Atari v Commodore

[popmilo]

This is what thegoldenband said:

 

"There's been some really nasty, disrespectful, and (above all) hypocritical stuff posted by certain people".

"I think words like "biased" and "hater" should be banned from this thread, because everyone who's using those words seems to be using them as a replacement for "Anything that suggests my machine is better is objectively true and a fact, but anything that suggests your machine is better is a dirty lie made up by haters and trolls." People who act in that manner should not be welcome here, period."

 

I put some parts in bold - It is his opinion that most of people who use 'bias' and 'hater' are using those words to characterize someone that they are replying to.

Those are few WORDS in an entire language - you can not take them out of sentence and expect them to have one meaning and allow them or ban them on that premise.

 

And funny how one peaceful post can sprout such a biased reaction:

...

You just praised someone for not allowing words like "biased" and now you use them without any evidence. Self contradictory and hypocritical.

I praised him for what he meant. I bet he meant "ban use of words 'bias' and 'hater' in that context."

 

I used 'biased' as description of your entire attitude in your reply...

'Biased' as opposite from my reply...

 

...You mean things like Apple sucks worse the C64 and Atari 800...

...Because you are inept to understand that THERE ACTUALLY are BIASED people in the world and THERE ACTUALLY IS HATRED in the world...

...Why don't you file some complaint to have them remove those words from the dictionary...

...We are not all equal...

Man, you are one of the more biased people around here... I value highly one's right to fight for what he believes in, but...

Anger? Hatred? On retro forum ?

...

You are speculating. That was actually humerous reply. I have no hatred for anyone nor bias, but I can tell when someone else is biased and has hatred.

Ok, I didn't get humour in your reply...

You are not biased ? Now that is humour

 

There is a saying in my country that goes something like this:

"Guard yourself from others.

Guard others from yourself."

It doesn't apply. So keep the analogy to yourself.

I think it is valid and therefore I choose not to try to answer on your opinion of it.

 

You haven't shown where the hatred is.

I meant the posts that he referred to - nasty ones in the last 20 pages...

 

You became sentimentally attached to his message although all he's doing is picking on me mostly because I mainly use the word bias and recently hatred WHERE IT APPLIED perfectly.

I haven't seen your name in his post, so didn't think it has anything to do with you.

 

You don't see his bias/hatred since it's his blood that's boiling. He hasn't even read the thread and he decided to pick on those words. That's called BIASED analysis. And why would HE act in such a way-- HATRED toward my approach toward truthfulness. He needs to get a life rather than take these back stabs at people he does not understand.

His blood is boiling because of bad emotions that ooze from some posts ...

Yes he seems biased... He really thinks that we should all be nice to each other...

I'm biased to then... I don't see why is it a bad thing...

[andym00]

Fine C64 viewing from 1983,typical of what I recall. Looks like an Atari 2600 game

(no insult to 2600)

 

The 2600 looked better, but gameplay-wise I'm sure they're both equally on par with one another

[PeteD]

 

We are not all equal; Atari users have access to more colors and higher CPU speed. We can digitize imagery and automatically get nice pictures where C64 users have to rely on STE to generate good graphics.

 

 

I hardly think having a go at an artist who can no doubt draw better than you ever could by comparing hand drawn (possibly with a joystick, I don't think he had his pad then) to some wired/scanned in unoriginal rubbish is fair. Typical really, the people actually showing their skills get to take all the crap and the people talking the big talk but never backing up their words with proof think they're so much better. It's also funny how there are some of STE's pictures on the G2F gallery where someone has obviously decided they're worthy of converting to the A8 to show just how great a machine it is...

 

 

Pete

Edited October 15, 2009 by PeteD

[Crazyace]

If I understand Metalguy (and perhaps I do not) he is a big-time Amiga guy and could probably out-Amiga all of you numbnuts put together. As for the fact that he likes the A8 also....well, you're just going to have to DEAL WITH THAT. So if you think the Amiga is so great (and you wouldn't be a true Commie-lover if you don't) don't discount this guy. Maybe **ALL** of Jay Miner's handiwork isn't so bad??? Sorry if it excludes your 64.

