Dreamcast was better than the PS2

[Artlover]

And you know the biggest thing that bugs me about you DC fanboys

FYI, I'm not a fanboy. Never have been with any system, never will be. I've got an ass load of consoles extending from Coleco Telstar to Xbox 360. At one time or another I have both bashed and supported all of them. I have no loyality to any of them. Whats good is good, whats bad is bad.

 

To that end however, BS is BS, and refusing to accept BS and trying to educate others who choose to believe BS does not a fanboy make.

 

Isn't GAMEPLAY supposed to matter more than GRAPHICS? YES... And the PS2 has this in spades over the DC. The FACT (yes... FACT) remains and will always remain and will always be the reason the PS2 is better (factually) than the DC.

Since Sega never allowed the console to exist long enough for anyone to know one way or the other, no, this is NOT a fact.

 

You do know what the meaning of the word "fact" is, don't you? Here's a hint: Opinion based on incomplete data is not a fact. Might want to file that away for the future.

 

The Ps2 just has a lot more games and GOOD games than the DC! And that's it! Ya the DC died early, whatever. IN THE END, the PS2 won and the DC died. End of story.

<sigh>

 

No "whatever". It's a completely valid point that you choose to ignore because the whole PS2 is better argument falls apart when it's considered.

 

Further, the DC did not "die". PS2 didn't win some contest that caused it's demise. The DC was terminated by Sega because they were bleeding money, and the DC, while successfull (and that IS a fact based on it's sales numbers while it was allowed to exist), wasn't going to keep them afloat. It was either abandond hardware or fail as an entity.

[dreamcastrip]

Soul Calibur is just another boring and dull fighting game *yawns* Ya it's pretty, like any other DC game. But like any other DC game, it's just another really short, arcadey type of game that gets boring in no time.. That's why the DC failed, people got bored of the games quickly. You "hardcore" people can't seem to understand that. It cracks me up that you all think people who prefer the PS2 over the DC somehow aren't as hardcore as DC fans... The problem with DC fans is you are all emotionally scarred by Sega, and don't know how to let go of their last, precious system (in your mind). So you defend your system against the evil corporate giant to the death, even if you are dead wrong. Personally, I grew out of the whole fanboy phase around the age of 16. Seems a lot of you don't know how to grow up and see things for how they really are, instead of how you feel (your inner fanboy).

 

Just to reitterate. I love many systems from all makers. I chose the Genesis over the SNES back in 1991 and still love my Genesis to this day. I am a Sega fan, but I'm also a Sony fan. As I love lots of games on the PS1 and 2. I can't say the same for the DC. The system just bored me after I got over the pretty graphics. The games only entertained me for such short periods of time.

 

And you know the biggest thing that bugs me about you DC fanboys.. You ALWAYS bring up graphics as your main argument about why the DC is better than the PS2.

 

Ok, even if the DC's graphics were better (which they aren't), the thing that most REAL hardcore gamers agree, is that its the GAMES that matter. Isn't GAMEPLAY supposed to matter more than GRAPHICS? YES... And the PS2 has this in spades over the DC. The FACT (yes... FACT) remains and will always remain and will always be the reason the PS2 is better (factually) than the DC. The Ps2 just has a lot more games and GOOD games than the DC! And that's it! Ya the DC died early, whatever. IN THE END, the PS2 won and the DC died. End of story.

Are deliberately trying to flame with your heavily opinionated views presented as "fact" once they've been processed by your somewhat unique thought processes?

 

To say "Soul Calibur is just another boring and dull fighting game" is one of the most breathtakingly dismissive statements I've read in many years. The game is widely acknowledged as an absolute AAA classic only recently surpassed in its fighting sub-genre by the recent Soul Calibur IV on PS3/360. You personally may not care much for it, which you're of course entitled to, but to deride it as you did smacked of jealousy and spite as you singularly failed to present any valid argument. The game has a whole new mode attached to above what the arcade featured lengthening its single player value immeasurably.

 

Whilst I don't much care for the views of Famitsu nowadays it was once seen as some sort of "gaming bible" and they rated the game as 10/10. The next console game to achieve that same score was GTA IV which was nearly a whole decade later. In other words, no PS2 game ever released was rated as highly by them as a "mere" DC launch game.

