daughter use my computer and she is having

so much fun using it. I don't have my Sinclair any more but I still have all my books to it,and I also have all my atari books too. I know that everyone

has tried to make so many improvements to the Atari and that the only reason why I ask that question. Has anyone seen the 80 column expansion

board any where because I need one??????

 

 

sean39

[+bf2k+]

...

Has anyone seen the 80 column expansion

board any where because I need one??????

 

 

www.myatari.com has the Atari XEP80 for $40.

[Shamus]

OSS did what you're talking about with Basic XL/XE, though those probably don't work on the 400/800 series.

 

And I have to agree with 1050, Action! was/is an awesome language--it was the first language that I could actually do things that would require assembly language before. My only complaint was that it came out late in the 8-bit lifecycle.

[+Larry]

Hi

 

I see what you mean. My dad worked for Atari and he passed away,so I never did get to ask him why they never added to the Basic language. They

could have kept the same Basic Language and added sub routines to it. This would add the commands like ELSE,TRON,TROFF,LEFT$,RIGHT$,MID$,RAND,

CLS,AND,CLEAR,NOR....well anyways it really does not matter since you can still write some pretty good programs still on the Atari 800. I know the original

price on that computer was $1199.00 when it came out. I started with the Sinclair ZX80 that sold for $199.00 in 1977. That was my first computer and

it was really limitted in basic programing,and not the ZX81 which was more power full...Some people know the ZX81 by Timex Sinclair 1000,but I did

not get that computer because the Atari 800 had much more potential than that computer. My dad later went to work for GE then Raytheon.

I know the original 800 computers only came with 8K of RAM then later 16K of Ram. I have been letting my daughter use my computer and she is having

so much fun using it. I don't have my Sinclair any more but I still have all my books to it,and I also have all my atari books too. I know that everyone

has tried to make so many improvements to the Atari and that the only reason why I ask that question. Has anyone seen the 80 column expansion

board any where because I need one??????

sean39

 

If you have and like the 800, you might put in a search notification on eBay for a "Bit-3" board for the 800. It goes in the 3rd memory slot of the 800 and provides a *dynamite* 80-column display on a composite monitor, and perhaps using S-video on a more modern TV. Of course that means that if you still want 48K, you must replace or upgrade memory card #2 to 32K. XEP-80 is OK. You may or may not be able to get a suitable display device to use with it if you have NTSC gear. Dunno about PAL. XEP-80's were available at B&C computervisions. Look on eBay. They have an eBay store and an on-line catalog at www.myatari.com

 

 

Although Frost Basic for the 800 does lack the LEFT$, RIGHT$, etc. of MSB, it is much improved over Atari 8K. Widely available as a disk image.

 

First suggestions: get a disk drive if you don't already own one. 1050 or Indus is good. 5-1/4" to start with, since 5-1/4" is the lowest common denominator of disks/images.

Second suggestion: get an SIO2PC cable to use with a PC. There are *gigabytes* of Atari disk images available. The SIO2PC cable and APE or Atari810 is the key to unlocking it all.

 

-Larry

[+bcombee]

OSS did what you're talking about with Basic XL/XE, though those probably don't work on the 400/800 series.

 

Basic XL works great on the Atari 800. OSS used a bankswitching scheme to fit a lot more language into the same 8K footprint.

 

According to Antic at http://www.atarimagazines.com/v4n9/basicxe.html, Basic XE requires a 64K or larger XL/XE computer, as it uses RAM underneath the OS.

[Fuji-Man]

I'm sure a lot of people would like a few BIT-3 boards, but they are rare as hen's teeth.

 

Is it possible to make a batch?

 

FujiMan

 

If you have and like the 800, you might put in a search notification on eBay for a "Bit-3" board for the 800. It goes in the 3rd memory slot of the 800 and provides a *dynamite* 80-column display on a composite monitor, and perhaps using S-video on a more modern TV.

 

-Larry

[+Larry]

I'm sure a lot of people would like a few BIT-3 boards, but they are rare as hen's teeth.

 

Is it possible to make a batch?

 

FujiMan

 

If you have and like the 800, you might put in a search notification on eBay for a "Bit-3" board for the 800. It goes in the 3rd memory slot of the 800 and provides a *dynamite* 80-column display on a composite monitor, and perhaps using S-video on a more modern TV.

 

-Larry

 

Way beyond my skills. I got mine on eBay already in an 800 for about $60-70 IIRC. It certainly wasn't a bunch of money, and I've seen them pop up since then. But yes, they are quite hard to find. The problem that I would see right off is that there is probably one 800 for every ten (or more) XL/XE's, so it's an extremely small "market." OTOH, if a reasonably simple 80-column device could be made for the XL/XE and could be adapted to the 800, that might be a feasible scenario. But in the end, you end up with an 80-column board, and pretty much no software to use with it.

 

-Larry

[Sean39]

Hi everyone

 

Now how well does the Atari XEP80 work???? I found Atari Word Writer 80 on disk, and I am going to use that for word proccessing.

I guess that I will stick with ATARI BASIC LANGUAGE Rev. C 1985 version........I even have both books that go with that cartridge. It does work

Quite well on the Atari 800 computer.....I have 48K of memory right now, but I will have to find a 32K card to open up that last slot for the

XEP80 card. Anyways Thanks for all the help on this.

 

 

sean39

[+Stephen]

Hi everyone

 

Now how well does the Atari XEP80 work???? I found Atari Word Writer 80 on disk, and I am going to use that for word proccessing.

I guess that I will stick with ATARI BASIC LANGUAGE Rev. C 1985 version........I even have both books that go with that cartridge. It does work

Quite well on the Atari 800 computer.....I have 48K of memory right now, but I will have to find a 32K card to open up that last slot for the

XEP80 card. Anyways Thanks for all the help on this.

 

 

sean39

 

Sean, the XEP80 won't take a slot in your 800. It interfaces via joystick port 2. It's not a great interface, it is slow. Somewhere (I think on Mathias' website) exist drivers that can make it work at 9600 baud when using BobTerm. I have found the XEP80 to be most useful when used on an XE series machine with the Sparta DOS X cart. There is a parrallel printer port on the back of the XEP80 as well - I have not used that feature, but Atari Writer 80 has an option to use a printer connected to that port.

 

I got my 1st XEP80 just a year back. I think I got it from B&C. It was still new in box. I almost felt bad about taking it out of the box, but curiosity got the best of me. I guess I like i enough to keep it hooked up all the time (just rarely used)

 

Stephen Anderson