Atari v Commodore

[Rybags]

What is this "SIDless sound"?

 

C'mon Oswald. You're trying to pass turd off as pie.

 

Fair enough - they've probably worked hard to get individual samples to play relatively seamless like normal chip-tunes rather than just cramming a fixed portion of a downsampled Wav into RAM. But, even that GTIA sound that was recently posted sounds better.

[emkay]

I DL'd those "8 bit digis" when they were first posted.

 

They hardly sound 8-bit, in fact I'd call them crap.

 

The filter is the only real advantage of the c64. I wished the Atari had one. The sawtooth of POKEY would sound like from a 1000$ synth then. But this filter variation in music is a matter of taste as all chiptune music is.

Looking at Crownland and the logical mistakes that are done there, clearly shows that the A8 is capable of a Mayhem in Monsterland. Perhaps not at hires, but clearly with better and more colours.

 

Similar with the Ninja.... mostly a static picture with up to 3 sprites.... I see no problem of doing this crap on the A8.

Creatures-> look at Crownland

[Oswald]

The filter is the only real advantage of the c64.

 

the other advantages are virtual or what ? sprites, color ram, etc ? stop the gibberish blabbla.

 

Looking at Crownland and the logical mistakes that are done there, clearly shows that the A8 is capable of a Mayhem in Monsterland. Perhaps not at hires, but clearly with better and more colours.

 

better colors, huh speccy boy ?

"perhaps not in hires" not even in 160x200 take my screenshot and do it in g2f

 

 

Similar with the Ninja.... mostly a static picture with up to 3 sprites.... I see no problem of doing this crap on the A8.

Creatures-> look at Crownland

 

those r overlayed "multicolor" sprites in HIRES (320x) good luck with them I see huge impossibilities doing even this CRAP on a8

Crownland and Creatures are just not playing in the same league. do you dare to place their screenshots beside each other?

 

 

but again, do those screenshot in g2f stills speccy boy c64 does them as a game instead of mindless blabbla.

Edited December 5, 2008 by Oswald

[Oswald]

What is this "SIDless sound"?

 

C'mon Oswald. You're trying to pass turd off as pie.

 

Fair enough - they've probably worked hard to get individual samples to play relatively seamless like normal chip-tunes rather than just cramming a fixed portion of a downsampled Wav into RAM. But, even that GTIA sound that was recently posted sounds better.

 

those are 4 channel (but yes very primitive) mods at 8 bit.

that gtia sound was an 8 bit mod replayed in 64k? get off the speccy level my dear.

[Alison DeMeyer]

Now that schoolboy is obsessed with calling emkay a 'Speccyboy' (you losing it fast, schoolboy):

 

 

I was always glad that in UK the C64 was compared/schoolboy fighting with the Spectrum. The Atari 8 bit computer was WAAAYYY above those.

 

I'm going to quote Retro Gamer again:

 

Compared to the more popular home computers of the day, such as the ZX Spectrum and the Commodore 64, Atari 8 bit computers were often regarded as high-end.

Edited December 5, 2008 by Alison DeMeyer

[emkay]

The filter is the only real advantage of the c64.

 

the other advantages are virtual or what ? sprites, color ram, etc ? stop the gibberish blabbla.

 

 

Your "advatanges" are still technical possibilites. But they are restricted aswell.

The only thing you cannot gain with the best software on the Atari is the analog filter, cutting all dirt off the sounds, if needed.

 

 

Looking at Crownland and the logical mistakes that are done there, clearly shows that the A8 is capable of a Mayhem in Monsterland. Perhaps not at hires, but clearly with better and more colours.

 

better colors, huh speccy boy ?

 

Looking at the eye cancer pictures you post everytime results in the question "who is the Speccy boy" ?

 

 

 

"perhaps not in hires" not even in 160x200 take my screenshot and do it in g2f

 

 

Crownland and Creatures are just not playing in the same league. do you dare to place their screenshots beside each other?

 

Even with those logic mistakes, Crownland partially looks better than Mayhem already...

 

 

 

 

but again, do those screenshot in g2f stills speccy boy c64 does them as a game instead of mindless blabbla.

 

Well, the Amiga original graphics use around 45 colours for a table. One moment.... let me calculate.... .... the C64 one shows 16 colours. So why should we stick to only 16 colours if we can have a par with the Amiga?

