Polybius Posted July 12, 2009 Share Posted July 12, 2009 This is probably the largest post on Atariage! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frogstar_robot Posted July 12, 2009 Share Posted July 12, 2009 (edited) Oswald is a very talented C64 demo coder I didn't say he was untalented or doesn't know his stuff. He obviously does. But talent doesn't preclude arrogance which he also has in abundance. Edited July 12, 2009 by frogstar_robot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atariksi Posted July 12, 2009 Share Posted July 12, 2009 ...(you didn't think I'd keep one of those crippled things with a Sinclair ZX keyboard and no useful ram to run any significant percentage of commercial games released and no easy way to upgrade it to 48k even if I could bear to use that piece of shit touchpad keyboard? LOL) All the cartridges I have run fine on A400 since they must have been targeted to use <=16K RAM. Keyboard is not used-- just start/option/select and I have a keyboard simulation (if needed for non-cartridge stuff). I can't rely on loading stuff as people who play on this system are youngsters and don't have patience nor skills to use disks. Even they bang on keyboard, nothing happens to game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atarian63 Posted July 12, 2009 Share Posted July 12, 2009 (edited) Agreed but then the C64philes haven't always behaved either True, though the degree of venom I see from atariski and atarian63 far exceeds what I've seen from the C64 fans. It's a pity you're being put off it. I bet you could do great things with it. Yeah, it is. I was interested in the Atari back in the day, else I wouldn't have gone to the trouble of learning Atascii to add support for it to my MusicTerm software, I just never had the funds to obtain one. And now that I can afford to, well, I guess the word is ironic for the impact of a couple of Atari Fanatics... Ah well, I've been enjoying the rediscovery of old favorites with my new Mega-Cart You must be kidding, what we have put into the list here is very mild, maybe it would help to get some perspective. some seem to miss the c64 bias baiting and trolling. I like to point it out and not just accept what they say as some sort of "factoid". Often Atariski has pointed out the flaws,some don't like it, but it is logical. I have own a 64 a different times over the years, tried to like it, just didn't. It always seems off in some odd sort of way and very quirky as well, just my opinion. If you dig c64, fine as well, trying to convince me though, since I had to sell that crap back in the day won't work.Trying to slam Atari as somehow inferior on the other hand is just wrong. Some have said we need to appreciate all systems. That makes no sense, that would be like saying I have to appreciate all manufactures of cars which I do not. If you like it(c64 fine) there are plenty of places to rah rah for c64 and have loads of misinformed tell you that you are correct. That said there are some here who are 64 fans who have been constructive and helpful for ideas on the Atari (we are on Atariage) and that is great! Edited July 12, 2009 by atarian63 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atariksi Posted July 12, 2009 Share Posted July 12, 2009 This is probably the largest post on Atariage! Your post is eight words. Even this reply is a bigger post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frogstar_robot Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 This is probably the largest post on Atariage! Your post is eight words. Even this reply is a bigger post. I wouldn't say that you are a troll or that you spout anything more than mild venom but duuuuuuuude step away from the keyboard and tot up your post count. You've been something of a monomaniac. Or even more aptly: http://redwing.hutman.net/~mreed/warriorsh...essrebutter.htm Let some of this go. We're having a nice summer this year. Check it out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atariksi Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 This is probably the largest post on Atariage! Your post is eight words. Even this reply is a bigger post. I wouldn't say that you are a troll or that you spout anything more than mild venom but duuuuuuuude step away from the keyboard and tot up your post count. You've been something of a monomaniac. Or even more aptly: http://redwing.hutman.net/~mreed/warriorsh...essrebutter.htm Let some of this go. We're having a nice summer this year. Check it out! Oh give it a break. That was written in humor. You are reading too much into it. I can understand what he meant, but I don't know about you given your above remark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ApolloBoy Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 I can understand what he meant, but I don't know about you given your above remark. I think what Frogstar is saying is that you're taking this debate much too seriously. Now what's say we all play some MULE on the A8 followed by some California Games on the C64? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oky2000 Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 I can understand what he meant, but I don't know about you given your above remark. I think what Frogstar is saying is that you're taking this debate much too seriously. Now what's say we all play some MULE on the A8 followed by some California Games on the C64? I never really understood the game M.U.L.E. What the heck is it about? Seems to have quite the cult following. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heaven/TQA Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 oh no... MULE RULES!!!! Dan Bunten RULES... don't start this war... Mule is one of the most credit games in history even nowadays... was not Spore dedicated to Bunten? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
