Sneak Peak - Amiga Atari Design...

[oky2000]

not to be confused with the MigST

 

lol worst of both worlds, Amiga 500 looks and no Amiga internals. Whatever Jack got wrong the original ST (and Mega too but not the STF) were very elegant and stylish lookers, in my opinion the best looking computer keyboard form factor ever sold. The Amiga 500 looked like someone had melted a Commodore 128 case for inspiration

[Retro Rogue]

Wasn't the Vic20 the first computer to sell over 1 million units?

 

It's usually quoted as 600,000 to a million in newspapers of the time, never seen an official count through.

 

Hmm, judging by that diagram though, it looks like they were planning on using a NS16032 (later renamed 32016), not that that couldn't have changed of course. (as I recall a 320xx was considered for the Atari ST design too)

 

That's just on that day so to speak, Gump was just a snapshot of the evolution at that moment. 68000 was what became used for most of the projects.

 

 

That sound chip was particularly economical with use for I/O functionality.

Perhaps the AMY team shouldn't have been among those laid off with the initial cutbacks after Tramiel's purchase and formation of Atari Corp. (from what I understand, Jack's own engineers had a hell of a time working with it, so keeping the original team could have really been worth it)

 

They weren't laid off. A lot of the research people (including Alan Kay) left for greener pastures and didn't want to be hired at Atari Corp.

[kool kitty89]

Wasn't the Vic20 the first computer to sell over 1 million units?

 

It's usually quoted as 600,000 to a million in newspapers of the time, never seen an official count through.

 

Yeah, there seems to be a number of webpages listing th e1 million+ figure, but not a whole lot of detail. (wikipedia even listes 2.5 million had sold by the 1985 discontinuation, but provides no source)

 

Hmm, judging by that diagram though, it looks like they were planning on using a NS16032 (later renamed 32016), not that that couldn't have changed of course. (as I recall a 320xx was considered for the Atari ST design too)

 

That's just on that day so to speak, Gump was just a snapshot of the evolution at that moment. 68000 was what became used for most of the projects.

 

Yeah, can't wait for that article from Curt for more details.

 

 

That sound chip was particularly economical with use for I/O functionality.

Perhaps the AMY team shouldn't have been among those laid off with the initial cutbacks after Tramiel's purchase and formation of Atari Corp. (from what I understand, Jack's own engineers had a hell of a time working with it, so keeping the original team could have really been worth it)

 

They weren't laid off. A lot of the research people (including Alan Kay) left for greener pastures and didn't want to be hired at Atari Corp.

 

Ah, thanks for clearing that up, so Jack didn't really have any say in the matter.

 

 

 

Also, it's probably something that will be in the upcoming article, but in terms of projects like Sierra, Gaza, etx, were those shelved before Morgan replaced Kassar, or after? (and were any reexamined under Morgan?)

[Retro Rogue]

Yeah, can't wait for that article from Curt for more details.

 

It's been delayed because we've been uncovering more and more over the last few weeks. And it's a full section update to his site, not an article per se. Though we have been knocking around the idea of submitting an article somewhere on the '84 transition period in general.

 

 

 

Ah, thanks for clearing that up, so Jack didn't really have any say in the matter.

 

In some cases. In others he had Leonard do reviews and call them in the room to tell they were requested to be rehired and another they weren't. It was a bit like American Idol's Hollywood week decisions. And as we discovered, they didn't really "fire" people from Atari, it was more of an issue "who is going to be hired at this new company?"

 

 

Also, it's probably something that will be in the upcoming article, but in terms of projects like Sierra, Gaza, etx, were those shelved before Morgan replaced Kassar, or after? (and were any reexamined under Morgan?)

 

 

After. Some were ongoing up until the Tramiel takeover as well. Can't really present any more info until after our moratorium.

Edited November 1, 2009 by wgungfu

[kool kitty89]

Cool, thanks for the info, I'll be looking foreward to that update then.

[atarian63]

Wow, Curt, this is awesome. So the article is going up on atarimuseum?

 

 

Atari was offered the apple and declined as they has thier own in dev. Commodore 64 did not arrive until 82.Not sure anyone paid any attention to VIC and never heard of CBM/PET here in the US back at that time. Atari was 78/89. Atari ended up competing with Apple,personally I thing the Atari was a heck of alot better machine.

 

Wasn't the Vic20 the first computer to sell over 1 million units?

 

Man, I had no idea they used Lisas either. That's very interesting as well. Makes sense that a 68K system would be useful for developing on another 68K system. I wonder if any Atari engineers / R&D people continued to use Macs or Lisas after the Atari ST came out.

