Interest check : SaveKey utility cart

[GroovyBee]

I've integrated SaveKey support into my 7800 "C" development system. It has a test application that allows you to view the data stored on the SaveKey. I'm gauging interest in taking this further by developing a cart that will allow you to :-

• Backup your SaveKey data on a PC.
  
• Restore SaveKey data from the PC.
  
• View SaveKey data in hex.
  
• Clone SaveKeys (one in each joystick port).
  

You'd need a special cable that connects the 7800 to the PC (comes with the cart). It would interface to a USB serial port cable/dongle (purchased separately) for modern PCs.

 

Any interest, comments or suggestions?

[SeaGtGruff]

Any interest, comments or suggestions?

(1) I assume we'll need a SaveKey, correct? (I.e., this doesn't *replace* a SaveKey, does it?)

 

(2) What kind of price are we talking about?

 

(3) Could you make it a 2600 cart so it would work on a 2600 or 7800, or does it need to be strictly a 7800 cart?

 

Michael

[GroovyBee]

(1) I assume we'll need a SaveKey, correct? (I.e., this doesn't *replace* a SaveKey, does it?)

Correct! You will need a SaveKey too. I'm sure I could provide options e.g.

SaveKey utility cart + cable

SaveKey utility cart + cable + SaveKey

and maybe also...

SaveKey utility cart + cable + SaveKey + USB dongle

(2) What kind of price are we talking about?

I've not got that far yet into the project yet. Its just an "is it a desirable item" query at the moment. The only part I have working so far is the SaveKey data viewer.

(3) Could you make it a 2600 cart so it would work on a 2600 or 7800, or does it need to be strictly a 7800 cart?

I know about the 7800 so its an easier development route. However, given enough interest I could go for the 2600 cart solution.

[gambler172]

Hi Mark

For me please

SaveKey utility cart + cable + SaveKey + USB dongle

greetings Walter

[MegaManFan]

I know I've been inactive for a little while so somebody bring me up to speed - what's a SaveKey?

[GroovyBee]

Its a little flash memory on a PCB that plugs into the joystick port. It was originally designed by Richard H. It allows games to save their data on it like high score charts.

 

Only a few games support it. I know that b*nQ supports it on the 7800, not sure about the 2600 homebrew games (other than Juno First).

[GroovyBee]

Maybe if was possible to call the SaveKey's read/write functions in batari basic it might get more support from the homebrew community. Any takers?

[CPUWIZ]

I know I've been inactive for a little while so somebody bring me up to speed - what's a SaveKey?

 

[GroovyBee]

Any other comments and suggestions?

[GroovyBee]

This is the full list of SaveKey compatible games :-

 

2600:

Man Goes Down

Fall Down

Go Fish!

Strat-O-Gems

AStar

Lead / Pitch'n'Catch

Elevators Amiss

Juno First

Karate Master

 

7800:

b*nQ

 

Maybe if the cart had joystick/paddle/driving controller tests, a 7800 internal RAM test and an XBOARD RAM/POKEY test built in it would be more useful?

[Sonaru]

Sorry to resurrect an old thread but I'm very interested in backing up save data from the SaveKey to my PC. Does anyone have a method to backup save data at this point in time?

 

I'd like to buy an Atarivox or SaveKey but if there isn't a method to backup save data, then I won't be able to purchase one. I sometimes use emulators when traveling so being able to transfer save data between my laptop and Atari console would be great. 

[+-^CrossBow^-]

I've not seen anything specific to that, but I do know that some limited function to at least be able to view save key data or explore it, was added to @RevEng's 7800 utility cart rom.

 

But I could see the importance of being able to back up those saves and use them elsewhere!

 

[+Karl G]

I'd also love to have a good way to read/write savekey data from a PC. I wish there were a SD card version of the SaveKey; that way one wouldn't have to worry about special cables or drivers or the like to move data back and forth.

[+Gemintronic]

How about a Melody+ board that has non volatile SARA RAM.  Something like an FRAM chip, battery backed RAM or commands to read/write SARA RAM to the flash memory.

 

At that point someone could develop a SaveKey copying cart that transfers information from one SaveKey to another.  Possibly serving as the master backup.

 

One can dream

[Sonaru]

I like these ideas. While on the topic of the SaveKey, does anyone remember the name of the adapter that lets you play two player games while the Atarivox is plugged into the second controller port?

[+SmittyB]

I'd suggest having a look into this http://www.2600-daptor.com/AtariVox-daptor.htm . I use the adaptor so that I can develop AtariVox speech using a custom tool, and I don't see why it couldn't also work with the SaveKey.

That page has a tool for dumping / updating the EEPROM but I've not been able to get it to work so somebody would need to write software to do that, but that should be much easier than custom hardware.

[+-^CrossBow^-]

3 hours ago, Sonaru said:

I like these ideas. While on the topic of the SaveKey, does anyone remember the name of the adapter that lets you play two player games while the Atarivox is plugged into the second controller port?

You are talking about the QuadTari device. I have one and it does indeed allow the use of a second player controller and use of the savekey for score saves. But this only works with games designed to use the QuadTari.