 

Actually I was thinking about this last night and if you think about it Miners weak point does indeed seem to have eternally been hardware moving objects.. Whilst the display hardware itself is pretty much always all well and good, the movable objects themselves, players, sprite, whatever have usually been the side that let the machine down.. Granted on the 2600 they were the absolute saviour for it, but they evolved very little from that point in, through to the 5200/A8 there's little in the way of 2 years of progress, and by the time the Amiga arrived, there's literally bugger all evolution in them from the A8, whilst the rest of the world had moved on to silly amounts of sprites, a theme that generally stayed for quite some time.. It's still odd that the Atari machines with the monster sprite-abilities (that Miner had nothing to do with) 7800/Lynx/Jaguar failed so catastrophically in their times.. Maybe there was something to that Miner magic after all..

 

I find that this interview is really interesting, http://www.amigahistory.co.uk/jayminerinterview.html

He wanted to do a 68000 machine in 79 while still at Atari, and left when no bonuses were paid.

He also seemed really into the blitter idea, and I guess that's why the sprites were given less of a boost. After all - the blitter gave the Amiga better 'sprite' capabilities ( in terms of size ) than most other machines.

[andym00]

I find that this interview is really interesting, http://www.amigahist...rinterview.html

He wanted to do a 68000 machine in 79 while still at Atari, and left when no bonuses were paid.

He also seemed really into the blitter idea, and I guess that's why the sprites were given less of a boost. After all - the blitter gave the Amiga better 'sprite' capabilities ( in terms of size ) than most other machines.

 

Actually that is an interesting read that I hadn't seen before.. Thanks.. I didn't realise that his split with Atari was quite like that, and so early either.. But true, he does seem to have had the blitter bug badly, and that's no bad thing, but I just never understood why the sprites made it through to the final design, especially 8 of them, in such an ineffectual form if they were convinced the blitter was the better solution.. Sure one or two for mouse pointer duties or something.. But to have 8 of them, how they were, kind of feels like they were maybe unsure of their importance and were hedging their bets a bit..

[Rockford]

I have to agree that Rockford is clearly only selecting games that look better on the Commodore 64 versus the Atari 8-bit. The example of Knight Orc is particularly egregious. Sure, the C64 version is clearly better (unless you prefer pure text adventures), but all this shows is that for whatever reason the developer didn't put as much effort into the Atari 8-bit version. It does nothing to show that one machine is better than the other.

 

Whew! I was beginning to think I was the only one who noticed. I see no point in the Knight Orc comparison for those reasons you've stated. I love the other comparisons, regardless of outcome.

I put him on ignore as soon as I realized he was only here to stir the pot.

Just did the same, a waste of skin that one.

Funny, I haven't noticed that. On the contrary, I remember you (on the verge of despair) comparing different games on different platforms, which doesn't make any sense.

[Rockford]

 

We are not all equal; Atari users have access to more colors and higher CPU speed. We can digitize imagery and automatically get nice pictures where C64 users have to rely on STE to generate good graphics.

 

 

Nothing better than a good joke in the morning. I've posted 40+ games so far (there will be more), and ALMOST ALWAYS, C64 can handle more colours on screen than Atari. You know, practice verifies theory.

[Rockford]

 

We are not all equal; Atari users have access to more colors and higher CPU speed. We can digitize imagery and automatically get nice pictures where C64 users have to rely on STE to generate good graphics.

 

 

I hardly think having a go at an artist who can no doubt draw better than you ever could by comparing hand drawn (possibly with a joystick, I don't think he had his pad then) to some wired/scanned in unoriginal rubbish is fair. Typical really, the people actually showing their skills get to take all the crap and the people talking the big talk but never backing up their words with proof think they're so much better. It's also funny how there are some of STE's pictures on the G2F gallery where someone has obviously decided they're worthy of converting to the A8 to show just how great a machine it is...

 

 

Pete

Exactly. I pointed that out before.

[TMR]

Y'know, i was with you up until...

 

On sits on a shelf collecting dust.. guess which one that is..

 

..the dig. There wasn't any need really, was there?

 

If I understand Metalguy (and perhaps I do not) he is a big-time Amiga guy and could probably out-Amiga all of you numbnuts put together. As for the fact that he likes the A8 also....well, you're just going to have to DEAL WITH THAT.

 

Would you care to show me where i wasn't dealing with that exactly? The only point i took issue with was the dig at the end, if he prefers the A8 over the C64 i don't have the slightest of problems and if you want to find people who can't comprehend that you'll need to start looking in the Atari camp rather than the C64 side of the fence.

 

Edit: MEtalGuy66 has since said that wasn't his intention and this is in no way aimed at him, but the point stands on a more general level anyway.