 

Hmm, judging by that diagram though, it looks like they were planning on using a NS16032 (later renamed 32016), not that that couldn't have changed of course. (as I recall a 320xx was considered for the Atari ST design too)

 

AMY had originally been intended by the Tramiels for use in the "RBP" (Rock Bottom Price - aka Atari ST) but it still needed some finalized work and with such an aggressive schedule to complete the ST the AMY was moved to the 65XEM instead while the ST used an off the shelf audio chip.

 

That sound chip was particularly economical with use for I/O functionality.

Perhaps the AMY team shouldn't have been among those laid off with the initial cutbacks after Tramiel's purchase and formation of Atari Corp. (from what I understand, Jack's own engineers had a hell of a time working with it, so keeping the original team could have really been worth it)

 

In any case, it seems like the ST design could have at least included a low-cost FM synthesis chip (with them already buying the YM2149s from Yamaha), particularly something as cut-down as the very low-budget YM2413.

Yes vic somehow sold 1mill units but I dont think that is US sales and it really ended up being mostly doorstops. People bought them abecause they were cheap and like to say they had a "oooh computer" I remeber a buddy bought one and made a big deal out of having one,however like many had no idea what to do with one or what it was for. Would not have mattered as there was nowhere to buy software.

[kool kitty89]

Yes vic somehow sold 1mill units but I dont think that is US sales and it really ended up being mostly doorstops. People bought them abecause they were cheap and like to say they had a "oooh computer" I remeber a buddy bought one and made a big deal out of having one,however like many had no idea what to do with one or what it was for. Would not have mattered as there was nowhere to buy software.

 

Not sure how the VIC did in UK/europe either, that may have been a more significant market. (especially later in its life)

 

I was looking at this http://www.jeremyreimer.com/total_share.html and it seems like TRS-80s were the most popular up to 1982. (with Atari pretty much catching up that year and jumping ahead the next, but of course the C64 and PC/clones jumped up big time then) TRS-80s are what we had (or my dad rather as that was before I was born), a model I, the rather expensive model II (for buisness) and a model III a little later I think. (only still have the Model 2)

[atarian63]

Yes vic somehow sold 1mill units but I dont think that is US sales and it really ended up being mostly doorstops. People bought them abecause they were cheap and like to say they had a "oooh computer" I remeber a buddy bought one and made a big deal out of having one,however like many had no idea what to do with one or what it was for. Would not have mattered as there was nowhere to buy software.

 

Not sure how the VIC did in UK/europe either, that may have been a more significant market. (especially later in its life)

 

I was looking at this http://www.jeremyreimer.com/total_share.html and it seems like TRS-80s were the most popular up to 1982. (with Atari pretty much catching up that year and jumping ahead the next, but of course the C64 and PC/clones jumped up big time then) TRS-80s are what we had (or my dad rather as that was before I was born), a model I, the rather expensive model II (for buisness) and a model III a little later I think. (only still have the Model 2)

I did know several people with TRS-80 models, also some Co Co's later. Also some guys at the store had TI-99 machines. Kind of funny how thing were in the early days. So many different ways to get into a 1st computer. Radio Shack, general retail, Discounters like Service Merchandise. Mail order. I do remember now back in those days before pc's were much of anything, the main customer question was "what to buy". They needed someone to tell them they were making a good choice. Then along came main stream advertising and it all changed.

[UNIXcoffee928]

It may be that the VIC-20 & CoCo sold lots of units, but the thing is... VIC-20s were ultralame. The people that had VIC-20s & CoCos (& TI 99/4As & Coleco ADAMs, for that matter) were viciously made fun of. So, while the Vic-20 would have made a GREAT doorstop, or paperweight, it would have been an unlikely use, because they were an embarrassment to their owners.

 

Commodore should have kept going from where they left off with the SuperPet. If they had integrated the C64/C128s as modes in the SuperPet, they would have had a very cool machine.

 

CoCos would have been a much better computing platform if they had OS-9 by default, (...well, that & if they hadn't been built in ugly boxes with bad keyboards, sold by incompetent AV-cart-geeks at Radio Shack).

 

Radio Shack would have been a more respected platform if they had evolved their systems from the TRS-80 Model II (which were far $uperior to the Model III & Model 4). The III & 4 were cooler than the CoCo, though. If they had made the CoCo in a III or 4 casing, with a color display, & OS-9 it would have been a good box.

