eBay Traffic Plummeting

[Artlover]

1. No money orders, only Paypal or credit card.

#1 This is not a bad thing. Unless you are a child, without a bank ac or ccard (or putting up a pointless boycott ) why would you chance using a money order?

 

How about the simple fact that it's a legal form of tender and it should be MY decision if I want to accept them or not.

 

Besides, there are alot of people who don't have bank accounts or CC's. There are fraud conscience people out there who refuse to forms of payment that could in any way compromise their identity and all their assetts associated with it. Not to mention, why would anyone want to tie up a bank account or something in with that shaddy paypal anyways so that they can do whatever the hell they want with your money against your will.

[shadow460]

Money order: 19 cents plus 41 cents to mail it.

Prepaid credit card transaction: $2 to add money to the card, $1 every time you charge something.

 

I'll use a money order any day.

[jetset]

Not to mention, why would anyone want to tie up a bank account or something in with that shaddy paypal anyways so that they can do whatever the hell they want with your money against your will.

 

Ok this is wrong on so many levels I find it hard to begin.

If Paypal is so very shady, why use Ebay to begin with? Aren't they owned the same? And, there's nothing against your will is there? Ebay is not a public utility, nor is it a public road, or your own personal or intellectual property. How can anything they put in their rule(s) be against your will?

 

I really love the passion, but Ebay is not a 1st amendment right or anything peeps. If they want to only accept credit cards, paypal, fish, salt, barter...well, find a better alternative (or deal with their rules).

 

Oh...PS, money orders are not a legal form of tender. Go walk into a bank you don't have an account with and see how fast they'll tell you they will not cash it for you. Even if the money order is drawn on that bank 99% of the time they won't cash it. Like Ebay, they have a right to either accept or not accept it.

[Captain Beard]

PS, money orders are not a legal form of tender. Go walk into a bank you don't have an account with and see how fast they'll tell you they will not cash it for you.

That's pretty spurious logic.

Try walking into a bank you don't have an account with and see if they'll cash in your giant jar of change for cash.

If they refuse, does that mean coins aren't legal tender?

The real question is, why would you try banking at a bank that you don't have an account at in the first place?

Even if the money order is drawn on that bank 99% of the time they won't cash it.

You just made that up, dude.

If a bank issues a money order, they will absolutely honor it, just like if you get a money order from the post office, any post office will cash it, and if you get a money order from a local Kwik-Trip, then any other Kwik-Trip in the country will honor it. And a bank you have an account at will take any of them.

 

What purpose would money orders serve if they couldn't be cashed anywhere?

[jetset]

PS, money orders are not a legal form of tender. Go walk into a bank you don't have an account with and see how fast they'll tell you they will not cash it for you.

That's pretty spurious logic.

Try walking into a bank you don't have an account with and see if they'll cash in your giant jar of change for cash.

If they refuse, does that mean coins aren't legal tender?

The real question is, why would you try banking at a bank that you don't have an account at in the first place?

Even if the money order is drawn on that bank 99% of the time they won't cash it.

You just made that up, dude.

If a bank issues a money order, they will absolutely honor it, just like if you get a money order from the post office, any post office will cash it, and if you get a money order from a local Kwik-Trip, then any other Kwik-Trip in the country will honor it. And a bank you have an account at will take any of them.

 

What purpose would money orders serve if they couldn't be cashed anywhere?

 

Nope...January will be 20 years in banking for me. I certainly did not make that up. Sure some of the mom and pop outfits may I could be wrong to a degree there, but most major banks will not. It is a liability/fraud issue. If you don't bank there the chances of fraud are VERY high with non-customers. Account holders already have been put through a verification process so all the have to do is verify your identity. Probably beyond squeezing an extra buck out of you that's why Ebay doesn't want money orders. Cuts down on fraud and scams.

Banks will however cash in change for non-customers so long as it's rolled btw.

[Captain Beard]

It is a liability/fraud issue. If you don't bank there the chances of fraud are VERY high with non-customers. Account holders already have been put through a verification process so all the have to do is verify your identity.

 

How does any of this apply to money orders cashed at the same bank that issued them?

