The sad story about my Atari 2600 TV format conversions

[oesii]

I think the issue is ethical, Thomas put in a lot of work converting these carts. He and Randy don't see eye to eye because of previous transactions and Thomas asked him to take his homebrews and conversions off the Hozer website. The ethical thing to do among collectors would be to honor Thomas' wishes even if you weren't legally obliged to.

 

AtariAge has shown some proper ethical and legal cooperation this year by removing Activision roms from their site when asked, Hozer was politely asked to do the same with Thomas' work but it appears that he's not interested in doing that because he can get away with it.

 

I think a lot of people here would also agree if a programmer like Rob Fulop or anyone from Parker Bros. like you mentioned wanted their stuff pulled an ethical collector/dealer would stop selling them.

[Cupcakus]

Megamanfan

 

Well put... exactly my feelings :-)

[MegaManFan]

I

AtariAge has shown some proper ethical and legal cooperation this year by removing Activision roms from their site when asked, Hozer was politely asked to do the same with Thomas' work but it appears that he's not interested in doing that because he can get away with it.

 

To that end, I wonder if Hozer continued selling labelless Activision reproductions even after AA pulled the files as requested. If SO, he could be in trouble. I'm just glad more companies haven't asked the Al's to pull the ROM files, because ethically I'm sure they would - and I just hope they don't have to! If they all start vanishing it takes a lot of the fun out of the Atari scene.

[CPUWIZ]

I

AtariAge has shown some proper ethical and legal cooperation this year by removing Activision roms from their site when asked, Hozer was politely asked to do the same with Thomas' work but it appears that he's not interested in doing that because he can get away with it.

 

To that end, I wonder if Hozer continued selling labelless Activision reproductions even after AA pulled the files as requested. If SO, he could be in trouble. I'm just glad more companies haven't asked the Al's to pull the ROM files, because ethically I'm sure they would - and I just hope they don't have to! If they all start vanishing it takes a lot of the fun out of the Atari scene.

 

He is in trouble, read Ken Love's post.

[Albert]

Randy has posted a response to Thomas' message on rec.games.video.classic. It is full of lies in an attempt to damage the credibility of AtariAge, Thomas Jentzsch and Joe Grand. Here is the full text of his message, and we will be responding to it shortly.

 

-----------------------------------------------

 

Hello Chris!

 

well, I expected *someone* after 18 years worth of making games to

stand up for me on AA. But no one has.

 

This whole thing started because AA wanted to sell the XYPE games and

cut me out of the loop. Most of the XYPE guys were very loyal to me,

but Thomas was very disappointed. So AA got to work on Thomas. Thomas

sends me this mail saying "AA has been telling me things about you,

and don't bother defending yourself because I know you lie" In other

words, AA couldn't get what they wanted out in the open so they started

whispering in Thomas' ear.

 

The first "lie" was I claim that I have never demanded anyone be

exclusive to me. They use Simon Q. as "proof" that I have. Simon has

bad english - what he said was something like "I had no choice". The

reality was he and I had made a deal that I was to sell his games

once his stock 100 were gone. AA wanted to sell them, too, and Simon

asked me about it I told him I thought it best he choose either them or

me. In his own words - "I had no choice" means he wanted to go with me

from the beginning. In other words, he was not wavering in his decision

to go with me, not that I forced him. He was choosing me. That was his

choice. I have had several emails and talks with him since then, there

is no doubt that the choice was entirely his. But AA needed something

to blow up to Thomas. So supposedly I lied. Since then, AA has

asked many people to be exclusive to THEM. I suppose it's ok for them

to do that since they never claimed they wouldn't. See how that works?

 

The other supposed lie is that I told Thomas the price of 4K boards

doubled from $1 to $2 once AA became involved. I used to buy them from

Joe directly. I mentioned that I used to get "50 at $1 and now it was

$2" Joe said I was lying, that I never got 50 from him (actually,

I have, and I have his e-mail to prove it) and that I never got them at

$1. Well, I got them at like exactly $1.20 and the price jumped to $2.

What I was saying was that the price roughly doubled, and Joe said I

was lying. I have his email proving that HE was lying, in his own

words these are the prices. The price DID double once AA got involved.

But somehow I lie.

