Looking for musicians

[SebRmv]

Hello,

 

I am working on a reloaded version of the Atomic game

and I am looking for a musician.

If you want to participate, please MP me.

The music format is Protracker 4/6/8 voices.

 

Cheers.

[Gorf]

Hello,

 

I am working on a reloaded version of the Atomic game

and I am looking for a musician.

If you want to participate, please MP me.

The music format is Protracker 4/6/8 voices.

 

Cheers.

 

You might want to specify . mod or .xm or whatever file output

your player will use. Then you give yourself a wider chance of

finding someone.

 

[SebRmv]

Hello,

 

I am working on a reloaded version of the Atomic game

and I am looking for a musician.

If you want to participate, please MP me.

The music format is Protracker 4/6/8 voices.

 

Cheers.

 

You might want to specify . mod or .xm or whatever file output

your player will use. Then you give yourself a wider chance of

finding someone.

 

 

Thus it's .MOD files.

 

Thanks for the advice

[Gorf]

Hello,

 

I am working on a reloaded version of the Atomic game

and I am looking for a musician.

If you want to participate, please MP me.

The music format is Protracker 4/6/8 voices.

 

Cheers.

 

You might want to specify . mod or .xm or whatever file output

your player will use. Then you give yourself a wider chance of

finding someone.

 

 

Thus it's .MOD files.

 

Thanks for the advice

 

No problem.

[Mark Wolfe]

Have you found anyone yet? I may be interested, I'm a producer/musician in the Philadelphia area. At one time I was a member of the Game Audio Network Guild but could not find any work on the east coast.

 

I work primarily with Digital Performer and a slew of real and virtual instruments. I can provide a number of formats as I think most of the ones mentioned above have converters from either either midi or audio.

 

I would be willing to work for barter instead of money. I can do sound foley and effects as well.

 

 

edit: does anyone know if ProTracker will work in an Amiga emulated environment? Any Mac/ Amiga people out there?

 

looks like midi to /mod conversion can be problematic, not impossible but problematic. What is the reason for not using digital audio in the game? will it be a cart or a CD? I'm sorry I'm not too familiar with Jaguar homebrew.

Edited May 16, 2008 by Mark_Wolfe

[so_tough!]

I would have been interested( I make experimental electronics), but I have no idea what pro tracker and some of these other terms mean..

 

edit-Ok I looked it up, but why does it have to be pro tracker? I have no idea when it comes to putting music etc in games, can't you just have a wav file and then convert to whatever output file you need it to be?

 

Technicalities have never been my specialty!

Edited May 16, 2008 by so_tough!

[SebRmv]

Hi,

 

first of all, as Atomic reloaded will be a free release,

it is a "just for fun" (and glory ) contribution (no money there).

 

The available memory for the music is very short:

that's why Amiga Protracker module (up to 6 voices) will fit perfectly.

 

An amiga module file is somehow similar to MIDI files except

that instead of using MID predefined instruments, you

provide the digitized samples that will play the role of the instruments

(hope I am clear here).

 

See also there:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Module_file

 

WAV files won't do the job because of the constraint of available memory.

Edited May 16, 2008 by SebRmv

[Christos]

Can't you stream from the CD?

[Mark Wolfe]

Hi,

 

first of all, as Atomic reloaded will be a free release,

it is a "just for fun" (and glory ) contribution (no money there).

 

The available memory for the music is very short:

that's why Amiga Protracker module (up to 6 voices) will fit perfectly.

 

An amiga module file is somehow similar to MIDI files except

that instead of using MID predefined instruments, you

provide the digitized samples that will play the role of the instruments

(hope I am clear here).

 

See also there:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Module_file

 

WAV files won't do the job because of the constraint of available memory.

 

 

I definitely understand the two points you make, one regarding money, I wouldn't ask for any... and I am well versed in "tracker" style composing, the problem for me would be changing my platform so emulation of an Amiga on a Mac G5 would be the only way to go. I've only ever emulated an Amiga for the games. I Just recently sold my Amiga 500 on ebay but I do have a commodore 128, but again, I've only ever used it for games and it doesn't have a MIDI interface which I would need to compose. I have been wanting for a long time an Atari 1040 JUST for music and I may be encouraged to go down that route or perhaps someone can make a donation to me of a 1040 for this project.