Money orders are already paid for by the time someone tries to cash them, so what verification is needed, other than that you're the person trying to cash it? That's what a picture ID is for. The money order can be verified on the spot if it's the issuing bank, just like the post office can do for postal money orders.

 

I actually just called my bank and they assured me anybody can cash their money orders and as far as they knew, that was standard -- the problems with fraud only come up if the money order was issued elsewhere and in those cases, they are apparently less accepting than I had claimed earlier (although for customers in good standing, they said they'd give the benefit of the doubt and cash it, but if it turns out to be fraudulent, they'll take those funds back post haste and nail you with a fee to boot.) So my apologies for dismissing your position.

 

I really am sorry for being a jerk in my last post (it's been one of those days) but my own experiences and the word of the bank manager I just spoke to seem to contradict you. The only issues I've ever had with money orders is with foreign ones and that was always an exchange rate issue, not one of security.

Edited November 28, 2008 by Captain Beard

[Artlover]

If Paypal is so very shady, why use Ebay to begin with?

Exactly. Why DO people use Ebay? All they do is screw over the little guy and support big sellers and scammers.

 

Aren't they owned the same?

Which wasn't always the case.

 

It is now, and is part of the problem as it creates anti-trust issues. Even more so now that they are pushing Paypal only policies. And why they are in many courts across the world trying to defend this issue from all the lawsuits.

 

And, there's nothing against your will is there? Ebay is not a public utility, nor is it a public road, or your own personal or intellectual property. How can anything they put in their rule(s) be against your will?

I didn't say Ebay, I said Paypal. Not exactly one in the same.

 

To that end. I guess technicly, nothing is against your will since everything is mentioned in their Terms of Service statement. All 37 printed pages of it. So Paypal taking control of your personal bank account and freezing/withdrawing funds as they see fit, or forcing you to waive your right to using CC chargebacks for "unauthorized transactions" isn't against your will persay since they specificly declare it. Never mind the ethical or legal ramifications of their policies.

 

Alot of the problems stem from the fact that they are unregulated. Which means they are under no legal oblogation to follow rules that banks and credit card companies have to. One of the biggies is that paypal is NOT required to refund you for unauthorized or bad transactions. Thats right. Someone could hack your account, make a purchase, and you are not "entitled" to get that stolen money back! Someone could ship you an empty box, you're not "entitled" to shit. Your protection is dependant on them choosing to help you when they feel like it. That's really nice when it's your bank account associated to your paypal account. You're just flat out screwed. Atleast with a CC, you can still violate PP's ToS and get a chargeback issued yourself, but you'll loose your PP account for doing it. But again, it's ok because they document these policies and you don't have to use them, right....

 

It's a catch 22 by the way, since you can't use Ebay if you're not going through PP in some mannor now, if you don't like PP, then you can't use Ebay. Despite the two entities being something different and unrelated to one another beyond owned/operated by the same people. Word of the day: Anti-trust.

 

BTW, they have often been less then forthcomming with stating their policies in the past. They lost a lawsuit a few years ago regarding the above, where they used to claim they provided the same rights and protections of a traditional credit card transaction, when infact they didn't and still don't. What was the great outcome. A measley $150,000 dollar fine and they rewrote their ToS so as not to overstate your rights.

 

I really love the passion, but Ebay is not a 1st amendment right or anything peeps. If they want to only accept credit cards, paypal, fish, salt, barter...well, find a better alternative (or deal with their rules).

Ebay is not the one selling/buying anything. They are a 3rd party who's purpose is to bring buyers and sellers together. To that end, I fail to see why they have any inherent right to dictate the forms of payment the people who are buying/selling can use.

 

Oh...PS, money orders are not a legal form of tender.

 

So the banks and post offices sell worthless illegal tender with the government's blessing and regulation how and why then?

 

Seriously, that was the the most UNfactually ignorant thing I think I have ever read by anyone in my entire life.

 

Of course they ARE legal, otherwise they wouldn't be sold and accepted, wouldn't be regulated. Wouldn't account for over 800 millions transactions totaling over $140 million dollars a year just in the USA.

 

Go walk into a bank you don't have an account with and see how fast they'll tell you they will not cash it for you.

