madmax2069 Posted June 16, 2010 Share Posted June 16, 2010 But I don't know how to implement that on a disc tray? Both the slot load and the tray load use a cap that is magnetically held in place on the spindle, which holds the disk onto the spindle. the Dreamcast, Gamecube, PS1, PS2 slimline, and maybe a few others have a clip (3 or 4 balls) on the spindle that the disk snaps onto to hold it in place. the disk in the 360 is spinning at such a high rate of speed any movement can dislodge the cap that holds the disk in place causing it to grind the eye. The only way to solve the issue is to make the magnetic cap allot stronger. It isn't as much of a issue on the PS3 because it spins at a much slower speed. Ever try to turn something that is spinning that fast, it fights you because of the cintrifical force of the spinning disk. ever seen a motorcycle wobble same concept on whats happening when you tilt something spinning too fast. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DracIsBack Posted June 16, 2010 Share Posted June 16, 2010 (edited) There is a big difference between slight movement or vibration and changing the orientation of the system while a disc is spinning. That was my question. Are the discs getting scratched because someone physically picked up and moved the thing while it was operating? Or, alternatively, did someone/something (dog or cat) bump the system slightly while in operation to cause the scratch? The former is deliberate and too bad, IMO. The latter is more likely to happen in real life and there should be at least a few safeguards in place. Edited June 16, 2010 by DracIsBack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rxd Posted June 16, 2010 Share Posted June 16, 2010 Been around the world and found That only stupid people are breeding The cretins cloning and feeding And I don't even own a TV --- Flagpole Sitta, Harvey Danger 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RevEng Posted June 16, 2010 Share Posted June 16, 2010 I agree that it's a completely stupid thing to do, especially given the warning on the DVD cover - but I'm a little pissed that manufacturers don't try to build their stuff like tanks anymore. If a console was standing vertical and a pet knocked it slightly off true vertical, I wouldn't be surprised in the slightest if the game was scratched. At times the 360's DVD spins at 12x (that's 6840 to 19200 RPMs depending on which part of the disc is being read) and centrifugal force being what it is, that DVD wants to remain completely balanced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hex65000 Posted June 16, 2010 Share Posted June 16, 2010 I view this as a failure from their design group/management. You can't stupid-proof anything. That said, you _can_ reduce the risk of failure due to minor mistakes. When I watched that video it didn't look like he grabbed it and shook it around. If that was the case, then yeah, the ones that say the guy is an idiot have a leg to stand on. It is simply MS saving money again... "Do not tilt or move while the disc is spinning in the drive"* * = We saved a ton of money by printing this awesome sticker instead of actually addressing the problem. Not to mention, since we think that the lot of you are barely literate, you'll wreck 70% of the discs out there. This will pave the way for digital download content. Buy our crap. We are Effing awesome! Hex. [ Will not buy a "slim" at all until MS gets their sorry act together... ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DracIsBack Posted June 16, 2010 Share Posted June 16, 2010 I agree that it's a completely stupid thing to do, especially given the warning on the DVD cover - but I'm a little pissed that manufacturers don't try to build their stuff like tanks anymore. Agree. I don't think they should safeguard against a scenario where an idiot picks up the console while running, holds it over his head and starts swinging it. On the other hand, if I'm playing a game and my dog brushes it while walking by, causing it to shake for a second, should my game be wrecked? There should be some degree of durability from everyday life use. Maybe the new system has it. This is where I'm not sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Helmet Posted June 16, 2010 Share Posted June 16, 2010 The former is deliberate and too bad, IMO. The latter is more likely to happen in real life and there should be at least a few safeguards in place. Umm...why would you have your console sitting where a dog or cat could bump it in the first place? Its an expensive piece of technology...put it in a safe place Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyper_Eye Posted June 16, 2010 Share Posted June 16, 2010 [ Will not buy a "slim" at all until MS gets their sorry act together... ] More slims for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moycon Posted June 16, 2010 Share Posted June 16, 2010 That was my question. Are the discs getting scratched because someone physically picked up and moved the thing while it was operating? Or, alternatively, did someone/something (dog or cat) bump the system slightly while in operation to cause the scratch?. I can say that I have lifted my 360 and moved it while it was running with no ill effects, but to change the orientation of the system from horizontal to vertical like the guy did in the video is where you will run into issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabriel Posted June 16, 2010 Share Posted June 16, 2010 I put ice cream in my 360. Now it doesn't work. Microsoft sucks. I can't believe they'd make such a shoddy console! And there's no warning or anything. There's no label anywhere on the console that says "do not put ice cream in the console." I can't believe they didn't test this kind of stuff! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hex65000 Posted June 16, 2010 Share Posted June 16, 2010 [ Will not buy a "slim" at all until MS gets their sorry act together... ]More slims for me. ... and fewer discs for everybody. I put ice cream in my 360. Now it doesn't work. Microsoft sucks. I can't believe they'd make such a shoddy console! And there's no warning or anything. There's no label anywhere on the console that says "do not put ice cream in the console." I can't believe they didn't test this kind of stuff!Congratulations! You've missed the point. The point is that with a bit more effort and most likely a little more cost, the tilting problem could be easily fixed. Just like how the 360 has had an asinine thermal solution as of day 1. These are both _preventable_ problems for a small cost increase. We are so well trained to go "Oh it's broken, I'll just buy another one." that it's scary. Consumer electronics aren't built with margin anymore. There is more complexity and more moving parts that draw