Atari 5200 vs. CelecoVision

[Ransom]

Shouldn't a discussion of "to go 5200" or "not to" include discussion of the A8 computer as a practical, affordable alternative?

 

I thought that for years and years. I've had an Atari 8-bit computer since 1983, and I had a 5200 for a short time before that, as well as for a short time in the 90s. And up until this year, I believed firmly that the 5200 was a waste of money if you had an 8-bit computer and a good collection of games.

 

Boy, was I wrong!

 

The 5200 controllers add measurably to the enjoyment of games like Star Raiders, Pole Position, and Space Invaders. And the 5200 trak-ball can't be beat when playing Centipede and Missile Command.

 

Also, if you're sticking to cartridges, you can't get Gremlins, Vanguard, or Kangaroo on the Atari 8-bit, for example (although good ol' Glenn ported Kangaroo, Vanguard, and a slew of others).

 

I've been very, very happy that I asked around on here about reasons for having a 5200 given my extensive collection of 8-bit carts. The answers I was given piqued my curiosity and led me to buy a 5200, a couple of Best's Gold controllers, a trak-ball, and a bunch of games. Yes, it was a lot of money -- the most I've spent on any system in a long, long time. But it's the console I turn to first these days, because it's such a pleasure to play.

[Mirage]

Shouldn't a discussion of "to go 5200" or "not to" include discussion of the A8 computer as a practical, affordable alternative?

 

It has been discussed, many times. The 5200 analog controllers are often actually an advantage for many of the games. It takes a little experience with the 5200 to realize that. The 5200 controllers aren't always shoddy controllers. For some games, they're necessary, for others, they're not, but are kinda cool, for a few they're pointless at best or horrible at worst. Either way, the 5200 controllers have 2 buttons, which is a pretty big deal sometimes. It makes the game Qix for example, which is completely different on the 5200 than on the A8. There's other reasons I won't even go into, but the 5200 and A8 are different experiences, and I'll leave it at that.

 

 

Funny, I have these controllers for years and I still can't stand them.

 

Well, not everyone will like everything. There are some who will never like the 5200's controllers. There's some who will never even like the 2600's stock controller. Thank God we're not all the same person. You seem to have a negative opinion on every single possible topic, so this doesn't surprise me a bit anyway.

[VectorGamer]

Funny, I have these controllers for years and I still can't stand them.

 

I'm curious about the content of conversations around the water cooler at Atari when the topic of the new controllers for the 5200 was brought up. It would be easy to believe that the folks on the front line would have opposed but that it was a management decision to go forward with the release given the costs of redesign and a need to get the system on the market ASAP. I'm not privy to this info, so I could be way off, but to me this scenario is believable.

 

Do any former Atari employees frequent this site to give us insights on this stuff?

 

At least with the Colecovision they stuck with a DB9 connector to allow using 2600 compatible joysticks (to the convenience of player 2).

 

But, I can see this topic (of the 5200 controllers) will never die. Some say the 5200 joysticks are horrible while others say that they aren't bad. Rarely do I hear, if at all, someone say that these joysticks are outstanding.

[Mirage]

It would be easy to believe that the folks on the front line would have opposed but that it was a management decision to go forward with the release given the costs of redesign and a need to get the system on the market ASAP.

...

Rarely do I hear, if at all, someone say that these joysticks are outstanding.

 

I don't have any inside info either, but they designed the sticks to operate this way for a reason... analog control for certain games. So, I don't see why the "front lines" (I assume you mean the designers?) would not like the design. I have a hard time understanding why so many people cannot understand the reasons for the design of the 5200 controllers. The non-self-centering thing I can kind of understand, but you get used to it, and it would be detrimental or unnecessary for quite a few of the games. I think the issue was more one of engineering -- the flex circuits just don't hold up well over time. They could have built them better, but I think the design itself is solid. That's where the main problem with the sticks comes in. Possibly that's what you mean, and I'd think it might be conceivable... the designers maybe thought they should be built better, but management decided to build them more cheaply? Would be great to get info on this.

 

But, I'll say it... when improved, and built they way they should have been (the gold upgraded sticks), I think they are outstanding. Some of the best controllers I've ever used, bar none. Not gold-upgraded, I can't say that.