 

I was there, during that whole time period of 1979-1984, I was on the BBSs, read the magazines, was in the social circles... the average hacker mocked VIC-20s, TI 99/4a systems, & CoCos (pretty much in that order, too... ADAM owners were just laughed off, as a matter of standard operating procedure). Not just the systems, but the owners & users of such systems, that would have been foolhardy enough to spend good money on them. Mean, & not PC? Well, get used to it, that WAS the way of the world, back in the day, undeniably.

 

I understand that the above systems were made to be as economical as was possible. The thing is, it really showed, and they were regarded as cheap pieces of junk.

 

& I understand that my above system design evolution paths would have cost at least twice as much, in many cases. The thing is, those systems would have had bigger user-bases, and a better legacy, if their respective companies had not tried to cut costs, but, instead, used the tech that they had, and made BETTER & more desirable systems.

 

...BUT THEY DIDN'T. So those systems STILL suck.

 

lol.

 

= )

[mos6507]

best looking computer keyboard form factor ever sold.

 

Didn't feel too well, though. Those rubber keycaps were kind of ahead of their time in the sense that now all keyboards suck. It's just that people don't know any better.

[mos6507]

Interestingly, they originally wanted an open architecture card system ala the Apple II, but Ray wouldn't allow it. In fact he had a grand vision for a consumer driven "appliance computer" market complete with color coordinated computers ala what Jobs did with the iMac almost 20 years later.

 

Ray was ridiculed for this in Stella at 20. The implication was that Ray was more interested in style than substance.

[kool kitty89]

best looking computer keyboard form factor ever sold.

 

Didn't feel too well, though. Those rubber keycaps were kind of ahead of their time in the sense that now all keyboards suck. It's just that people don't know any better.

 

Chicklet keys with a keyboard laid on top basicly, though I honestly don't dislike the "mushy" feel, my little brother prefers to use an older mechanical switch keyboard with his PC. (with that distinctive clicky feel and "sproingy" sound) I think that uses the "buckling spring" mechanism. (of course with that you get even more tictile and aural response than you otherwise would with a mechanical switch keyboard, although buckling spring mechanisms do tend to use therubber dome switches below the key, so the fundemental mechanism is still similar)

Edited November 2, 2009 by kool kitty89

[kool kitty89]

It may be that the VIC-20 & CoCo sold lots of units, but the thing is... VIC-20s were ultralame. The people that had VIC-20s & CoCos (& TI 99/4As & Coleco ADAMs, for that matter) were viciously made fun of. So, while the Vic-20 would have made a GREAT doorstop, or paperweight, it would have been an unlikely use, because they were an embarrassment to their owners.

 

Do you know if oppinions were any different in Europe in this regard?

 

Kind of ironic that the CoCo got that kind of reputation and was one of the few Tandy-RadioShack products to have a more appealing nickname. (opposed to others like the Trash 80 and Dump printer)

 

Commodore should have kept going from where they left off with the SuperPet. If they had integrated the C64/C128s as modes in the SuperPet, they would have had a very cool machine.

Despite that the VIC was selling better if nothing else. (again, I'm not sureif it had a different impact in Europe/UK)

 

Radio Shack would have been a more respected platform if they had evolved their systems from the TRS-80 Model II (which were far $uperior to the Model III & Model 4). The III & 4 were cooler than the CoCo, though. If they had made the CoCo in a III or 4 casing, with a color display, & OS-9 it would have been a good box.

 

The CoCo did use a completely different CPU though, so there wouldn't be native compatibility with previous TRS-80 models. Maybe they could have included the New CPU and kept a Z80 in there, like with the Model 16 -either with the 16's 68k or the 6809 as in the CoCo, or keep just he Z80 -the faster one as in the Model II- but add color graphics sound capabilities -plenty of Z80 based computers did well for a good while longer -this latter option is probably the most pratical and cost effective. In partcular, going with the latter model, they could have focused on keeping it a useful buisness machine like the Model II and avoided the pitfalls of the CoCo's capabilities as a home computer.

 

Or, keep 2 separate lines going, with the buisness oriented Model II and followons (like the Model 16), and for the lower end/home computer market, rather than the CoCo, release the Model III instead with added color and sound capabilities. (and still keep Model I compatibility)

They could keep the CPU the same as the model 3, with compatible monochrome mode and add soem basic color and sound hardware, maybe off the shelf (or mix of off the shelf and custom), and don't make the same mistakes with CoCo's rather weak (CPU driven) DAC and bitmap display, but an actual (basic) sound chip and graphics with character modes and hardware sprites. (could go with a PSG chip, like one of the General Instruments AY-38910 series, or SN76489, maybe even go with the TMS9918A VDP vor video -or derivative for video, like several others did -MSX, ColecoVision, etc -and of course the TI-99/4)

Having to be compatible with the Model I would have added to cost over other sysems using only the TMS VDP, but there's the existing TRS-80 base to build on.

