What shoud I pay for an Atari 400?

[Waterborn]

I saw this post on my local Craigslist. What would you pay for this lot?

 

Full blown Atari 400 with a finished wooden cabinet included! You can lock up and keep the Atari safely enclosed. The system and all included accesories ALL work perfectly.

 

Even if you have no interest in using the system, this is a great investment and will definately be worth a fortune someday. Unfortunately, I do not have the space for this, and I have to get rid of it.

 

Here is the complete list of what is included:

 

*Program Recorder

 

*Joystick

 

*2 Paddle Controllers

 

*Signal Converter

 

*Games:

 

Popeye

Galaxian

Choplifter

Frogger

Shamus

Centipede

Computer Chess

Donkey Kong

Ms. Pac Man

Pole Position

Robotron

Dig Dug

Missle Command

Jungle Hunt

 

***Please note: there are additional games that are not listed here, but I do not have the games in front of me so I cannot double check right now. Can update list in a day or so.

[Rybags]

It would probably fetch a bit here.

 

Prices have rocketed - someone sold an 800 and 800XL plus games and other stuff on our eBay recently, last I saw it was over $300.

 

I had my eye on a 130XE but it went for over $50 including postage - a bit rich for me. I want to pick up just systems only, not bothered with games.

 

But, anyway for your lot, anything under $50 could be classed as a bargain.

[carmel_andrews]

I don't think that US companies made many cassette games...Since you setup includes a 'program recorder' (assuming a 410), you'll be better looking at sub 64k (non xl/xe) cassette games from the UK/europe

 

There in lies another problem because of the video timing differences betw. PAL and NTSC i don't know which UK/Euro cassette games will work on US Atari 400 systems

 

You be better of investing in an 810 or 1050 disk drive and and sip2pc cable and have access to 1000's of downloadable ATR's/XEX's etc that you can convert to Atari file or whole disk format (including most if not all the classic US titles from the early/mid 80's)

[MEtalGuy66]

five bucks...

[carmel_andrews]

Money must be a bit tight where you are metalguy....5 USD would'nt even cover postage (even if it's posting w/i the US)

 

this is what i'd think was reasonable

 

stock 400 (unupgraded) 15GBP

 

400/800 upto 48k (25-30 pound)

 

600xl (unupgraded) (15GBP)

 

800xl/130xe etc (30 plus)

 

Prices excluded P&P

[mimo]

Money must be a bit tight where you are metalguy....5 USD would'nt even cover postage (even if it's posting w/i the US)

 

this is what i'd think was reasonable

 

stock 400 (unupgraded) 15GBP

 

400/800 upto 48k (25-30 pound)

 

600xl (unupgraded) (15GBP)

 

800xl/130xe etc (30 plus)

 

Prices excluded P&P

You are kidding!

400s on ebay UK un-boxed, 16K and probably a nice yellow shade get about £25. A boxed 16K 400 something in the region of £60+ depending on condition. 800 boxed about £50, unboxed £35. A 48k 400 is a pretty rare beast to find, so I wont even hazard a guess

800XL £10

130XE £15-20

600XL yep you probably got that about right, but they dont come up very often

[MEtalGuy66]

He's not in the UK...

 

He's in the US...

 

Five Bucks...

[carmel_andrews]

Metalguy...If you charge the SAME RATES for doing repairs/servicing as you seem to do for trading used equipment...I might just consider re'locing to Houston...I'd get my Atari stuff serviced or repaired for Peanuts

[+Larry]

I'd go as high as $25 + postage. It's a toss-up to me whether the 400 or 600XL is the least valuable (i.e. worst) computer ever made by Atari. I'd probably have to go with the 400 due to it's "keyboard." I got a super-clean 800XL a few weeks ago for $25 + 15 shipping. I suspect there is a greater supply and therefore better prices on Atari items here in the U.S.