 

But that said, it would have been nice had they either made them switchable (one way as they are, the other way as digital/self-centering), or included a separate digital/self-centering controller attached by a y-cable, and included this with the system when new. That probably wasn't feasible $$$ at the time though.

[VectorGamer]

It would be easy to believe that the folks on the front line would have opposed but that it was a management decision to go forward with the release given the costs of redesign and a need to get the system on the market ASAP.

...

Rarely do I hear, if at all, someone say that these joysticks are outstanding.

 

the flex circuits just don't hold up well over time. They could have built them better, but I think the design itself is solid. That's where the main problem with the sticks comes in. Possibly that's what you mean, and I'd think it might be conceivable... the designers maybe thought they should be built better, but management decided to build them more cheaply? Would be great to get info on this.

 

But, I'll say it... when improved, and built they way they should have been (the gold upgraded sticks), I think they are outstanding. Some of the best controllers I've ever used, bar none. Not gold-upgraded, I can't say that.

 

But that said, it would have been nice had they either made them switchable (one way as they are, the other way as digital/self-centering), or included a separate digital/self-centering controller attached by a y-cable, and included this with the system when new. That probably wasn't feasible $$$ at the time though.

 

I agree with you on the "switching" or separate controller.

 

I do not yet have the gold joysticks, so if and when I do get them, I could very well have the same opinion that when augmented with these controllers that the 5200 is the better system. But, my opinion is based solely on how they shipped the system with the stock controllers. With the exception of the 7800, I play all my consoles with the stock controllers. The Colecovision stock controllers are much better, although I have found that if the joystick is tight, it can present a challenge in maze games like Mouse Trap.

 

I do believe that the 5200 is a must have for classic gaming enthusiasts so I do like it as a whole. I like having access to as many arcade ports that I can get my hands on. I'm not a Pac-Man kind of guy, but the 5200 version is enjoyable.

[Mirage]

Yeah, it's almost not fair to judge it on an aftermarket upgrade. Totally bone stock, non-upgraded, after the effects of time, the 5200 controllers are unusable. I guess I just feel an exception has to be made with the 5200 since we do have access to upgraded controllers now, and it's how they should have been to begin with. Not sure if it was the beancounters or enginerring, but someone sure did drop the ball at Atari on the 5200 controllers!

[VectorGamer]

I do believe that the 5200 is a must have for classic gaming enthusiasts so I do like it as a whole. I like having access to as many arcade ports that I can get my hands on. I'm not a Pac-Man kind of guy, but the 5200 version is enjoyable.

 

It should have said that Pac-Man on the 5200 is outstanding, because it is rightfully so.

 

I would be interested in playing Opcode's Pac-Man collection for the Colecovision. The problem I have with Opcode is that their carts are hardly available. I question if they would be better off selling through AtariAge after their initial production run than not at all.

[+wood_jl]

Shouldn't a discussion of "to go 5200" or "not to" include discussion of the A8 computer as a practical, affordable alternative?

 

It has been discussed, many times. The 5200 analog controllers are often actually an advantage for many of the games. It takes a little experience with the 5200 to realize that. The 5200 controllers aren't always shoddy controllers. For some games, they're necessary, for others, they're not, but are kinda cool, for a few they're pointless at best or horrible at worst. Either way, the 5200 controllers have 2 buttons, which is a pretty big deal sometimes. It makes the game Qix for example, which is completely different on the 5200 than on the A8. There's other reasons I won't even go into, but the 5200 and A8 are different experiences, and I'll leave it at that.

 

 

I have no doubt as to the 5200’s merit over the A8 in those few situations where the controller is actually of some benefit. Star Raiders and Pole Position are 2 of my favorite A8 games. The digital control scheme on A8 Pole Position – while certainly less than idea – is actually playable and enjoyable. Compare using digital control on other implementations of Pole Position – namely, “Namco Museum” on Playstation and with a digital controller; you can’t really play at all, as you can on the A8. An analog “wheel” type (I use the one that has a little wheel like an R/C car controller) makes it playable. I haven't tried it on 5200. Star Raiders, I have seen, is more enjoyable with the 5200 controller as you can whip around faster to face the enemy. The A8 version is still excellent. So the actual benefit to the controllers extremely [numerically] limited in application – sounds like only 3 or 4 games you could benefit from. Fire button placement isn’t really debatable, though.