 

You have a point to a certain degree in portraying DC as a system which featured among its better releases many arcade conversions and "shorter" games. As far as I was concerned this was a major strength of DC and one of the reasons I enjoyed it so much at the time. I'd become, and still are, bored rigid with console games requiring one to learn complex control schemes whereby I'd have to pause the game to check the manual to discover which button presses or combination of button presses executed a desired move. You're right to say the masses at the time desired longer/more involved gaming experiences and that's fair enough but it certainly wasn't what I hankered for. Give me innovative pick-up-and-play fun titles any day over overly serious drawn out affairs.

 

Its rather easy to perceive PS2 owners in the main as not being "hardcore" because at launch in Japan sales of The Matrix DVD outstripped sales of any game. The system launched in Japan with no game even approaching what could be seen as AAA. Iirc, the game that many people preferred most was Fantavision which if we're honest was more of a pretty graphical demo than a real game. The whole PlayStation brand from the get go was marketed as a lifestyle product aimed at the so called "clubbing generation". The fact franchises such as Tekken were sweet looking button mashers also goes some way to explaining the perception of the "PlayStation Generation" (another BS Sony marketing term) too when other consoles had deeper experiences such as the Virtua Fighter series. I wouldn't wish to characterise all PS2 owners as being Madden/FIFA etc fans there's more than a degree of truth in that.

 

"Emotionally scarred"? I guess it could be argued I maybe that to the extent that imo the video games industry has been all the worse since Sega withdrew from being a console manufacturer. I don't see that as necessarily being a Sega fanboy in itself but more of a sadness for what was obvious was going to happen to the industry as a whole. Sega at its peak regularly offered fun and innovative games unlike the play-it-safe me-too gaming by numbers world in which we live - apart from occasional and all too rare exceptions. I didn't necessarily feel "emotionally scarred" that a company so hopelessly managed failed in its mission.

 

I almost choked reading your opinion-presented-as-fact views on gameplay. I'm not gonna waste any time debating such subjective "claims".

 

You really need to get over your limited thinking in relation to who "won". Your contributions seemingly forever centre on the number of systems and games sold as some kind of barometer of quality. Its a futile argument as by your logic games such as Nintendogs, FIFA and Wii Fit must all be AAA titles whereas Rez, Panzer Dragoon Saga and Okami must all be substandard.

 

Your constant need to characterise those who don't subscribe to your views as being fanboys possibly reveals more about you personally than it does most others who've posted in this semi-amusing thread. I'd hazard to guess those constant fanboy accusations have led others here to conclude there's actually only one real deluded individual posting here and that's its you. You cannot truly accept that others in this world have alternative views to you and if they personally think DC is "better" than your beloved PS2 then that's fine. Some of your recent posts have painted you as a control freak, among other issues, needing to have the final say and who seeks to bully others into accepting your own rather limited one dimensional point of view.

Edited April 28, 2009 by dreamcastrip

[AtticGamer]

It's about time the topic got renamed to COULD HAVE instead of WAS. The current title is just unacceptable. DC was not better than the PS2, maybe in 2000 it was even, but after that it got squashed in my opinion.

 

I'm not a PS2 fanboy, I actually prefer the GC (but it's not better than PS2) but the DC fanboys are annoying as hell with their fantasies and dreams.

Edited April 28, 2009 by AtticGamer

[DracIsBack]

Soul Calibur is just another boring and dull fighting game *yawns*

 

No, you - in your personal subjective opinion - consider it boring and dull. Even though you didn't like it, a lot of other people did. What makes you right and people who enjoyed the game wrong?

 

 

 

But like any other DC game, it's just another really short, arcadey type of game that gets boring in no time

 

Now you've gone from personal subjective opinions expressed as "fact" to sweeping generalizations. I'm in awe of the fact that you found the time to play all 250 or so Dreamcast games in depth to come to this conclusion that they're all "short, arcading and boring in no time"

 

.. That's why the DC failed, people got bored of the games quickly

 

So you've done a statistically significant survey of Dreamcast owners to determine their satisfaction and longevity with the console, have you? You getting board with the games quickly is not the same as masses of people getting bored with the games quickly. And Sega's failings are well documented. Obviously, you haven't read any of the links I posted which actually do talk about why the Dreamcast failed.

 

It cracks me up that you all think people who prefer the PS2 over the DC somehow aren't as hardcore as DC fans...

 

Really? Every last one of us thinks that...? However did you find time to talk to us all ...?

 

As I love lots of games on the PS1 and 2. I can't say the same for the DC. The system just bored me after I got over the pretty graphics. The games only entertained me for such short periods of time.