 

Thomas wanted desperately to sell his games on AA and wanted someone to

blame for him to leave XYPE's rules of sticking together. Instead of

being a man about it, he wanted to blame me. So because of these "just

horrible lies" he felt he had to remove all of his games from me and

move on over to AA. Now he's mad because I have been offering to sell

copies of his "freely given" PAL/NTSC conversions, games that he himself

did not write nor does he own. He's VERY angry at me, his mails to me

are very bitter, cynical, insulting, and full of lies of his own, which

I don't even bother to respond to anymore.

 

That's the whole story. I am done. I would be delighted to make you

carts, at a very cheap price. But as for Hozer Video, few have really

given me a lot of support and it is very disappointing. I feel as if

all that I have done for all these years makes no difference

to anyone. So many people on AA are just jumping in the witch hunt and

breathing all kinds of threats and such. I do not claim to have a

perfect record, after 18 years I have made *plenty* of mistakes that an

enemy could jump on, but I have always always always always tried to

deal honestly with everyone, and I am better than that.

 

Forgive me Chris, but I am posting this message to R.G.V.C so everyone

can know the AA guys are greedy, Joe is a liar, and Thomas is just

whatever Thomas is. He used to be a friend, and I was shocked when he

accepted all AA said without talking to me first. Never did he say "hey

Randy, I heard such and such, what can you tell me about it?" but right

from when he decided to go to AA he has been very insulting.

When I defend myself, somehow I am always the liar. Finally I also

became very mad, and I sent him some rather choice emails. Joe just

threatens me and threatens me. AA has removed every reference to Hozer

Video from their web site. So be it.

 

I am taking Hozer Video down for good. I thought I had made a

difference all these years, surely I have contributed heavily. But

apparently a few well placed lies is all it takes to get a bunch of

people turned against me. So long and thanks for all the fish. If

anyone wants a nice stock of boards, carts, or even an eprom burner I

know where these can be bought at some very reasonable prices.

 

Thanks much to Tim, Steve, Andrew, Paul, Piero, Greg, Ed, Chris, John,

Manuel, Simon, Erik, Eric, Graham, and the others who stuck by me thick

and thin despite the whispering going on. I am sad that you are left

without a source for cheap games, maybe one of you will have better luck

than I did.

 

Randy

 

Chris Larkin wrote:

 

One more thing....

 

AA has been talking with me too about some things, and I was wondering

what lies they might have told Thomas about you... I don't want to be

"duped" like he was....

 

Thanks again Randy for your side!

 

--Chris

 

----- Original Message -----

From: "Randy Crihfeild"

To: "Chris Larkin"

Sent: Tuesday, December 10, 2002 5:12 AM

Subject: Re: Randy!?!?

 

 

Where did you see Thomas had an issue with me?

 

Thomas has asked me not to sell his homebrews, Thrust and

Jammed. The short version is that AA has convinced him

to let them sell them, and they drummed up some lies

about me to convince him. It's all about the money. Well,

my *personal* list, the list of carts that I own, is

posted on my web site and Thrust and Jammed are on there.

He feels I am still advertising that I am selling them,

and I most surely do not. No one has asked me for one,

and if they had I would tell them they are not for sale.

It's as simple as that.

 

On Mon, 9 Dec 2002 22:43:21 -0800

"Chris Larkin" wrote:

 

Randy,

 

I was getting ready to talk with you about some stuff

reguarding my hombrew 2600 game, when I notice Thomas all

of sudden has an issue with you... I'm not one to judge

and I'd really like to know what you have to say?

 

I don't want any silly situation that may be nothing get

in the way with future buisness between us... Let me know

what's up!

 

--Chris Larkin

[MegaManFan]

Hey Thomas.

 

I wouldn't worry too much about it.

 

Our lawyers will be on him shortly for "other" reasons.

 

- Ken

 

HA! How did I miss this one? Nice going Randy! As my wife would no doubt say, what a MO-RON! (Sorry, I couldn't resist.) Kudos to Ken.

[joesmooth]

Here is my response that I posted to RGVC. Note that pieces of this message were used in my first reply to the AA forum, but the majority is related to the PCB price accusations.