And, btw, Don't you think it is a shame that two machines of almost the same time are so different? The "Amiga" was almost finished in 1982 and it could have been released in 1983....

Edited December 5, 2008 by emkay

[Oswald]

Your "advatanges" are still technical possibilites. But they are restricted aswell.

The only thing you cannot gain with the best software on the Atari is the analog filter, cutting all dirt off the sounds, if needed.

 

and adsr, and 16 bit pulse width, and ring mod, and sync, and filtering audio in, and waveforms, and 16 bit freq, and this was just the sid and just the official features of it. (and I left out the paddles)

 

Looking at the eye cancer pictures you post everytime results in the question "who is the Speccy boy" ?

 

speccy boy is who has arguments like eye cancer, and my colors are nicer than yours and similar bullshit.

 

 

 

but again, do those screenshot in g2f stills speccy boy c64 does them as a game instead of mindless blabbla.

 

Well, the Amiga original graphics use around 45 colours for a table. One moment.... let me calculate.... .... the C64 one shows 16 colours. So why should we stick to only 16 colours if we can have a par with the Amiga?

 

the c64 can do similarly 24 bit color, bullshit boy

 

 

And, btw, Don't you think it is a shame that two machines of almost the same time are so different? The "Amiga" was almost finished in 1982 and it could have been released in 1983....

 

By September 1983 the custom chips of the amiga werent even done, not to talk about the whole machine or os, etc. bullshit boy.

[emkay]

 

You really call this mix of pink-violett / green-yellow "nice" . Good Lord.....

 

the c64 can do similarly 24 bit color, bullshit boy

 

Seems, in you brain the C64 can also grow your children..

 

And, btw, Don't you think it is a shame that two machines of almost the same time are so different? The "Amiga" was almost finished in 1982 and it could have been released in 1983....

 

By September 1983 the custom chips of the amiga werent even done, not to talk about the whole machine or os, etc. bullshit boy.

 

What's mainly done after 82 was to give the chips different names. No one would have liked a PORTIA chip in a non Atari Computer...

[TMR]

...

>That's just arguing semantics again; you're calling two sprites working in tandem a single multicolour sprite,...

...

 

I distinguish between two monochrome sprites and one multicolor sprites via bit 5 of 53275.

 

The hardware maintains that there are two independent sprites involved in one multicolour object, i'm with the Atari on this one, sorry.

 

I'm not currently doing any block copies. Worst case you also need to subtract 800+ DMA cycles saved by interrupt structure.

 

How are two sprites passing on a scanline without block copy then?

[Heaven/TQA]

...

>That's just arguing semantics again; you're calling two sprites working in tandem a single multicolour sprite,...

...

 

I distinguish between two monochrome sprites and one multicolor sprites via bit 5 of 53275.

 

The hardware maintains that there are two independent sprites involved in one multicolour object, i'm with the Atari on this one, sorry.

 

I'm not currently doing any block copies. Worst case you also need to subtract 800+ DMA cycles saved by interrupt structure.

 

How are two sprites passing on a scanline without block copy then?

 

of course they are 2 sprites... 2 hpos registers need to be set, 2 blocks of data moved, 2 collision registers to be checked, 2 colour registers.... and there are 2 sprites left...

[emkay]

Anoter demonstration of "16 colours are not 16 colours, if they don't fit together.

 

 

 

Someone has built a remake of the game for the PSP:

 

 

Look: Colourfull with mainly the same colour count, but no eyecancer here.

 

The colours of the C64 clearly miss "some" brightness steps of the available colours.

[Oswald]

the c64 can do similarly 24 bit color, bullshit boy

 

Seems, in you brain the C64 can also grow your children..

 

just as possible as a 45 color last ninja clone on the a8.

 

 

And, btw, Don't you think it is a shame that two machines of almost the same time are so different? The "Amiga" was almost finished in 1982 and it could have been released in 1983....

 

By September 1983 the custom chips of the amiga werent even done, not to talk about the whole machine or os, etc. bullshit boy.

 

What's mainly done after 82 was to give the chips different names. No one would have liked a PORTIA chip in a non Atari Computer...