 

Good for you! Why didn't you just say that instead of saying that people in general got bored quickly and that's why the Dreamcast failed. It failed *for you*. Don't try and rewrite history.

 

 

The FACT (yes... FACT) remains and will always remain and will always be the reason the PS2 is better (factually) than the DC.

 

How is it a fact? You prefer the library. What makes your opinion right and others opinions wrong?

 

I can appreciate why you're getting annoyed. Certainly I'm getting annoyed with your attempts to tell people they are full of shit for liking the Dreamcast over the PS2 because you personally preferred the PS2.

Edited April 28, 2009 by DracIsBack

[kevincal]

I'm not saying at all people are full of shit for LIKING the DC over the PS2. I'm say people are full of shit for saying the DC is BETTER than the PS2... There IS a difference!

 

YET ANOTHER EXAMPLE.

 

Team A wins the world series over team b. Team A is the BETTER team, Sure, there are many fans for team B, and they LIKE/PREFER their team over the BETTER team, A...........

 

I'm perfectly fine with anyone liking any systems they wish. On the other hand, I'm not fine with a bunch of fanboys agreeing with each other about something that is false i.e. read the topic title. you DC fans took the topic title to heart way too much.

[DracIsBack]

I'm not saying at all people are full of shit for LIKING the DC over the PS2. I'm say people are full of shit for saying the DC is BETTER than the PS2... There IS a difference!

 

Sure. it's just as full of shit as saying "The PS2 is BETTER than the Dreamcast". It's called a "subjective opinion". Some people are going to prefer one machine. Some are going to prefer another. And no matter how much you scream, "it's a fact", it's not. It's an opinion - yours, which is no more valid or invalid than what anyone else likes.

 

I'm not fine with a bunch of fanboys agreeing with each other about something that is false

 

It's no more false than it would have been had someone said, "the PS2 was better than the Dreamcast".

 

All opinions. Everyone's got them.

[Lord Helmet]

Man, this thread is like comedy gold.

[roland p]

The PS2 doesn't have Shenmue and the DC doesn't have Silent Hill, so they both don't win

[kevincal]

The PS2 has 2062 games/variations ~ dreamcast has 314 games/variations released in America according to RF generation.. LMFAO. Gee, I wonder which one has a SHITLOAD more good games than the other?

 

DURRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR...............

 

 

Of course, your excuses will be the dc died blah blah, dc was better than the ps2 for a year blah blah. ps2 has a lot of shit games blah blah...

 

to which ill respond, the dc died because the majority of gamers and developers chose the ps2 over the dc. dc was better than ps2 at first because... DUH, it had a head start. Ps2 does have a lot of shit games, but you cant sit here and tell me with a straight face that DC has anywhere even in the ballpark of the same Number of good games as the PS2. A fair assessment would be the DC has 150 good games and the ps2 1000 good games. good games by the average opinion of gamers. Lets call it a tie in the graphics department, even though ps2 games started looking better than dc games by gran turismo 3 which was released in 2001... Sound goes to the PS2. Controller goes to the PS2, backwards compatibility PS2, watch DVD movies PS2, logitech force feedback steering wheel ps2 and on and on and on ..

Edited April 28, 2009 by kevincal

[DracIsBack]

The PS2 has 2062 games/variations ~ dreamcast has 314 games/variations released in America according to RF generation.. LMFAO. Gee, I wonder which one has a SHITLOAD more good games than the other?

 

DURRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR...............

 

 

I see the debate has crossed the line from personal preferences over which console one prefers to something uglier.

[Chickybaby]

I would agree and I would appreciate if people would stop posting stupidly since more often then not it reflects negatively on them, makes them look like an breying donkey, as well as mooting whatever point they are trying to make. If they can't post somewhat intelligently maybe they should stop posting in that particular thread altogether since it is causing them so much perceived mental distress.

 

The PS2 has 2062 games/variations ~ dreamcast has 314 games/variations released in America according to RF generation.. LMFAO. Gee, I wonder which one has a SHITLOAD more good games than the other?

 

DURRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR...............

 

 

I see the debate has crossed the line from personal preferences over which console one prefers to something uglier.

[gamerz]

Wow, folks, who cares anymore...

[Artlover]

I see the debate still ignores that one is still actively supported to this very day and one was terminated 7 years ago.

 

What is it that they call people that keep blindly making the same point over and over and over and over and over, expecting a different result each time......

[AtticGamer]

The PS2 doesn't have Shenmue and the DC doesn't have Silent Hill, so they both don't win

 

XBOX FTW.