 

Joe

 

----

 

Thanks Randy. I've been waiting for this so I can bring this out into the public light and make people aware of the real situation.

 

I have had issues in the past regarding Randy and my Atari PCBs that I sell to make it easier for people to build homebrew carts. I encountered a major attitude from Randy, an unwillingness to listen, and extremely unprofessional business practices/ethics which I will not tolerate. Unfortunately, I chose not to partner with Randy anymore.

 

Allow me to explain so the general public understands. We (Randy and I) have been through this discussion before, and he refuses to listen and accept the facts.

 

I sell new Atari printed circuit boards (that I designed) to allow people to build homebrew carts without having to modify the circuitry in old carts. I used to sell these PCBs to people directly, but worked out an exclusive relationship with AtariAge to sell the boards through their store. This allows me to continue to development new games and products and not have to deal with the hassle of a store, packing orders, etc.

 

The price of my circuit boards is based on the cost to manufacture the boards coupled with my time and commitment I have put into the design. The prices go down as quantity goes up, as happens in most any industry.

Here are the prices that I was selling boards at during the time of Randy's dispute - I raised the prices slightly in May 2002 to reflect a price raise from the manufacturer, but the change was very slight and before that, the board prices had never changed:

 

< 25 $5.00

25 $4.00

50 $3.50

75 $3.50

100 $3.00

125 $3.00

150 $3.00

200 $2.40

250 $2.00

300 $1.75

400 $1.50

500 $1.25

 

Randy purchased circuit boards from me a few times and I gave him the quantity pricing reflected above (actually a little less). Here is what he has purchased from me in the past:

 

600 @ $1 each, July 30, 2001

600 @ $1.20 each, March 10, 2002

235 @ $2 each, September 6, 2002

 

As you can see, the first 2 orders were for 600 pieces and the last order was for 235. Obviously, he ordered less boards on 9/6/2002, so the price reflects that (there is not as much of a quantity discount as there would be if he had ordered more). This is not very hard to understand.

 

Anyway, Randy claims the prices have gone dramatically up (from $1 to $2 in quantity) since moving exclusively to AtariAge. The prices have been raised slightly because of the move to a store front where more work is required to process orders (Alex and Albert from AtariAge handle all the orders manually and provide much better support than I ever could). The prices are extremely reasonable to me and the mark-up from manufacturing is still very low. The whole point of making the PCBs in the first place was to give something back to the community, make it easier for non-electronics-inclined people to make boards, and to help me build my first run of SCSIcide carts.

 

Aside from the price issue, my real beef with Randy had to do with his unethical and unacceptable business practices. Randy decided to contact the vendor that manufactures my PCBs and tried to place an order without going through me. Going behind my back to get PCB's fabbed is absolutely unacceptable and not a business practice that I want to associate with. Here are pieces of the message I wrote to Randy about it:

 

>I received an interesting phone call this morning from Chris (one of

>the PCB houses I use) - I'm in Atlanta on business and his phone call

>woke me up. He mentioned you tried to place an order for my circuit

>board design - that is NOT cool to go around me. The board design and

>layout is 100% owned and copyrighted by me and I have complete control

>over who is authorized to purchase my design or boards.

>

>My controlling my personal board design has nothing to do with

>competition, there are other people with 2600 board designs out there.

>I don't mark the boards up very much and don't make $%#@ for money. The

>one thing I demand from people is respect. It was disrespectful to try

>and skirt around me to go directly to my manufacturer.

>

>I spent a lot of time and money to design, develop, and manufacture

>these boards and deserve the proper compensation. How could you think

>that going directly to fab would be the right thing to do? As I

>mentioned in the previous e-mail, AtariAge will be exclusively handling

>all requests for PCB orders. They have some in stock.

 

Randy claims he had called them a few days before when he couldn't get in touch with me (still unacceptable), but my board fab contact said that Randy had sent him e-mail within the day or two. The facts just didn't line up.

 

As for Thomas's issue, what Randy is doing is profiting off of other people's work without giving proper credit. For me, this comes down to a purely moral issue and not an issue of copyright. Thomas spent the time modifying the games - if he hadn't spent the time, the modified games would not exist. It seems to me like it would be in the best interest of the classic gaming community for Randy (and anyone else making and selling games) to respect the wishes of homebrew authors, as that will make the community flourish. Burning bridges and being hard-headed, sarcastic, and unreasonable does nothing but create problems.