 

So if you think the Amiga is so great (and you wouldn't be a true Commie-lover if you don't) don't discount this guy. Maybe **ALL** of Jay Miner's handiwork isn't so bad??? Sorry if it excludes your 64.

 

And there's another mistake on your part, i've never shown blind loyalty to Commodore; i can appreciate Miner's work on the A8 without it somehow eroding my preference. i've never said i consider the C64 to be perfect either because there are ways it could be better, but the concessions in the design like the colour count are all there for reasons, since most of them are "because of the sprites" i can appreciate why those decisions were made.

Edited October 15, 2009 by TMR

[TMR]

I hardly think having a go at an artist who can no doubt draw better than you ever could by comparing hand drawn (possibly with a joystick, I don't think he had his pad then) to some wired/scanned in unoriginal rubbish is fair. Typical really, the people actually showing their skills get to take all the crap and the people talking the big talk but never backing up their words with proof think they're so much better.

 

It makes you wonder doesn't it... if some people here were the same back in 1984/5, there's an inexplicable mass exodus of programmers to be accounted for, maybe they just left because they'd enough of being told what they should and shouldn't be doing.

 

It's also funny how there are some of STE's pictures on the G2F gallery where someone has obviously decided they're worthy of converting to the A8 to show just how great a machine it is...

 

"You're crap... but look how good our machine looks with some of your pictures!"

[Crazyace]

I find that this interview is really interesting, http://www.amigahist...rinterview.html

He wanted to do a 68000 machine in 79 while still at Atari, and left when no bonuses were paid.

He also seemed really into the blitter idea, and I guess that's why the sprites were given less of a boost. After all - the blitter gave the Amiga better 'sprite' capabilities ( in terms of size ) than most other machines.

 

Actually that is an interesting read that I hadn't seen before.. Thanks.. I didn't realise that his split with Atari was quite like that, and so early either.. But true, he does seem to have had the blitter bug badly, and that's no bad thing, but I just never understood why the sprites made it through to the final design, especially 8 of them, in such an ineffectual form if they were convinced the blitter was the better solution.. Sure one or two for mouse pointer duties or something.. But to have 8 of them, how they were, kind of feels like they were maybe unsure of their importance and were hedging their bets a bit..

 

I found another quote to be really interesting - Jay says that the original design only had 320 pixel colour ( even in 640 mode ) - and the Commodore guys fixed that. So it sound's like the Video side was an evolution of the Atari 8 bit NTSC centric design - and HAM dropped out of the keep colour, change luminance stuff.

[+wood_jl]

But I really, really hope that no one -- including the moderators -- think there should be one standard of behavior for Atari users in this thread, and another for C64 users, simply because this happens to be an Atari website.

 

Well, the fact of the matter is that this **IS** an Atari site. Sorry to wreck the fantasy that it is not, and sorry that antagonists aren't worthy of equal footing as enthusiasts. Awww, let's break down the concept: Most regular users of Atari sites like Ataris. Most regular guys on Ford sites like Fords. Most regular guys on Chevy sites like Chevys. Most regular guys on Commodore sites like Commodore. Most regular guys on Arctic Cat sites like Arctic Cat. Most regular guys on Polaris sites like Polaris. Most regular guys on Harley-Davidson sites like Harley Davidson. Most regular guys on Kawasaki sites like Kawasaki. Get it?

 

Is this a difficult concept to grasp? Perhaps someone will draw a picture, illustrative of this fact, and upload it, if it's SO surprising. It should NOT be surprising; it should be painfully obvious. Equally obvious should be the fact that if you enter any of those sites spewing venom and criticism of the product/brand/choice of the majority of members of a respective site, you're going to set off a pissing contest/flamewar. Those guilty damn-well know it, and I submit to you that is exactly why they're here. This is an Atari site. I imagine all are welcome but flamers are going to encounter resistance. DUH! Difficult concept? Not expected? Surprised? Best of luck to you in life, then. Go to a Commodore site and start an anti-Commodore flamewar, then report back to this thread with your progress. Gee, do you think you'd be called an antagonist? [please provide links]

[atariksi]

I hardly think having a go at an artist who can no doubt draw better than you ever could by comparing hand drawn (possibly with a joystick, I don't think he had his pad then) to some wired/scanned in unoriginal rubbish is fair. Typical really, the people actually showing their skills get to take all the crap and the people talking the big talk but never backing up their words with proof think they're so much better.

 

It makes you wonder doesn't it...

...

Don't know what you're wondering, but I was actually praising STE's artistic abilities.