 

-Larry

[WizWor]

People are bidding more on ebay as we speak than anyone here has suggested this package might be worth. Probably because most here would not own much of what is on the list. I think the carts -- if the games are carts -- are worth $5 each and the controllers are worth $10 each. So, if you are shopping for those things, I think you'd pay ~$90 before you were done. If you want a 410 recorder, that's going to cost $15 and I've never seen a 400 go for less than $30.

 

I'm just posting this because, if you pass on this system because you believe the numbers posted and you *really* want this stuff, you will not be able to buy it for the prices posted on this thread. Of course you have to decide what the package is worth to you.

 

For me, a 400 and a 410 is not worth anything. Of course, I have a bunch of atari hardware and maybe you don't. I think it would be worth $50 to be able to play all those games.

 

Then there's the cabinet...

 

Good luck!

[+bob1200xl]

I'd pay $5 for a complete 600XL - as many as I could get! They have PBIs where you can hang things - pretty easy to make a 512K machine and hang a CF card on the PBI buss.

 

You know, if you couldn't get a 1200XL...

 

Bob

 

 

 

 

I'd go as high as $25 + postage. It's a toss-up to me whether the 400 or 600XL is the least valuable (i.e. worst) computer ever made by Atari. I'd probably have to go with the 400 due to it's "keyboard." I got a super-clean 800XL a few weeks ago for $25 + 15 shipping. I suspect there is a greater supply and therefore better prices on Atari items here in the U.S.

 

-Larry

[MEtalGuy66]

I'm with Bob.. 600XLs rock.. Its just an 800XL, minus the memory and a bit of BAD video circuitry. The kewl thing about a 600XL is that you can put it on a standard desk, and have TONS of room behind it for a PBI setup. And since it has the XL PBI slot and the cart slot in the top, you dont even need an "extender board"..

 

My 1200XLs (with 130XE motherboards) need a DRAFTING TABLE to setup on becuause after the super deep 1200XL case, then the PBI extender, youve already "eaten up" 16 inches... A 600XL, on the other hand is 7 inches TOTAL to PLUG IN to the PBI device... And the keyboards they used on the 600XL are not bad at all...

[carmel_andrews]

Is the 600xl keyboard compatible with the 800xl (as the 600 has a smaller footprint)

 

did have a 600xl once...don't remember noticing any difference in the display output compared to it's big brother 800xl.... perhaps the bad video thing only affects NTSC systems

[Almost Rice]

did have a 600xl once...don't remember noticing any difference in the display output compared to it's big brother 800xl.... perhaps the bad video thing only affects NTSC systems

 

PAL systems have Video out. NTSC did not.

[MEtalGuy66]

Is the 600xl keyboard compatible with the 800xl (as the 600 has a smaller footprint)

 

did have a 600xl once...don't remember noticing any difference in the display output compared to it's big brother 800xl.... perhaps the bad video thing only affects NTSC systems

 

The NTSC 600XL doesnt have a monitor jack. It only has an RF modulator.. I was sayting that the video on the 800XL is not "that great" anywayze.. So the fact that the NTSC 600XL is missing the monitor jack is not that big of an issue. You can add compsite video and audio out with a very simple circuit, and the 800XL typically needs various "tweaks" to produce really clean composite video output anywayze..

[machf]

The mention of the 400 made me realize that I have one that belonged to a friend from the university inside a box here... he also gave me his old diskettes... I really must go through all that stuff.

 

Bummer, the 400 apparently has no power supply. At least, I can't find it together with the other stuff...

