atariksi Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 The picture I posted and examples I gave I can put on A5200 cartridge within a day. That's great. We will have all them in less than a week! Which one are you going to start with? I don't have the complete library of A5200 stuff but I know its internals as I have written stuff for it. My point was I can prove that this stuff is doable on A5200 by compiling for it. I believe Jetset and Crazyace probably know more about existing games. I have Rescue on Fractulus which uses GTIA mode and if I had source code I could compile any other A8 version that uses 32K-48K into A5200 version. Now wait a bit... You specifically said that you could put the games you posted on an A5200 cartridge within a day. Are you telling me now that you lied? How about the 23 colors/scanline games? Was that a lie too? BTW, did you post anything that I can take seriously? Don't misquote. I said I can put that which I have source code to on A5200 within a day and some of the stuff posted is already available on A5200. You can run the software I posted on A8 and see for yourself if it's a lie. If you can't see FACTS, that's your problem. You haven't given any evidence that you can convert the MSX pictures you posted to Colecovision and nobody's asking you to port them over although that's MORE QUESTIONABLE. A5200 has same chipset whereas MSX has some upgraded hardware. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atariksi Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 Indeed it is. The 5200 is the least popular Atari console of all-time, which is why the 5200 forum gets the least amount of activity/attention out of any Atari system forum on AtariAge (except the Lynx), and why the values of 5200 stuff have sunk over the past few years. Any proof? I haven't seen 5200 prices change that much over the years. Honestly, I don't understand all this 5200 vs. CV fanboyism. Can someone please tell me why people need to argue over which 26+ year old system is better? I didn't start this. I saw people posting stuff like "A5200 sucks" and knew they were full of bullcrap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ApolloBoy Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 Indeed it is. The 5200 is the least popular Atari console of all-time, which is why the 5200 forum gets the least amount of activity/attention out of any Atari system forum on AtariAge (except the Lynx), and why the values of 5200 stuff have sunk over the past few years. Any proof? I haven't seen 5200 prices change that much over the years. Honestly, I don't understand all this 5200 vs. CV fanboyism. Can someone please tell me why people need to argue over which 26+ year old system is better? Brand loyalty of course. you know.. Atari vs Commodore Dodge Vs Chevy Domestics vs imports Dallas Vs Washington Take your pick, it's human nature I don't really buy into that line of thinking, actually. I've never understood brand loyalty, nor do I think I ever will. I just don't see the point of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frogstar_robot Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 There are some, but many people just get A800 computer rather than waiting for porting over to A5200. Nowadays, you can get an 800XL for $10. Excellent point. With the lamentable exception of Adventure 2, pretty much the entire 5200 library has been ported to the A8. A small handful of titles suffer from the loss of analog control (I never did get to play proportionally steered Star Raiders .) but most others are improved by digital sticks. I have a 130XE so the 5200 isn't terribly interesting to me since I can play those games anyway. I like the idea of some sort of centering analog stick for the A8 and more faithful translations of those few titles but I think we'll live OK without that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DracIsBack Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 Indeed it is. The 5200 is the least popular Atari console of all-time Please feel free to provide the 5200's sales figures (and their source) and then put them beside the documented 125,000 Jaguars sold by the end of 1995 (with 100,000 inventory) at the time Atari announced the system was "out of production" which is why the 5200 forum gets the least amount of activity/attention out of any Atari system forum on AtariAge (except the Lynx) If you're going by that standard, then I guess your point doesn't hold, due to the Lynx - which you pointed out. , and why the values of 5200 stuff have sunk over the past few years. Feel free to show some data. Perhaps you have a running average of Ebay auction prices over the last 10 years to show a downward trend? It's cool that you prefer the Coleco and all, but did you go to the CV Gus school of statistics? