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My opinion as a coleco owner and homebrewer


newcoleco

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The following text is a draft of questions and thinkings based on my experience with ColecoVision games, homebrew and commercial ones. So, if you feel that I'm attacking you, think twice, because I do not mention anybody, it's just my feeling about what is going on and simply ignore this thread if it's too much for you.

 

1 - I don't like some Coleco games, but I don't bash on them. For example, I don't like DamBuster because I don't know how to play it, and I don't like Illusion because I can't pass the first level. Beside that, I don't think I have the rights to bash on these games. Considering the period of time, and the cost restrictions about deadlines and eproms, the games they released back then was quite impressives. As a programmer who did program some games under deadlines, size constaints and other issues, I have a pretty good idea about the stress they had and I respect their work. I can imagine easily the discussions they had about cost reductions to produce some arcade ports without any help like the Internet, and the difficult decisions they took back then to release in time enough titles to compete with the other game systems in the market. I don't feel the rights to bash on these old games, even if they look a bit choppy (Subroc gameplay and display may have been improved) or not looks like the original arcade game (Space Fury is using vectors and different speed for the ennemies).

 

2 - The most successful homebrew games are ports, because gamers enjoy playing again these classic commercial success. But I try to tell every year that it's ok to do something else for the ColecoVision (you can include here new modules and controllers). The mentality of "arcade at home" is so deep installed into our head that it's twice the challenge to even show up an exclusivity, an original game. I like to think that "Your vision is our vision, ColecoVision" is an invitation to be original; by sharing my personal coleco game projects with you, I'm making my vision of a coleco game part of our vision. Programmers know that, even if it's not perfect, an arcade port will be sucessful, based on the success of the original vesion; so why bother thinking of doing original games? My answer to this question is that we don't have to constraint our projects to "arcade at home", we have multiple choices including totally original titles. I did show that we can release original games, and I don't think it was a waste of time.

 

3 - The ColecoVision games library should increase, there is plenty of space for many many games. We can do RPG, Text Adventure, Realtime Strategy games to fill up the gaps. Even a simple Chess game is missing, what a shame! Instead of that, the reccent discussions are about redoing games already in the ColecoVision games library. I understand that some people want to get the arcade impression of these classic arcade games, and we have now the possibility to do games like this with over 32K of ROM without worrying about if it's gonna work or not. My feeling is that by redoing arcade games already in cartridges we are not making new games for this console, we are trying to fix deceptions of the past, which is sad. Redoing Mr.Do, Donkey Kong, etc... it's possible to do that, and good for you if it's what you want, but I personnaly will not consider these games as new games for this console. With all the numerous new games around, a "redo" is not what I'm looking for to continue my personnal ColecoVision games collection.

 

4 - Some ColecoVision owners are probably looking at what I've done so far and think that I'm generous with my time, knowledge, documents, tools, source codes, but also think that I'm an asshole who can't maintain a web site and spread remarks like bullets that doesn't match their opinions. My answer is : I'm sorry, you're totally right to think different than me on many subjects, but it's not necessary to insult me to make your point. I may look like a dictator who want to impose his point of view, but what I'm really doing is simply sharing my point of view with you. We know that an opinion is something personal, and we can't discuss rationnaly about what you prefer compared to what I prefer, it's a personal choice. So, if you did feel insulted with this message, please calm down, it was not my intention to do so.

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2 - The most successful homebrew games are ports, because gamers enjoy playing again these classic commercial success. But I try to tell every year that it's ok to do something else for the ColecoVision (you can include here new modules and controllers). The mentality of "arcade at home" is so deep installed into our head that it's twice the challenge to even show up an exclusivity, an original game. I like to think that "Your vision is our vision, ColecoVision" is an invitation to be original; by sharing my personal coleco game projects with you, I'm making my vision of a coleco game part of our vision. Programmers know that, even if it's not perfect, an arcade port will be sucessful, based on the success of the original vesion; so why bother thinking of doing original games? My answer to this question is that we don't have to constraint our projects to "arcade at home", we have multiple choices including totally original titles. I did show that we can release original games, and I don't think it was a waste of time.