 

I was there, during that whole time period of 1979-1984, I was on the BBSs, read the magazines, was in the social circles... the average hacker mocked VIC-20s, TI 99/4a systems, & CoCos (pretty much in that order, too... ADAM owners were just laughed off, as a matter of standard operating procedure). Not just the systems, but the owners & users of such systems, that would have been foolhardy enough to spend good money on them. Mean, & not PC? Well, get used to it, that WAS the way of the world, back in the day, undeniably.

 

Yeah but the Adam bombed in terms of sales, and the CoCo wasn't especially successful, but how did the VIC manage to be successful in spte of such critisism? (just because it was so cheap and could play games?)

Edited November 2, 2009 by kool kitty89

[atarian63]

It may be that the VIC-20 & CoCo sold lots of units, but the thing is... VIC-20s were ultralame. The people that had VIC-20s & CoCos (& TI 99/4As & Coleco ADAMs, for that matter) were viciously made fun of. So, while the Vic-20 would have made a GREAT doorstop, or paperweight, it would have been an unlikely use, because they were an embarrassment to their owners.

 

Do you know if oppinions were any different in Europe in this regard?

 

Kind of ironic that the CoCo got that kind of reputation and was one of the few Tandy-RadioShack products to have a more appealing nickname. (opposed to others like the Trash 80 and Dump printer)

 

Commodore should have kept going from where they left off with the SuperPet. If they had integrated the C64/C128s as modes in the SuperPet, they would have had a very cool machine.

Despite that the VIC was selling better if nothing else. (again, I'm not sureif it had a different impact in Europe/UK)

 

Radio Shack would have been a more respected platform if they had evolved their systems from the TRS-80 Model II (which were far $uperior to the Model III & Model 4). The III & 4 were cooler than the CoCo, though. If they had made the CoCo in a III or 4 casing, with a color display, & OS-9 it would have been a good box.

 

The CoCo did use a completely different CPU though, so there wouldn't be native compatibility with previous TRS-80 models. Maybe they could have included the New CPU and kept a Z80 in there, like with the Model 16 -either with the 16's 68k or the 6809 as in the CoCo, or keep just he Z80 -the faster one as in the Model 2- but add color graphics sound capabilities -plenty of Z80 based computers did well for a good while longer -this latter option is probably the most pratical and cost effective. In partcular, going with the latter model, they could have focused on keeping it a useful buisness machine like the Model II and avoided th epitfalls of the CoCo's capabilities as a home computer. (using graphics and sound harware that didn't have to be entirely driven by the CPU -so not just a bare DAC and bitmap display, something with character display modes and hardware sprites, and maybe a simple, off the shelf PSG chip, like one of the General Instruments AY-38910 series, or SN76489) That is if you wanted to be able to appeal to th ehome computer market with some game capabilities. (otherwise they could have gone separate routes with advancing on the Model 2 for more serious capacities and the Model I with sound and color followon instead of the more modestly upgraded III/IV, that or add color capabilites to both, and keep the Model I/III/IV etc as the lower end machines and the Model II etc for the higher end stuff)

 

I was there, during that whole time period of 1979-1984, I was on the BBSs, read the magazines, was in the social circles... the average hacker mocked VIC-20s, TI 99/4a systems, & CoCos (pretty much in that order, too... ADAM owners were just laughed off, as a matter of standard operating procedure). Not just the systems, but the owners & users of such systems, that would have been foolhardy enough to spend good money on them. Mean, & not PC? Well, get used to it, that WAS the way of the world, back in the day, undeniably.

 

Yeah but the Adam bombed in terms of sales, and the CoCo wasn't especially successful, but how did the VIC manage to be successful in spte of such critisism? (just because it was so cheap and could play games?)

These was a good deal of interest in the ADAM however when Adam was finally released,after long delays the interest was gone and what units we did get which sold,were quickly returned with a myriad of problems. It might have done much better without such long delays and without that crappy tape drive.Having the power supply in the printer wasnt such a good Idea either. Kind of like Amstrad Pc;s with the power supply for the pc built into the monitor! (ok it worked for I mac but was bad for pc's when ega was coming out) Another would have,could have,should have. The days of slow release and vaporware. It the case of the Adam at least they released the machine, too bad it was not ready ( no slam of the ADAM intended). Just the way things were back then.