popmilo Posted July 14, 2009 Share Posted July 14, 2009 oh no... MULE RULES!!!! Dan Bunten RULES... don't start this war... Mule is one of the most credit games in history even nowadays... was not Spore dedicated to Bunten? Don't anyone dare to start a discussion about M.U.L.E. and which computer has a best version !!! It is one of the greatest games ever.... From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M.U.L.E. >>"Will Wright dedicated his game The Sims, the greatest selling computer game of all time, to the memory of Bunten. The M.U.L.E. theme song was included in Wright's later game, Spore, as an Easter egg." Another cool place: http://www.worldofmule.net/tiki-index.php?page=Atari+800 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetboot Jack Posted July 14, 2009 Share Posted July 14, 2009 ...you're right popmilo - everyone knows which version is best, no contest sTeVE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oky2000 Posted July 14, 2009 Share Posted July 14, 2009 I have no idea about the game at all, and looking at screenshots really doesn't help me out. What is it all about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted July 14, 2009 Share Posted July 14, 2009 I have no idea about the game at all, and looking at screenshots really doesn't help me out. What is it all about? It's one of the most complex but easiest to handle economy simulations. You have to calculate with weather and other troubles, you have to think about where you can get the most of the resources that you want, by buying the correct field.... And, ofcourse you have to catch the Moutain Wampus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oky2000 Posted July 14, 2009 Share Posted July 14, 2009 I have no idea about the game at all, and looking at screenshots really doesn't help me out. What is it all about? It's one of the most complex but easiest to handle economy simulations. You have to calculate with weather and other troubles, you have to think about where you can get the most of the resources that you want, by buying the correct field.... And, ofcourse you have to catch the Moutain Wampus So it's mostly a strategy type game? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
popmilo Posted July 14, 2009 Share Posted July 14, 2009 So it's mostly a strategy type game? Just play it Its one of those turn based games that sucks you in and doesn't let go until you realize sun has come up (but this takes less time than civilization so don't worry.... ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jvas Posted July 14, 2009 Share Posted July 14, 2009 Another cool place:http://www.worldofmule.net/tiki-index.php?page=Atari+800 Do you know how to register? I see only "Login" but no "register" button ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R4ngerM4n Posted July 14, 2009 Share Posted July 14, 2009 Atari rulez!!! That's it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oky2000 Posted July 14, 2009 Share Posted July 14, 2009 So it's mostly a strategy type game? Just play it Its one of those turn based games that sucks you in and doesn't let go until you realize sun has come up (but this takes less time than civilization so don't worry.... ) I'll give it a go, I'm sure there's an ATR in a Tosec collection of MULE. Is there a scan of the manual for it anywhere then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heaven/TQA Posted July 14, 2009 Share Posted July 14, 2009 Oky...for more insight: http://bringerp.free.fr/RE/ EA should release an 360 live arcade version incl. original gfx and multiplayer.... that would kick ass... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heaven/TQA Posted July 14, 2009 Share Posted July 14, 2009 oh... Mule infos disappeared? http://www.atariage.com/forums/index.php?s...e+decompilation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heaven/TQA Posted July 14, 2009 Share Posted July 14, 2009 http://bringerp.free.fr/RE/Mule/mule_document_en2.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteD Posted July 15, 2009 Share Posted July 15, 2009 Hey all, I'm new to this forum (and have barely any Atari experience apart from the ST) but I registered after reading some (yeah, not all lol) of this thread after seeing it mentioned on Lemon64. I'd like to ask a few questions and also input my 2p worth. Firstly I really can't see why the C64 guys (and I class myself as one) are using that Enforcer demo to show off the capabilities of the c64 and brag about how it's so much better than the Atari. IMHO it's a mess, yes I know it isn't finished, but please, It's a simple smooth scroller with some expanded sprites, a parallax background (which I think after reading this thread everyone knows that's easy enough to do) software (not even masked) sprites for the bullets, I doubt a multiplexer as there don't seem to be enough sprites on screen and what are there flicker sometimes. So really the only impressive "looking" part is the parallax, which is simple to do and has been done much better (hawkeye for example, but that cheats using a bank switching method) and (at least on vice) flickers?!?! why?? Don't get me wrong, I'm not hammering the coders who wrote it because it's good to see people still working on the c64 but like I say, why use something that isn't that impressive to prove a point. As I say I'm pretty much an Atari noob but so far I see it this way, the c64 has more colours and sprites (without doing weird stuff) than the Atari. That's about it. (oh yeah, and SID of course). The Atari has taller sprites, hmm I don't really see a plus there, a simple raster split gives taller sprites on the c64. Also the Atari's sprites are mono? and only 8 pixels wide? The Atari can have wider "playfields" and set an offset into them to scroll? (so saving cpu time having to rebuild the screen as often). From memory (which is pretty bad these days) I'd got a pretty fast software sprite routine back in the 80s running on c64 and could probably do an even faster one now (my coding chops haven't stagnated over the years) and with the extra cpu time the Atari has I think you could just about replicate the hardware sprite usage from Enforcer on the Atari. So now you're down to colours again. This is where I'm getting lost in this thread with all the Atari tech talk of modes and players overlayed on the screen and somehow the Atari's "sprites" managing to cover the whole screen horizontally. What I'm interested in is finding a good source of technical info on the atari, different modes, methods of producing more colours on screen, cpu time available etc because I quite fancy having a go at replicating the enforcer demo (or at least something very like it) on Atari. Anyone interested in my credentials