[emkay]

It's also funny how there are some of STE's pictures on the G2F gallery where someone has obviously decided they're worthy of converting to the A8 to show just how great a machine it is...

 

"You're crap... but look how good our machine looks with some of your pictures!"

 

It's more like:

 

Look what is possible with a tool like G2F.

 

Or....

Look, with a little good will, you could have done this pic on the A8 aswell.

 

Finding a way for enhancing the "colour density" opens new possibilities. Even the "limited" G2F tools offers some enhancements in the palette usage.

[atariksi]

This is what thegoldenband said:

 

"There's been some really nasty, disrespectful, and (above all) hypocritical stuff posted by certain people".

"I think words like "biased" and "hater" should be banned from this thread, because everyone who's using those words seems to be using them as a replacement for "Anything that suggests my machine is better is objectively true and a fact, but anything that suggests your machine is better is a dirty lie made up by haters and trolls." People who act in that manner should not be welcome here, period."

 

I put some parts in bold - It is his opinion that most of people who use 'bias' and 'hater' are using those words to characterize someone that they are replying to.

Those are few WORDS in an entire language - you can not take them out of sentence and expect them to have one meaning and allow them or ban them on that premise.

...

I am not taking them out of the sentence. Biased and hater are not as bad as other words that have been used in this thread. So before he gives his analysis, he should find out the worse things that have happened else he himself is being biased/hater and hypocritical. And on top of that I am rejecting his misunderstanding that those words are being used to claim anything that suggests my machine is not better is biased/hater. They were used correctly-- he concocted that because he can't understand it.

 

I praised him for what he meant. I bet he meant "ban use of words 'bias' and 'hater' in that context."

 

I used 'biased' as description of your entire attitude in your reply...

'Biased' as opposite from my reply...

The fact that biased/hatred was used correctly and he thinks it wasn't means that he is against the two words and so it applies to your use as well.

 

You are speculating. That was actually humerous reply. I have no hatred for anyone nor bias, but I can tell when someone else is biased and has hatred.

Ok, I didn't get humour in your reply...

You are not biased ? Now that is humour

You're just speculating. If if you don't see the humor, you didn't justify where there was hatred, anger, etc. I am refuting his speculative idea that biased/hatred should not be allowed. There are good reasons to use those words and not only when I used them but also some other people have also used them properly earlier in the thread. I don't accept hand-waving as evidence.

 

It doesn't apply. So keep the analogy to yourself.

I think it is valid and therefore I choose not to try to answer on your opinion of it.

You can think what you like. There's no coherent relationship between that analogy and what I refuted logically.

 

I meant the posts that he referred to - nasty ones in the last 20 pages...

 

You became sentimentally attached to his message although all he's doing is picking on me mostly because I mainly use the word bias and recently hatred WHERE IT APPLIED perfectly.

I haven't seen your name in his post, so didn't think it has anything to do with you.

Well, then read the posts and see where biased/hatred were used and then you'll be able to better defend him.

 

You don't see his bias/hatred since it's his blood that's boiling. He hasn't even read the thread and he decided to pick on those words. That's called BIASED analysis. And why would HE act in such a way-- HATRED toward my approach toward truthfulness. He needs to get a life rather than take these back stabs at people he does not understand.

His blood is boiling because of bad emotions that ooze from some posts ...

Yes he seems biased... He really thinks that we should all be nice to each other...

I'm biased to then... I don't see why is it a bad thing...

 

You're twisting things now and speculating like you have done with most of his drivel which is more targetted to back-stabbing someone rather than some sort of "peace mission".

[TMR]

It's also funny how there are some of STE's pictures on the G2F gallery where someone has obviously decided they're worthy of converting to the A8 to show just how great a machine it is...

 

"You're crap... but look how good our machine looks with some of your pictures!"

 

It's more like:

 

Look what is possible with a tool like G2F.

 

That only works if the original picture was worth the effort in the first place, if it was a rubbish picture to start with then producing what is almost a direct copy of it on the A8 won't do anything to change that. So either Ste's a rubbish artist or good enough to warrant the time and effort of converting his work to the A8 with G2F, y'can't have it both ways.

 

Or....

Look, with a little good will, you could have done this pic on the A8 aswell.

 

A little good will and a tool that wasn't released for around two decades afterwards... just out of interest, what are tape loaders like if you try using a lot of CPU time on the DLI during them?

