Prince of Persia

[PeteD]

Ok, I know it's only a mockup and is really just for fun (I'm only reaaaaly doing the sprite code for fun atm) but here are a few problems with it...

 

Firstly, someone would have to redraw 220 frames of sprite

 

Player and missile usage as you have it would never work. Missiles are always the same colour as their players so to get 4 pink or even 3 pink missiles you'll also have 3 or 4 pink players.

 

2 missiles won't be enough to even draw skin in. The arm on Kid on that pic is 12 pixels wide (that's hires pixels) so 6 clocks, you've only got 4 clocks in 2 missiles and that's no doubt not the widest area of pink on any of the sprites.

 

I'm not saying you've done a bad thing, the more ideas the better before anyone really digs into the coding just pointing out some mistakes in your logic so you can rethink it if you want.

 

Personally I think keep the graphics 4 colours per sprite. If you make the background colour the predominant sprite colour (say white or light grey) you can just poke holes through any foreground data so it saves more complex spriting. The swords would be done the same way. Then use the 4 PMGs in various combinations to draw in the skin and cloth (guard's cape) colours. Even that needs some good thought eg do you waste a player just for Kid's hair?

 

I've wondered myself about if you fight 2 guards or not because that could be a problem on the C64 as well (number of hardware sprites per line). Definitely something to check asap.

 

 

Pete

[Heaven/TQA]

just for the records...

 

missles can have a different color by setting the "5th player" bit.... just in case you are not aware of it....

[PeteD]

just for the records...

 

missles can have a different color by setting the "5th player" bit.... just in case you are not aware of it....

 

Yes, but then they become PF3 colour? Which you already have in PF3, kind of pointless then

 

 

Pete

[Rybags]

Not totally pointless... it means you can avoid the dreaded attribute clash, where otherwise the presence of PF2 and PF3 in a character will change one or the other.

 

Nice pic... looks like it's geared to bitmap mode though... personally I'd go character mode for the extra colour, even if it only ends up being used for something minor like the flame or potion.

 

Really though - to properly work out what objects use which assets so far as PMGs and Playfield goes, a nice big picture with all the possible animations side by side would help.

[PeteD]

Ok, when I say pointless I mean in this case where we're talking about trying to add colours to the sprites in PoP....

 

 

Pete

[José Pereira]

Hello, I'm back again...

 

MrFish I don't know if you seen my screen.

I used your picture (only changed the colours):

 

I, simply use the PFs like this:

PF0-White

PF1-Gray

PF3-Dark Gray

Backgr.- Darkest Gray.

 

PF2-Different colours (Torches,Bottles,windows on other Levels,etc,...)

I've scroll all the Maps and this and you never have Torches and Bottles on the same Line.

Another thing, in the screen construct Bottles are always on the same horizontal lines, so are torches, windows,the horizontal Blue Line onm the Backward wall...

If you create a DLI to change the different PF2 colours you only do it once (master screen). In all the screen this Objects colours will be on the same lines.

 

 

With this you'll get PF0 for some clothes and the Sword. You'll have now the 4Players+5th Player (or 4PMs.) for your man.

The colours I choose are only a matter of taste, but you'll get the idea.

 

 

Hope this is usefull...

 

 

Greetings,

José Pereira

[STE'86]

more crap

 

 

Steve

[+MrFish]

Firstly, someone would have to redraw 220 frames of sprite

Ah, yes, a monumental task to say the least. It's no simple thing to piece together even a small animation sequence using pm/playfield graphics in combination. So, this would definitely take some good planning and perseverance to accomplish. An animation utility would most likely be needed in order to accomplish it in a reasonable amount of time. G2F does have the ability to convert bmp's into pm's, although I haven't played around with it enough to know if it's flexible enough to accomplish what's needed here. I'll take a closer look at it. Someone here may already know the answer to this question.

 

 

Player and missile usage as you have it would never work. Missiles are always the same colour as their players so to get 4 pink or even 3 pink missiles you'll also have 3 or 4 pink players.

Correct Pete! Doh! I forgot about that restriction in my excitement to piece together the pm's after coming up with a decent looking playfield solution. Thanks for the correction. We just have to shuffle things around a little bit. Not really that much to change.

 

Prince

-------

2 skin colored players, 1 skin colored missile

 

Guard

-------

1 player + 1 missile for clothing, 1 missile for skin (color comes from second player that Prince uses)

 

 

Bitmapped mode

--------------------

1 player and 1 missile for the torches and health potions. Some compromise in the case where two torches are side-by-side would be necessary here. Several choices:

 

1. Use 2 pixels for one of the torches, either single or double-width.

2. Have only a single torch per screen, or 2 torches (split with dli) possible in the case of a screen like the one I posted.

 

Character mode

-------------------

1 player and missile for enhancing guard or torches.

 

 

Personally I think keep the graphics 4 colours per sprite. If you make the background colour the predominant sprite colour (say white or light grey) you can just poke holes through any foreground data so it saves more complex spriting. The swords would be done the same way. Then use the 4 PMGs in various combinations to draw in the skin and cloth (guard's cape) colours. Even that needs some good thought eg do you waste a player just for Kid's hair?

