emkay Posted June 30, 2012 Share Posted June 30, 2012 LOL 60% is the local optimum? Now it is at the local optimum there. The optimum doesn't get reached without "help from outside" due to weird rules. Local optimum has a very specific meaning. hint: it's not what you think it is. What's strange there? The line is "NOW" at the local optimum. That means, other regions for the picture can vary, but this part is changed to the optimum while not interfering with the local neighbours. The global optimum is what still has to get reached.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irgendwer Posted June 30, 2012 Share Posted June 30, 2012 (edited) 60% is the local optimum? Now it is at the local optimum there. The optimum doesn't get reached without "help from outside" due to weird rules. Last hint, maybe you are really interested what's going on: Yes, 60% can be a local optimum: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Local_maximum.png (It's the smaller hill.) You find the graphic here: http://en.wikipedia....i/Hill_climbing and now guess, which algorithm is used.... Edited June 30, 2012 by Irgendwer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted June 30, 2012 Share Posted June 30, 2012 (edited) 60% is the local optimum? Now it is at the local optimum there. The optimum doesn't get reached without "help from outside" due to weird rules. Last hint, maybe you are really interested what's going on: Yes, 60% can be a local optimum: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Local_maximum.png (It's the smaller hill.) You find the graphic here: http://en.wikipedia....i/Hill_climbing and now guess, which algorithm is used.... Yawn. The algorithm is hill climbing. IT works perfectly in a matrixed register. X, Y....Z depending(if the calculations is 3d) ..... it works with every linear graphics. But the Atari graphics isn't linear. A green band in a violett range is all but a local optimum. It is a local interference and can be adjusted, until the CPU cycles of a scanline are used to the limit. And that's where the converter is incorrect. On the Atari .... it simply doesn't work that way.... it's more a random lucky strike that makes a picture final there. Edited June 30, 2012 by emkay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ANTIQ Posted June 30, 2012 Share Posted June 30, 2012 It's a good idea to convert source pictures to 2bpp first to avoid banding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rybags Posted June 30, 2012 Share Posted June 30, 2012 2bpp = 4 possible colours, kinda pointless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
potatohead Posted June 30, 2012 Share Posted June 30, 2012 Re: PLONK! Yes, it's called "manage ignored users" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R4ngerM4n Posted June 30, 2012 Share Posted June 30, 2012 The algorithm is hill climbing. If you have hills in your picture then the algorithm prolly works perfectly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irgendwer Posted June 30, 2012 Share Posted June 30, 2012 (edited) A green band in a violett range is all but a local optimum. That's wrong, it can be a local optimum regarding algorithmic hill climbing. And that's where the converter is incorrect. Wrong. My last try to explain what is happening follows. On the Atari .... it simply doesn't work that way.... it's more a random lucky strike that makes a picture final there. YES! Now you finally understood what's going on. My (final) try to be helpful: The hill climbing works like this: - Take a german map. (Germany represents something like a colour-combination on a line here.) - Point blindly on a position. - Now travel to that position. - Target: Find the highest mountain of Germany. - Moving principle: As long as your way goes up, you continue climbing. (As long as the colours are nearer to the optimal representation modify them.) - Now guess what: Depending on your starting position, you will find the 'Brocken', 'Grossen Arber', 'Feldberg' or 'Zugspitze' etc.. If you have luck, you will find the last one (nearly 3000m), the others are a local optimum like the 'Teufelsberg' (nearly 115m) - if you have bad luck. The 'Teufelsberg' is like a pink in a green line. - Motivation: Traveling across the complete country takes to long. (Trying out all colour/PM combinations too.) Please, please tell me that you now understand. Edited June 30, 2012 by Irgendwer 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
potatohead Posted June 30, 2012 Share Posted June 30, 2012 That post is heroic! Let's hope it works! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R4ngerM4n Posted June 30, 2012 Share Posted June 30, 2012 Good idea to send emkay on a long journey ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irgendwer Posted June 30, 2012 Share Posted June 30, 2012 (edited) *** Deleted *** Edited June 30, 2012 by Irgendwer 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
potatohead Posted June 30, 2012 Share Posted June 30, 2012 LOL!!! Touche' well played Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted June 30, 2012 Share Posted June 30, 2012 On the Atari .... it simply doesn't work that way.... it's more a random lucky strike that makes a picture final there. YES! Now you finally understood what's going on. You guys are that ignorant that it hurts. This is the base of the explanations: To remove the randomness, and to make the converter more effective/efficient. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irgendwer Posted June 30, 2012 Share Posted June 30, 2012 You guys are that ignorant that it hurts. This is the base of the explanations: To remove the randomness, and to make the converter more effective/efficient. How? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted June 30, 2012 Share Posted June 30, 2012 Please, please tell me that you now understand. Den Mist kannst du dir an den Hut stecken. Was der Konverter macht, ist einen Teil vom Feldberg zu nehmen, da eine Scheibe herauszuschneiden und zu vergessen, weil er ja nicht wichtig ist... dafür wird ein Stück vom Westerwald genau passend gemacht und auch gerne mal das Tal zwischen den Bergen vergessen. Noch schlimmer ist, dass der Konverter den kleinen Feldberg nicht kennt und deswegen nicht berechnet. Hast du es jetzt verstanden? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heaven/TQA Posted June 30, 2012 Share Posted June 30, 2012 Jetzt spinn nicht rum, keep ist sachlich! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted June 30, 2012 Share Posted June 30, 2012 (edited) You guys are that ignorant that it hurts. This is the base of the explanations: To remove the randomness, and to make the converter more effective/efficient. How? What helped much with "high colour" pictures is to use incrementing colours, to have the first picture containing the most details and to add the colours with caution... So the converter gets relevant parts of the image that doesn't count in, when hi colour is used. Edited June 30, 2012 by emkay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted June 30, 2012 Share Posted June 30, 2012 (edited) Jetzt spinn nicht rum, keep ist sachlich! Wer ist denn hier nicht sachlich? Ich erzähle die ganze Zeit davon, die bestehende Software effizienter zu gestalten und bekomme nur so saudumme Kommentare zu lesen. Edited June 30, 2012 by emkay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted June 30, 2012 Share Posted June 30, 2012 OK. Another try: Look at the lips.... the white colour. It is a clear and separated zone, to have the red colour there. The converter won't in a gazillion evaluations set the dark red colour there. The solution is to set an index to all colours and to set the right colour in the code, after the picture is calculated. Same with the grey... set it to blue , will result in a better shape for the face, after the calculation is done, the colour simply can be changed in the code. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irgendwer Posted June 30, 2012 Share Posted June 30, 2012 (edited) Please, please tell me that you now understand. Den Mist kannst du dir an den Hut stecken. Was der Konverter macht, ist einen Teil vom Feldberg zu nehmen, da eine Scheibe herauszuschneiden und zu vergessen, weil er ja nicht wichtig ist... dafür wird ein Stück vom Westerwald genau passend gemacht und auch gerne mal das Tal zwischen den Bergen vergessen. Noch schlimmer ist, dass der Konverter den kleinen Feldberg nicht kennt und deswegen nicht berechnet. Hast du es jetzt verstanden? Beside the fact that I find it very impolite to use german in an AE/BE-language forum, you disqualified once again for a factual discussion. If you are so brilliant like you behave, please enlighten us with a better, working converter. Seems that we all are to silly. Sorry, I forgot that you don't go into the programming valley of jerks. After bashing RMT, G2F you have found another program. Can you please play another record? This has been become more than boring... ...genius. Edited June 30, 2012 by Irgendwer 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R4ngerM4n Posted June 30, 2012 Share Posted June 30, 2012 Can you please play another record? No! Please, no further experimental tunes... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sack-c0s Posted June 30, 2012 Share Posted June 30, 2012 (edited) Please, please tell me that you now understand. Den Mist kannst du dir an den Hut stecken. Was der Konverter macht, ist einen Teil vom Feldberg zu nehmen, da eine Scheibe herauszuschneiden und zu vergessen, weil er ja nicht wichtig ist... dafür wird ein Stück vom Westerwald genau passend gemacht und auch gerne mal das Tal zwischen den Bergen vergessen. Noch schlimmer ist, dass der Konverter den kleinen Feldberg nicht kennt und deswegen nicht berechnet. Hast du es jetzt verstanden? No he entendido ni una puta palabra. Si intentas otra vez en ingles quizas... To be fair sometimes when you feel you aren't getting the point across I can see that out of frustration you do just want to drop back to your mother tongue to make sure you are absolutely saying what you want to say to get the point across - I've been there and done that. It doesn't cover the fact that other people just don't speak the same language though so it's not really a way out. ... I find it very impolite to use german in an AE/BE-language forum... Some people just don't have English as their first language - I'm not sure I'm 100% behind the idea that people who don't quite have it as easy as me (I'm not sure how long I could hold out on a Spanish language forum) and can use their first language without having to think so hard are somehow stupid. There's a lot of folks here using a 2nd/3rd language and doing the best they can with it (which sometimes feels like fighting with both hands tied behind your back), which is better than I think most of us brits/americans/whoever can do and attacking someone on that basis isn't really called for. Criticism for being negative and coming down on everyone elses projects and achievements is fair enough though. Edited July 1, 2012 by sack-c0s Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
potatohead Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 I personally don't mind when people do that. I run one of the translators and it comes across just fine most of the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snicklin Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 (edited) Beside the fact that I find it very impolite to use german in an AE/BE-language forum Ich denke dass es OK wenn mein andere sprache nicht so gut ist. (Wie mein Deutch). Oder veilleict beide sprache mit eine Ubersetzung nuetzen, wie ich. Hast du schlechte dinge uber leute zu sagen? Bitte Englisch nuetzen. Oder besser, sag nichts! I think that this is OK when you are not so good at the other language (like my German). Or perhaps you can use two languages with a translation like me. If you have bad things to say about people, then make sure to use English or better again, say nothing! Edited July 1, 2012 by snicklin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 After bashing RMT, G2F you have found another program. Can you please play another record? This has been become more than boring... ...genius. Vice versa fits better. People do some half baked stuff, possibly feeling generous, doing something for the A8. At the end it is not really helpful, while tools like G2F and this Rastaconverter were much more advanced than RMT. As Heaven stated ... in one of his posts.... he feels annoyed by people show The problem here is, that EVEN if things get approved, you guys deny it. I wonder what cortexfailure is causeing that. One mark surely is the "unfailable sight" that gets disturbed.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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