[PeteD]

I hardly think having a go at an artist who can no doubt draw better than you ever could by comparing hand drawn (possibly with a joystick, I don't think he had his pad then) to some wired/scanned in unoriginal rubbish is fair. Typical really, the people actually showing their skills get to take all the crap and the people talking the big talk but never backing up their words with proof think they're so much better.

 

It makes you wonder doesn't it...

...

Don't know what you're wondering, but I was actually praising STE's artistic abilities.

 

Really? then why when talking about how much better the A8 is at graphics do you target the one C64 artist who has joined this thread and disagreed with you and who hasn't done any C64 graphics since the 80s?

 

We are not all equal; Atari users have access to more colors and higher CPU speed. We can digitize imagery and automatically get nice pictures where C64 users have to rely on STE to generate good graphics.

 

Why not "rely on hand drawn" or some other phrase? You constantly say the A8s graphics are better and pronounce crap like..

 

The world is more beautiful if the C64 didn't exist with it color-distorted pictures.

 

..and expect us to believe you're then praising one of it's artists who you never heard of before?

 

 

I think someone has realised what an ass they were being and won't admit it.

 

 

Pete

Edited October 15, 2009 by PeteD

[PeteD]

It's also funny how there are some of STE's pictures on the G2F gallery where someone has obviously decided they're worthy of converting to the A8 to show just how great a machine it is...

 

"You're crap... but look how good our machine looks with some of your pictures!"

 

It's more like:

 

Look what is possible with a tool like G2F.

 

Or....

Look, with a little good will, you could have done this pic on the A8 aswell.

 

Finding a way for enhancing the "colour density" opens new possibilities. Even the "limited" G2F tools offers some enhancements in the palette usage.

 

It's not "more like", that's just your view of it. I do agree however that with a lot of thought those pictures could have been done on A8 and not just converted, just as the great A8 pictures shown earlier in the thread were but I'd bet it's easier to draw them on C64 because it's easier to use the colours, limited though they are.

 

 

Pete

[MEtalGuy66]

Well, this has probably already been said.. I'll admit I havent read all 426 pages of this thread..

 

I think, on any given game, it depends which machine the game was originally designed on.

 

If I design a game that takes maximum advantage of the ATARI's features, and then go port it to the C=64 (that is, move most of the code involving the basic game mechanics over, and then try to build a similar looking game, using C=64's features) the C=64 version is probably not gonna look quite as nice as the atari version. Well hell... The game was DESIGNED around the capabilities/limitations of the ATARI.. And by the same token, if I design a game to take advantage of all the strongpoints of the C=64's hardware, I am gonna have a hell of a time making "the same game" on the atari, without making some serious changes/sacrifices.

 

Same was true in the 16bit era.. If a game was designed to utilize the AMIGA's custom features, then that game was strikingly better on the AMIGA than on the ST or PC.. If a game was designed on the PC or ST and ported to the AMIGA, usually the AMIGA version looked like a slightly SLOWER version of the original..

 

Games like Alternate reality (and probably Kronis Rift, etc.) were designed with the ATARI in mind as the first platform the game was actually developed on. Given Commodore's much larger user base in the 80s, I'd say that for the vast majority of games from major software producers, the C=64 took higher precedence as an initial development platform than the ATARI did..

 

This may be a huge speculation, but it makes sense to me..

Edited October 15, 2009 by MEtalGuy66

[atariksi]

I hardly think having a go at an artist who can no doubt draw better than you ever could by comparing hand drawn (possibly with a joystick, I don't think he had his pad then) to some wired/scanned in unoriginal rubbish is fair. Typical really, the people actually showing their skills get to take all the crap and the people talking the big talk but never backing up their words with proof think they're so much better.

 

It makes you wonder doesn't it...

...

Don't know what you're wondering, but I was actually praising STE's artistic abilities.

 

Really? then why when talking about how much better the A8 is at graphics do you target the one C64 artist who has joined this thread and disagreed with you and who hasn't done any C64 graphics since the 80s?

 

We are not all equal; Atari users have access to more colors and higher CPU speed. We can digitize imagery and automatically get nice pictures where C64 users have to rely on STE to generate good graphics.

 

Why not "rely on hand drawn" or some other phrase? You constantly say the A8s graphics are better and pronounce crap like..

 

The world is more beautiful if the C64 didn't exist with it color-distorted pictures.

 

..and expect us to believe you're then praising one of it's artists who you never heard of before?

 

 

I think someone has realised what an ass they were being and won't admit it.