I'll have to give that some thought...

 

 

I've wondered myself about if you fight 2 guards or not because that could be a problem on the C64 as well (number of hardware sprites per line). Definitely something to check asap.

I played through the whole game several times, back in the day, and I'm fairly certain it happens at least once. It could have just been the version that I played too. I was playing the Macintosh version which, btw, my graphics are based upon.

 

 

Really though - to properly work out what objects use which assets so far as PMGs and Playfield goes, a nice big picture with all the possible animations side by side would help.

You're right. Here is the sprite sheet that I've been working from, including a quick and dirty scaled version:

 

Original:

---------

 

Scaled:

--------

 

BTW, dimensions of the screen for the Macintosh version are the same as the DOS version. I don't know how closely the sprites parallel, but at least they follow the scaling of the screen, which is the same for both.

[mrsid]

Here are a bunch of screenshots from the different versions of the game.

http://www.hardcoregaming101.net/princeofpersia/princeofpersia.htm

 

There are a few lower-res console versions that have been derived from the 640x480 Mac version,

i.e. the ones where the kid has a turban.

[Rybags]

The graphics would be easiest to convert if they were done in a vertical strip, left justified, e.g. something like a 50x3000 pixel BMP.

Then a simple BASIC program could just pick the pixels out and create definitions.

 

The other problem... even though we have all the frames, you need to know the vertical and horizontal offsets of where a frame should be displayed in relation to the X-pos/YPos of the player.

If you just render each frame with the first pixel on the left assumed to be the X-origin, the character won't be moving properly. e.g. a situation where the player is running and the front leg is less extended in frame 2 compared to frame 1 - the player will suddenly move forward further than it should.

[STE'86]

well the problem is u dont have all the frames tho really do u?

 

what u actually have are 2 sheets full of sprites whose colour usage and and resolution level are far in excess of your machines capabilities.

 

u would be far better advised keeping it simple and aiming for an apple look than wasting your time discussing pie in the sky ideas of converting POP 2 sprites when in reality the basic POP ones will push your machine to it very limits to accomplish.

 

Steve

[+MrFish]

well the problem is u dont have all the frames tho really do u?

Maybe I do.

 

 

what u actually have are 2 sheets full of sprites whose colour usage and and resolution level are far in excess of your machines capabilities.

Agreed. These would take more time to convert, but... there are other ways to achieve the look. Convert the MS-DOS sprites, then modify to this style.

 

 

u would be far better advised keeping it simple and aiming for an apple look than wasting your time discussing pie in the sky ideas of converting POP 2 sprites when in reality the basic POP ones will push your machine to it very limits to accomplish.

It's all playfield colors, and only the skin color uses PM's. Would the MS-DOS ones use only playfield colors?? If so, this would make for one drab looking screen.

[STE'86]

ah right best of luck redrawing 200 MSdos frame conversions to POP 2 standards. u must have found a graphic designer i havent seen on here yet.

 

a word of advice from someone long in and out of the industry tho, drawing 200 frames of sprite data without a definite idea how the coder is actually going to implement them is destined for heartache.

 

Steve

[Heaven/TQA]

well...

 

I have another idea... we take the already existing c64 prototype... adapt the engine to VBXE overlays for the c64 sprites as a simple way?

[+MrFish]

ah right best of luck redrawing 200 MSdos frame conversions to POP 2 standards. u must have found a graphic designer i havent seen on here yet.

There wouldn't be all that much to change after the initial sprite conversion. Outlining the pants, and recoloring the shirt and feet. Then pasting a "static" turban on the head. It's not like the whole graphic has to be redesigned.

 

 

a word of advice from someone long in and out of the industry tho, drawing 200 frames of sprite data without a definite idea how the coder is actually going to implement them is destined for heartache.

No problem. I'm just playing around with ideas, but there's more to them then just, "it could be drawn".

[+MrFish]

Alright, here are two that, once again, could be done in either bitmapped or character graphics:

 

 

 

The only PM's used on the characters are hats (turban), which is a static graphic. No need for animating any PM's.

 

Torches use each use a 1 player and 1 missile (5th player is utilized) split by a DLI, and the spikes and potion are reuse of torches PM's.

 

I've cut down on the highlights, so this color won't dominate the screen.

 

In character mode you would, of course, be able to do more with PM's.

Edited November 8, 2009 by MrFish

[José Pereira]

Hello, I'm back again...

 

MrFish I don't know if you seen my screen.

I used your picture (only changed the colours):

 

I, simply use the PFs like this:

PF0-White

PF1-Gray

PF3-Dark Gray

Backgr.- Darkest Gray.

 

PF2-Different colours (Torches,Bottles,windows on other Levels,etc,...)

I've scroll all the Maps and this and you never have Torches and Bottles on the same Line.

Another thing, in the screen construct Bottles are always on the same horizontal lines, so are torches, windows,the horizontal Blue Line onm the Backward wall...

If you create a DLI to change the different PF2 colours you only do it once (master screen). In all the screen this Objects colours will be on the same lines.