 

Many 5200 variations (Space Invaders, Qix Centipede, etc) can be played on A8 [and the world of “disc games”] but an SIO2PC would be necessary. This likely goes beyond many gamer’s level of enthusiasm, however, which generally entails plugging in cartridges.

 

Don’t get me wrong. I am really enjoying Atari stuff again, and I am glad to find I still love this stuff, possibly more than I did when I was younger. I envision myself wanting to put together a 5200 system someday even just for the benefit of Star Raiders and Pole Position, because I simply love those games, and Atari stuff. The “Adventure 2” game of recent vintage is alluring.

 

However, it is certainly a chore and a labor of love to be a proper 5200 enthusiast. As I think about it, wouldn’t know whether to go 2 port or 4 port. Looks (from the threads here) the ideal setup is a 2-port with 4-port OS ROMs. While no technically-gifted erudite, I might be able to do that. However, it goes without being said that the dedication required goes beyond many gamers. But it would take 2 systems to do it. There is – beyond a doubt – the fact that any system you buy comes with 2 bad controllers. I never knew of ANYONE who had a 5200 that did not have 2 broken controllers. It would cost over $85 for 2 rebuilt (with gold parts) 5200 joysticks. You could save a few dollars rebuilding your old ones, but not much, and again – many users lack the desire to do so. I’d also want composite video output added.

 

We’re talking about Xbox 360 dollars all together to get a nice, workable 5200 system. So in the context of someone who is debating the purchase of either a Colecovision or 5200 system, an Atari 800XL and a couple of 2600 joysticks will take them most of the way there, for about the price of one 5200 joystick, and no discussion of such matters would be complete without mentioning this fact. I would hope they’d go 800XL instead of Colecovison if they couldn’t contend with all of that mentioned in the previous paragraph.

 

Rather than an absolute debate on 5200 vs. A8 merit, it’s a 800XL vs Colecovision kind of thing with the 800XL being a worthy, affordable 5200 substiture which it undeniably is. In my case, I’d like a 5200 as well, but I don’t even have an Xbox 360 yet and I can’t help but think I’d put the next “extra” $200 (or more) towards that.

[Mirage]

^^ I don't have time to properly reply to that right now, but you're missing some games that benefit from the analog controls. Hurting your case even more, you actually mention Centipede and Qix, which are both better on 5200 (Centipede due to analog/TB, and Qix due to 2 buttons and an overall better and completely different 5200 port).

 

I do agree that for those going cheap, the A8 does make a viable alternative, but it's not nearly a 100% alternative. It would serve well for many though. I have both, and the CV, but I'm not quite a casual collector or gamer.

 

I don't see the point of comparing it to the cost of a 360 etc, honestly. The $ cost argument is certainly valid, but you could say that comparing any two unlike items. I don't have a 360 nor do I particularly want one. In many cases, they're different markets.

 

Futhermore, have you actually played a 5200? Because you say all this about it, but you don't have one? If you've played it extensively or have in the past owned one, free pass. Otherwise, another person talking about its shortcomings who doesn't have firsthand experience? Just saying that I really think you need extensive firsthand experience to really have a valid opinion here (or on many other things for that matter).

 

And thanks to Ransom below for saying some of the things I'd say. There are other games that benefit from the analog/2-button as well, but those are some of the highlights. It's far more than the 3 or 4 games benefitting from the 5200's controllers.

Edited April 6, 2009 by Mirage1972

[Ransom]

The A8 version is still excellent. So the actual benefit to the controllers extremely [numerically] limited in application – sounds like only 3 or 4 games you could benefit from.

 

You make valid points, but I wanted to offer more information on this aspect, since my earlier post was incomplete. Here's a list of the games I currently own for the 5200 and why I own them, despite having a huge collection of A8 games:

 

Berzerk - Voice enhanced; proto only for 8-bit

Centipede - 5200 Trak-ball much improves the game play; even 5200 controllers are better than any option on the 8-bit

Countermeasure - Exclusive to 5200; needs two buttons so the 8-bit hacks don't do it justice.