 

 

Pete

 

I have been ignoring you because of your stupidity like you expressed above. I'll give you one more chance to see if you will wisen up. You are are so dull-headed that even praise/humor as interpreted as some sort of fight. Both of my statements are true. You would get better results with a bigger palette. And STE has done a great job given the restrictions he is in. You don't have to rely on STE if that's what you want me to admit; I am sure you can find other people to train up or already have to do similar work.

[atariksi]

I hardly think having a go at an artist who can no doubt draw better than you ever could by comparing hand drawn (possibly with a joystick, I don't think he had his pad then) to some wired/scanned in unoriginal rubbish is fair. Typical really, the people actually showing their skills get to take all the crap and the people talking the big talk but never backing up their words with proof think they're so much better.

 

It makes you wonder doesn't it...

...

Don't know what you're wondering, but I was actually praising STE's artistic abilities.

 

Really? then why when talking about how much better the A8 is at graphics do you target the one C64 artist who has joined this thread and disagreed with you and who hasn't done any C64 graphics since the 80s?

 

We are not all equal; Atari users have access to more colors and higher CPU speed. We can digitize imagery and automatically get nice pictures where C64 users have to rely on STE to generate good graphics.

 

Why not "rely on hand drawn" or some other phrase? You constantly say the A8s graphics are better and pronounce crap like..

 

The world is more beautiful if the C64 didn't exist with it color-distorted pictures.

 

..and expect us to believe you're then praising one of it's artists who you never heard of before?

 

 

I think someone has realised what an ass they were being and won't admit it.

 

 

Pete

 

I have been ignoring you because of your stupidity like you expressed above. I'll give you one more chance to see if you will wisen up. You are are so dull-headed that even praise/humor as interpreted as some sort of fight. Both of my statements are true. You would get better results with a bigger palette. And STE has done a great job given the restrictions he is in. You don't have to rely on STE if that's what you want me to admit; I am sure you can find other people to train up or already have to do similar work.

 

One more thing regarding STE, I haven't had much debate with him. I would prefer people like him to argue with since he kept his cool throughout the little debate that we did have.

[Barnacle boy]

Atari A8 Frogger Vs C64 Frogger.

 

Already been done. Thanks for the stereo view though. Should we cross our eyes and pretend the vids are in 3d?

 

 

You want a game that looked alot better on the atari?

 

How about Koronis Rift by Lucasfilm..

 

Already been done!

[TMR]

If I design a game that takes maximum advantage of the ATARI's features, and then go port it to the C=64 (that is, move most of the code involving the basic game mechanics over, and then try to build a similar looking game, using C=64's features) the C=64 version is probably not gonna look quite as nice as the atari version. Well hell... The game was DESIGNED around the capabilities/limitations of the ATARI.. And by the same token, if I design a game to take advantage of all the strongpoints of the C=64's hardware, I am gonna have a hell of a time making "the same game" on the atari, without making some serious changes/sacrifices.

 

Not according to some Atarians in this thread... but yup, that's how i see things too. i decided a few years back to aim at least some of what i'm coding at a specific platform rather than planning ahead to convert them, even if i don't always listen to myself and do daft stuff like trying to get the same puzzle game running on everything! =-)

[PeteD]

 

I have been ignoring you because of your stupidity like you expressed above. I'll give you one more chance to see if you will wisen up. You are are so dull-headed that even praise/humor as interpreted as some sort of fight. Both of my statements are true. You would get better results with a bigger palette. And STE has done a great job given the restrictions he is in. You don't have to rely on STE if that's what you want me to admit; I am sure you can find other people to train up or already have to do similar work.

 

 

More likely ignoring me because after our last exchange where you constantly tried to put words in my mouth, and then twisted everything you said to get out of admitting you were wrong. Please continue to ignore me, as emkay said it's like a child putting their hands in front of their eyes and thinking that means the bad thing has gone. Now you post was humorous as well? I admit I didn't see that one.. The fact remains that due to your attitude where anything you say is usually targeted against the C64 and it's users (see the quotes above), even if you were being humorous or attempting to praise Ste your comments come off as the total opposite.

 

Now by all means block me again if you can't deal with someone disagreeing with you because if wisening up means believing anything you say I'd rather be a dullard.

 

 

Pete

[PeteD]

 

One more thing regarding STE, I haven't had much debate with him. I would prefer people like him to argue with since he kept his cool throughout the little debate that we did have.

 

That's because you didn't try to put words into his mouth and constantly deny trying to do so. THAT is why I got pissed.

 

 

Pete