 

 

With this you'll get PF0 for some clothes and the Sword. You'll have now the 4Players+5th Player (or 4PMs.) for your man.

The colours I choose are only a matter of taste, but you'll get the idea.

 

 

Hope this is usefull...

 

 

Greetings,

José Pereira

 

 

Hello all.

 

MrFish don't get me wrong. You're doing a great job. A great one. You have ideas, present us the most beautifull screen design here so far. You've also spend time and having all that Sprite frames converted to 160Resol. it's a real great job!

I don't want you to use my opinion as the only true one, but I think you're trying to do things harder...

 

In your picture you'll have White colour, use this as PF0. You'll get simply Kid clothes, Enemy Pants, Skeletor and the 2 Players Swords.

Now see the Maps and correct me if I'm not right: If PF2 it's the Torche, with DLIs you can get the base of it and the fire. Another DLIs to PF2 for the Bottles. The same applys to other objects/Levels (Windows,...).

Another thing. As I remember you'll have Bonus Levels where you'll have many Bottles on the same Line at the same time (or you'll wate time doing some kind of Multiplex Sprites).

 

 

Now you'll have 4Players and 4Missiles or 5Players. The choice is yours.

With this one you can create the differernt Players animations, or even use some Missiles on the Flames or Bottles.

Another thing: you can enhance the game, like in other versions are put the put the Torche1 fire On and the other OFF and inverse, but this can be done with PF2-Yellow and a only one Missile as Red. When one is on, the other is Off.

 

For the Enemy, try to cut it in horizontal parts and with DLis (Like Analmux suggests) create many different nºs. of PMs. possible..

 

 

It's just my opinion. In my head, and if was me I'll concentrate in having all or allmost all PMs. for the Players (or even the possibility of 5th Player to use that method of Front/behind using Priority8).

 

I know this things of design and how long it takes (and with so many sprite diffrent frames, believe I know...) It can take you/me months to get to something we like and probably know 100% (or near) it WORKS!

 

Don't get my opinions wrong, you seem to be interested in this game as I and all A8 users are. Soo, continue your good work, don't give up... You will get to something!

 

 

Greetings,

Jose Pereira.

[José Pereira]

Hello.

 

I take picture PeteD send and get this using AIS:

 

 

It's 00424, the largets horizontal wide, and it's difficult to put using PMs.

 

What would you do?

 

 

PeteD: I discouver many .DAT on Integrator/Extractor from that site.

What you use to open .DAT files.

There I see, amongst others (Dungeons, Enemys,...)

 

 

Thanks.

Jose Pereira.

hmmm, just use 2 or 3 DLIs. Then only 1 or 2 PM might be needed, maybe even 1 player & 1 missile.

 

EDIT: Of course the best would be to use bitmapped screen in this case. No charmodes.

 

Just quoting Analmux past post.

 

And I remember something from old pages:

Mine:

 

Ste86:

 

 

And something I did:

 

If yuou do PF0 for the "Kid's" clothe and weapon. PM0 for skin and P1 for the hair, you may have Overlap for the shirt as 3rd colour in Multicolour PMs. format

 

 

Jos´´e Pereira.

[José Pereira]

Sorry, of course the bottom (the great one) are the Ste one.

Jose Pereira.

[+MrFish]

 

...Now you'll have 4Players and 4Missiles or 5Players. The choice is yours.

 

 

Hi Jose, and thanks for the complements. You can see with the G2F picture that I posted (the one that matches my first mockup), that ALL players and missiles are already left available for use.

 

I did see the DLI that you added could be used. Although, the shading with it doesn't work out as well.

 

Basically, my two examples show:

 

1. All PM's available for animations

2. PM's not used for animations (PM's used for static objects, except for turbans which require no animation)

 

This is just to show a couple of possible techniques. There are an endless number of possibilities, really.

 

The most important thing is whether or not someone is interested in coding it. So, until then, that's really about all wanted to show. I'll post the G2F examples for the other mockups later.

[+MrFish]

I finally got around to doing the GF2 for my sprite idea using PM's to add color. Two versions, one for "Xformer" palette and one for "OlivierN" palette.

 

 

Prince Sprites.zip

 

Although not used here, the second PM is reserved for use on the Prince in the cases when it would be necessary.

[+Philsan]

To solve memory problem, I think the new Corina cartridge should be used (like Bomb Jake).

 

 

[STE'86]

POP sprite 8 bit conversion to 3 colours is now complete (i think)

 

rename the .txt extension to .zip.

 

good luck

 

Steve

pop sprites c64.txt

[+MrFish]

Two versions, one for "Xformer" palette and one for "OlivierN" palette.

 

Correction: The above should have read "OlivierP". The file in the zip archive was labeled as such. I was basically presenting one for NTSC (Xformer) and PAL (OlivierP).

[Heaven/TQA]

POP sprite 8 bit conversion to 3 colours is now complete (i think)

 

rename the .txt extension to .zip.

 

good luck

 

Steve

 

Cool!!!

 

so at least c64 port is on the way...