Repeat Players

[José Pereira]

Hi.

 

I discouver this some days ago at AtariOnline:

It is 2Players in Multicolour, and so, I get a third color by Ored the two Players.

 

This is something I've already know sometimes ago.

 

How can we repeat PMs.:

1st.- It must be the same shape as the previous one.

Questionn: To don't waste cycles (more sentences/coding) it must also have the same colours, pixels width, high and shape's tall?

 

2nd.-This Screens uses ANTIC4 Char Mode then it is not possible repeat at the BadLines (start of each Chars Line, 0,8,16, (multiples of ...).

Question: If it's on a Bitmap Mode (E,F, Gr.8,...) it will be the same as the previous, a real copy, isn't it?

 

3nd.-The repeat Players are more possible at the right side of the Screen (more available cycles).

Questions:

a.)-> From where xPos. can you start the repeat of the Players (Middle to right part of the Lines, last 2/3, almost or at the right side of the Line)'

b.)-> The Screen beeing 32, 40,48 Chars wide has anything to do with the Players repeat, I think not (PMs. are not barred by Screen sizes...)?

c.)-> First two Players and some Chars space and then the repeat players. Isn't possible to put the Players just next the previous (real) Players, isn't it (you'll need some Chars space between them or not?)?

d.)-> This Screen have two Players joined in Multicolour to get the third colour.

Is it possible to do something like 1st Player , some Chars space, 2nd Player, Chars space and repeat 1st, chars space and repeat 2n player?

(also like before, but: Player1,Player2,...,Repeat2,Repeat1(invert their orders)?)

 

4th.-Here you see two Players in almost all Screen High, is it possible to have this just some Lines, stop and doing again the repeat, but with different colours, shapes, sizes, xPos. some Lines more to the bottom?

 

5th.-This is used in a Static Picture.

What can we get if we want to have two Bars: the two Pms. at the leftest side of the Screen and the same (off course!) the same shape at the rightest side

of the Screen and inside/between them have the Playing Area with two more Players, 4Missiles, DLIs,... with some guys moving (a Game inside/between the)?

Is it possible to create a Game having 2Players, Screenplaying area, Repeat 2Players?

 

6th.-As the previous question (5th.) -And if it was just one Player repeat, will you get more cycles/possible a Game between them?

(any difference in cycles/time/speed if it is a Player or a Missile, or if it 2Players or 1Player and a Missile repeat?)

 

7th.-This way two Players (or two Missiles) are the Maxim. possible? Or more possible if it is a static picture?

 

8th.-Thinking, thinking,..., no, no 8th question, they are so many to get your answers/patience. That's enough for Today... Thanks to all! sincerily!...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Greetings.

José Pereira.

 

 

 

 

 

(P.s.- not thinking nor any Game to use this technics, just to know what is or what isn't possible for Games using this....

José Pereira.)

[Tezz]

I use this method in MM Jose. What is possible is down to the number of available cycles in the dli. You have the most cycles available with a 32 byte wide screen. As you correctly mentioned, you will have "bad lines" in all char modes. Meaning in simple terms the 1st pixel line of every row is not possible to change. This is because of Antic reading the address of the char set at the start of each row. You can change the position, colour and size of the players, however you must also restore their state again ready for the next line to be drawn so what is possible is greatly limited.

I'm sure the other AA members here will post longer explanation and some examples perhaps.

[José Pereira]

[José Pereira]

 

 

OOps!...

 

Nothing particulary about DIZZY, but remember this one to show.

 

40wide Screen.

Use Gr.8 (and not have BadLines trouble).

 

Use Player0 Top for Left Dizzy White Image, repeat some Chars on the right P0, Normal width (same colour, same shape, same size,...) for the second Dizzy Image.

It's on Status Area, almost nothing happens/moves here, just Logos.

Is there any problem here/untill here?

 

Second Repeat:

Some Lines Down, P0 for the Brown Tree (P0 change to Double Width, new colour, different xPos.).

P0 on the leftmost part of the Screen, Playing Area and repeat the same P0 at the righest part of the Screen.

Is there any problem here?

 

 

 

1st Possible?

2nd Possible?

 

1st and 2nd together (like on the C64 Picture)?

 

 

 

 

Thanks.

Greetings.

José Pereira.

[Tezz]

I've not looked in any great detail at the grab from Dizzy you've attached Jose but certainly what you are asking about in your second repeat with p0 being on the far left then making several register changes for the copy over on the far right is possible to do.

 

Remember to keep in mind with your concepts that with a game as big as dizzy with many screens, unless you just compromise with some static pm overlays that are common to all the screens, the amount of additional memory you would need for the individual dli's and compressed player data would be quite significant.