before they start slagging me off for piping up in this thread and being yet another person talking about the possibilities of the Atari. Well, I've been a game coder since about 1986-7, I work in assembler on just about every platform (when possible), the C64 VSP hardware trick (mentioned a few times in this thread) was first used by me and was named by me (VSP and IK+, Meanteam demo), I've written emulators (although not all got finished) splamsid (6502+sid emulator for gba) and splam (c64 emu for gba) which never got completed due to "real life syndrome" and also the first CD-i emulator for PC that actually played anything (also another casualty of real life). All in all my point is this. IMHO the C64 IS a better gaming machine from nearly all aspects but putting the Atari down based on a reasonably poor example of C64 coding prowess just isn't on. I've kind of got the 6502 coding bug again reading all this stuff and I love a challenge and might well have a go at digging out (or rewriting) my software sprite code, some parallax, a scroller, software bullets etc but as I say I have no idea of the best (if any reasonable) way to get more colours on screen. Any pointers would be appreciated. Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rybags Posted July 15, 2009 Share Posted July 15, 2009 http://www.atariage.com/forums/index.php?s...&hl=manuals I started that thread some time ago... the official Hardware and OS Manuals are the must-have technical references. There's also De-Re Atari, it might be in that thread too... although it's a bit old and doesn't have many tricks. Someone's even put an article on Wiki for some of our software driven graphics modes It's also a little out of date. I recently devised a way to produce real interlaced graphics, which gives doubled vertical resolution (480). There's a couple of threads about it, I've done a demo and am in the process of modifying an old game to use it. There's only support for it in emulation in a special release of the Atari++ emulator at this stage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heaven/TQA Posted July 15, 2009 Share Posted July 15, 2009 Hey all, I'm new to this forum (and have barely any Atari experience apart from the ST) but I registered after reading some (yeah, not all lol) of this thread after seeing it mentioned on Lemon64. I'd like to ask a few questions and also input my 2p worth. Firstly I really can't see why the C64 guys (and I class myself as one) are using that Enforcer demo to show off the capabilities of the c64 and brag about how it's so much better than the Atari. IMHO it's a mess, yes I know it isn't finished, but please, It's a simple smooth scroller with some expanded sprites, a parallax background (which I think after reading this thread everyone knows that's easy enough to do) software (not even masked) sprites for the bullets, I doubt a multiplexer as there don't seem to be enough sprites on screen and what are there flicker sometimes. So really the only impressive "looking" part is the parallax, which is simple to do and has been done much better (hawkeye for example, but that cheats using a bank switching method) and (at least on vice) flickers?!?! why?? Don't get me wrong, I'm not hammering the coders who wrote it because it's good to see people still working on the c64 but like I say, why use something that isn't that impressive to prove a point. As I say I'm pretty much an Atari noob but so far I see it this way, the c64 has more colours and sprites (without doing weird stuff) than the Atari. That's about it. (oh yeah, and SID of course). The Atari has taller sprites, hmm I don't really see a plus there, a simple raster split gives taller sprites on the c64. Also the Atari's sprites are mono? and only 8 pixels wide? The Atari can have wider "playfields" and set an offset into them to scroll? (so saving cpu time having to rebuild the screen as often). From memory (which is pretty bad these days) I'd got a pretty fast software sprite routine back in the 80s running on c64 and could probably do an even faster one now (my coding chops haven't stagnated over the years) and with the extra cpu time the Atari has I think you could just about replicate the hardware sprite usage from Enforcer on the Atari. So now you're down to colours again. This is where I'm getting lost in this thread with all the Atari tech talk of modes and players overlayed on the screen and somehow the Atari's "sprites" managing to cover the whole screen horizontally. What I'm interested in is finding a good source of technical info on the atari, different modes, methods of producing more colours on screen, cpu time available etc because I quite fancy having a go at replicating the enforcer demo (or at least something very like it) on Atari. Anyone interested in my credentials before they start slagging me off for piping up in this thread and being yet another person talking about the possibilities of the Atari. Well, I've been a game coder since about 1986-7, I work in assembler on just about every platform (when possible), the C64 VSP hardware trick (mentioned a few times in this thread) was first used by me and was named by me (VSP and IK+, Meanteam demo), I've written emulators (although not all got finished) splamsid (6502+sid emulator for gba) and splam (c64 emu for gba) which never got completed due to "real life syndrome" and also the first CD-i emulator for PC that actually played anything (also another casualty of real life). All in all my point is this. IMHO the C64 IS a better gaming machine from nearly all aspects but putting the Atari down based on a reasonably poor example of C64 coding prowess just isn't on. I've kind of got the 6502 coding bug again reading all this stuff and I love a challenge and might well have a go at digging out (or rewriting) my software sprite code, some parallax, a scroller, software bullets etc but as I say I have no idea of the best (if any reasonable) way to get more colours on screen. Any pointers would be appreciated. Pete Hello Pete, good to have you here on board as I am always happy to discuss things with experienced people. :=) We are not so biased like some post show but we love 6502... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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