Any bank you don't have an account with won't do shit for you period. Captain Beard's example of change is perfect.

 

Even if the money order is drawn on that bank 99% of the time they won't cash it.

I have to concure with Captain Beard on this too. You just completely made that up, didn't you. I've never had a problem cashing a money order. Not even convenience store ones. No one I've ever sent a money order to has ever had problems cashing them either.

 

Sure, issuers won't cash them if they suspect they are fraudulent. They also won't accept checks or cash that they suspect are fraudulent either. Guess that means checks and cash aren't legal tender either?

 

I will give you this. SOME banks in SOME situations are less likely to accept money orders IF they are very high dollar amounts and/or issued from overseas. To that end, using the Post Office to cash money orders is the best option since the systems they use can verify their authenticity instantly and PO issued MO's are virtualy fraud proof.

[jetset]

Umm..no again I made nothing up. But I'm not going to argue other than to say that I guess my years of banking mean nothing to one person who (supposedly) called their bank and the who makes it sound as if he cashes money orders regularly (talk about something made up).

 

Meanwhile it changes nothing. Ebay says no money orders. Their site, their rules. You no like? You no use.

 

Pretty simple really.

[STGuy1040]

So... Does anyone have any suggestions on where to buy and sell non-video-game stuff? I still have loads of classic computer stuff I need to liquidate, and yes, the ever increasing slices that Ebay bites off is pissing me off.

 

Have a yard sale. If you people want to sell your wares with 100% no fees tha's the way to go.

 

Title says it all. I wonder why?

 

http://www.alleyinsider.com/2008/11/ebay-traffic-plummeting

 

 

(Cough) New feedback system (Cough)

 

Only sellers dislike the new feedback system. If you're a buyer it's the best change they've made. Ever.

 

 

I fail to see how this change is fair to honest sellers.

[STGuy1040]

So... Does anyone have any suggestions on where to buy and sell non-video-game stuff? I still have loads of classic computer stuff I need to liquidate, and yes, the ever increasing slices that Ebay bites off is pissing me off.

 

Have a yard sale. If you people want to sell your wares with 100% no fees tha's the way to go.

 

Title says it all. I wonder why?

 

http://www.alleyinsider.com/2008/11/ebay-traffic-plummeting

 

 

(Cough) New feedback system (Cough)

 

Only sellers dislike the new feedback system. If you're a buyer it's the best change they've made. Ever.

 

I just wanted to add that it's a lop-sided system that doesn't offer a fair compromise between seller and buyer. As a seller you should have the right to neg a bad buyer who doesn't pay or causes trouble for no good reason. You find this new system great because you now have the flexibility to penalize a seller without retribution. Just as many bad buyers abused the feedback system, so if you want to get down to the nitty-gritty, the same penalty should have been placed on buyers.

 

It's like stripping the seller of his rights to tell his side of the story. It's ok for Joe six pack to get a hair across his ass and neg the seller because the Post Office delayed his package (which would not be the seller's fault), but it's not all right for the seller to neg a bad buyer because they refused to pay (for example). If this is your idea of fair then I believe you're in the minority here.

[Captain Beard]

But I'm not going to argue other than to say that I guess my years of banking mean nothing to one person who (supposedly) called their bank and the who makes it sound as if he cashes money orders regularly (talk about something made up).

Well, I did call my bank and I do cash money orders fairly regularly, as a lot of my record store customers pay me with them (I only accept PayPal for my eBay Atari store anyway, just because I get so many less deadbeats that way, a problem I don't really encounter at my record site.) And I routinely deposit them in my bank account without a hassle, regardless of their origin.

 

But that's really not relevant anyway, as we were talking specifically about the ability to cash money orders at the bank which issued them, which is something I never do (I don't have many local customers, but none of them pay me with MOs.) That's what I called my bank to ask about and that's what they confirmed they would do for anyone with a picture ID (they also said they'd gladly cash any check written by an account holder, even if the recipient had no account with them. Again, they just require a picture ID.)

 

Meanwhile it changes nothing. Ebay says no money orders. Their site, their rules. You no like? You no use.

