GroovyBee Posted June 8, 2009 Share Posted June 8, 2009 @Wickeycolumbus: Do you mean Bits Per Pixel (BPP)? 1 BPP= 2 colours 2 BPP= 4 colours 4 BPP= 16 colours 8 BPP= 256 colours and so on... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wickeycolumbus Posted June 8, 2009 Share Posted June 8, 2009 @Wickeycolumbus:Do you mean Bits Per Pixel (BPP)? 1 BPP= 2 colours 2 BPP= 4 colours 4 BPP= 16 colours 8 BPP= 256 colours and so on... I don't know, I have heard people say the SNES has 16 bit graphics, and the ps2 has 128 bit graphics, but that can't be BPP, because 128 bit would be 3.402823669*10^38 colors Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DracIsBack Posted June 8, 2009 Share Posted June 8, 2009 Sales wise for the early "32-bit" era (ie pre PSX), the 3DO was the most successful I don't think I've ever seen sales numbers for the 3DO that I trust. I was following the industry closely when it and the Jaguar were struggling for life and it always seemed like they were fairly close (and not doing well) in numbers. since the 3DO died, some people have claimed it sold two million, but that seems utterly ridiculous. I got the sense that if Atari sold 150,00 Jaguars, the 3DO maybe sold 200,000. I liked the system. As for the 32-bit thing. Let's take Jaguar out. Regardless of how well 3DO did or didn't sell, I'm pretty sure the Saturn and (especially the PS2) sold substantially better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GroovyBee Posted June 8, 2009 Share Posted June 8, 2009 I don't know, I have heard people say the SNES has 16 bit graphics, and the ps2 has 128 bit graphics, but that can't be BPP, because 128 bit would be 3.402823669*10^38 colors According to the Wiki the SNES has 15 bit colour so red, green and blue must be 5 bits each. The Wiki for the PS2 states its 32 bit colour, 8 bits each for read, green and blue and an 8 bit deep alpha channel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carmel_andrews Posted June 8, 2009 Share Posted June 8, 2009 As far as i know the psx/saturn were 16/32 bit as they used variants of the 68xxx series (but had a 32 bit data bus, though sega claimed that the saturn had a 64bit data bus) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+remowilliams Posted June 8, 2009 Share Posted June 8, 2009 As far as i know the psx/saturn were 16/32 bit as they used variants of the 68xxx series (but had a 32 bit data bus, though sega claimed that the saturn had a 64bit data bus) Please pass whatever powerful shit you are smoking to the right... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guitarmas Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 CD32 and Jaguar were the 2 most sucsessful 32 bit consoles. That's all I have to say. What have you been smoking? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamerz Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 CD32 and Jaguar were the 2 most sucsessful 32 bit consoles. That's all I have to say. What have you been smoking? I dont think its what, but how much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brojamfootball Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 Also, just to clear this, my Rap post was not a troll, it was a atempt to kickstart my rap career, and please bare and mind it was in the general chat section, so rapping is genral chat, also I am very serious about my rap career, and I felt Atari age was the best place to kickstart it. As for this post... did everyone have a good night last night? I know I did! Bare and mind, bear in mind, 220, 221, whatever it takes... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kool kitty89 Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 (edited) I don't think I've ever seen sales numbers for the 3DO that I trust. I was following the industry closely when it and the Jaguar were struggling for life and it always seemed like they were fairly close (and not doing well) in numbers. since the 3DO died, some people have claimed it sold two million, but that seems utterly ridiculous. I got the sense that if Atari sold 150,00 Jaguars, the 3DO maybe sold 200,000. I liked the system. As for the 32-bit thing. Let's take Jaguar out. Regardless of how well 3DO did or didn't sell, I'm pretty sure the Saturn and (especially the PS2) sold substantially better. Well I beleive the 3DO sold significantly better in markets outside the US (esp Japan) than the Jag did, but stil, 200,000 beats the CD32 as well, though the 32x (which could technicallt be considdered 16/32-bit due to the SN2's being on a 16-bit bus, though it's still in the same early part/trasition of the 