While I can agree that releasing new and original games is always a good thing, there's something to be said about the economics of releasing well-known ports, especially of arcade games. Releasing a boxed game with manual is an expensive endeavour, and a homebrewer cannot release just any game and expect to get back their invested money in full, unless he starts charging high prices. That explains the draw of arcade ports for the most part, because an easely recognizable game translates into more sales, and a better chance of breaking even with those sales. We're not talking about making a profit here, because there's no profit in making CV games, even with the high-profile homebrew titles.

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I think people are more willing to buy games they are familiar playing. Many of us got back into video games to do a little reliving of our youth and what better way than playing some of the old (but improved) ports. That being said, I do wish more programmers would create new and unique games. The colecovision library isn't nearly as diverse as other systems. I would LOVE to see sports games that are well done (I seriously think the baseball and football games on the Odyssey2 are more playable). I'm not into RPG's but I think their is a market for it. Perhaps a sim-city style (the original).

 

I'm very thankful that the colecovision community and gaming community have people willing to donate their time to creating new games and updating the old to make them more like the arcade. Keep them coming!!!

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i had already give my point of view on that in other thread somewhere, but as we have a dedicated thread now..

 

I have no concern about seing arcade port on coleco. The colecovision original spirit was the "arcade at home" so doing arcade port on the coleco keeps the original feeling. Even if nowaday it is less interresting than back in time.

 

About "re doing" an existing port. I can understand for very bad port.

 

What i don't really understand it is MSX "conversion". At the end we have almost the same exact game than the MSX one except it runs on a coleco.

A MSX computer cost around 20$ , and game cartridge can be found easly between 2$ and 30$... so why to buy a coleco cartridge you will paid around 50$ when you can have it so easly on msx.

 

Speaking of MSX game, i would prefer a total re-programming than a conversion. We could have better games.

 

Concerning game that requires an additionnal custom module (like the OM) , here i don't understand the interrest. You modify the console to have a better console to have better game. So.. for me.. simply buy a Sega Master System , you will have a better console with better game. (even if i'm very admirative concering Opcode work on its Module and games)

 

But as newcoleco, i would love to see more new good original game. But it is harder to do that an arcade port. To make an enjoyable game concept is not so easy.

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A MSX computer cost around 20$ , and game cartridge can be found easly between 2$ and 30$...

Where are you, exactly? Not much of MSX anything can be found "easily" in the US, since it never went mainstream here. All I've ever found in 15+ years of thrifting is one Spectravision console.

Edited by Bruce Tomlin
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Where are you, exactly? Not much of MSX anything can be found "easily" in the US, since it never went mainstream here. All I've ever found in 15+ years of thrifting is one Spectravision console.

 

I'm in France. Msx didn't have a great success here , but we can find them (MSX 1) easily . (the other are more difficult to find) . I have 3 Msx and a good amount of cartridge on it.

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I'm in France. Msx didn't have a great success here , but we can find them (MSX 1) easily . (the other are more difficult to find) . I have 3 Msx and a good amount of cartridge on it.

So maybe now you see why the interest in porting MSX games to Colecovision. MSX essentially didn't exist in the US. A couple of Spectravision consoles, probably only available by mail-order, and no cartridges. That's it. The crash of '84 suppressed a lot of systems from ever appearing in the US, or from appearing in quantities significant enough to notice. (People make "top ten worst game systems" lists all the time who have never heard of the Arcadia 2001, the US version of the Hanimex/Leisurevision, but they make sure to include the Studio II, which was only the second cartridge system ever, and in my experience, noticably rarer.)

 

Guess when the MSX came out? Late 1983. And with no MSX1, nobody would have wanted an MSX2. The market was already tied up by the NES, the C64, and the PC at the various levels, with the Mac, Amiga, and ST filling in the cracks for those who (rightly, in my opinion) thought that the 8088 was a piece of crap.

Edited by Bruce Tomlin
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It is strange that MSX standard never really came out To US. Microsoft being one of the strong instigator of this Standard.

 

But anyway , with Ebay it is very easy to find an msx , ebay is world wide. Of course, the shipping increase the price and you have to take care of different power supply standard. But Still if you order your msx from oversea , for 60$-100$ you should be able to get an MSX (including shipping cost) and cartriges for $10-$50.

 

I think the best solution for you in US would be Opcode (for instance) make a MSX adaptator for the Coleco to play directly MSX cartridge on the coleco. (something similar to the 2600 one). This way you won't have to spend time in port , and if it is so difficult to find msx cartridge in your country ,some people could produce MSX cartridge in addition of coleco ones but starting from existing roms.