 

Pretty simple really.

On this point I couldn't agree with you more.

There's no law compelling anyone to accept payment in an undesired form.

Artlover -- you say that eBay's not selling anything, but they are. They're selling a service. Would you argue that a flea market doesn't have the right to decide how to accept payment for booth rental because they're really just providing a place for buyers and sellers to meet?

 

It's not really any different from a store clerk refusing to take all pennies, which I did a lot when I worked at a video store a few blocks away from the local dorms. Occasionally, someone would insist I was breaking the law and that I had to accept all forms of legal tender. But that's simply not true. My goods, my services -- I can refuse to do business with anyone I want for whatever reason I want as long as it ain't bigotry. Luckily, jackasses come in all shapes, sizes, colors and creeds, so I was well within my right to say "No dice."

[Artlover]

Umm..no again I made nothing up. But I'm not going to argue other than to say that I guess my years of banking mean nothing to one person who (supposedly) called their bank and the who makes it sound as if he cashes money orders regularly (talk about something made up).

Well, again according to the US Treasury Dept., Money Orders have account for over 800 millions transactions totaling over 140 million dollars per year since the mid 2000's. So obviously someone somewhere is cashing the things and obviously your claim of 99% of them are refused is not accurate in the slightest.

 

Further, not accepted doesn't equal not legal. Which was the big sticky that started this to begin with. Really, if we used that confused logic, then NO currency is "legal" since some places don't accept CC's, and some plces don't accept cash.

 

Artlover -- you say that eBay's not selling anything, but they are. They're selling a service. Would you argue that a flea market doesn't have the right to decide how to accept payment for booth rental because they're really just providing a place for buyers and sellers to meet?

????? If Ebay wants to make their "booth rental" paypal only, that's one thing. But that's NOT what they are doing.

 

Would you argue that a fleamarket has the right to tell a seller renting one of their booths what forms of payment they are allowed to accept from buyers when selling their stuff? - That IS what Ebay is doing.

[+poobah]

You just made that up, dude.

If a bank issues a money order, they will absolutely honor it, just like if you get a money order from the post office, any post office will cash it, and if you get a money order from a local Kwik-Trip, then any other Kwik-Trip in the country will honor it. And a bank you have an account at will take any of them.

 

What purpose would money orders serve if they couldn't be cashed anywhere?

 

Dont want to step into this one, but:

 

1) Post Offices do NOT cash money orders, they only issue them. Spent about 15 minutes in line behind a lady getting this explained to her last week.

 

2) Most C-stores also do not cash money orders. Used to work for a chain long time ago- they are only issuing agents for the money order company. They will give you a claim form to send in, but that's about it.

[Bratwurst]

1) Post Offices do NOT cash money orders, they only issue them. Spent about 15 minutes in line behind a lady getting this explained to her last week.

 

http://www.usps.com/money/sendingmoney/mon...ers/welcome.htm

 

 

Domestic Money Orders

 

Purchase with cash, debit card, or traveler's check

Valid for an unlimited period

Can be cashed at any Post Office or can be deposited or negotiated at your financial institution

Replace damaged, lost, or stolen money orders

[STGuy1040]

Would you argue that a fleamarket has the right to tell a seller renting one of their booths what forms of payment they are allowed to accept from buyers when selling their stuff? - That IS what Ebay is doing.

 

Bingo!

[jetset]

Would you argue that a fleamarket has the right to tell a seller renting one of their booths what forms of payment they are allowed to accept from buyers when selling their stuff? - That IS what Ebay is doing.

 

Yes I would 100% argue they can state what rules people have to follow. Again...we're not talking about a human rights issue. A better way to ask would be...

If you wanted to rent a booth at a flea market, and one of their rules is that you can only accept credit cards as payment, no cash for security reasons, would you DEMAND they change their rules to accommodate YOU and YOUR niche customers who want to use cash?

 

Just for review...YOU do not own the flea market, YOU are only THEIR renting space. Do you honestly think you should have carte blanche to break/alter/change the rules they have in place just because you don't like them?

 

 

Joes Flea Market says no money orders. Their property, their rules. You no like? You no use.