Defender - Benefits greatly from having the two buttons plus the keypad

Galaxian - Benefits from analog control

Gremlins - Exclusive to 5200; great game! Controllers work great for this one.

Kangaroo - Exclusive to 5200. Doesn't benefit from the controllers, but they don't get in the way either.

Missile Command - Like centipede, benefits greatly from trak-ball as well as 5200 controllers

Moon Patrol - Two buttons is nicer than the 8-bit workaround

Pac-Man - You get toons Came free with my boxed console, othewise I wouldn't have bought it

Pole Position - Analog control is more controllable than the digital control

Qix - Two buttons makes it much nicer to play

Robotron: 2084 - The dual controller holder and the 5200 controllers is, hands down, the best two-stick system for the home that I've ever encountered

Space Dungeon - Same as Robotron, plus it's exclusive to the 5200

Space Invaders - Benefits slightly from the analog controls

Star Raiders - Benefits from the analog controls and also has bug fixes

Super Breakout - Fun to play with analog controls, but not really a big win for the system

Vanguard - Exclusive to the system, and as close to the arcade as you can get on an NTSC television

Adventure II - Worth owning the system for all by itself

Blueprint - Exclusive to the system; came free with my boxed console.

Wizard of Wor - Came free with my boxed console. Doesn't benefit at all from the system.

Super Cobra - Doesn't benefit at all from the system. Bought because I didn't have it for the 8-bit.

 

And those are just the games I own...

Edited April 6, 2009 by Ransom

[+Mitch]

From what I remember, the 5200 joystick was designed by a guy that had never played video games. All the other engineers hated it and petitioned management to get it cancelled but Atari had already spent too much money and couldn't afford to get it delayed so they released it anyway.

 

Mitch

[Atari2008]

I do believe that the 5200 is a must have for classic gaming enthusiasts so I do like it as a whole. I like having access to as many arcade ports that I can get my hands on. I'm not a Pac-Man kind of guy, but the 5200 version is enjoyable.

 

It should have said that Pac-Man on the 5200 is outstanding, because it is rightfully so.

 

I would be interested in playing Opcode's Pac-Man collection for the Colecovision. The problem I have with Opcode is that their carts are hardly available. I question if they would be better off selling through AtariAge after their initial production run than not at all.

 

I love Pac-Man on the 5200. It's not the most arcade-accurate nor was I around at the time to experience the 5200 version when it first dropped, but I think it's awesome. The bright colors, the sound is just amazing, and the unique look of the maze and the unique overall of the game, makes it an amazing experience. Also, it's one of those games where the controller doesn't get in the way of gameplay, although I also have a Wico Competition Pro which is much better in my opinion. But I personally can't stand the 5200 controllers.

[Atari2008]

However, it is certainly a chore and a labor of love to be a proper 5200 enthusiast. As I think about it, wouldn’t know whether to go 2 port or 4 port. Looks (from the threads here) the ideal setup is a 2-port with 4-port OS ROMs. While no technically-gifted erudite, I might be able to do that. However, it goes without being said that the dedication required goes beyond many gamers. But it would take 2 systems to do it. There is – beyond a doubt – the fact that any system you buy comes with 2 bad controllers. I never knew of ANYONE who had a 5200 that did not have 2 broken controllers. It would cost over $85 for 2 rebuilt (with gold parts) 5200 joysticks. You could save a few dollars rebuilding your old ones, but not much, and again – many users lack the desire to do so. I’d also want composite video output added.

 

We’re talking about Xbox 360 dollars all together to get a nice, workable 5200 system. So in the context of someone who is debating the purchase of either a Colecovision or 5200 system, an Atari 800XL and a couple of 2600 joysticks will take them most of the way there, for about the price of one 5200 joystick, and no discussion of such matters would be complete without mentioning this fact. I would hope they’d go 800XL instead of Colecovison if they couldn’t contend with all of that mentioned in the previous paragraph.

 

Rather than an absolute debate on 5200 vs. A8 merit, it’s a 800XL vs Colecovision kind of thing with the 800XL being a worthy, affordable 5200 substiture which it undeniably is. In my case, I’d like a 5200 as well, but I don’t even have an Xbox 360 yet and I can’t help but think I’d put the next “extra” $200 (or more) towards that.