[carmel_andrews]

So...I guess that the back end of a 600xl and 800xl are different (600 is minus the video output)

 

bob1200 mentioed sticking 512k in a 600xl....Is the 600 circuit board big enough or was bob thinking on reducing the no. of ram chips and just r/w'ing them with the 7LS chip (if the 600 has one) or sticking in other one for addit. decoding

 

Additonally it seems that recently there's been reasonable interest in the PBI usage on the XL series...just curious as to why that is as i seem to recall that when these systems were current..there was either zero interest or very little interest in PBI usage on the XL series...only products i recall were MIO, Supra/KPI interface, Black box and the 1064 from Atari...in the UK we had the Yorkie external RAM upgrade...and that was pretty much about it

[MEtalGuy66]

So...I guess that the back end of a 600xl and 800xl are different (600 is minus the video output)

 

bob1200 mentioed sticking 512k in a 600xl....Is the 600 circuit board big enough or was bob thinking on reducing the no. of ram chips and just r/w'ing them with the 7LS chip (if the 600 has one) or sticking in other one for addit. decoding

 

Additonally it seems that recently there's been reasonable interest in the PBI usage on the XL series...just curious as to why that is as i seem to recall that when these systems were current..there was either zero interest or very little interest in PBI usage on the XL series...only products i recall were MIO, Supra/KPI interface, Black box and the 1064 from Atari...in the UK we had the Yorkie external RAM upgrade...and that was pretty much about it

 

You can put any amount of extended ram in any atari. The real-estate on the motherboard is not much of a factor at all.. The Mathy VonNisselroy (Sorry Mathy.. I alwayse butcher your name) 1meg SIMM upgrade has been done to 600XLs and the Mega-hz 512k SRAM upgrade has as well..

 

But for that matter, theres plenty of room in there to stick a custom PCB, no matter what type of ram you use. You just cant "hack" it up to a whole lot of ram using piggybacked chips like you can in the 800XL, 130XE, etc.

 

The 600XL only has 2 DRAM sockets. It uses 4-bit data bus chips instead of 1-bit chips like the 800XL.. This is also the difference between the early 130XEs (that had 16 dram chips) and the later 130xes (and 800xes) that had 2 or 4 (depending on whether its populated to 64k or 128k)... The XEGS also uses 4-bit DRAMS.. Anywayze.. The largest DRAM you can get that matches that pin configuration is 64k x 4bit.. So youd need 8 sets of 2 chips to get you to 512k.. You cant piggyback DRAMS 8 chips high in any atari..

 

However.. If you made a board that plugs into the sockets at U5 and U6 (the DRAM multiplexers,) gets the data bus from the DRAM sockets, and ran a 6 wire "ribbon" cable to the appropriate PORTB output pins of the PIA chip, you could easily put a 30 pin SIMM socket (or even 8 (1bit) DRAM sockets for that matter) on that board, and have it fit, no problem.. ATARI even had an internal 64k board (someone showed a picture of it recently in one of the threads on here) that used 8 64k x 1bit DRAMS in a special 64k 600XL that they sold.. They did this because at the time, 8 64k x 1bit DRAMS were cheaper than 2 64k x 4bit DRAMS.. The 600XL uses the same MMU and ANTIC as the 800XL... So if you had a 600XL that came with one of these "8 chip" boards in it from the factory, you could almost apply a "Claus Bucholz" 256k (or 512k/1024k) upgrade to it directly, with very minor changes to the upgrade circuit..

 

Theres also room for Dual pokeys in a 600XL, without a problem.. Its ROM sockets are located in the rear of the machine, like the 800XL, so a 32-in one OS board, or Internal MyIDE board would fit just fine as well.... And if you rip out the useless RF-modulator, you could probably squeeze a notebook hardisk or CF-card slot adaptor in....

 

Oh, and yeah the keyboards are interchangeable between the 800XL and 600XL...

[+bob1200xl]

I think he was referring to a PBI - based memory upgrade. The PBI has all the signals needed, except HALT, so no XE memory versions. There is enough room inside, however - use a teeny little SRAM and a GAL.

 

I think the PBI protocol is more likely to get along with other software and hardware since it was an Atari Standard. At least, we shouldn't be writing stuff or making boards that step on it. Nice thing about the XLs is that you can run a cable over to your PBI board - it doesn't have to get up close and personal with your computer.

 

Anyway... $5, I can save out of my allowance.