 

I guess I'm still curious though as to the format of the game, is it on a cart or a cd? and if it is cd, then the last question about streaming applies. I've certainly played Jaguar games that must have had some sort of streaming in place.

 

edit: does anyone know if there is a tracker style program for a Mac Plus/SE running system 7? I have one and I have a MIDI interface for it as I used to use it back in the day for composing.

 

edit 2: hmmmm very interesting: http://nitrotracker.tobw.net/ only problem is I am not fond of step style composing, I prefer entering in notes in real time from an actual keyboard but I could handle this easily. I have a DS with a backup cart so i can run this. I've also read there is a tracker program for the PSP which I could also run but I'd prefer to go the real musician route using a midi controller but if that didn't pan out.... hmmmmm

 

edit 3: HOLEEE CRAP: http://www.electrobee.com/product_info.php...;products_id=20 this is amazing, midi in and out on a ds !!! the only thing I can't tell is if it has storage for software or is that run from slot 2?? hmmmm

Edited May 16, 2008 by Mark_Wolfe

[SebRmv]

Can't you stream from the CD?

 

In theory, I probably could. But for the moment, I do not know how to do that.

 

The release medium will be a binary file to use with BJL setup & encrypted CD.

[Mark Wolfe]

Can't you stream from the CD?

 

In theory, I probably could. But for the moment, I do not know how to do that.

 

The release medium will be a binary file to use with BJL setup & encrypted CD.

 

 

hmmm, ok. well after researching many options, it seems I'm back to the drawing board of trying to find an old school approach using either an emulated amiga or my Mac SE or a donated Atari 1040ST

 

I need to talk to my buddy Curt Vendel about how music production was done for the Jaguar just for my own edification and curiosity as this thread has made me intensely curious about it.

 

Exactly how much memory do you have to work with in this project? Are the sounds completely self contained or is the Jaguar internal hardware accessed at all... I have no knowledge of the inner workings of the Jaguar. Knowing more technical specifics would help a great deal.

 

 

edit: well, I heard back from Curt about some of my questions. The audio chip in the Jag is "JERRY" , I'm sure everyone here but me knew that already. Man, it seems developing homebrew for the jag is a huge undertaking. So from that information I'm assuming the memory alloted for music is just going to be the MOD files themselves. The question I'm waiting to get an answer to from Curt, or anyone here is how does one create music for the jag and know with relative certainty what it will sound like? Are there JERRY chip emulators? is there another chip that sounds pretty much like it that I can emulate? Perhaps a virtual instrument that has sampled Jag sounds in it? I must say this has gotten me intensely curious at the very least.

Edited May 16, 2008 by Mark_Wolfe

[Christos]

While I may not know much about the jag... a mod is a mod. It should sound pretty much the same where ever you play it. Be it on an STE, Amiga, Falcon, PC, Mac.

But musicians are strange people!

[SebRmv]

While I may not know much about the jag... a mod is a mod. It should sound pretty much the same where ever you play it. Be it on an STE, Amiga, Falcon, PC, Mac.

But musicians are strange people!

 

Hopefully this is true

[Christos]

Well, just tested the tempest mods, on my falcon and falcamp (dspmod) and pc and winamp... The only difference I can pinpoint is due to the bass boost on the falcon (but playing a bit with the subwoofer kind of gave the same result).

[Mark Wolfe]

Well, just tested the tempest mods, on my falcon and falcamp (dspmod) and pc and winamp... The only difference I can pinpoint is due to the bass boost on the falcon (but playing a bit with the subwoofer kind of gave the same result).

 

 

Ok, so the sound palette is the same then? My experience with production never included mod writing as we had a very sophisticated midi studio in the 80s and used Mark of the Unicorn's Performer program... we basically had the same set up that George "The Fat Man" Sanger had so we had no need for the more primitive Commodore and Amiga set ups that were out at the same time. We also did not do Game music production so really, I'm somewhat out of the loop [no pun intended] on MODs

 

Like you say, a MOD is a MOD so goes MIDI. the two are very closely related but MIDI is just so much more versatile, but it can do the exact same things.

 

I'm curious if there are MIDI playback abilities within the "JERRY" chip. My guess is there MUST be and that this would allow for more sophistication in the musical arrangements, but emulating that chip is what is required for that to work. I know how to do it for the GameBoy, the NES, the SNES and the N64. There are so many music tools out there for those consoles. it seems not so much for the Jag, but I'm learning.