 

I agree with this actually, which is why I have yet to invest more time and money on my 5200, and it spends considerable amount of time in the closet, compared to my 2600 and 7800. It's hard for me to justify, at least right now, spending the kind of money that I'd need to spend to properly rebuild the controllers, and add to the fact that I would need to invest in some sort of adapter, like a Masterplay, since I'm not a fan of the controllers, it all adds up to be a bit much for me. In retrospect I probably should've gotten an 8-bit, but at least I have one semi-working 5200 controller. My 2600 and 7800 definitely spend more time being used, since it's much easier to use practically any controller with them and they don't have any issues. Still the 5200 is a cool machine...just wish it were easier to get one up and running.

[jetset]

From what I remember, the 5200 joystick was designed by a guy that had never played video games. All the other engineers hated it and petitioned management to get it cancelled but Atari had already spent too much money and couldn't afford to get it delayed so they released it anyway.

 

Mitch

 

Where dd you hear this? And if the engineers hated it so then why didn't they change it? Really when you get right down to it, the problem with the 5200's controllers from a reliability standpoint are the fire buttons. And at that 20+ years after a bunch of nerds on a chat board figured out the fix with simple tin foil. Other than that the 5200 controllers are pretty damn durable. The self centering issue really boils down to how good a gamer you are. A little practice is all it takes with them. Sure it's frustrating at first, but the same could be said of the CV and 7800 sticks. Both of those are so stiff and uncomfortable you can only play half an hour at a time at most before having to take a break. Whats funny is you'll hear owners of both systems boast you can use 2600 sticks instead of the stock sticks whereas with the 5200 you can't. Though that's not entirely true, isn't it strange how both systems were supposed to be the next generation, yet their controller design was no better than the system released in 1977?

 

IDK...the whole 5200 controller gripe to me is lame. Atari at least tried to improve the controller and they did for the most part. I can see where someone not terribly good at videogames would give up and dis the system entirely because of the controllers.

[+wood_jl]

The A8 version is still excellent. So the actual benefit to the controllers extremely [numerically] limited in application – sounds like only 3 or 4 games you could benefit from.

 

You make valid points, but I wanted to offer more information on this aspect, since my earlier post was incomplete. Here's a list of the games I currently own for the 5200 and why I own them, despite having a huge collection of A8 games:

 

Berzerk - Voice enhanced; proto only for 8-bit

Centipede - 5200 Trak-ball much improves the game play; even 5200 controllers are better than any option on the 8-bit

Countermeasure - Exclusive to 5200; needs two buttons so the 8-bit hacks don't do it justice.

Defender - Benefits greatly from having the two buttons plus the keypad

Galaxian - Benefits from analog control

Gremlins - Exclusive to 5200; great game! Controllers work great for this one.

Kangaroo - Exclusive to 5200. Doesn't benefit from the controllers, but they don't get in the way either.

Missile Command - Like centipede, benefits greatly from trak-ball as well as 5200 controllers

Moon Patrol - Two buttons is nicer than the 8-bit workaround

Pac-Man - You get toons Came free with my boxed console, othewise I wouldn't have bought it

Pole Position - Analog control is more controllable than the digital control

Qix - Two buttons makes it much nicer to play

Robotron: 2084 - The dual controller holder and the 5200 controllers is, hands down, the best two-stick system for the home that I've ever encountered

Space Dungeon - Same as Robotron, plus it's exclusive to the 5200

Space Invaders - Benefits slightly from the analog controls

Star Raiders - Benefits from the analog controls and also has bug fixes

Super Breakout - Fun to play with analog controls, but not really a big win for the system

Vanguard - Exclusive to the system, and as close to the arcade as you can get on an NTSC television

Adventure II - Worth owning the system for all by itself

Blueprint - Exclusive to the system; came free with my boxed console.

Wizard of Wor - Came free with my boxed console. Doesn't benefit at all from the system.

Super Cobra - Doesn't benefit at all from the system. Bought because I didn't have it for the 8-bit.

 

And those are just the games I own...

 

 

Thanks for the list and the comments. It's not easy to run across such a list, I might add, which charts the differences bewtween A8 and 5200 versions.