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Well, NTSC is not exclusive to America. Maybe I'm wrong, but it was a huge popularity for the MSX-1 computers in Asia, and that includes Japan which uses also NTSC. So, there are probably more sources of MSX computers based on NTSC than we may think of. And yes, there is a MSX in a chip, which I don't have a clue about what it's based on... I kinda hope it's not based on Marat fMSX with the graphic and sound rendering that can't play my games properly yet.

 

5 - I've talked with many other videogame collectors and some of them don't consider homebrew games as collectables. For them, the number of Coleco games is fixed, and I'm not sure what they think about releasing prototypes like DigDug, SteamRoller, Fireman, etc. Honnestly, I don't know if these collectors did consider games like the Collection series by Opcode as collectables based on what I've heard... or if it's just a way for them to say that they don't consider games like mines as real ColecoVision games. I do not personally mix homebrew and commercial Coleco games, mostly because they represent two different times in my collection... but I do consider homebrew games as collectables. And if we think about some of the crazy eBay auctions about some homebrew Coleco games, they have values we may never expected before, and sometimes more than commercial games. And most important, if I have fun to play videogames, I have fun to collect them... homebrew or not.

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A game is good or not . There are good commercial games and good homebrew games but also bad games in both camp!

 

Generally ,i prefer Homebrew game just because there are made with "love" . As opposite to commercial game where for most of them are made with "business" only.

 

However as collector, i don't collect Homebrew. But if i really like a homebrew game i buy it.

 

Concerning MSX you are right, they have been a huge success in Japan and they use NTSC and 110V powersupply. (in europe we have PAL or SECAM with 220v powersupply)

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The following text is a draft of questions and thinkings based on my experience with ColecoVision games, homebrew and commercial ones. So, if you feel that I'm attacking you, think twice, because I do not mention anybody, it's just my feeling about what is going on and simply ignore this thread if it's too much for you.

 

 

I agree with most of your points, and I have noticed all the ports dominating the colecovision scene at present, but I guess I'm a little laid back towards it. When I get around to writing my own games for the colecovision, they won't be ports - I prefer trying new stuff plus I won't have to worry about all the copyright bullshit that way. (I'll avoid ranting on the state of copyright for the sake of readers. ;))

 

This doesn't mean I don't buy homebrewed ports but I am more likely to buy a well polished original homebrew.

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I concur with the points made by Bruce and others, i.e. that conversions for "sister consoles" like the MSX and SG-1000 are a great way to make titles available that weren't issued in the United States. I've been exploring the libraries of both consoles lately, and I'm especially bewildered at the prospect of figuring out the array of MSX options, were I to track down real hardware.

 

Pipe dream: I would love to see the SG-1000 game library available on the CV in its entirety, basically mooting a console (with the exception of a handful of SC-3000 titles) that's tough for me to track down anyway. On the other hand, I'm not a collector, and with the exception of more in-depth games like Black Onyx and The Castle, it would be difficult for me to justify purchasing each title individually -- I just don't have the money or space. For the more lightweight games, then, it'd be nice to see formal multicarts with multiple conversions per cart (all the Championship games, say).

 

But I don't know that that would have the same appeal to collectors or producers. Then again, the "Collection" titles seem very popular, so maybe the template for that is already there.

 

As for new original games, I'd love to see more, and hope to contribute someday! One of these days I'll have to figure out how to write CV music. Is it frame-timed like the VCS?

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2 - The most successful homebrew games are ports, because gamers enjoy playing again these classic commercial success. But I try to tell every year that it's ok to do something else for the ColecoVision (you can include here new modules and controllers). The mentality of "arcade at home" is so deep installed into our head that it's twice the challenge to even show up an exclusivity, an original game. I like to think that "Your vision is our vision, ColecoVision" is an invitation to be original; by sharing my personal coleco game projects with you, I'm making my vision of a coleco game part of our vision. Programmers know that, even if it's not perfect, an arcade port will be sucessful, based on the success of the original vesion; so why bother thinking of doing original games? My answer to this question is that we don't have to constraint our projects to "arcade at home", we have multiple choices including totally original titles. I did show that we can release original games, and I don't think it was a waste of time.