 

I see the debate still ignores that one is still actively supported to this very day and one was terminated 7 years ago.

 

What is it that they call people that keep blindly making the same point over and over and over and over and over, expecting a different result each time......

 

Dreamers.

[Herbarius]

Saying the PS2 killed the DC is like saying ET killed the video game industry.

 

It wasn't the PS2 that killed the DC, but the PS2 HYPE!

The PS2 wasn't even out, just its announcement was enough to let the DC sales "almost stop"... Be aware that technical experts in magazines et cetera did praise the Dreamcast like nothing else... the PS2 didn't need that, it was just the name "PlayStation" that somehow did the job.

 

Honestly I never understood the sales figures of both the PSX and the PS2. How could they have been that high? Okay, the PS2 was a cheap DVD player when it came out, that surely helped a lot. I've always been a PC gamer, never had a console, but even before I got into emulation I could've listed like 10 memorable SNES games. Where are the memorable PlayStation (2) games? From my perspective the PSX library is some kind of blurry mess (no pun intended) of mediocrity. Same thing with the PS2. Okay, there's the Grand Theft Auto series, but they were on the PC as well and had better graphics on the PC.

 

Some people on this thread wrote something to the extend that it's all about the dumb masses. Maybe that's not entirely wrong. Maybe SONY did a good job at marketing.

 

 

One last thing, I read a couple of times that the PS2's backward compatibility would help selling it to customers who already have a PS1. I seriously don't understand how that would do? Suddenly all PS1s broke down when the PS2 came out? In my opinion it could only be a plus for people who DON'T already own a PS1, because they'd know they could get a couple of games for their new system dirt cheap (PS1 games).

Edited April 29, 2009 by Herbarius

[kevincal]

Do you know how long it would take to sift through all of the PS1 and PS2 games to list all of the good and great games? The number of them is staggering. The reason you hardly ever hear people rattle off a list of memorable PS1 & 2 games is for the simple fact that there are TOO MANY TO NAME! A system like the DC, and systems like it with not so many games, have games that may seem more memorable, because the number of killer games on a system with not so many games... is limited!

 

And you know, Sony doesn't get the credit it deserves for the PS1. The PS1 totally kicked ass when it came out in 1995. Ya, so Sony is an evil corporation, whatever. It was Sony who released & attracted massive amounts of RPGs on the PS1 & 2 (the "hardcore" gamers type of game). You can't discredit the fact that the Playstation did so much better than the Saturn and the N64 in the US. You Sega drones sit there and try to act like Playstation fans are a bunch of dumbo's that are part of the "masses". Just because you are a Sega FANBOY, doesn't give you the right to assume this is the truth. There are PLENTY of PS fans who are as hardcore about gaming as any sega fan, or snk fan or Atari fan.

 

Maybe I actually will list all the kickass ps and ps2 games just to shut you all up. The PS2 was hyped for good reason. And after the dust cleared, it delivered in spades. Whereas Sega SOLD OUT and left its loyal fans in the dust.. Now they've been creating shit games for years... Seriously, it's pathetic what happened to Sega. They just totally dropped the ball. I mean compare Nintendo and Sega. They were dead even up until 1995. since 1995, look what happened. Sega just... did almost everything wrong. And don't bring up the PS3, im not even a fan of it. I dont care about any of the newer 3 systems.. I dont have any of them. I care about gaming from about 1990-2005 (especially 1990-1997). That's my niche.

Edited April 29, 2009 by kevincal

[Herbarius]

Just because you are a Sega FANBOY

 

I'm not a Sega fanboy. As I said I never had any console, of course I played some SNES with friends who had one... My first console was an Atari 2600 which I got like 8-10 years ago and didn't start to use until a few weeks ago. If anything, then I'm a PC fanboy...

 

But even that's not true... in fact I don't like "fanboys" of any kind, because of the kind of arguments they're starting on the Internet... Instead of "civilized" discussion they'll start fighting about everything, don't sepeate between objective facts and subjective opinion, making it hard to discuss the subject for everyone else.

[Video]

blah blah blah bitch bitch bitch. Wow, that looks really impressive I'm sure to someone.

 

As for memorable games, I never owned to many games for either system, but for the PSX/2, there were the Twisted Metal games, Spyro, Need for speed, Smugglers Run, Skull Monkeys, Gran torismo,....sigh...final fantasy. There are assloads of memorable games, granted some of those are available on computer, but we're talking playstation.