more power. Heat is easy to handle if done right, but they speced the power supply at the hairy edge of operation and then skimped on the cooling. The CD can be secured mechanically from flopping around the system so the drive doesn't wreck media. The downside is that it incurs an extra cost to do it right. Nevermind that they are making money hand over fist off of us or anything. Also, you guys are assuming that the drive won't randomly gouge discs even if it is laying flat. A slightly warped disc? Alignment problems? <sarcasm> Perhaps I should buy a level instead of Microsoft addressing the real problem. </sarcasm> Hex. [ Crappy designs in consumer electronics is a major pet peeve of mine. It can be sexy all day, but if it just 'dies' because it wants to -- that isn't acceptable. ] 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyper_Eye Posted June 16, 2010 Share Posted June 16, 2010 As I've said... 360 since day 1... not a single piece of wrecked media. We could consider this the thinning of the gaming community herd or at least the thinning of the wallets for the idiots among us. I don't perform acrobatics with my consoles. They seem to work perfectly fine left in the orientation they are placed in. I also don't stand a console vertically if there is any chance it could be knocked over. It seems to me some people were chomping at the bit for something to strike at the new slim with. If this is the biggest problem it has I am all over one of these. My current 360 has lasted for a long time and I have been wanting to upgrade to an HDMI-capable 360 but knew the slim would be announced and so waited. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nukey Shay Posted June 16, 2010 Share Posted June 16, 2010 I put ice cream in my 360. Now it doesn't work. Microsoft sucks. I can't believe they'd make such a shoddy console! And there's no warning or anything. There's no label anywhere on the console that says "do not put ice cream in the console." I can't believe they didn't test this kind of stuff! Putting ice cream in a computer running any version of Windows can ruin that computer. So clearly this has been an existing problem for as long as Microsoft has been in business. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldSchoolRetroGamer Posted June 16, 2010 Share Posted June 16, 2010 Yeah I saw that, so? I mean really, do you move your optical disc systems around much while playing? DON'T MOVE IT problem solved. Really some people are just reaching for something to moan about, if that is the biggest issue I can live with it, all I care about is if it's more reliable and less prone to overheating and failures............... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+remowilliams Posted June 16, 2010 Share Posted June 16, 2010 Earlier while juggling my PS3 and several bowling pins during an intense game of Uncharted the disc got scratched, then the noise broke my concentration and I dropped the PS3 on the floor cracking it. I'm suing Sony. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RevEng Posted June 16, 2010 Share Posted June 16, 2010 Putting ice cream in a computer running any version of Windows can ruin that computer. So clearly this has been an existing problem for as long as Microsoft has been in business. Fixed that for you! I kid, I kid! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabriel Posted June 16, 2010 Share Posted June 16, 2010 These are both _preventable_ problems for a small cost increase. Yeah. Don't juggle the console that you never need to physically touch, or even be anywhere near, during gameplay. Problem solved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nukey Shay Posted June 16, 2010 Share Posted June 16, 2010 Fixed that for you! It can only be attributable to "human error". This sort of thing has cropped up before, and it has always been due to "human error". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev Posted June 17, 2010 Author Share Posted June 17, 2010 i hope the final console doesnt have that ugly ass sticker on it............ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moycon Posted June 17, 2010 Share Posted June 17, 2010 i hope the final console doesnt have that ugly ass sticker on it............ It will, it will clearly warn people not to be an idiot so that's a good thing. You have a 360, so you know they are the cling "stickers" that can be easily removed in about 2 seconds just by peeling them off. If I were you though I'd just leave it on. Just in case you forget not to juggle your console around while it's operating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atariboy Posted June 17, 2010 Share Posted June 17, 2010 (edited) The point is that with a bit more effort and most likely a little more cost, the tilting problem could be easily fixed. Just like how the 360 has had an asinine thermal solution as of day 1. These are both _preventable_ problems for a small cost increase. I don't see why the cost of the console should have to go up to protect idiots that will be moving around the console while their $60 game is spinning at high rpm's in the system. Let their disc get scratched. Will teach them not to be such an idiot the next time. Edited June 17, 2010 by Atariboy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mendon Posted June 17, 2010 Share Posted June 17, 2010 I have never had a disk ruined by my Xbox360. Now, I've had several disks develop small cracks near the center hole from trying to get the damn disk out of the game case and eventually these cracks get bigger and bigger, but I'm never had my 360 scratch or disfigure a disk. And the answer to a child or pet possibly nudging a 360 during gameplay...... SUPER GLUE!! (CLING STICKER: using any adhesive on a child or pet is not recommended by MS and will void your warranty) Mendon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmax2069 Posted June 17, 2010 Share Posted June 17, 2010 (CLING STICKER: using any adhesive on a child or pet is not recommended by MS and will void your warranty) Mendon DAMN IT!!!!! I just did that with a friends kid that would not stop trying to pick up the 360. the kid is now stuck to the wall using super glue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emehr Posted June 17, 2010 Share Posted June 17, 2010 The disk destroying thing sucks, sure, but isn't it more important to know if they fixed the issue that caused RROD? By the time I get the confidence to purchase one they'll be onto the next big thing. On another note, is it too much to ask to hold the camera still? It's like they forgot they were holding a video-recording device. Do we really need a blurry shot of the disk drive or some guy's shoulder? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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