 

And it seems gamers are willing to buy and play games that are not ports from arcades or other consoles. When I created Cye I did not expect it to be very popular on the ColecoVision, even though I really like the gameply and had lots of fun playing it. While it is a kind of port of another game (with some important differences, especially the added cooperative two-player levels) it's rather different from the typical ColecoVision game or arcade port.

However the limited edition of 50 games sold in a few days, soon then ebay prices went over 100$. I later released another version with different levels and music, so more people would have a chance to play it.

 

3 - The ColecoVision games library should increase, there is plenty of space for many many games. We can do RPG, Text Adventure, Realtime Strategy games to fill up the gaps. Even a simple Chess game is missing, what a shame! Instead of that, the reccent discussions are about redoing games already in the ColecoVision games library. I understand that some people want to get the arcade impression of these classic arcade games, and we have now the possibility to do games like this with over 32K of ROM without worrying about if it's gonna work or not. My feeling is that by redoing arcade games already in cartridges we are not making new games for this console, we are trying to fix deceptions of the past, which is sad. Redoing Mr.Do, Donkey Kong, etc... it's possible to do that, and good for you if it's what you want, but I personnaly will not consider these games as new games for this console. With all the numerous new games around, a "redo" is not what I'm looking for to continue my personnal ColecoVision games collection.

 

Well, I've been working on some original games, but unfortunately I don't have much time for ColecoVision programming now, so they are not yet complete. RPG and chess are among the projects I'd like to do in the future. And even though nothing really playable has come out of it yet, the work I did on Tunnels & Trolls has helped make my other game projects better.

 

Philipp

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Re: Ports vs. Originals

 

I agree on both sides...I believe that because we have seen what the ColecoVision can do with arcade ports we are hungry for more. And as another member said that we are familiar with the arcade ports and will likely buy them up.

 

Look at the original ColecoVision library and what was left out: Space Invaders, Pac-Man, Ms.Pac-Man, Galaga and Asteroids to name a few of the big guns. Then, in keeping with the tradition of "hidden gems," you have possibilities with ports of TazzMania, Magical Spot and Spiders.

 

One of the downsides to ports is if you have a MAME cabinet or two like I do then you find little reason to fire up the ColecoVision. I would still buy them but I'd rather fire up the arcade cabinet for the truer arcade experience. In that respect, there's the case for original home brews along with the fact you're playing something totally new.

 

If there are recommendations (between 26/52/7800 and ColecoVision) on original home brews that are really good, let me know. I don't mean to be insulting, but playing some originals in emulation I have not found any that "knock my socks off."

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If there are recommendations (between 26/52/7800 and ColecoVision) on original home brews that are really good, let me know. I don't mean to be insulting, but playing some originals in emulation I have not found any that "knock my socks off."
You said that you like the arcade games and find them more appealing than the ports, you even have the real thing at home (arcade at home), and then declare to not find any original game impressive... I'm not surprised or insulted. At least you did give it a try with emulators, right? So, that's fine.

 

Briefly, that only means you're not interrested in homebrew games in general, and I guess specially for systems you mentioned like the good old Atari and Coleco game systems... it's sad but it's true for you. "Arcade at home, or nothing" - good for you!

 

I think the only possible homebrew games that will impress you for these classic systems will be the ones you'll make by yourself and impress yourself of being able to do that. Not everyone want to make new games for these systems (need time and effort), or can do that (no programming skills at all), but it's possible if only you give it a try.

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Briefly, that only means you're not interrested in homebrew games in general, and I guess specially for systems you mentioned like the good old Atari and Coleco game systems... it's sad but it's true for you. "Arcade at home, or nothing" - good for you!

 

That's incorrect. While I prefer to play the original arcade games over the ports this does not reflect lack of interest in original home brew games.

 

If I had no interest in the original home brews I wouldn't bother playing them in emulation. I just haven't played the right ones I guess which is why I asked for recommendations on which ones are your favorites that I should consider checking out.

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Briefly, that only means you're not interrested in homebrew games in general, and I guess specially for systems you mentioned like the good old Atari and Coleco game systems... it's sad but it's true for you. "Arcade at home, or nothing" - good for you!

 

That's incorrect. While I prefer to play the original arcade games over the ports this does not reflect lack of interest in original home brew games.