5th gen) sold over 500,000 (that many had been produced in the initial run for North America alone I beleive, at which point orders were exceeding available units). In any case the Saturn did poorly in the US market, somwhere between 1-2 million, far less than the PSX or N64, and I have no idea why you mentioned the PS2... (the Sega CD did better in the US market) Of course it did quite well in Japan. The Jaguar was still pretty powerful, but heavily limited by design flaws and lack of tools to compensate for this. (and generally limited development support) As far as i know the psx/saturn were 16/32 bit as they used variants of the 68xxx series (but had a 32 bit data bus, though sega claimed that the saturn had a 64bit data bus) No, just no, there are so many things wrong with such a simple statement, it's about as bad as the initial topic post... The PSX had a MIPS R3000 series RISC cpu on a 32-bit data bus, the saturn has a pair of SH2 RISC's on a shared 32-bit bus, and the only thing relate to a 68k is the Saturn's 68EC000 audio controller. Now it should be noted that the 32x might be considdered 16/32-bit as it's pair of SH2's share a 16-bit bus, but that's a seperate issue and still has nothing to do with the 68k. Furthermore a 68k is a 32-bit processor internally, just stuck on a 16-bit data bus, granted it's ALU is also 16-bit, and this still doesn't necessarily make it more powerful than a comperable 286 or 65816. (though the 816 is actually 16-bit on an 8-bit data bus, though it's significantly more cycle efficient, also note all 3 of these examples offer 24-bit addressing) One advantage though is that the 68k can perform 32-bit operations and use 32-bit code. However, later members of the "68xxx" family as you called it, genuinely are fully 32-bit, the 68020 actually having some advantages over Intel's 386 (like an on-chip cache), the 68030 added some minor features like a split data/instruction cache and an on-chip MMU, it topped out at a higher speed than the 020. Continuing along the x86 comparison, the 040 was another jump, and more comperable to the 486, being pipelined much more cycle efficient than the 020/30, featured a larger cache and added an on-chip FPU, however (unlike comperable predicessors) it topped out at a much lower speed than its x86 counterpart. Likewise the 68060 featured further improvements including superscalar (multiple instructions per cycle), comperable in many respects to the Pentium, however (like the 040) it tooped out much slower than its counterpart and Motorola discontinued development in favor of RISC designs after this. (but I hope you get the general point by now) Edited June 9, 2009 by kool kitty89 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DracIsBack Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 Well I beleive the 3DO sold significantly better in markets outside the US (esp Japan) than the Jag did, but stil, 200,000 beats the CD32 as well, though the 32x (which could technicallt be considdered 16/32-bit due to the SN2's being on a 16-bit bus, though it's still in the same early part/trasition of the 5th gen) sold over 500,000 (that many had been produced in the initial run for North America alone I beleive, at which point orders were exceeding available units). Divide the initial order by 10. http://www.nytimes.com/1993/11/20/business...d-pleasing.html Followed by mid-1994 sales http://www.nytimes.com/1994/08/25/business...c-hardware.html By 1995, the Sony was in market globally and 3Do sales had collapsed (along with Jaguar). So, this does indeed suggest that it did better than Jaguar, but still far less than the others. In any case the Saturn did poorly in the US market, somwhere between 1-2 million Poorly, but not as poor as 3D0 and JAguar. , far less than the PSX or N64, and I have no idea why you mentioned the PS2 Typo. PS1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kool kitty89 Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 Sorry the 500,000 figure is for the 32x, not the 3DO, sorry if I worded that confusingly. ALso, I retract my statements about the 360 and PS3's CPU's which I made in my "bitness" discussion in my first post in this topic. Neeither are 32-bit, The cores of both have some similarities (at least the PPE portion of the PS3's Cell), these both featuer 64-bit "general purpose" registers" and floating point registers, and bot contain additional 128-bit altivec registers. Additionally, the majority of the Cell's cores are SPE's which contain only 128-bit registers) The Wii's CPU is still 32-bit though, and there's nothing "256-bit" about any of these. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frenchman Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 (edited) CD32 and Jaguar were the 2 most sucsessful 32 bit consoles. That's all I have to say. Where did you live during the 90s in UK? In a cave in Cornwall? Never heard of PlayStation? I suggest some reading of a few successful 90s UK gaming mags, eg Ultimate, C&VG, Games Master, Edge and so on... BTW, Jaguar was (and is) 64-bit, so you got that wrong for starters. Get's your facts right. Edited June 9, 2009 by frenchman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DracIsBack Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 CD32 and Jaguar were the 2 most sucsessful 32 bit consoles. That's all I have to say. Speaking of which, I noticed that you tried to undo my Wikipedia entry about Jaguar sales figures - which I pulled directly from Atari's own SEC filings put out when they announced they were leaving the business. One wonders what else you've tried to put on Wikipedia ...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcjakeqcool Posted June 9, 2009 Author Share Posted June 9, 2009 @carmel_andrews Yes that is rap. P.S I'm not high(anymore). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S1500 Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 This thread better throwdown some mad beets with a DJ spinning a CD32 in one side + Jaguar CD on the other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kool kitty89 Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 (edited) One wonders what else you've tried to put on Wikipedia ...? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Mcjakeqcool Luckily wikipedia is pretty tight in correcting this kind of stuff, they even caught my edit on the Atari 7800 sales figures (of which there are none listed) as I used Curt's thread as a sourse. (discussion forums are not a valid resourse; I couldn't really just use his name though, and the text file was indefinite as well, and only downloadable, not an actual web page) Edited June 9, 2009 by kool kitty89 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atarian63 Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 Sales wise for the early "32-bit" era (ie pre PSX), the 3DO was the most successful I don't think I've ever seen sales numbers for the 3DO that I trust. I was following the industry closely when it and the Jaguar were struggling for life and it always seemed like they were fairly close (and not doing well) in numbers. since the 3DO died, some people have claimed it sold two million, but that seems utterly ridiculous. I got the sense that if Atari sold 150,00 Jaguars, the 3DO maybe sold 200,000. I liked the system. As for the 32-bit thing. Let's take Jaguar out. Regardless of how well 3DO did or didn't sell, I'm pretty sure the Saturn and (especially the PS2) sold substantially better. On that same numbers issue, makes you wonder about how valid they are. I know a sale is a sale but at times an item is discontinued and there are a zillion remaining in the warehouse and are dumped at places like odd lots,KaY Bee etc. I know they are all sales but do they mean anything when the system has been killed and nobody is going to develope more titles for it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thegamezmaster Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 (edited) Not a rap as more a quote from a movie and a comment about the topic. Shwing! Edited June 9, 2009 by thegamezmaster Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BDW Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 One wonders what else you've tried to put on Wikipedia ...? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Mcjakeqcool Luckily wikipedia is pretty tight in correcting this kind of stuff, they even caught my edit on the Atari 7800 sales figures (of which there are none listed) as I used Curt's thread as a sourse. (discussion forums are not a valid resourse; I couldn't really just use his name though, and the text file was indefinite as well, and only downloadable, not an actual web page) He made a wikipedia article about himself? (evidence of such is just above the content box) What a loser. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GroovyBee Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 Deleted! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mcjakeqcool Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BDW Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 Deleted! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mcjakeqcool I am quite aware. He is a loser because he was egotistical enough to make a wiki page of himself, but he ultimately failed to do so when wikipedia told him he wasn't notable enough to be on wikipedia. Play him off Keyboard Cat! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattyg Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 I am pretty sure the estimate of two million 3do's is close to the mark. I have actually heard much higher but refuse to believe them.Remember there were 4 major production models (+ Korean clones) across 3 manufacturers and a pc card. Often sighted are the US and Japanese figures but it sold ok in Europe , Sth Korea and Sth America. As for the CD32 - it's figures are all over the place but remember as well outside the US it used existing Commodore/Amiga distribution channels and was widely available in countries like Australia that never saw an official Jag or 3DO release. And on the subject of sales figures....I used to work in retail and Sony would often force you to take x amount of PS3's if you wanted to sell their TV,s - there is also the issue of them giving away around 40,000 units with their TV's last year in Australia alone. Sony count giveaways and units collecting dust in retail warehouses as "sales". I wonder though how many of PS3 owners have only used it as a BLU-RAY player and dont actually have any games? As for Wii sales figures I can believe them as for 3 years running they completely sold out over christmas in Australia and I can assure you there were none in warehouses. The biggest pity of the Jag was the lack of retail support outside of the US . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DracIsBack Posted June 10, 2009 Share Posted June 10, 2009 (edited) I am pretty sure the estimate of two million 3do's is close to the mark. I'm convinced it sold better than the Jaguar, but I'm not at all convinced it's even half of 2 million. To be honest, even 500,000 is probably pushing it. Some articles from the time, reporting on 3DO's earnings: Dec 1993: About 50,000 produced and 20,000 shipped to dealers, punishing stock price http://www.nytimes.com/1993/12/17/business/market-place-3do-postpones-a-stock-offering-after-a-sobering-fall-from-grace.html?scp=6&sq=3D0%20sales&st=cse Aug 1994: Estimates of 200,000 sold worldwide http://www.nytimes.com/1994/08/25/business...pany&st=cse Dec 1994: Company "200,000 in Japan, 100,000 worldwide" and Sony PS1 and Sega Saturn now in market http://www.nytimes.com/1994/12/11/business...mp;pagewanted=4 Sept 1995: Sales start to pick up at $299 but analysts still skeptical http://www.nytimes.com/1995/09/07/business...1995&st=cse Oct 1995: Trip starts talking about giving up on the standard 3DO for the M2 (which never comes out) http://www.nytimes.com/1995/10/02/business...1995&st=cse Sept 1996: plans to get out of video game hardware business altogether http://www.nytimes.com/1996/09/17/business...pany&st=cse SEC filings: http://www.secinfo.com/dr6nd.82nf.htm Revenue for each fiscal year (which ended March 31st of that year) certainly increased but never seemed to suggest a mass volume of sales spiking. If December 1994 (2/3 through fiscal year 1995) they announced that "they were hoping to have sold 300,000 worldwide to date", I find it hard to believe that they suddenly moved 1.7 million units. You would have seen it in the revenue and they wouldn't have been talking about exiting the business. Revenue was as follows FY 1994 (Mar 93 - Mar 94) - 10,295 million FY 1995 (Mar 94 - Mar 95) - 30,380 million FY 1996 (Mar 95 - Mar 96) - 37, 918 million In an SEC filing (August 1996) they announced: "During the last half of calendar 1995 and the first five months of calendar 1996, consumer demand waned for the 3DO Multiplayer and third-party developers and the Company have discontinued development of software titles for this platform." http://google.brand.edgar-online.com/EFX_d...9WwjWq-zAf8X5u7 I find a million hard to believe, let alone 2 million. At the end of the day, arguing about the success of the CD32, Jaguar, 3DO, 32X and CD-i is kind of like arguing whether or not HOWARD THE DUCK, CUTHROAT ISLAND, ISHTAR and BATTLEFIELD EARTH did better at the box office. Edited June 10, 2009 by DracIsBack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Segataritensoftii Posted June 10, 2009 Share Posted June 10, 2009 I have a theory about this guy. He's just saying the opposite of what he means. So if he says CD32 and Jaguar were the most successful consoles of the 5th gen, he really means least successful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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