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamerz Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 Indeed it is. The 5200 is the least popular Atari console of all-time, which is why the 5200 forum gets the least amount of activity/attention out of any Atari system forum on AtariAge (except the Lynx), and why the values of 5200 stuff have sunk over the past few years. Any proof? I haven't seen 5200 prices change that much over the years. Honestly, I don't understand all this 5200 vs. CV fanboyism. Can someone please tell me why people need to argue over which 26+ year old system is better? Because they havent grown up yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atarian63 Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 Indeed it is. The 5200 is the least popular Atari console of all-time, which is why the 5200 forum gets the least amount of activity/attention out of any Atari system forum on AtariAge (except the Lynx), and why the values of 5200 stuff have sunk over the past few years. Any proof? I haven't seen 5200 prices change that much over the years. Honestly, I don't understand all this 5200 vs. CV fanboyism. Can someone please tell me why people need to argue over which 26+ year old system is better? Brand loyalty of course. you know.. Atari vs Commodore Dodge Vs Chevy Domestics vs imports Dallas Vs Washington Take your pick, it's human nature I don't really buy into that line of thinking, actually. I've never understood brand loyalty, nor do I think I ever will. I just don't see the point of it. I do and it seems most of the population do. Again human nature. We make a choice. Our choice has to be right. I personally do with computers,certain other electronics,cars brands. Teenagers do it with clothing brands.Some people do the same with sports (don't get that but ok). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ApolloBoy Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 Indeed it is. The 5200 is the least popular Atari console of all-time, which is why the 5200 forum gets the least amount of activity/attention out of any Atari system forum on AtariAge (except the Lynx), and why the values of 5200 stuff have sunk over the past few years. Any proof? I haven't seen 5200 prices change that much over the years. Honestly, I don't understand all this 5200 vs. CV fanboyism. Can someone please tell me why people need to argue over which 26+ year old system is better? Because they havent grown up yet? Hehe, good point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atariksi Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 Indeed it is. The 5200 is the least popular Atari console of all-time, which is why the 5200 forum gets the least amount of activity/attention out of any Atari system forum on AtariAge (except the Lynx), and why the values of 5200 stuff have sunk over the past few years. Any proof? I haven't seen 5200 prices change that much over the years. Honestly, I don't understand all this 5200 vs. CV fanboyism. Can someone please tell me why people need to argue over which 26+ year old system is better? Because they havent grown up yet? Hehe, good point. I don't think it's anything to do with "growing up". There's also a search for truth criterion or establishing the truth for those that think they know what's the truth. Plus, 26+ year old system doesn't mean they are useless. As I pointed out in post #403: "I agree that you can have better games on inferior systems. That's one reason why I still play games on Ataris (and you on Colecovision) although PCs are superior machines." I haven't seen anything close to some of the Atari's challenging games on PC like River-raid (A5200), Donkey Kong (A800), Joust (A5200), Frogger (A2600), Pole Position II (A7800), Bounty Bob Strikes Back (A5200), etc. PCs generally have more complex interfaces and 3D graphics but not as simple and easy to control like on older systems. Of course, the old computers are more useful and easier for learning/experimenting with simple programs and boot-up in 1 second. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ApolloBoy Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 Plus, 26+ year old system doesn't mean they are useless. Um, nowhere did I say anything about them being useless. If that was the case, I wouldn't be on AtariAge nor would I be into classic gaming. I just said that arguing over them like it was 1983 is pointless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamerz Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 My point is the arguing isnt "grownup", so what if the 5200 "may" be a better system, or the colecovision "may" have a better library...or even if they both sold 10 million systems or 1. Each person is gonna have their own opinions on which they like better, and if they think the other sucks, that is only their opinion...not a fact. The fighting over opinions is the childish thing here...not which is in fact a better system. As I stated in an ealier post, I like them both, pro and cons each way...it is my opinion though, not a fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamerz Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 (edited) By the way, why are we arguing here, I have never heard of a CelecoVision? Edited June 19, 2009 by