goatdan Posted October 24, 2002 Share Posted October 24, 2002 Bull---- this was a registered business, as there is is no sales tax added in checkout, and bull---- he declared bankruptcy even if it was. The only people chasing him are apparently 3/4 persons from a video game message board, not registered creditors. He has no one to declare bankruptcy from. Lets look at it correctly. Hey, I'm not trying to start a war. It is just a possibility. There has been a lot of stuff thrown around anti-Junie, and I'm just trying to counteract that a little bit with some reason, in hopes that Junie reappears. If he doesn't, perhaps I'm wrong, but I'm going to reserve judgement. You said in an earlier post that "an incentive could be produced." All I was pointing out is that if he is bankrupt, he may not be forced to repay his loans. I don't know if he is, nor do I want to speculate. I also don't know if he was a legal business or not... oesii made this comment -- "Anyway, I'd be more comfortable ordering something in stock or I'll pay when it's ready to ship not months before." Just another bit of counteracting... Gary and I would build our JAMMA line-up only after we were paid the money for it because the part cost was insanely high. If we were to build two of each stick to have ready to go, it would've cost us over $300.00. Small businesses cannot take hits such as that. If the demand is ultra-high, and 100 people want something that costs $40.00 apeice to build, it is very hard to just magically make $4000.00 dollars appear to satisfy the demand. In the underground homebrew scene, neither solution is a "good" solution for either side. Hope this makes a little more sense and clarifys my points some. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MegaManFan Posted October 24, 2002 Share Posted October 24, 2002 Gary and I would build our JAMMA line-up only after we were paid the money for it because the part cost was insanely high. If we were to build two of each stick to have ready to go, it would've cost us over $300.00. Small businesses cannot take hits such as that. If the demand is ultra-high, and 100 people want something that costs $40.00 apeice to build, it is very hard to just magically make $4000.00 dollars appear to satisfy the demand. In the underground homebrew scene, neither solution is a "good" solution for either side. Perhaps people who are serious about making homebrew items as a legitimate business ought to raise the capital BEFORE they start selling items to the public then, if they can't afford to take the hit each time to make one. That way you don't have to rely on pre-orders, and people don't get screwed on the pre-orders if they can't be fulfilled. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StanJr Posted October 24, 2002 Share Posted October 24, 2002 In an ideal world, I agree with you MegaMan, but you must remember 90% of homebrewers and the like are doing this stuff as a hobby, and not as a "business." They are doing it because they love the hobby, not because they are looking to clean up, because that just isn't going to happen. So raising capital for an effort like this is usually improbable or impractical. Not to mention raising capital for ANY small business venture is VERY VERY hard. Most of the expense comes straight from the homebrewer's pocket and usually at a loss for quite a while. Even well established businesses like Hozer are run on shoestring, order-to-order budgets. Junie set out with a great idea and a lot of good intentions, but it appears he took on more than he was able to handle. I still believe he has EVERY intention of completing his outstanding orders. His absence is the only mystery in all of this for me. I hope he can step up soon and clear all of this up for everyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goatdan Posted October 25, 2002 Share Posted October 25, 2002 In an ideal world, I agree with you MegaMan, but you must remember 90% of homebrewers and the like are doing this stuff as a hobby, and not as a "business." They are doing it because they love the hobby, not because they are looking to clean up, because that just isn't going to happen. So raising capital for an effort like this is usually improbable or impractical. Not to mention raising capital for ANY small business venture is VERY VERY hard. Most of the expense comes straight from the homebrewer's pocket and usually at a loss for quite a while. Even well established businesses like Hozer are run on shoestring, order-to-order budgets. Thank you Stan Jr! This is exactly true about most small 'obsolete' gaming businesses. Unless they have an insane amount of incredible turns for them, it is nearly impossible to break even or make money doing it as a hobby. As of right now, the GOAT Store, LLC has a good amount of assets, but we literally bought as we went. We started out in debt approximately $3000, and we are still in most of the debt. Considering that we've been around for over four years, if we didn't love the hobby we would've both gone for free time first. Since Junie's business required him producing everything himself (besides running the Web site, experimenting with products, etc) he would've had even less time than we do. Since he also was starting up, I'm sure that he had more expenses than a more established business has (starting up takes more money than maintaining