[Gorf]

You seem to have a negative opinion on every single possible topic, so this doesn't surprise me a bit anyway.

 

More like everything I do is negative because I dare have a differing opinion of the 5200 controllers, no?

Come now.

 

If you like them then fine. I think they were a disaster.

Edited April 7, 2009 by Gorf

[Gorf]

At least with the Colecovision they stuck with a DB9 connector to allow using 2600 compatible joysticks (to the convenience of player 2).

 

THANK YOU! Would it have been asking too much for Atari to keep with tradition?

You know, that which worked well for them in the past?

 

How about a port that can use analogs AND digitals? Atari could then have

controller options in the games...they did'nt. That to me just plain sucked.

 

The 5200 was a mistake in two ways. The fact that it was a A8 and nothing more

advance(like a Maria chip along side the GTIA/ANTIC if possible...or another pair

of GTIA/ANTIC chips perhaps?)

 

How about self centering analogs? That would have gone a long way with me and I

am sure many others.

 

The truth is I still find the GTIA/ANTIC chipset a better chipset than the CV's VDP.

The CV also had the lure of games not found on Atari systems....until way after

the CV's release when Atari and Coleco started to 'share' titles for each others

systems.

 

I already had most of the games for my A8 and saw no point in recollecting what was

essentially the same exact titles for the most part for a new system. The CV at the

time was just more attractive to me. Those joysticks blow hard too but at least they

self center. Had the 5200 had a new graphics setup which was CLEARLY superior to

the A8 stuff, it would have been a no brainer. However I laughed in the store when I

realized I was looking at a A8 in console clothing, no keyboard, no disk drives and

joysticks that could have been better....much better.

[+wood_jl]

^^ I don't have time to properly reply to that right now, but you're missing some games that benefit from the analog controls. Hurting your case even more, you actually mention Centipede and Qix, which are both better on 5200 (Centipede due to analog/TB, and Qix due to 2 buttons and an overall better and completely different 5200 port).

 

Both of those games have been "ported" (hacked?) to the A8. Yes, the 5200 versions are better. Don't know about the 2nd button; the A8 (from 5200 version) just uses the button for "slow draw" which works pretty well.

 

I do agree that for those going cheap, the A8 does make a viable alternative, but it's not nearly a 100% alternative. It would serve well for many though. I have both, and the CV, but I'm not quite a casual collector or gamer.

 

No, not 100%, for sure. How close, of course, would be opinion! I think it's cool if you have both - and cool to have a Colecovision. I'm a bit of a collector myself (although running in a hardcore crowd here!), and sometimes fancy acquiring these systems. Of course matters of practicality and expense are going to crop up.

 

I don't see the point of comparing it to the cost of a 360 etc, honestly. The $ cost argument is certainly valid, but you could say that comparing any two unlike items. I don't have a 360 nor do I particularly want one. In many cases, they're different markets.

 

To someone contemplating a single system, the comparison would be ridiculous on any basis other than cost. To someone with 10-12 systems who's considering acquiring ANOTHER system for the collection, there's more to compare. No collector has time to play all their systems. It seems logical to begin with the ones that you'd play the most, and to attempt to prioritize potential next systems in a relevant order.

 

I don't have a 360. I do particularly want one. As I wait, cost, reliability, and library continue to improve. I don't see turning the nose up at one; the retro-games (and retro/rehashes) alone make it interesting to me. How anybody who enjoys classic systems couldn't appreciate Pac Man Championship Edition (just an example) is beyond me. There's a cool Galaga rehash, other stuff. I suppose it's inevitable as the kids now turn their nose up at my retro stuff, there are going to be retro gamers that turn their nose up at the new stuff.

 

Futhermore, have you actually played a 5200? Because you say all this about it, but you don't have one? If you've played it extensively or have in the past owned one, free pass. Otherwise, another person talking about its shortcomings who doesn't have firsthand experience? Just saying that I really think you need extensive firsthand experience to really have a valid opinion here (or on many other things for that matter).