 

Seriously, a "only your top ten" doesn't happen to often on Playstation, the same reason it doesn't tend to happen on the 2600, there's a crapload of "favorites"

[roland p]

The PS2 doesn't have Shenmue and the DC doesn't have Silent Hill, so they both don't win

 

XBOX FTW.

 

Yep, I have the xbox version too. Unfortunatly, Shenmue 1 is never ported to the xbox

Edited April 29, 2009 by roland p

[roland p]

And you know, Sony doesn't get the credit it deserves for the PS1. The PS1 totally kicked ass when it came out in 1995.

 

Hardware wise, the ps1 dissapointed me with its wonky textures and weird geometry.

[kroogur]

Maybe I actually will list all the kickass ps and ps2 games just to shut you all up.

 

 

Sorry won't happen they didn't have that many good games that interested me, add to that Sony's amazingly awful customer service and you have systems and a company that no longer interests me at all.

 

 

 

Besides.... whatever Playstation 2 does XBox does better

Edited April 29, 2009 by kroogur

[kroogur]

And you know, Sony doesn't get the credit it deserves for the PS1. The PS1 totally kicked ass when it came out in 1995.

 

Hardware wise, the ps1 dissapointed me with its wonky textures and weird geometry.

 

Amen to that!

[dreamcastrip]

A system like the DC, and systems like it with not so many games, have games that may seem more memorable, because the number of killer games on a system with not so many games... is limited!

To repeat an earlier query from another poster, are you actually properly reading the posts here by others as you have a great capacity to ignore the many good points made?

 

With that in mind, your statement taken at face value is quite correct. However, you conveniently ignore the nature of those memorable DC games. As previously stated the best of what DC offered usually comprised of fun and innovative titles (see earlier post for examples) which for me set it apart from the majority of big hitters on PS2. Sure, if I'd wanted to have continued playing franchises often originating on earlier consoles such as Tekken, Metal Gear Solid, FIFA, Final Fantasy, Gran Turismo, Ridge Racer etc... then I'd have bought and have enjoyed PS2 back then. Whilst many of those franchise updates were great games in the opinion of many they held little or no interest for me personally.

 

As a current PS3 owner who'd previously chosen to pass on PS2 I've since bought 11 PS2 games with my personal favourites being Rez, R-Type Final, We Love Katamari, Space Channel 5 part 2, Intellivision Lives! and Contra: Shattered Soldier. So in the grand scheme of things I've come to respect and enjoy some of PS2's games if not necessarily the console itself. Owning the wealth of DC's fun and innovative titles plus a selection of PS2 games that actually interest me means I'm a happy gamer - especially as I own GameCube and Xbox too.

 

It would be nice to see you acknowledge that I and others here have the right to enjoy another console more and consequently consider it "better" than PS2 without constantly being referred to as fanboys just because we have the temerity to hold a different view to you...

Edited April 29, 2009 by dreamcastrip

[MCHufnagel]

The PS2 doesn't have Shenmue and the DC doesn't have Silent Hill, so they both don't win

 

XBOX FTW.

 

Yep, I have the xbox version too. Unfortunatly, Shenmue 1 is never ported to the xbox

 

Yea, but the Xbox version did come with that funky cutscene DVD movie!

 

Maybe I actually will list all the kickass ps and ps2 games just to shut you all up.

 

 

Sorry won't happen they didn't have that many good games that interested me

 

That doesn't mean that the PS/PS2 weren't kick ass systems. It just means your tastes are different.

[kroogur]

The PS2 doesn't have Shenmue and the DC doesn't have Silent Hill, so they both don't win

 

XBOX FTW.

 

Yep, I have the xbox version too. Unfortunatly, Shenmue 1 is never ported to the xbox

 

Yea, but the Xbox version did come with that funky cutscene DVD movie!

 

Maybe I actually will list all the kickass ps and ps2 games just to shut you all up.

 

 

Sorry won't happen they didn't have that many good games that interested me

 

That doesn't mean that the PS/PS2 weren't kick ass systems. It just means your tastes are different.

 

 

You are correct. But my angle in this thread is folks like what they like and it's mostly a matter of opinion because the DC never saw it's full potential or it's successor so all we can really do is have opinions on this particular subject. Me personally I loved the Everquest series both on PC and the PS2 but thanks to one horrendously bad experience with Sony "customer" support I will not buy or support anything they do ever again because to me a product is only as good as the folks who back them up and they (Sony) failed miserably when it came time to help me as a customer.