 

Also, Randy has claimed multiple times that AtariAge has "convinced" people to sell games exclusively through them. From my point of view, this is far from the truth. For example, my choice for AA to exlusively sell SCSIcide was a result of the PCB issue with Randy mentioned above. Also, given their dedication to the community (I'm not talking about the store here, but the rest of the AA site and its resources), professional look and feel of AA's carts, the care they take in producing other people's homebrews, and their integrity, the choice now is really a no-brainer.

 

So Randy, if you care to call me a liar, go ahead. Actions speak louder than words. I have facts to prove otherwise and have no problem sharing them with the public.

 

Joe Grand

2600 SCSIcide

2600/5200 PCBs

joe@pixelspast.com

http://www.pixelspast.com

 

 

Randy Crihfield wrote:

> The other supposed lie is that I told Thomas the price of 4K boards

> doubled from $1 to $2 once AA became involved. I used to buy them from

> Joe directly. I mentioned that I used to get "50 at $1 and now it was

> $2" Joe said I was lying, that I never got 50 from him (actually,

> I have, and I have his e-mail to prove it) and that I never got them at

> $1. Well, I got them at like exactly $1.20 and the price jumped to $2.

> What I was saying was that the price roughly doubled, and Joe said I

> was lying. I have his email proving that HE was lying, in his own

> words these are the prices. The price DID double once AA got involved.

> But somehow I lie.

[Eduardo]

Randy: Wake up and smell the coffee buddy, you're making an ass out of your self. I never noticed that big L in your forehead, is that a new tatoo?

 

I'm really sad for you saying all that crap about AA, but you know what? you're full of it, you ain't worth it anyway.

 

I want everyone to know that I never received one single cent nor anything from Randy for Doomzerk nor Cent2k, I never really expected anything but i didn't even had the chance to design the label nor a manual or nothing at all. At first maybe I was kinda flattered to see you liked my sloppy attempts to enhance those old games but after reading all that crap about AA I'm sick reading your comments Randy YOU SLIMEBALL!

 

I also know Randy that you're telling people you ain't in it for the cash, THAT'S BULLSHIT, you're prolly making some maybe not much but still that doesn't give you the right to STEAL other people's designs and it doesn't give you the right to LIE and it sure as hell doesn't give you the right to sell software that you DON'T OWN.

 

Get lost Randy.

[Xot]

Okay, a big huge light bulb just went on over my head.

 

I didn't get this before for some reason, but...

 

I was under the impression that people sent their hacks TO Randy, for inclusion on the page.

 

You're saying that for EVERY hack/homebrew he's got up, he just TOOK them, designed new labels and offered them up as a product without so much as e-mailing the author and saying "Hey, I'm putting your hack up on my site"???

 

Oh, man.

[Cupcakus]

Okay, a big huge light bulb just went on over my head.

 

I didn't get this before for some reason, but...

 

I was under the impression that people sent their hacks TO Randy, for inclusion on the page.

 

You're saying that for EVERY hack/homebrew he's got up, he just TOOK them, designed new labels and offered them up as a product without so much as e-mailing the author and saying "Hey, I'm putting your hack up on my site"???

 

Oh, man.

 

No he's not that sleazy :-) but close... Some games he did do that to... but he had most homebrewers permission. The issue is when the authors told him to stop producing their works, he said FU and continued to...

[Cupcakus]

Here is my response to Randy's post to the video games newsgroup...

 

 

 

 

 

Randy,

 

:-) OK... couple things dude...

 

1st, if you want to spew your guts to the public... whatever... but don't take me with you :-), You didn't even send this reply to me E-Mail... you just posted it here, (I don't even visit here) someone had to tell me you posted my private e-mails and the reply to said emails on this newsgroup.... That should not have happened...

 

2nd, I told AA I was going to go through you most likely for my homebrew order when the time came... and reading over the e-mails from AA I don't see anywhere they tried to convince me to use them... Albert just left it at that... I may be an exception, but that is my experience.