 

Yeah, I've played one. It's been a long time. I admitted Star Raiders benefits from the controller. I've played 5200 Centipede, Qix, Dig Dug, Space Invaders (etc) on the A8. In each case, where a 5200 version is available, it is preferable. So that means unless I own one, I'm not at liberty to discuss the Achilles heal of the system, the controllers? I'm hoping to learn of workable, affordable solutions to any or all the issues of the system. That, and learning of obvious plusses of the system (relative to A8) could sell me on one. I'm not looking to shoot it down; certainly there are going to be questions, and I've never seen a comprehensive FAQ that addressed all the issues (2 vs 4-port, system ROMs, permanent controller remedy, composite/Svid output, landmark game titles, etc.)

 

And thanks to Ransom below for saying some of the things I'd say. There are other games that benefit from the analog/2-button as well, but those are some of the highlights. It's far more than the 3 or 4 games benefitting from the 5200's controllers.

 

Indeed!

[Ransom]

And thanks to Ransom below for saying some of the things I'd say. There are other games that benefit from the analog/2-button as well, but those are some of the highlights. It's far more than the 3 or 4 games benefitting from the 5200's controllers.

 

 

Thanks for the list and the comments. It's not easy to run across such a list, I might add, which charts the differences bewtween A8 and 5200 versions.

 

Hmm. I've run into the same problem of course, trying to track down which games would have a chance of being better on the 5200. So maybe I should start working on a comprehensive list.

 

At least it would give me an excuse to buy more 5200 games.

[Mirage]

You seem to have a negative opinion on every single possible topic, so this doesn't surprise me a bit anyway.

 

More like everything I do is negative because I dare have a differing opinion of the 5200 controllers, no?

Come now.

 

If you like them then fine. I think they were a disaster.

 

I made my point clear, though you didn't understand it. (Hint: what you're implying I said is not what I said at all). But, whatever.

[Mirage]

I don't have a 360. I do particularly want one. As I wait, cost, reliability, and library continue to improve. I don't see turning the nose up at one; the retro-games (and retro/rehashes) alone make it interesting to me. How anybody who enjoys classic systems couldn't appreciate Pac Man Championship Edition (just an example) is beyond me. There's a cool Galaga rehash, other stuff. I suppose it's inevitable as the kids now turn their nose up at my retro stuff, there are going to be retro gamers that turn their nose up at the new stuff.

 

I'm not at all turning my nose up at the new stuff. I agree that it's a matter of whichever you want... and if you have a limited amount of money to spend on gaming (most do), and you want a 360 more, get it. I was just saying that you could say this about anything. I want a new bike more than any new gaming stuff, so I buy a bike instead. I have my modern gaming needs fulfilled by new computers at this point. That may change in the future. Doesn't have anything to do with the merits or demerits of any gaming system. But whatever, I understand your point.

 

Yeah, I've played one. It's been a long time. I admitted Star Raiders benefits from the controller. I've played 5200 Centipede, Qix, Dig Dug, Space Invaders (etc) on the A8. In each case, where a 5200 version is available, it is preferable. So that means unless I own one, I'm not at liberty to discuss the Achilles heal of the system, the controllers? I'm hoping to learn of workable, affordable solutions to any or all the issues of the system. That, and learning of obvious plusses of the system (relative to A8) could sell me on one. I'm not looking to shoot it down; certainly there are going to be questions, and I've never seen a comprehensive FAQ that addressed all the issues (2 vs 4-port, system ROMs, permanent controller remedy, composite/Svid output, landmark game titles, etc.)

 

I was just trying to learn what your experience was with the system. Now I (sort of) know. It's good that you've played it, so at least you have some experience to discuss it. It's just that some people feel the need to have all sorts of opinions about all sorts of things that they have no experience with. "Oh, I've never played the 5200, but I think it's.......", "Wow, E.T. is the worst game ever, because I watched this YouTube video of some guy who said it was....", and most relevant to this, "I've played the 5200 in emulation, but not on a real system, and I think......" (it's not at all the same in emulation). If you remember the controllers clearly, then of course your opinion is valid. So many people have an "opinion" about them that haven't even ever held one. That's all I was trying to find out or avoid. I'm not really sure what your experience with it is, but I certainly encourage you to play it (or any other system) more if you have the opportunity (a friend has one, you see one at a gaming convention available for play or whatever). Your old memories may not be accurate, or you may see it in a different light. At any rate, you want to know more about various systems that you don't have, and it's great that you're curious and asking questions. It's all about enjoying all this stuff, new and old, and appreciating each for what it is/was. There's a huge amount of info here on AA already, but sometimes it can be difficult to find it buried in all these threads!