 

Bob

 

 

 

So...I guess that the back end of a 600xl and 800xl are different (600 is minus the video output)

 

bob1200 mentioed sticking 512k in a 600xl....Is the 600 circuit board big enough or was bob thinking on reducing the no. of ram chips and just r/w'ing them with the 7LS chip (if the 600 has one) or sticking in other one for addit. decoding

 

Additonally it seems that recently there's been reasonable interest in the PBI usage on the XL series...just curious as to why that is as i seem to recall that when these systems were current..there was either zero interest or very little interest in PBI usage on the XL series...only products i recall were MIO, Supra/KPI interface, Black box and the 1064 from Atari...in the UK we had the Yorkie external RAM upgrade...and that was pretty much about it

[+Larry]

I think he was referring to a PBI - based memory upgrade. The PBI has all the signals needed, except HALT, so no XE memory versions. There is enough room inside, however - use a teeny little SRAM and a GAL.

 

I think the PBI protocol is more likely to get along with other software and hardware since it was an Atari Standard. At least, we shouldn't be writing stuff or making boards that step on it. Nice thing about the XLs is that you can run a cable over to your PBI board - it doesn't have to get up close and personal with your computer.

 

Anyway... $5, I can save out of my allowance.

 

Hi Bob1200XL-

 

By any chance have a picture of one these 512KB mods in a 600XL? Could be put into its big brother, the 800XL? I'm basically an "XE guy," but recently, I'm coming to appreciate some redeeming features in the 800XL's.

 

-Larry

[+bob1200xl]

 

I have this one in a 1200XL. Same, Same. Plugs into the BASIC socket, flat cable hooks to the 6520 bits. This version has battery backup - data is in RAM forever. (really, I left this sit idle for two years and the data was not corrupted) I have a diskette that is configured in MyDOS with RD as D1:. You boot DOS from that floppy and then all D1: reads (and writes, of course) go to the RD. Something like 4000 sectors... It would work the same in an 800XL. This is actually a 576K machine, by the way.

 

Bob

 

 

I think he was referring to a PBI - based memory upgrade. The PBI has all the signals needed, except HALT, so no XE memory versions. There is enough room inside, however - use a teeny little SRAM and a GAL.

 

I think the PBI protocol is more likely to get along with other software and hardware since it was an Atari Standard. At least, we shouldn't be writing stuff or making boards that step on it. Nice thing about the XLs is that you can run a cable over to your PBI board - it doesn't have to get up close and personal with your computer.

 

Anyway... $5, I can save out of my allowance.

 

Hi Bob1200XL-

 

By any chance have a picture of one these 512KB mods in a 600XL? Could be put into its big brother, the 800XL? I'm basically an "XE guy," but recently, I'm coming to appreciate some redeeming features in the 800XL's.

 

-Larry

[mimo]

 

I have this one in a 1200XL. Same, Same. Plugs into the BASIC socket, flat cable hooks to the 6520 bits. This version has battery backup - data is in RAM forever. (really, I left this sit idle for two years and the data was not corrupted) I have a diskette that is configured in MyDOS with RD as D1:. You boot DOS from that floppy and then all D1: reads (and writes, of course) go to the RD. Something like 4000 sectors... It would work the same in an 800XL. This is actually a 576K machine, by the way.

 

Bob

 

 

I think he was referring to a PBI - based memory upgrade. The PBI has all the signals needed, except HALT, so no XE memory versions. There is enough room inside, however - use a teeny little SRAM and a GAL.

 

I think the PBI protocol is more likely to get along with other software and hardware since it was an Atari Standard. At least, we shouldn't be writing stuff or making boards that step on it. Nice thing about the XLs is that you can run a cable over to your PBI board - it doesn't have to get up close and personal with your computer.

 

Anyway... $5, I can save out of my allowance.

 

Hi Bob1200XL-

 

By any chance have a picture of one these 512KB mods in a 600XL? Could be put into its big brother, the 800XL? I'm basically an "XE guy," but recently, I'm coming to appreciate some redeeming features in the 800XL's.