 

Sorry for the sarcasm, but I just don't get why it's ok to dictate how someone else runs their website.

 

Quick Edit:

Just to be clear, as I said several times in this thread and in the past...I am very, truly, honestly sorry for the honest sellers. Certainly very many play by not only Ebays rules but also the rules of common courtesy and good commerce. My gripes are aimed that the majority who have played games, and twisted the rules to their liking via a loophole or loosely enforced rule. Unfortunately the latter outnumbers the former BIG time. BIGBIGBIG time.

Edited November 29, 2008 by jetset

[lemoncurry]

I am very, truly, honestly sorry for the honest sellers. Certainly very many play by not only Ebays rules but also the rules of common courtesy and good commerce. My gripes are aimed that the majority who have played games, and twisted the rules to their liking via a loophole or loosely enforced rule. Unfortunately the latter outnumbers the former BIG time. BIGBIGBIG time.

 

Sure is odd how in the thousand or so buys I've made on eBay, I've never felt taken advantage of by this so-called BIG time majority. Just lucky I guess.

 

Then again, being a seller as well, maybe I was not freaked out when someone wanted to know I was happy before leaving me a positive feedback?

 

This hidden bidder/buyer crap is pathetic, though. If fake Second Chance offers are such a problem, then they should just lose them.

[Captain Beard]

Most C-stores also do not cash money orders. Used to work for a chain long time ago- they are only issuing agents for the money order company. They will give you a claim form to send in, but that's about it.

yeah, I was definitely wrong on this one.

I was actually talking to some friends earlier tonight who said the same thing (and assured me I better be prepared to eat some crow.)

So consider me corrected, thanks.

 

As for the post office and money orders, the confusion you encountered was most likely that the woman was trying to cash a non-postal money order, and that's a no-no. Much like being stuck behind some goofball trying to pick up a UPS package at the post office.

 

Would you argue that a fleamarket has the right to tell a seller renting one of their booths what forms of payment they are allowed to accept from buyers when selling their stuff?

Of course they do. Why wouldn't they? Why shouldn't they?

And in fact, some do. There are permanent indoor flea markets which have rental spaces for dealers who are not actually present and the checkout process is taken care of by the site. Many of those will not accept checks. Is that wrong? Why shouldn't a business be able to impose rules on those who accept their services? Are there any kinds of business agreements that come without conditions? And as jetset said, if you don't like the service someone offers, don't buy it -- in this case, just sell your goods elsewhere. Don't get me wrong, I think it's monumentally stupid that eBay's gone to only PayPal, but it's surely not a violation of my rights as a seller -- and really, when you think about it, there's absolutely nothing stopping me from accepting any form of payment I want, y'know? My Atari stuff all says PayPal only, but sometimes people hit the BIN and then e-mail to say "oh, can I pay with a money order?" Sometimes I say yes, sometimes I say no, but eBay doesn't know a thing about it either way.

[jetset]

This hidden bidder/buyer crap is pathetic, though. If fake Second Chance offers are such a problem, then they should just lose them.

 

That's one other thing I want to be clear about, as much as I like some...there are several changes I don't get either. This one is in the top three. At least the new feedback and paypal only issue(s) are a benefit to buyers. The hidden buyer one is boggling. It benefits nobody. Not the buyer, not the seller, not ebay. I almost wonder if it's some federal commerce privacy b.s. thing.

[Atarian7]

You just made that up, dude.

If a bank issues a money order, they will absolutely honor it, just like if you get a money order from the post office, any post office will cash it, and if you get a money order from a local Kwik-Trip, then any other Kwik-Trip in the country will honor it. And a bank you have an account at will take any of them.

 

What purpose would money orders serve if they couldn't be cashed anywhere?

 

Dont want to step into this one, but:

 

1) Post Offices do NOT cash money orders, they only issue them. Spent about 15 minutes in line behind a lady getting this explained to her last week.

 

2) Most C-stores also do not cash money orders. Used to work for a chain long time ago- they are only issuing agents for the money order company. They will give you a claim form to send in, but that's about it.

 

Post offices cash postal money orders. I have done this a few times myself.