Edited April 7, 2009 by Mirage1972

[VectorGamer]

I don't see the point of comparing it to the cost of a 360 etc, honestly. The $ cost argument is certainly valid, but you could say that comparing any two unlike items. I don't have a 360 nor do I particularly want one. In many cases, they're different markets.

 

To someone contemplating a single system, the comparison would be ridiculous on any basis other than cost. To someone with 10-12 systems who's considering acquiring ANOTHER system for the collection, there's more to compare. No collector has time to play all their systems. It seems logical to begin with the ones that you'd play the most, and to attempt to prioritize potential next systems in a relevant order.

 

I don't have a 360. I do particularly want one. As I wait, cost, reliability, and library continue to improve. I don't see turning the nose up at one; the retro-games (and retro/rehashes) alone make it interesting to me. How anybody who enjoys classic systems couldn't appreciate Pac Man Championship Edition (just an example) is beyond me. There's a cool Galaga rehash, other stuff. I suppose it's inevitable as the kids now turn their nose up at my retro stuff, there are going to be retro gamers that turn their nose up at the new stuff.

 

Indeed!

 

I do not want a Wii or a 360 - they're too expensive and I have no interest in the game library as I am basically a slide-and-shoot kind of guy. The latest console I have is a Playstation which I hardly play anymore. My kid loves playing it and it's to my advantage to stay a few generations behind cuz the games are cheap.

 

I can see myself collecting a whole bunch of retro consoles from Pong to Vectrex. I don't desire to own an NES, which I owned previously, so I don't plan on collecting anything older (and including the NES) with the exception of the 7800.

 

I seriously need to invest in storage. My living room is getting trashed.

[Artlover]

I don't see the point of comparing it to the cost of a 360 etc, honestly. The $ cost argument is certainly valid, but you could say that comparing any two unlike items. I don't have a 360 nor do I particularly want one. In many cases, they're different markets.

To someone contemplating a single system, the comparison would be ridiculous on any basis other than cost.

I'm sorry, that makes no sense at all.

 

If one is contemplating a single system, the ONLY logical basis of comparison would be does it have the games you want to play. If it doesn't, it's a waste, no matter how cheap it was.

[+wood_jl]

I don't see the point of comparing it to the cost of a 360 etc, honestly. The $ cost argument is certainly valid, but you could say that comparing any two unlike items. I don't have a 360 nor do I particularly want one. In many cases, they're different markets.

To someone contemplating a single system, the comparison would be ridiculous on any basis other than cost.

I'm sorry, that makes no sense at all.

 

If one is contemplating a single system, the ONLY logical basis of comparison would be does it have the games you want to play. If it doesn't, it's a waste, no matter how cheap it was.

 

If the system had NO games you wanted to play, it wouldn't be in the running at all. That's kind of an assumption that I figured did not need to be said. I stand corrected. Evidently, it needed to be said, for your interpretation.

 

If the hypothetical potential gamer had funds to buy ONE (or one more) system, why would they even consider any that had no games they wanted to play? That's what makes no sense.

[+wood_jl]

I don't see the point of comparing it to the cost of a 360 etc, honestly. The $ cost argument is certainly valid, but you could say that comparing any two unlike items. I don't have a 360 nor do I particularly want one. In many cases, they're different markets.

To someone contemplating a single system, the comparison would be ridiculous on any basis other than cost.

I'm sorry, that makes no sense at all.

 

If one is contemplating a single system, the ONLY logical basis of comparison would be does it have the games you want to play. If it doesn't, it's a waste, no matter how cheap it was.

 

If the system had NO games you wanted to play, it wouldn't be in the running at all. That's kind of an assumption that I figured did not need to be said. I stand corrected. Evidently, it needed to be said, for your interpretation.

 

If the hypothetical potential gamer had funds to buy ONE (or one more) system, why would they even consider any that had no games they wanted to play? That's what makes no sense.