gamerz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Psionic Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 (edited) Indeed it is. The 5200 is the least popular Atari console of all-time Please feel free to provide the 5200's sales figures (and their source) and then put them beside the documented 125,000 Jaguars sold by the end of 1995 (with 100,000 inventory) at the time Atari announced the system was "out of production" I don't care how many 5200's Atari sold. Pre-crash Warner Atari mass-produced everything in the zilllions and those things were going to get sold one way or another. Once the market crashed, games and consoles contined to be 'sold', yet at heavily discounted prices. So in the end, the sales figures of the 5200 don't mean much in relation to a system like the Jaguar which was marketed when Atari was on its last legs, long after they had ceased to be any kind of leader in the video game industry. Regardless, I'm referring to the 5200's legacy and popularity now...not its sales 25 years ago. The Jag's sales were a joke, but it has a huge following today. which is why the 5200 forum gets the least amount of activity/attention out of any Atari system forum on AtariAge (except the Lynx) If you're going by that standard, then I guess your point doesn't hold, due to the Lynx - which you pointed out. I'm referring to the home consoles. The Lynx doesn't count...I only mentioned it because I knew some smartass (like yourself) would mention it if I didn't. , and why the values of 5200 stuff have sunk over the past few years. Feel free to show some data. Perhaps you have a running average of Ebay auction prices over the last 10 years to show a downward trend? If you want hard data, ask someone like Trade-N-Games and see what he says. Ask someone like Zwackery who watches auction prices closely. Both of those guys have complete 5200 collections...I highly doubt they'd disagree with me. It's been mentioned several times right on these boards over the past few months how 5200 stuff has really dropped off in recent years. It's difficult to judge how much the market has gone down since there are other factors in play (recent economic situation) and the fact that 5200 stuff never went for crazy money to begin with (since most of the stuff was produced in very high volumes). In my experience, the 5200 does not seem to be as popular or collectable as the ColecoVision and it's popularity seems to have waned even more in recent years, while the ColecoVision has only grown in stature. (I believe much of this has to do with the fairly active CV homebrew scene.) It's cool that you prefer the Coleco and all, but did you go to the CV Gus school of statistics? You can scrutinize and attempt to pick apart my comments all you want...I'll stand by my claim that the 5200 is the least highly regarded Atari console (by collectors or players). It gets very little attention these days from collectors and it's almost totally devoid of a homebrew scene (conversions from the 8-bit computers excepted). If the 5200 is a fraction of the 8-bit powerhouse that atariksi claims it is, it should be getting a lot more attention. Edited June 19, 2009 by PingvinBlueJeans Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetboot Jack Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 (edited) Gradius doesn't have a sound chip... Wrong game... Indeed - my bad, it is Gradius 2 I was thinking of - that was the first one I had that was SCC equipped... In my view it is, as I can port games from MSX to CV and vice-versa.... I don't challenge your view, as someone who is working on the system, but factually the MSX and CV machines have significant hardware differences - although many similar components. Far more differences than the 5200/A8 hardware displays - in my view still nobody is calling you childish here... I was not calling you childish, I was displaying aversion to your use of such pejorative terms as pathetic, by reflecting that back to you, I see NO need for the type and style of language you use, it is aggressive without reason... The CV can show all 16 colors/scanline in 256 mode, it can produce 64 pixels worth of sprites/scanline, still nobody wants to admit that. No one ever said it couldn't do that AFAIK - again a reason why I have CV, Ti99 and MSX systems - I kinda like that. However my point was between all the "23 colors a line" wiffle, no one was actually giving a clear value for the 5200's color definition at 160 resolution - 11 colors per scan-line, and every scan-line at least different by 6 colors with a simple DLI (just change the 704-707 registers to achieve that). Yeah, I love to talk to superior beings... I was not suggesting I was superior, just experienced - and therefore was basing my opinions on my experiences, not random theoretical values as some atari fans here do... You see, you come here and post your personal opinions as fact, show games that aren't 5200, highlight the strong points of the 5200 while at the same time call all the machine's weaknesses irrelevant. I