 

-Larry

 

MegaHZ sells the 512K upgrades. I have one waiting to go into a 600 or 1200XL, not decided yet

I believe that you have to do the internal 64K upgrade on the 600XL first.

[carmel_andrews]

Thanks for the heads up MG and bob1200

 

Just a couple of questions though (re the 600)

 

Firstly, assuming that you were doing an internal Ram upgrade and placing a pcb over the empty 600 ram sockets and populating it with whatever memory you were sticking in there…what would be the minimum clearance allowed from the top of the populated pcb to the 600’s shielding…or if you got rid of the shielding (unwise from what I hear) from the populated pcb to the keyboard component

 

My thinking is, is to allow the maximum amount of clearance by using a double sided pcb and making sure that the populated side is facing the motherboard (or is that dangerous)

 

Also I’ve heard that some people when doing 130/65xe memory upgrades (I don’t think it’s relevant to xl’s since their memory is socketed) that they piggyback the ram chips ontop of each other…like homebrew USDoubler style….isn’t there a danger of power surges as the bottom chip will be generating a lot of power/heat etc…of does the power regulation on the xe’s always dissipate which means that each component receives the right amount of power to work (thus preventing power surges/overheating)

 

Wouldn’t a better way to do xe mem. upgrades is just to upgrade the ram chips themselves to say x lots of 16k to x lots of 32k or whatever…that way you avoid having to piggyback chips

 

Also Bob1200 mention a PBI based mem. upgrade…

 

Wouldn’t it be easier to get hold of say a Yorkie (if they were available in the US) or a broken MIO/1064 etc (which were available in the US) and work the memory upgrade around that…that way Bob save a lot of time for parts…as most of the part will be there already and since MG knows about PBI-ECI extenders these upgrades can also work in xe’s as well

 

Yorkie and 1064 if mem recall’s were PBI devices (I think MIO was one too)

[+Larry]

 

I have this one in a 1200XL. Same, Same. Plugs into the BASIC socket, flat cable hooks to the 6520 bits. This version has battery backup - data is in RAM forever. (really, I left this sit idle for two years and the data was not corrupted) I have a diskette that is configured in MyDOS with RD as D1:. You boot DOS from that floppy and then all D1: reads (and writes, of course) go to the RD. Something like 4000 sectors... It would work the same in an 800XL. This is actually a 576K machine, by the way.

Bob

 

Thanks for posting the pic. Very nice.

 

Is this one written up somewhere? All wire wrap? Wire Wrap socket to plug into the 1200XL Basic socket?

 

Presume you didn't have to cut traces on the normal ram chips since it is 576K?

 

How many connections to the bottom of the board (approximately)?

 

And again, very nice!

 

-Larry

[+bob1200xl]

 

Looks like 7 wires in the flat cable and two on the board. One of the added wires is for the 800XL OS conversion, as well. The base 64K is untouched. Unplug the added board and it all works like normal. Pin headers plug into the lower ROM site, U13.

 

The date on this one is 1998 so it probably wasn't published. You have to re-program the MMU for this mod and I hadn't decoded the PAL until '94 or so.

 

Notice that the L1 and L2 LEDs are still in-circuit. They blink when you are accessing ramdisk.

 

Bob

 

 

 

 

I have this one in a 1200XL. Same, Same. Plugs into the BASIC socket, flat cable hooks to the 6520 bits. This version has battery backup - data is in RAM forever. (really, I left this sit idle for two years and the data was not corrupted) I have a diskette that is configured in MyDOS with RD as D1:. You boot DOS from that floppy and then all D1: reads (and writes, of course) go to the RD. Something like 4000 sectors... It would work the same in an 800XL. This is actually a 576K machine, by the way.

Bob

 

Thanks for posting the pic. Very nice.

 

Is this one written up somewhere? All wire wrap? Wire Wrap socket to plug into the 1200XL Basic socket?

 

Presume you didn't have to cut traces on the normal ram chips since it is 576K?

 

How many connections to the bottom of the board (approximately)?

 

And again, very nice!

 

-Larry