 

If I had no interest in the original home brews I wouldn't bother playing them in emulation. I just haven't played the right ones I guess which is why I asked for recommendations on which ones are your favorites that I should consider checking out.

I see now.

 

The goal of an original game is not to impress but to be part of the game library, and the success of an original game cannot be predicted... and, in my opinion, it worths more than an arcade port success. Think about it, it need multiple skills (programmer, game designer, level designer, composer, artist, tester, producer, publisher, marketing, etc.) to do original games and have the guts to show them in the hope that they will be appreciated.

 

What we know about an original game? An original game cannot have a nostalgia effect, like a souvenir. An original game cannot be consider as a "big gun" because it's the first time released every time. An original game cannot be compared to a commercial game for many reasons including the lack of ressources and licensed characters. Because of all that, and more, how can anybody here may suggest you an original homebrew game for the ColecoVision that may impress you? I think it's impossible... but I will try anyway!

 

As for the Coleco homebrew scene, I will assume that you played mostly my Coleco games because they are all (except for two I think) available here and there in the internet. As for playing original games not made by me, you'll have to deal with the cartridge format, demos and beta versions. There is a few exceptions like Maze Maniac by Mathieu Boyer, Cosmo Fighter 2 by Marcel de Kogel, and that's pretty much it. All the other games in rom format I've found so far are copies of commercial games or in WIP versions like Wizard Siege by Steve Begin.

 

Maze Maniac homepage

http://www.mazemaniac.com/

 

And finally, if even my newest homebrew game titled GhostBlaster (you probably see it in the homebrew forums section), which also uses a GhostBusters nostalgia to improve its chance of success, doesn't impress you, I don't know what to say except try making one by yourself and be impress of what you can accomplish, it's a great experience.

Edited by newcoleco
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  • 2 weeks later...

Questions : Is there any horror game for the ColecoVision? Are you tempted to make one? What can be the ultimate horror game for the ColecoVision?

 

October 4, 2009. It's the full-moon today, I like this piece of rock orbiting our planet. In many myths and legends, this particular phase of the moon means magical powers, there is something different. And sometimes, there's an eclypse during this phase, making the moon looks redish and bloody. I admit it, I'm fascinated by this, and in October it seems to mean horror movies, and why not horror games too.

 

Strickly based on the commercial games, what are the ColecoVision games that can be classified as horror? I think there is none, except maybe Illusion which can be described as a weird dream, and Sewer Sam maybe. Dradula was a good idea, but was not released, same thing for Lord of the dungeon and more. And if we look at the Atari2600 games library, there are games based on horror movies and scary general things like haunted house.

 

With the homebrew scene, I'm happy to be able to play some horror games now for the ColecoVision. Just thinking of Jeepers Creepers and my adrenaline level is rising.

 

During the last years, we got invitations to make classic horror games and make them signed by actors. I don't know how the actors in the movie GhostBusters will react if anyone ask them to sign ColecoVision Ghostblaster cartridges... maybe by a lawsuit.

 

Strickly based on technical issues, I guess a game like Resident Evil will need a megacart for cutscenes. Probably an isometric view can be done for the game itself, like some other games based on this strategy to simulate a 3D view without being one.

 

Anyway, I've done at least 2 horror games for the ColecoVision, I think I'll try another genre.

Edited by newcoleco
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My Ghost'n Zombie can be considered as an Horror game, i think. no?

Ghost'n Zombie is a game based on creatures we can see in horror movies, and like these movies it's a fight between good and evil. So, yes it can be considered as an horror game, of course.

 

My problem is Pacman... there are all the elements for an horror movie without being an horror game : there is ghosts chasing you in a maze... it's stressful, but is it an horror game? I don't think so.

 

After thinking about it, I guess ColecoVision has a commercial horror videogame : Space Fury. This big green head space commander ordering to kill you, that's scary!

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Smurf , rescue to gargamel castle could be also. There is big spider, bats, skulls... It is very frightening :D

 

In a certain way, Montuzema Revenge too , and also Donkey Kong... I had always considered the original King Kong movie as an Horror one.

but may be it is more a 'fantastic' one.

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  • 2 weeks later...

During my 10 years of Coleco programming, I did get a bunch of messages that pissed me off, including those accusing me to keep things for my own benefits. I personnaly think that I'm the one who share the most of his work and for free but it doesn't seem to matter or being enough. So maybe it's the confusion between Coleco Industries and my nickname newcoleco, but I don't think so.