think if you re-read my posts I never said anything about the machine's weaknesses being irrelevant - I was just illustrating that the chipset of the 5200 was VERY capable when well programmed, and in my opinion is capable of some great games (as shown by the 800 titles shown). And I like those games, the way they look... However if I do the same I am labeled childish, ignorant, dumb and more. By whom? I think your use of language, aggressive wording and baiting of trolls like atariksi is poor behaviour on this message board - and I said so, I still feel that way... You aren't better than me... Never said I was, you clearly think there is an issue that does not exist... Now show me the damn 5200 games, mr mature… A fine example of your style - in one sentence aggression and derision - despite your contributions to the CV community, you seem to have a real chip on your shoulder. I can't understand what I have done (except to react to your attacking stance) to elicit your anger... sTeVE Edited June 19, 2009 by Jetboot Jack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youki Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 I don't challenge your view, as someone who is working on the system, but factually the MSX and CV machines have significant hardware differences - although many similar components. I won't say significant. MSX and CV are extremely close. And i think as close A8 is from 5200. the MSX have a different sound chip. And the standard MSX , say the minimum RAM is 8K , where the colecovision as 1K. Other difference are not hardware but Software mainly. the BIOS are different. So of course when you port a game from MSX to CV you have to rewrite BIOS Call. Otherwise concerning graphics programmation it exactly the same thing. I use MSX Books to program for my Colecovision. And speaking about programing. I have experience in programming on C64, A800 and now CV (i started CV recently) . I'm not an expert on all these machine and i didn't try to push the machine to their limits at all. And honnestly from the 3 , the CV is the most easy to program. The only , i'd said "very painfull" limitation is the 4 sprites by row. And the Z80 asm that i don't really like because i learned asm with 6502 years ago.. Otherwise , in 2nd position would the C64 that is quite easy and very powerfull and no real limitation. and 3rd the A800 , where you have the feeling there is lot of potential , but get frustated to not find easly how to exploit it. I have the feeling that if i want do the same game on the 3 plateforms . i will spend , said: 3 month on the coleco. 4 month on the C64. and 8 month on the A800. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oky2000 Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 I don't like analogue controllers, remind me too much of very early BBC Micro or those Pong TV games so the 5200 on that front wouldn't have been sold to me at the time. Then again there are probably dried dog turds that could be better joysticks* than what coleco packed in so stalemate there haha Other than that it is really just an A8 in a console right? As for the Jaguar...if you stop expecting awesome 64bit 3D masterpieces it is quite a powerful system. The graphics on say Donkey Kong country could easily have been bettered on the Jaguar. Certainly it was more powerful than other consoles before the PSX/Saturn/N64. However Need for Speed on 3DO looked more stunning so go figure. I like the 7800, shame it wasn't released when it was actually designed and so was out of its depth when launched at the time of things like the PC-Engine or Sega Master System!! The C64GS was a terrible idea though, and so was the XEGS. Cartridges are too expensive to produce and essentially the same game cost 6x more and once a tape is loaded (5 mins on a C64 turbo usually) the advantage is completely gone. White elephant extreme. But it all comes down to the games, and not just quantity, it is all about quality. Sega and Nintendo and even Sony knew this, as did old Atari from the 2600 era. And some 2600 games were just technical miracles really too, pushing the machine way past it's sell by date. Packing in Donkey Kong with the Coleco was genius. Getting Street Fighter as a pack-in game for the SNES was genius too, not everyone was a retarded baby who wanted to play stupid gay plinky plonk simple Mario games all day. Mortal Kombat and Doom blood removal was a very bad day for Nintendo and they suffered two whole console generations for their arrogance and kid/toy like perception in the market with Sega and Sony absolutely wiping the floor with the N64 and Gamecube after that kind of damage was done. *(I owned a Coleco as a kid) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 Brand loyalty of course. you know..Atari vs Commodore Dodge Vs Chevy Domestics vs imports Dallas Vs Washington Take your pick, it's human nature Okay, how about Dodge vs. Commodore? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 Regardless, I'm referring to the 5200's legacy and popularity now...not its sales 25 years ago. The Jag's sales were a joke, but it has a huge following today. I believe the fact that all 5200 titles can be had on the XL/XE is responsible for its lack of popularity. If all you want is the games, then you don't even need one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazyace Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 and the 5200 only came out in the US - at the time I think the only time I saw some of the games was via 'glenn the 5200 man' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtariLeaf Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 Well, I'm getting out of the Colecovision collecting scene. I've got 3 units and a couple dozen games but I never play it. There is really no nostalgia value for me with the system because I never owned one growing up. Even though its got a lot of great games, the hardware is hit and miss 30 years later with faulty power supplies, poor joysticks, power switch issues, etc. Having said that, I'm not in the 5200 camp either. I'm an 800xl/xegs man myself. But I won't go into the obvious and overstated reasons why I dislike the 5200 hardware. Its well documented ad nauseum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Allan Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 Brand loyalty of course. you know..Atari vs Commodore Dodge Vs Chevy Domestics vs imports Dallas Vs Washington Take your pick, it's human nature Okay, how about Dodge vs. Commodore? Well soon Chrysler will be out of business so I think that would be a far comparison. Allan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frogstar_robot Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 I haven't seen anything close to some of the Atari's challenging games on PC like River-raid (A5200), Donkey Kong (A800), Joust (A5200), Frogger (A2600), Pole Position II (A7800), Bounty Bob Strikes Back (A5200), etc. PCs generally have more complex interfaces and 3D graphics but not as simple and easy to control like on older systems. Check out Kenta Cho's stuff. He makes fast abstract shooters with a colorful vector appearance. The controls are very simple and the games are mostly designed to be short unless you are VERY good. http://www.asahi-net.or.jp/~cs8k-cyu/index_e.html Though not on Kenta's page, one Evil Mr. Henry ported most of these games to 'Nix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VectorGamer Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 The 5200 was a limp-dick machine and didn't deliver And the saga of people expressing their "opinions" as though they are "facts" continues ... It's a given that bulletin boards (as they were called in the good ol' days ) are opinionated. Wouldn't it be redundant stating "IMHO" especially when the very topic is "which system is better"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VectorGamer Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 Whoa! Someone doesn't like the 5200!!! I would have to disagree that the games are not significant improvements over the 2600. They most definitely are. Compare Pac Man, Dig Dug, etc. Come on, they are worlds better than the 2600. Must we link to 2600 and then 5200 versions of the same game on Youtube to prove this? I hope not, but it should only take a few minutes. 5200 graphics and sound are staggering improvements over 2600; how they compare to Colecovision is another matter entirely. Just because you prefer the Colecovision to the 5200 doesn't mean you have to downgrade the 5200's games to "not significant improvement" over 2600 to make your point. It's okay for the 5200 games to be significant improvements over the 2600 and still prefer the Colecovision. If you want to take shots at the 5200 controllers, I'm with you however...ha ha Pac-Man on the 5200 is "the 5hit," but look at that piece of garbage they released for the 2600. In contrast, Space Invaders and Galaxian are better than the 5200 versions. I think this where gameplay made the difference versus "pretty" graphics. The same may be true of Q*bert and Frogger, but I'm not buying those because of the 5200 controllers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VectorGamer Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 The 5200 was a limp-dick machine and didn't deliver And the saga of people expressing their "opinions" as though they are "facts" continues ... Maybe he was referring to the non-centering joysticks... Ha ha. I knew this would be mentioned! It's not that big of a problem given the varous sticks available: Wico/Wicopad, Masterplay, Digital joystick adapter, or gold-pcbs for A5200 sticks, or a good trackball. Trackball is better than A800 version. The gold contacts make the controllers better, but does not fix the self-centering issue. The problem is that you have to fork out extra dough to get a working joystick for the system. The Atari 2600 had the best stock joysticks of any of the Atari "00" consoles and ColecoVision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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