Edited September 20, 2010 by Tezz

[José Pereira]

I've not looked in any great detail at the grab from Dizzy you've attached Jose but certainly what you are asking about in your second repeat with p0 being on the far left then making several register changes for the copy over on the far right is possible to do.

 

Remember to keep in mind with your concepts that a game as big as dizzy with many screens, unless you just compromise with some static pm overlays that are common to all the screens, the amount of additional memory you would need for the individual dli's and compressed player data would be quite significant.

 

 

 

 

Let's say that it will have:

 

Gr.8 Bitmap Mode.

 

Top Status Area with PMs. underlays

_________________________________DLI_________________________________________________________

P0-Left Brown Tree,..., repeat P0 for the Brown Tree.

 

This is the Master Screen.

 

 

 

 

 

Now each Screen will place the Tiles over the Playing Area.

Not any DLI. for the Screen Gfxs.

P1 for Dizzy

P2,P3 for Screen Gfxs. colour eneble.

4 Missiles for Enemys (probably as 5th Player)

 

Just this. Only DLIs. for PMs., but only P1 and 4Missiles moving.

 

 

What do you think? Could it be possible?

 

 

 

 

 

José Pereira.

[Tezz]

Yes that should be possible with the master screen as you described being always present and P1 used to overlay dizzy (assuming he does not move horizontally in single 1:1 pixel). Using P2 and P3 for Screen Gfxs freely in different positions on each screen should be ok technically although you will need additional tables and code to account for their positions each screen. The obvious easiest option would be just to have the outside frame and score panels with the static pm overlays leaving the game area in monchrome.

[José Pereira]

Turning things to another possible(?) method:

 

And if it was by mid-scanline PF1&PF2 changing:

PF1&2-Browns, mid-scanline changing (always at the same xPos.) for the PF1&2 Playing Area colours, 2nd mid-scanline changes PF1&2 to Browns.

See that the end Line colours are the same as the ones that will start on the next Line.

All the same concept as before for the Playing Area, but with one more Player to use there.

 

And what about this?

 

 

José Pereira.

[ANTIQ]

Remember that you can't change two colours at the same time.

 

From the top:

 

1) Yes, but height doesn't matter because we're talking about one line.

 

3a) You can repeat players less often at the beginning of a line.

b) Somewhat.

c) I think you can repeat a player immediately although I haven't tested it.

d) Yes and yes.

 

4) Yes.

 

5) Yes.

 

6) Yes, more repeats take more processor time and no, not really.

 

7) You can reuse all the objects under certain conditions.

[Rybags]

In theory you could possibly reuse one object on a badline of a normal display, although there'd be conditions.

 

- the first position has to be left of the start of normal screen - by how much I'm not sure, but I'd guess at least 4 colour-clocks, maybe even 8. But that's only 1 or 2 pixels of a 4x expanded object that wouldn't appear in the normal "window".

 

- due to DMA, there'd be no chance of changing colour or graphics, so the usefullness would be a bit limited.

 

You can change position and graphics of an object as soon as it's displaying, but changing colour will be immediate (aside from the normal 1 colour-clock delay when changing colour registers)

Edited September 26, 2010 by Rybags

[emkay]

In theory you could possibly reuse one object on a badline of a normal display, although there'd be conditions.

 

- the first position has to be left of the start of normal screen - by how much I'm not sure, but I'd guess at least 4 colour-clocks, maybe even 8. But that's only 1 or 2 pixels of a 4x expanded object that wouldn't appear in the normal "window".

 

- due to DMA, there'd be no chance of changing colour or graphics, so the usefullness would be a bit limited.

 

You can change position and graphics of an object as soon as it's displaying, but changing colour will be immediate (aside from the normal 1 colour-clock delay when changing colour registers)

 

 

Players only should be re-used in the "shape" mode. Or, in vertical attack waves, to double the "enemies"...

 

In good "action" games, the "doubled" players should be used in the vertical range of the protagonist, to have some more colours around.

 

A scoreboard always can take usage of the GTIA mode... overlayed with players..... just like in Koronis Rift.

 

It's in the correct sharing of the available resources

[atariksi]

In theory you could possibly reuse one object on a badline of a normal display, although there'd be conditions.

 

- the first position has to be left of the start of normal screen - by how much I'm not sure, but I'd guess at least 4 colour-clocks, maybe even 8. But that's only 1 or 2 pixels of a 4x expanded object that wouldn't appear in the normal "window".

 

- due to DMA, there'd be no chance of changing colour or graphics, so the usefullness would be a bit limited.

 

You can change position and graphics of an object as soon as it's displaying, but changing colour will be immediate (aside from the normal 1 colour-clock delay when changing colour registers)

 

One way of changing color (in a restricted way) and position in a horizontally replicated sprite with one store (4 cycles) is to use the OR mode and have the missile expanded 4X where you will put the next incarnation.