 

[Sonaru]

Oh I didn't realize it would only work for specific games designed for the multiplayer adapter. Where can I purchase this QuadAtari adapter?

 

Also does this adapter mean you can actually have four players at the same time? That's awesome!

Edited November 19, 2021 by Sonaru

[+-^CrossBow^-]

22 minutes ago, Sonaru said:

Oh I didn't realize it would only work for specific games designed for the multiplayer adapter. Where can I purchase this QuadAtari adapter?

 

Also does this adapter mean you can actually have four players at the same time? That's awesome!

For games that are designed to use it for up to 4 players yes. And in fact I think a dev here created a simple racing game that just uses the paddle controller fire button. As such, that game technically support up to 8 players.

 

You can purchase one here btw:

 

https://www.bitethechili.com/quadtari/

 

[+Karl G]

I made a simple 7800 4-player game a while back. I'd love to see more that take advantage of the Quadtari on the 7800.

 

 

[+batari]

On 11/18/2021 at 11:44 AM, Gemintronic said:

How about a Melody+ board that has non volatile SARA RAM.  Something like an FRAM chip, battery backed RAM or commands to read/write SARA RAM to the flash memory.

 

One can dream

No need to dream, both the Melody board and the AtariAge Aria board are capable of this. The game Star Castle Arcade saves high scores on the cartridge itself from its SARA-like RAM (I believe it’s 256 bytes rather than 128). No other games have leveraged this ability that I know of though. 

[+Gemintronic]

25 minutes ago, batari said:

No need to dream, both the Melody board and the AtariAge Aria board are capable of this. The game Star Castle Arcade saves high scores on the cartridge itself from its SARA-like RAM (I believe it’s 256 bytes rather than 128). No other games have leveraged this ability that I know of though. 

Thank you for the info!  Does this mean the existing SaveKey libraries / examples for batari BASIC work with the Melody board?

 

Or, even better: does your wonderful creation (bB) already have direct support?

 

 

UPDATE:

My addled brain left out a third possibility.  Is there a link to assembly routines / examples for Melody built-in SaveKey support?  I could probably use inline assembly in batari BASIC if that's the way to go.

[+batari]

52 minutes ago, Gemintronic said:

Thank you for the info!  Does this mean the existing SaveKey libraries / examples for batari BASIC work with the Melody board?

 

Or, even better: does your wonderful creation (bB) already have direct support?

 

 

UPDATE:

My addled brain left out a third possibility.  Is there a link to assembly routines / examples for Melody built-in SaveKey support?  I could probably use inline assembly in batari BASIC if that's the way to go.

It's not using SaveKey functions directly to save to cart flash, but instead the hardware just saves the entirety of the cartridge RAM directly to the Melody board's internal flash. A bankswitch scheme was created which is a modified CBS RAM+ scheme. This is similar to SARA but uses 256 bytes instead of 128 bytes, and if I remember right, 6 banks, so it's a 24k game. There are a couple of hotspots in addition to the CBS+ bankswitch hotspots which control the reading and writing to flash.

 

I think the only example is Star Castle Arcade, and source for that may be found here. https://subversion.assembla.com/svn/starcastle/

 

This hasn't been adapted to batari Basic, unfortunately. But assembly-language programmers could use it. Emulators already support this bankswitch scheme and hardware exists for a game release through AtariAge, should anyone else want to use it (or adapt an existing game to it, if they wanted to add support for saving game data directly to the cartridge.) In addition, there should also be Harmony cart support for it.

[SIO2]

On 11/18/2021 at 12:08 PM, Karl G said:

I'd also love to have a good way to read/write savekey data from a PC. I wish there were a SD card version of the SaveKey; that way one wouldn't have to worry about special cables or drivers or the like to move data back and forth.

I believe there is a good way to do this with an eprom programmer that supports the 24C256 eprom.

 

Just make an adapter from the 9 pin Savekey to the eprom programmer ZIF socket.

 

I know a lot of people don't have eprom programmers but, I thought I would put it out there as one possible way to do this. The programmer can not only program the eprom on the Savekey but dump it to a file. Then it can be copied to another Savekey.  Also, a Savekey can be blanked by using a Hex editor to create a 32k file containing all FF and then programming the Savekey with that file.

 

At least this works for the Savekey compatible device I have built for my own use with my 7800 game Sick Pickles.

 

I wonder though if once a Savekey is dumped to a file, can Stella or some other emulator access it like an ordinary Savekey?

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 13, 2022 by SIO2
Added info

[+stephena]

35 minutes ago, SIO2 said:

I wonder though if once a Savekey is dumped to a file, can Stella or some other emulator access it like an ordinary Savekey?

Stella uses a 32KB file for the SaveKey data, located in different places based on the host OS.  For Linux, it's in `$HOME/.config/stella/nvram/`.  On my system there are several files there; one is named `savekey_eeprom.dat`.  Assuming the dump has the bytes in the same place, just rename the file and put it in that location, and Stella can use it.