 

 

amiga corp was formed after mid 82, and the first prototype was shown in in 84 january. where the chips were still breadboards without true chip layout.

[Oswald]

Anoter demonstration of "16 colours are not 16 colours, if they don't fit together.

 

and another:

 

 

Edited December 5, 2008 by Oswald

[Bryan]

C64's bit depth of 4 is at 40*25 (color RAM resolution). Atari has same bit depth of 4 at 80*200. Both systems can stretch it via "tricks" which I consider compressed bit-depth.

Commodore has an additional color table. More bits go into generating the same size screen. It's fractionally better depth, but it helps.

[Bryan]

Oswald vs. emkay should be a TV pay-per-view special.

[Crazyace]

Anoter demonstration of "16 colours are not 16 colours, if they don't fit together.

 

 

 

Someone has built a remake of the game for the PSP:

 

 

Look: Colourfull with mainly the same colour count, but no eyecancer here.

 

The colours of the C64 clearly miss "some" brightness steps of the available colours.

 

This is a strange comparision - but for me it actually reinforces how good the original C64 game looked.

 

( perhaps you need to start a topic at lemon about c64 vs PSP )

[spookt]

I ran out of popcorn - when is the intermission ?

[Oswald]

I am waiting for emkay's 45 color last ninja mockups with 3 hires sprites.

[emkay]

Anoter demonstration of "16 colours are not 16 colours, if they don't fit together.

 

and another:

 

 

 

 

The only point this pictures demonstrate is that on the C64 some really good artists do their work. We don't have much of them on the Atari Side.

 

Particular the "Cat" picture shows where's the colouring of the C64 going. You see it in most pictures on the C64 where the colours fit : Crazy and funny pictures. The upper picture would definatly win with a better depth of view.

 

28 colours and none is at the wrong place , including a nice depth of view.

 

Edited December 5, 2008 by emkay

[Oswald]

 

sorry, but the colors are not fitting, so using your algorithm that reduces the picture to 10 colors also it looks like a cartoon, and totally unnatural because of the wrong and unfitting colors. shows nicely also how hardly even dithering is possible. which leads to the crazy style: a bunny holding a computer ? wtf?

 

I'm waiting for the 45 color Last Ninja mockup with 3 hires sprites

 

edit:

 

furthermore comparing with this one, becomes more then obvious that the possible color density when the a8 sweats bricks is far from being close when the c64 is sleeping and showing a simple basic hires pic.

 

Edited December 5, 2008 by Oswald

[emkay]

I am waiting for emkay's 45 color last ninja mockups with 3 hires sprites.

 

This picture with simple PM overlay and some DLIs shows more than 20 colours already...

 

 

The x-mas tree is one of the hidden agents

[Oswald]

I am waiting for emkay's 45 color last ninja mockups with 3 hires sprites.

 

This picture with simple PM overlay and some DLIs shows more than 20 colours already...

 

 

The x-mas tree is one of the hidden agents

 

yeah, well shows whats possible, insert a rainbow raster somewhere and voila its 45 colors

[Oswald]

[frogstar_robot]

You can program for the worst case and assume certain things in the PCs case. But in real-time programming scenarios when something critical needs to be done, you do need to know exactly how many cycles it takes and not an average. So what if a video skips a frame once in a while or if the word processor/browser takes a few thousand extra cycles initially than later, but what happens if you want to control an external device or update a display for some medical system that can't afford to go out of sync. It gets worse w/newere OSes with all these background tasks running that people have no control over (especially if the software is spyware and hogging up your resources).

 

That is what a RTOS and/or kernel level programming is for. Medical devices with such requirements don't run things like Windows or even Linux. Things like QNX give you time guarantees though what you have are dead reliable high resolution timers and rather high-level APIs rather than access to the bare metal unless you're developing or modifying drivers for specialty devices on those systems.

 

Low-cost embedded systems are pretty much the last bastion of code that has to hug and squeeze every last bit of performance out the bare metal.

[emkay]

The picture above was a 2 minute editing in G2F. If it is possible to have this much colours in hires. Do you think they are less when optimized in colour resolution? I can only show in G2F what G2F is capable of....

 

 

 

yeah, well shows whats possible, insert a rainbow raster somewhere and voila its 45 colors

 

 

Sorry, only 38 here