and/or growing, believe it or not.) [/i] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtariKari Posted October 25, 2002 Author Share Posted October 25, 2002 Boo hoo. This would all be over if Tom would write an email or post, and wasting time conjecturing with nice people on a computer screen is not worth it. First: Dan, the Goat store sold a wicked Jag controller back in the day (and may still). Your empathy is understandable, but you have run an up-front business from the start and have always been accessable, so you may not be defending a person of your ilk. Stan, you are the most active member on this board, and therefore what you type carries heavily on a place I like to lurk and post from time to time. I am currently trying to mod my 2600 for composite and it is a bear of time and effort to get it right, so I sympathise that Tom put forth a difficult proposition, but I did not offer to accept cash to do it for other people almost six months ago. He placed the responsibility on himself. Junie's Creations doesn't feel like a labor of love anymore, just a nice guy who couldn't hack it and has my cash and my Atari 2600. Bah. And for the record, "bullshit" is in the OED. Unless Alex/Albert chop it I won't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MegaManFan Posted October 25, 2002 Share Posted October 25, 2002 In an ideal world, I agree with you MegaMan, but you must remember 90% of homebrewers and the like are doing this stuff as a hobby, and not as a "business." Entirely a valid point. From the outside looking in though, as somebody who has gotten hosed on several expensive Atari transaction this year alone (a $40 7800 doorstop, an $85 PAL Boing) I'm very sympathetic to people who plunked down good money, have nothing to show for it, and nobody to contact for a refund. Therefore I look at the situation like this: * If you make homebrew items for vintage consoles as a hobby, then it's something you do in your spare time and which you probably only sell on a one to one basis; or you trade your creations for similar products or vintage console items. * If you make homebrew items for vintage consoles as a business, then it's something you advertise to the marketplace (which Junie's Creations did vis-a-vis this website) and which you do in bulk with the intention of not just making back parts and labor but for profit as well. Now I'll grant you some people skirt the line between the two. I'm sure Paul Slocum will say that he did projects like Marble Craze and the Synth Cart because they were fun to do and he appreciated the challenge; so he probably enjoys sharing it with others more than making money on it. On the other hand, it can't hurt that the game gets (deservedly) rave reviews and everybody wants a copy. The way I see it, Junie's Creations went beyond being a venture for fun. The business tapped into a market of unfulfilled demand for oddball controllers and accessories, and it certainly seemed to be set up to fill that demand with at least a modest profit to show for it. I saw some of Junie's Creations at the AtariAge booth at CGE2K2 and although I didn't buy any, they certainly seemed to be quality products that met the expectations of those who DID purchase them. What everybody seems to agree on is this - they may have been TOO good. First the demand exceeded the capacity of a single owner proprietorship business to produce them, then apparently the owner had a liquidity problem not related to the business itself, and when you throw in computer trouble plus unyielding demand plus liquidity trouble it may not just be the business that collapsed but the owner himself due to mental breakdown. Junie set out with a great idea and a lot of good intentions, but it appears he took on more than he was able to handle. I still believe he has EVERY intention of completing his outstanding orders. His absence is the only mystery in all of this for me. I hope he can step up soon and clear all of this up for everyone. As do I. This issue has been hanging around the AtariAge boards like a dark black cloud for a long time now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goatdan Posted October 25, 2002 Share Posted October 25, 2002 Boo hoo. This would all be over if Tom would write an email or post, and wasting time conjecturing with nice people on a computer screen is not worth it. True. Perhaps I'm a little bit too optomistic, but we've had people's checks bounce on us who come back six months later and say, "Oh no! We owe you some money!" I would hope Junie does the same thing. We're sorry, but we don't have any {system name} items right now. We are working hard on getting them, so make sure to come back soon! Our Web site was temporarly put on all of the banned parental controls Web sites because it said, "hard on." *shrug* All righty, I'll stop posting about this now... Just wanted to keep my $0.02 in there... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StanJr Posted October 25, 2002 Share Posted October 25, 2002 Stan, you are the most active member on this board, and therefore what you type carries heavily on a place I like to lurk and post from time to time WOW! Don't I wish! Seriously though, I am not defending Junie's current actions (mainly because I don't know what is going on with him personally). I think what he is doing (or not doing as the case may be) is simply bad, bad business, and I don't think he can really ever expect to re-establish himself again any time soon as a legit operation. But that is his bed and he will have to lie in it. All I can say is that from all of my dealings with Junie of the past year he has ALWAYS been a sincere and honest person. I just wish he would show up, (or even just contact me) and settle all of this as soon as possible. Because right now, a pretty cool guy that I like is getting his name sullied and I'd like to see him come through on all of his orders and at least partially redeem himself. As for classic gaming businesses. Regardless of whether they are goatstore, Atariage, Hozer, or Junie's Creations, every one of them will tell you that they are in NO way in this to make truck loads of cash (well except for maybe Albert, but he's a punk ). It truly is a hobby first, business second. And therefore budgets are usually consistently small or non-existent. You can read more about this in my two part interview with Junie and Randy from Hozer here: http://www.atarinvader.com/modules.php?nam...rticle&artid=22 shameless plug Stan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.Yancey Posted October 25, 2002 Share Posted October 25, 2002 If you're losing $$$ then raise your prices or cut you costs! If you're making even a tiny bit of $$$ or breaking even then continuing production is not a problem. Tom must at least complete the orders that were already paid for or SEND PROMPT REFUNDS!!! I would still rather have the finished product, but if that just isn't possible---come accross with the cash. My stuff was already long overdue and long since paid for when the "Problems" post was put on this board. Does anyone know what city or state he is from? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StanJr Posted October 26, 2002 Share Posted October 26, 2002 If you're losing $$$ then raise your prices or cut you costs! I'm not going to argue this issue any further, except to say this. If you raise your prices you lose your customers, and if you could cut your costs anymore you would have already. Plus cutting costs usually leads to a dip in quality of product or service. But yes, Junie should have completed the paid for items by now or at least contacted people regarding refunds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landsmarra Posted October 26, 2002 Share Posted October 26, 2002 Gentlemen, I too must add my name to the list of folks waiting for products from Tom Cosby Jr. I sent him a 2600 for customization along with about $100. I was getting the unit painted, all new switches, new voltage regulator (a freebie he threw in for my "large" order), the AV modification, one 15-pin controller, two 9-pin controllers and 2 dust covers. I sent it insured for $50 on June 3 to Harrodsburg, IN (dyancey wanted to know where he is). The last communication I received was in August saying I would get a status in "a few days." Future emails from me have gone unanswered. The numerous emails I traded with him during June and July were very friendly and obliging. I guess you all have had as much luck as I have had. I also do not think he's a scam. If so, he went through a lot of trouble to put up the website with all those pictures. Hopefully he can straighten himself out and deliver everyone's product. StanJr and Geo Reese are both reliable people who know Tom and have also been trying to contact him. Let's all keep our fingers crossed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moycon Posted October 26, 2002 Share Posted October 26, 2002 I hope nothing terrible has happened to Junie. That would suck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.Yancey Posted December 4, 2002 Share Posted December 4, 2002 Update: As of today, Junie's e-mail addresses are closed. I've been mailing quite often and none have ever been returned for a full box, so he must have been checking it from time to time. Today, the return error says "closed". He never returned any of my e-mail since his signing off in June. I do not think he intends to make good on anything. This is a bad sign for all optimists and hopefuls who are out cold hard cash! Did the special forum ever form for this topic? I haven't seen anything. Does anyone know anything about him? Send me a private message or an e-mail! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtariKari Posted December 4, 2002 Author Share Posted December 4, 2002 And that's that *door slamming shut* I guess a great idea like that takes a little more fortitude of character to pull off, and a less amount of intrinsic cowardace to own up to, publicly or not, when it fails. As for the devoted forum, I don't think that ever came to pass (yet?). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Mitchell Posted December 4, 2002 Share Posted December 4, 2002 I hope nothing terrible has happened to Junie. That would suck. If he had a bad car wreck .. or had a stroke .. or heart attack .. that would be unfortunate and understandable about a new handicapp .. Too bad he did not have a partner who could pick up the slack .. Anyway I am thinking of starting to make some of the items that Junie was selling .. like the gameport splitter, adapters, and the AV mod project. I have proposed to Al that these items be offered through the Atariage store to avoid controversy. Rob Mitchell, Atlanta, GA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaybird Posted December 4, 2002 Share Posted December 4, 2002 I ordered two of the NES controllers remade for the Atari when Junie first opened shop. I received them within a couple of weeks of ordering. As Albert said earlier, they were quite useless with a 7800/2600 Jr, and had a horrible looking stiff white cord that you could use as a lance. Of course, this was well before the hard times set in, but I think he intended to be an honest business person. Unfortunately, it seems ethics have gone out the window with his rumored hard times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sku_u Posted December 4, 2002 Share Posted December 4, 2002 Bull-t this was a registered business, as there is is no sales tax added in checkout, and bullshit he declared bankruptcy even if it was. The only people chasing him are apparently 3/4 persons from a video game message board, not registered creditors. He has no one to declare bankruptcy from. Lets look at it correctly. Accepting money for Goods or services through the mail and never delivering said services/goods or making an attempt to refund/fill those orders constitutes mail fraud. That is a federal offense. Personally, I've never had any dealings with this guy, nor do I have anything against him. If all attempts to contact him have failed, and he doesn'y make any attempts to contact anyone within the next several months, you can file a lawsuit against him. If you can't find him, you can locate him through the IPO of his web site. Why don't all those he owes money to compile a list of legitimate monies owed and send him a form letter to his home address telling him that you want some kind of goods or a refund/contact from him. If he doesn't respond in a timely manner (say 6-8 weeks), take legal action. I'd also like to suggest moving this thread to the Announcements forum as it is off topic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.Yancey Posted December 7, 2002 Share Posted December 7, 2002 If I had his home address, I'd have visited him by now. It's somewhere in IN, but I wouldn't care if he lived in Austrailia. As for something bad having happened... one could speculate... Rehab??? Mail fraud? Oh well, I used PayPal, but you're correct. Where's that private forum? I need that home address. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cupcakus Posted December 7, 2002 Share Posted December 7, 2002 If he was a verified PayPal seller, you should have his address and telephone number in your PayPal records... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chromizone Posted December 8, 2002 Share Posted December 8, 2002 ouch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.Yancey Posted March 31, 2003 Share Posted March 31, 2003 I've still never heard anything back from Tom Cosby, Jr. after all this time. So, I filed a complaint about juniecreations today at www.ftc.gov/tips There was an easy online complaint form to fill out at this site. Anyone who was ripped off by Cosby, please file a form also. Maybe others can add to the info I gave them and we can get something done. At least get some answers about what happened to our money! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ATARI TROLL Posted April 3, 2003 Share Posted April 3, 2003 Sounds like Tom is a nice guy who needs to handle 1 project at a time. Then I bet all his shipments would be quick and on time. The fact that he sold items at the CGE and not completing his other contracts with his customer is BS. It would be like me pulling up behind you in SONIC and asking if I can have your parking spot and you can have it back when I'm finished. Din'nt make much sense with that last one. I guess it doesn't matter, I'm not Tom. Cheers from the 50 yard line (yes, I'm being a smartass) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mock Posted April 3, 2003 Share Posted April 3, 2003 http://www.whitepages.com/search/Find_Pers...ip=&state_id=IN I don't know if ^ that is the same one or not...I'm guessing not...but his WHOIS shows this: Registrant: Junies Creations (JUNIESCREATIONS-DOM) 9244 South First Avenue P.O. Box 144 HARRODSBURG IN,47434 US Domain Name: JUNIESCREATIONS.COM Administrative Contact: Cosby JR., Thomas (FOONCXAFCI) junies_c@HOTPOP.COM Junies Creations 9244 South First Avenue P.O. Box 144 HARRODSBURG, IN 47434 US (812) 824-3732 Technical Contact: Technical Support (TS1126-ORG) dnscontact@HOSTSAVE.COM HostSave 101 Continental Blvd 3rd Fl El Segundo, CA 90245 US 866-233-2401 Fax- - 310-354-1592 Record expires on 01-Jul-2003. Record created on 01-Jul-2002. Database last updated on 2-Apr-2003 20:27:42 EST. Domain servers in listed order: NS1.HOSTSAVE.COM 207.150.196.199 NS2.HOSTSAVE.COM 207.150.197.103 Might be a way to get in touch with him and see what's up? Mock Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landsmarra Posted April 3, 2003 Share Posted April 3, 2003 Well, the Harrodsburg, IN address sounds right as that's where I sent my 2600 to be modded! Has anybody tried to contact him? Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.Yancey Posted April 5, 2003 Share Posted April 5, 2003 Wow! Thanks for the more complete info. I've been asking for this on the board for almost a year! It may help Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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