[+poobah]

1) Post Offices do NOT cash money orders, they only issue them. Spent about 15 minutes in line behind a lady getting this explained to her last week.

 

http://www.usps.com/money/sendingmoney/mon...ers/welcome.htm

 

 

Domestic Money Orders

 

Purchase with cash, debit card, or traveler's check

Valid for an unlimited period

Can be cashed at any Post Office or can be deposited or negotiated at your financial institution

Replace damaged, lost, or stolen money orders

 

well, now I'd like to print that out and bring it down to the post office...

The lady in front of me was *pissed*

 

Thanks for the update.

[+LS650]

Yeah, yeah, eBay sucks.... but where else are you gonna go?

 

Where I live, forget Goodwill-type stores or pawn shops: they've been cleaned out for years.

The ads in Craigslist or Kijiji are for PS2s and Xboxs; I almost never see anything more than a generation old. Chase the Chuck Wagon? Great to have some competition for eBay, but the fact is that eBay has thousands of more items.

 

If I'm looking for something rare or old, eBay is the only option.

[shadow460]

Oh...PS, money orders are not a legal form of tender. Go walk into a bank you don't have an account with and see how fast they'll tell you they will not cash it for you. Even if the money order is drawn on that bank 99% of the time they won't cash it. Like Ebay, they have a right to either accept or not accept it.

 

Exactly right. In my experience, most banks will cash checks that are drawn from one of their accounts. If you have a check that's written to you by a member of Bank of Oklahoma, you can cash it at bank of Oklahoma with photo ID only whether or not you have an account. On the other hand, get a money order from nearly any place in town, and you will quickly find out that it cannot be cashed anywhere. It can be deposited into your bank, and if you have enough money in your account, you can withdraw an equal amount to the money order so it appears that you have "cashed" it.

 

There are two ways I know of to make money orders easier to deal with. One is to simply deposit the money order into your bank account. Several days later the funds are available to you. Two is to request (or send) postal money orders only, which can be cashed at any post office. They can also be used to pay the cost of shipping items.

 

As for me, I'm old fashioned so I actually take my items to the post office for shipping. I'll usually stop by the bank and deposit the MO I got as payment the next day. If I get a postal MO, it's even easier since all I gotta do is take it to the post office with me.

 

What else did jetset say, though? If you don't like the Paypal only policy, then don't use ebay?

 

Yup, right again. If ya'll all want ebay to rot in ____ so badly, why even try to buy or sell anything there? Why do you continue to support them? My money's going to the local shops once again, like Game X Change or (much as I hate to admit it) Vintage Stock.

My last ebay transaction was kind of rough, but the seller did work everything out. I dunno if I left feedback, but if so, it's positive since I got what I ordered. That's the second time in the last six months I've had trouble with an ebay seller. I'm lenient. Most people would have negged this seller (rightfully so) and not had a second thought about it.

 

Like they say in Van-Uber: Rest in Pieces, ebay!

[kevincal]

Yeah, yeah, eBay sucks.... but where else are you gonna go?

 

Where I live, forget Goodwill-type stores or pawn shops: they've been cleaned out for years.

The ads in Craigslist or Kijiji are for PS2s and Xboxs; I almost never see anything more than a generation old. Chase the Chuck Wagon? Great to have some competition for eBay, but the fact is that eBay has thousands of more items.

 

If I'm looking for something rare or old, eBay is the only option.

 

More like HUNDREDS of thousands more gaming items. Maybe even a million... So sure, eBay fees suck. But at the same time, you'll get a hell of a lot more bids on eBay than CTCW as a seller... And as a buyer you'll have a hell of a better selection to choose from on eBay...

 

Also, if Chase the ChuckWagon grows any significant amount, eBay will just offer the owner of CTCW an irresistable amount of money and just eat it up... Kinda sad, but probably true...

Edited November 30, 2008 by kevincal

[Jakenut86]

Yeah I like Chuck Wagon, can usually find pretty good deals on jag games. Just got a loose Theme Park for cheap there. But I see what everyones saying in that ebay is more mainstream and as soon as the chuck wagon becomes too big ebay will probably just buy it out. Oh well it will be good while it lasts I guess.