[UNIXcoffee928]

Yeah but the Adam bombed in terms of sales, and the CoCo wasn't especially successful, but how did the VIC manage to be successful in spite of such criticism? (just because it was so cheap and could play games?)

 

The VIC was cheap, & there were PETs in schools. Parents bought the VIC for their kids because it was a trivial investment, so that their kids might not grow up "Computer Illiterate". Sold units, but the machine was so bad that VERY FEW kids used it for anything, other than a stepping-stone to purchasing a C64, or going on to a bright future in Computer Illiteracy. lol. All of the 30-45 year olds that make up the so-called "Digital Divide", nowadays, were in all probability, VIC users. LOL!

 

As far as the general locale, I'm talking about the scene in the USA. Fone calls were expensive (particularly out of the country) back then, and you needed to dial out to connect to remote BBS systems. To the NYC, Boston, & CA scenes, what I mentioned above was a synopsis of the way things were. Keep in mind that those places are where everything sprung from, and where everything was happenin'. The rest of the states tend to follow cultural cues from those places to some degree.

 

As far as the ADAM, too little too late definitely applies. If it had been equipped with a disk drive, rather than the gawd-awful "High-Speed Tape Drive" it would have had a much different legacy.

 

The CoCo name came from the users. The official name was the TRS-80 Color Computer. TRS-80s really became known as TRASH-80s because of the CoCo. They were favorite targets of online abuse, since their BBS software was often run in BASIC... hahahaha! You could usually tell a CoCo BBS straight away, because people would go out of their way to exploit them to do all kinds of stupid stuff. Allegedly, of course. lol.

 

= )

[Curt Vendel]

That makes me cringe on many levels!!!

 

I was VERY VERY disappointed that the Trameils dropped the sexy XL styling and went with Ira Valensky's dull grey designs with the ergonomical nightmarish 45 degree angled buttons. Its weird, its like an episode of "Freaky Friday" -- Commodore had such butt ugly machines and Atari had the sexy XL's --- then Commodore winds up with the Amiga (aka 16bit Atari's) and Atari winds up with Commodore management - the Amiga 1000, Commodore 64C and C128 were really slick, cool looking machines and the Atari XE and ST are ugly grey monstrousities....

 

1984 was like the reversal of the two arch nemesis company employee's, culture and styling....

 

 

 

Curt

 

not to be confused with the MigST

[+Allan]

What was the car that had the Atari XEs styling and even had an XE model? Does anybody remember? A Nissan or something?

 

Allan

[MEtalGuy66]

Maybe this is a unique oppinion, but I think the ST line was pretty kewl looking.. The case styling was about the best thing the platform had going for it.. Yeah the keyboards suck when compared to XL/800 keyboards, but not nearly as bad as the XE keyboard..

 

I dont agree with whoever it was that said the A500 looks like a melted C=128.. I think the A500 is one of the kewlest cases commodore ever made.. The A2000 looks too much like an XT clone and the A4000 looks like a late 80s AT clone.... The A3000 and A1000 are pretty kewl looking (kinda "sparcstationish") cases, but they dont hold a candle to the kewlness of the STE/TT cases.. The A1200 is too "square" for a wedge-stlye case.. Reminds me too much of an Apple IIc or Laser-128..

 

I think ATARI definitely had the better case styling.. There was no way in hell you would mistake an ATARI ST/TT/FALCON for a PC... And of all the Amiga cases, I think the A500 case comes closest to rivaling ATARI's styling..

 

Now as far as the XE vs XL goes... Yeah, I like the XE case LOOKS.. But the looks dont make up for the fact that the XL cases were sturdier, and the keyboards were WAY better on the XL series.. especially the 1200XL..

 

Two of my three 130XE motherboards live in 1200XL cases..

The third one would too, if I hadnt invested so much effort in the addition of ST-style F1-F4 keys..

Edited November 3, 2009 by MEtalGuy66

[+Philsan]

I agree with Ken.

I don't think it's the only fan of XE/ST design.

Design appreciation is very subjective.

You can like or dislike the 3 Atari designs (by Kevin McKinsey, Regan Cheng and Ira Valensky) but I think Curt's sentence "Atari XE and ST are ugly grey monstrousities..." is wrong, in particular from an historical objective point of view.