 

Even if I release year after year even more source codes, tools and rom files, I'm still getting bad comments. Do I have dedicated haters that simply want to piss me off ? Or this kind of shit happends to you too? Or is there really some people out there who think of a conspiracy ?

 

I don't know if it's the same for you but I need to be in a good mood to program stuff like new Coleco games and tools. If I have no fun, I tend to not program at all, and put these projects aside until I find again a more appropriate moment... but most of the time it's hard to go back into an old listing, even if there's comments here and there. It's the case for my new tools which I've put aside because the new compiler was unable to compile the source code and the project of renaming Bejeweled I keep thinking of but don't make progress on it.

 

Year 2010, Adamcon will be in Montreal, Canada, during the same week-end of my birthday, June 18. For this occasion, I would like to release my secret project I'm talking and not talking about during months. But in the case of not making the game in time, I would like to also release during summer next year all my publishable Coleco stuff in a single multicart, if someone can help me for the pcb part of course. I've calculated about 30 projects of 32K each, which need an eprom chip of 1 Megabyte.

Edited by newcoleco
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I collect original games and I collect homebrews

I will applaud ANY programmer on ANY console, as I cant do anything like that

but at the end I am a collector-player

so I will only keep the games that I like to play

and until now I didnt find a lot of original new games fun to play

and I express the following opinion somewhere else

in the atari 2600 homebrew pool

the new games (well some of them) are way better than the original ones

for the Colecovision

I dont think that the new guys achieve better than the good old time

I could be wrong

but it is my point of view as a "customer", player

I like some of the new games but a lot less than the new 2600 homebrews

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You will continue to always get a percentage of bad comments, do not concern yourself, do not try to figure it out and do not try to make sense of it, THEY ARE ASSHOLES, the world is full of people who offer nothing, ask for everything, bitch and complain, sadly that is just a fact of life. All that matters is you know what you are doing and why you are doing it, you owe nobody any explanation. Do what you enjoy and there are many that will appreciate your work and efforts, everyone one else can go to hell.

 

During my 10 years of Coleco programming, I did get a bunch of messages that pissed me off, including those accusing me to keep things for my own benefits. I personnaly think that I'm the one who share the most of his work and for free but it doesn't seem to matter or being enough. So maybe it's the confusion between Coleco Industries and my nickname newcoleco, but I don't think so.

 

Even if I release year after year even more source codes, tools and rom files, I'm still getting bad comments. Do I have dedicated haters that simply want to piss me off ? Or this kind of shit happends to you too? Or is there really some people out there who think of a conspiracy ?

 

I don't know if it's the same for you but I need to be in a good mood to program stuff like new Coleco games and tools. If I have no fun, I tend to not program at all, and put these projects aside until I find again a more appropriate moment... but most of the time it's hard to go back into an old listing, even if there's comments here and there. It's the case for my new tools which I've put aside because the new compiler was unable to compile the source code and the project of renaming Bejeweled I keep thinking of but don't make progress on it.

 

Year 2010, Adamcon will be in Montreal, Canada, during the same week-end of my birthday, June 18. For this occasion, I would like to release my secret project I'm talking and not talking about during months. But in the case of not making the game in time, I would like to also release during summer next year all my publishable Coleco stuff in a single multicart, if someone can help me for the pcb part of course. I've calculated about 30 projects of 32K each, which need an eprom chip of 1 Megabyte.

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Year 2010, Adamcon will be in Montreal, Canada, during the same week-end of my birthday, June 18.

Ah, so Guy has made progress with the hotel reservations? I keep forgetting to drop by the Adamcon chatroom on Wednesday nights. Truth be told, I don't have a lot of time to spend on socializing in chatrooms these days...

 

For this occasion, I would like to release my secret project I'm talking and not talking about during months. But in the case of not making the game in time, I would like to also release during summer next year all my publishable Coleco stuff in a single multicart, if someone can help me for the pcb part of course. I've calculated about 30 projects of 32K each, which need an eprom chip of 1 Megabyte.

Opcode's MegaCart supports up to 1 meg, but with its fixed 16K bank, it may not be very useful to you, unless you were to significantly restructure your source code.

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