 

I understand you are upset about the current events that are transpiring but in the future, I would appreciate you keep our corrispondance between us and do not involve me in the greater scheme of things... I only wanted to know what was going on.

 

As for your problems with Joe, that's between you and him. If he doubled the price for PCB's.... so what? Don't buy them anymore... You are a smart guy, I have read some of the tech pages on your site... Download a cheapo CAD program and design your own PCB's... I never used PC board CAD program in my life until a couple weeks ago, and I already have a custom PCB for my flash carts ready to be made. In fact... make better ones! Make F8/F6/F4 boards and you will have a better product than AA has...

 

If Thomas wants to desperately sell his games on AA... Why? Why was he looking for an excuse to leave? Because AA was telling him lies about you? What lies? Someone just doesn't make that decision for no reason... maybe it's because AA has a nicer store, better labels, better manuals, better shipping boxes so he thought he would make more money... who knows???? Those hacks would not exist if he did not create them, and as such you owe the respect to him to not sell them without his permission...

 

Why would anyone want to go "Exclusive" I know for a fact AA does not give better money to authors for going exclusive to them... What is it you're not telling us Randy... Even though I had planned to have you manufacture the carts, the reason I wanted 200 was so I could sell them in both stores... Going exclusive cuts your exposure in half... That's bad buisness for the author... there has to be something else that would make Thomas and Joe make that sacrifice... What is it?

 

I am very sad you are closing shop... the public would not have even known about this at all, and it would have blown over if you had just removed the hacks... You have said time and time again you are not in it for the money, you are in it to further the homebrew effort... but your comments below do not reflect that...

 

I gave you the benefit of the doubt, I wanted to hear your side of the story, Thomas' side was "I said no, Randy did it anyway" pretty simple story, and easy to prove because I saw the web site... and even more interesting we all saw the dates those games were posted to your site when it was down this afternoon, and it was well after Thomas.

 

Thomas wanting to go AA exclusive, and a Pixels Past PCB price increase is no justification to undermine the morality of our community....

 

I'm not your enemy and I have not made my decisions lightly, I gave you your say... but I can't back you up... doing so would be the same as stating I condone your actions to exploit an authors effort, even if not copyrighted....

 

What if I had placed that order Randy?!?! when the 200 sold out, and it became a collector's item would you produce more without my permission and undermine my profits on the collectors market? We all work and live in a big world of trust here, and it is a very fragile titerope.. one stupid comment, or mistake can cause everyone to fall to their deaths... This utterly stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid issue has killed your credability. Even if Thomas and Joe are lying SOB's you still have to respect the morality of the community... you let us down Randy...

 

This affects EVERYONE, not just You, Thomas, Joe, and the Als... EVERYONE... We might start seeing homebrew authors not releasing their binaries to the public anymore... for fear someone is going to produce and sell their game without permission. I know I'll think twice about it.

 

I guess I'm now an AA exclusive seller myself :-) but it didn't ever have to be that way...

 

I feel sick...

 

--Chris Larkin

[MacGurl]

Strike 2 Xot..one more and yer out.

[Xot]

Strike 2 Xot..one more and yer out.

 

Huh?

[Alex]

We are truly sorry it has come to this. Like everyone else, we thought Randy was an honest person as well, and aside from an unwarranted verbal attack on another homebrewer, we had no reason to suspect that Randy would react to this whole situation the way he did. We will explain our side of the story in another post. For now, we will make a point by point rebuttal of Randy's post.

 

 

>well, I expected *someone* after 18 years worth of making games to

>stand up for me on AA. But no one has.

>

>This whole thing started because AA wanted to sell the XYPE games and

>cut me out of the loop. Most of the XYPE guys were very loyal to me,

>but Thomas was very disappointed. So AA got to work on Thomas. Thomas

>sends me this mail saying "AA has been telling me things about you,

>and don't bother defending yourself because I know you lie" In other

>words, AA couldn't get what they wanted out in the open so they started

>whispering in Thomas' ear.

 

We did indeed want to sell the Xype games, and it was them who initially approached us about the idea. However, we never wanted to cut Randy out of the loop. We stated this many times, that we only wanted to offer another outlet to buy games, and that we explicitly did not want people to stop selling with Randy. Hozer and AtariAge would be offering two slightly different products - ours with higher production values and higher prices, and We told Randy that we would be happy to continue to recommend people buy games from Hozer. There were other discussions that we had (internally) for AtariAge to help Hozer with business, but we never got to that point because Randy was against our selling the Xype games from the beginning.