 

I'm currently doing a ton of research on this topic over the weekend. By Monday I should be up to speed.

 

thanks for the input and advice, keep it coming

[Christos]

Well, someone more experienced can correct me but in most times a mod is made out of small samples which are being replayed at the described frequency. Midi on the other hand is just a set of instructions passed to an instrument. So for Seb to use midi he would need to emulate the instrument while on mod just to replay the samples.

[Paolo]

...And this thing would be great!

"turn your Jag in a GS/GM MIDI player!"

How cool is that, along the CD+G capability?

[Mark Wolfe]

...And this thing would be great!

"turn your Jag in a GS/GM MIDI player!"

How cool is that, along the CD+G capability?

 

 

where did you find that? is this for real or a wish ? it would be cool!

 

 

 

to Christos: I'm fairly certain mods just contain the playback data, which is why they are so small. but again, I'm out of my element. Perhaps they can contain both? I have transferred MODs over to MIDI files many times and all they contain is instrument data. the only problem with a straight transfer is, MODs do not have a way to communicate through midi what the tracks are supposed to be, so a drum track might play back on a piano.

 

the JERRY chip contains all sorts of powerful FM synthesis capability so it would seem silly to use available game ram on samples when the sound chip already gives you all you need, which brings me back to all my original questions regarding how to emulate the chip... I'm currently tracking that down.

Edited May 16, 2008 by Mark_Wolfe

[Christos]

I will quote from the alt.binaries.sounds.mods FAQ v2.6 part 1/2

 

Modules are digital music files, made up of a set of samples (the instruments)

and sequencing information, telling a mod player when to play which sample on

which track at what pitch, optionally performing an effect like vibrato, for

example. Thus mods are different from pure sample files such as WAV or AU,

which contain no sequencing information, and MIDI files, which do not include

any custom samples/instruments. Mods are extremely popular in the demo world

and offer a way of making music of an acceptable level of quality rather

cheaply. With the advent of high-quality sound hardware, new generations of

mods may even rise to a sound quality nearing that of professional equipment.

 

I know I am way out of my league here since all I know is the code to call mod replay but it seems to me like to do what you are thinking there need to be some samples (instruments) stored somewhere in the chip. This is a fundamental difference between sound chips like the YM 2149 or the SID and Paula. Why do I post here? Well I am thinking of getting a jag (missed one going for 30 Euros yesterday ) and do the bjl mod. Then will try test my ST code there, maybe port STOTro .

[Mark Wolfe]

I will quote from the alt.binaries.sounds.mods FAQ v2.6 part 1/2

 

Modules are digital music files, made up of a set of samples (the instruments)

and sequencing information, telling a mod player when to play which sample on

which track at what pitch, optionally performing an effect like vibrato, for

example. Thus mods are different from pure sample files such as WAV or AU,

which contain no sequencing information, and MIDI files, which do not include

any custom samples/instruments. Mods are extremely popular in the demo world

and offer a way of making music of an acceptable level of quality rather

cheaply. With the advent of high-quality sound hardware, new generations of

mods may even rise to a sound quality nearing that of professional equipment.

 

I know I am way out of my league here since all I know is the code to call mod replay but it seems to me like to do what you are thinking there need to be some samples (instruments) stored somewhere in the chip. This is a fundamental difference between sound chips like the YM 2149 or the SID and Paula. Why do I post here? Well I am thinking of getting a jag (missed one going for 30 Euros yesterday ) and do the bjl mod. Then will try test my ST code there, maybe port STOTro .

 

you know based on that description it sounds like we're both right and that a MOD can have BOTH.

 

It's my understanding from SebRmv that the PAULA chip is very similar to the JERRY chip and that he has a way of emulating it.

 

can you tell me what the BJL mod is? links? instructions? descriptions? I'm way out of my league on the Jag so any info would be greatly appreciated. I have a nice Jaguar and am looking for the CD add on.