[Warriorisabouttodie]

I really love the industrial look of the XL series, especially the 1200xl. Best looking classic computer, but I am biased since I wanted one so bad! I don't think the Amiga (despite being an awesome computer on the inside) was on the same cosmetic level as the XL's. The only Amiga I thought looked cool was the A3000 which I lusted after, but my feelings were perhaps clouded by what it could do.

 

I think the complaints about the XE/ST design is easy to make nowadays. They have a very 80's look that looks dated now compared to the XL's, the 400/800 series reminds me of Star Wars and roller skating, but that is because they belong in the 70's. I guess you need to put on some old school heavy metal and have yourself a new coke to wash down the look of the 130XE properly.

 

back to the original topic. I was just on Atari Museum and couldn't find the Amiga-Atari design this thread was advertising. Has it been posted yet? I might of been looking in the wrong place. Please post a direct link if possible!

 

 

 

Thanks!!

[desiv]

... Sold units, but the machine was so bad that VERY FEW kids used it for anything, other than a stepping-stone to purchasing a C64, or going on to a bright future in Computer Illiteracy. lol. All of the 30-45 year olds that make up the so-called "Digital Divide", nowadays, were in all probability, VIC users. LOL!

 

 

As a working tech, I can tell you that there are many people I work with who had a Vic-20 as their first computer.

Yes, they considered it a stepping stone, but not useless and a doorstop.

There are also many people who had Atari's and Apple's and one guy who had an Adam (which I now own thanx to him!).

 

Personally, I find the unholy mix and swapping of Atari/Commodore people and technology incredibly interesting.

Now I understand what people find interesting in soap operas... :-)

 

desiv

[TwiliteZoner]

... Sold units, but the machine was so bad that VERY FEW kids used it for anything, other than a stepping-stone to purchasing a C64, or going on to a bright future in Computer Illiteracy. lol. All of the 30-45 year olds that make up the so-called "Digital Divide", nowadays, were in all probability, VIC users. LOL!

 

 

As a working tech, I can tell you that there are many people I work with who had a Vic-20 as their first computer.

Yes, they considered it a stepping stone, but not useless and a doorstop.

There are also many people who had Atari's and Apple's and one guy who had an Adam (which I now own thanx to him!).

 

Personally, I find the unholy mix and swapping of Atari/Commodore people and technology incredibly interesting.

Now I understand what people find interesting in soap operas... :-)

 

desiv

 

Atari and Commodore really shared the same brain at times. Or lack there of.

 

How many different computer companies were in existence in the 70s/80s? It's mind boggling to think of the sheer scope of bad management that caused each of those companies to go under.

Edited November 3, 2009 by TwiliteZoner

[TMR]

It may be that the VIC-20 & CoCo sold lots of units, but the thing is... VIC-20s were ultralame. The people that had VIC-20s & CoCos (& TI 99/4As & Coleco ADAMs, for that matter) were viciously made fun of. So, while the Vic-20 would have made a GREAT doorstop, or paperweight, it would have been an unlikely use, because they were an embarrassment to their owners.

 

Do you know if oppinions were any different in Europe in this regard?

 

Well, i can't speak for all of Europe but from my recollection the VIC and CoCo (disguised as the Welsh-built Dragon 32 and 64) made an impression on the UK market and only the VIC had any longevity or software support; a lot of our software houses at the time were founded on VIC 20 games, early startups like Llamasoft, Interceptor, Rabbit, Anirog and even Software Projects and Ultimate who were both best known for their Spectrum games knocked out Perils of Willy and Jetpac respectively for it. There was also quite a bit of VIC support from budget bunnies Mastertronic straight out of the gate, mostly rebadged Mr. Chip games to start with but they soon found their feet.

 

Dragon users were the butt of quite a few jokes... although now i think about it, despite high street retailers such as Boots (a national chain of chemists who bundled the computers and games into their photographic departments - i learnt to program on the machines at the local branch!) carried at least the Dragon 32 i've never met anybody who owned one!

[carmel_andrews]

Thats a weird looking XE there (with the atari label missing from it)

[frogstar_robot]

The VIC was cheap, & there were PETs in schools. Parents bought the VIC for their kids because it was a trivial investment, so that their kids might not grow up "Computer Illiterate". Sold units, but the machine was so bad that VERY FEW kids used it for anything, other than a stepping-stone to purchasing a C64, or going on to a bright future in Computer Illiteracy. lol. All of the 30-45 year olds that make up the so-called "Digital Divide", nowadays, were in all probability, VIC users. LOL!

 

 

Linus Torvald's first machine was a Vic-20. He seems fairly computer literate to me.