Edited May 16, 2008 by Mark_Wolfe

[Zerosquare]

the JERRY chip contains all sorts of powerful FM synthesis capability so it would seem silly to use available game ram on samples when the sound chip already gives you all you need

Actually, it doesn't. It's just a general-purpose microprocessor with some specialized instructions added, and a few basic waveforms (sine, noise...) in ROM. All the synthesis is done in software. Regarding FM, Atari did make a software FM synth which was used in some games, but it doesn't sound really great (it's reminiscent of the OPL2/3 chips used in Adlib and early Sound Blaster cards, which never sounded good to me). And as you have guessed, there isn't an easy way to emulate it anyway, so it'd be very cumbersome for you to work with it. A .MOD (or another similar format) will sound much better and be a lot easier to edit on your computer.

[Mark Wolfe]

the JERRY chip contains all sorts of powerful FM synthesis capability so it would seem silly to use available game ram on samples when the sound chip already gives you all you need

Actually, it doesn't. It's just a general-purpose microprocessor with some specialized instructions added, and a few basic waveforms (sine, noise...) in ROM. All the synthesis is done in software. Regarding FM, Atari did make a software FM synth which was used in some games, but it doesn't sound really great (it's reminiscent of the OPL2/3 chips used in Adlib and early Sound Blaster cards, which never sounded good to me). And as you have guessed, there isn't an easy way to emulate it anyway, so it'd be very cumbersome for you to work with it. A .MOD (or another similar format) will sound much better and be a lot easier to edit on your computer.

 

 

wow, thanks for that info, that helps a great deal. It seems the documents I read on wiki greatly overstated the "power" of the JERRY chip lol. seems to be a pattern in the way the Jag was marketed.

 

I will definitely delve in to the whole MOD production thing then but it does seem counter-intuitive to have the sound come from the game memory and not the sound chip

 

I was actually hopeful to be able to produce the mods on my Nintendo DS but it seems the serial port adaptor that would give it midi in and out is completely sold out. That would have been awesome to do and create and upload my own samples.

 

I'm going to have to be very conservative with the samples given the limited amount of memory.

[Zerosquare]

wow, thanks for that info, that helps a great deal. It seems the documents I read on wiki greatly overstated the "power" of the JERRY chip lol. seems to be a pattern in the way the Jag was marketed.

No, really ?

 

Yes, there are tons of "Jaguar system specs" on the web that are just plain wrong, e.g. stating "14 FM voices" when in fact, there are only two hardware, digital voices : left and right. Atari marketing is partly to blame, they liked to throw confusing statements about the Jaguar. For example, they said it could handle 850 million pixels per second... it's true, but only if you use 100% of the bus bandwidth (which is completely impossible in practice) and limit yourself to 2-bit pixels, i.e only 4 different colors on the screen

 

I was actually hopeful to be able to produce the mods on my Nintendo DS but it seems the serial port adaptor that would give it midi in and out is completely sold out. That would have been awesome to do and create and upload my own samples.

You can always use a tracker program for your Mac such as PlayerPro, it'll make things much easier.

Another solution, if you have a hardware sampler or the equivalent in software, is to compose your music with a MIDI sequencer (keeping MOD limitations in mind : 8-note polyphony, limited effects, "small" samples...) and then convert it to MOD.

 

I'm going to have to be very conservative with the samples given the limited amount of memory.

Well, it depends on how much memory SebRmv allocates you.

The modules used in Tempest 2000 are only 100~150 Ko each, and they sound awesome !

[Zerosquare]

Oh, by the way :

can you tell me what the BJL mod is? links? instructions? descriptions? I'm way out of my league on the Jag so any info would be greatly appreciated. I have a nice Jaguar and am looking for the CD add on.

We had a related topic not too long ago : http://www.atariage.com/forums/index.php?s...=125020&hl=.

[Mark Wolfe]

Oh, by the way :

can you tell me what the BJL mod is? links? instructions? descriptions? I'm way out of my league on the Jag so any info would be greatly appreciated. I have a nice Jaguar and am looking for the CD add on.

We had a related topic not too long ago : http://www.atariage.com/forums/index.php?s...=125020&hl=.

 

 

some really gread advice and info, thank you!! I had planned on using some sort of Mac tracker, i didn't realize you could compose in player pro.

 

I do have a ton of software synths and samplers at my disposal and was planning on using a midi controller but I think I need to compose in the MOD format to begin with just to save any translation problems

 

Do you have any links to 100-150k MOD files I can listen to? That is exactly the size I have to work with.

 

are there programs that can deconstruct a MOD file and extract and or replace the samples? I DO have a 2GHz windows machine at my disposal as well.