 

The Xype authors approached us about selling their games, and (in a nutshell) Randy said he did not want us or anyone else selling them. Randy on many occasions stated that he was not pursuing any exclusive agreements (although that's exactly what he requested from the Xype authors) and when we found out he was doing so even beyond Xype, we did inform Thomas Jentsczh.

 

They had given Randy their loyalty, and part of the discussion involved Randy's claim that he was not seeking exclusive deals, which was not true, so we felt that Thomas should be aware of that fact. Thomas made his own independent investigation of the matter and verified our statements. Randy finally admitted this lie to Thomas. In the meantime, he had told Thomas some other lies involving the purchase of PCB's and AtariAge's role in their pricing. Lies he later referred to as "typos".

 

>The first "lie" was I claim that I have never demanded anyone be

>exclusive to me. They use Simon Q. as "proof" that I have. Simon has

>bad english - what he said was something like "I had no choice". The

>reality was he and I had made a deal that I was to sell his games

>once his stock 100 were gone. AA wanted to sell them, too, and Simon

>asked me about it I told him I thought it best he choose either them or

>me. In his own words - "I had no choice" means he wanted to go with me

>from the beginning. In other words, he was not wavering in his decision

>to go with me, not that I forced him. He was choosing me. That was his

>choice. I have had several emails and talks with him since then, there

>is no doubt that the choice was entirely his. But AA needed something

>to blow up to Thomas. So supposedly I lied. Since then, AA has

>asked many people to be exclusive to THEM. I suppose it's ok for them

>to do that since they never claimed they wouldn't. See how that works?

 

We realize that Simon's native language is not English, so before approaching Randy, we double checked the facts with Simon and he confirmed it for us. Thomas also checked with Simon and confirmed our story. Of course it was Simon's choice to sell through Randy, nobody put a gun to his head. However, Randy's deal was that if Hozer was going to sell it, nobody else could.

 

That in my book is an exclusive arrangement. It is fine for Randy to make exclusive deals, but when he does so and then lies about it so he will look good to other programmers, we take issue with that.

 

We have never asked any programmers to be exclusve to us. This is something that Randy has repeatedly claimed, yet he offers no proof. Where is your proof Randy? Several programmers have decided to drop you and sell through AtariAge, but it was their decision based on your actions, and we certainly don't have an exclusive arrangement with them. Anyone else is free to start selling homebrew carts and make deals with the Xype group or any other programmers.

 

>The other supposed lie is that I told Thomas the price of 4K boards

>doubled from $1 to $2 once AA became involved. I used to buy them from

>Joe directly. I mentioned that I used to get "50 at $1 and now it was

>$2" Joe said I was lying, that I never got 50 from him (actually,

>I have, and I have his e-mail to prove it) and that I never got them at

>$1. Well, I got them at like exactly $1.20 and the price jumped to $2.

> What I was saying was that the price roughly doubled, and Joe said I

>was lying. I have his email proving that HE was lying, in his own

>words these are the prices. The price DID double once AA got involved.

> But somehow I lie.

 

Randy, you never got 50 boards from Joe at $1 each or even $1.20 each. You know this. Joe has explained this in his post. This was something you repeatedly stated to Thomas, until it was finally shown that this was not true. You then recanted and said it was a "typo" and that you meant 500. Which is it this time?

 

>Thomas wanted desperately to sell his games on AA and wanted someone to

>blame for him to leave XYPE's rules of sticking together. Instead of

>being a man about it, he wanted to blame me. So because of these "just

>horrible lies" he felt he had to remove all of his games from me and

>move on over to AA. Now he's mad because I have been offering to sell

>copies of his "freely given" PAL/NTSC conversions, games that he himself

>did not write nor does he own. He's VERY angry at me, his mails to me

>are very bitter, cynical, insulting, and full of lies of his own, which

>I don't even bother to respond to anymore.

 

Like I said, Thomas made his own investigation and did not like what he found. You lied to us, you lied to Thomas, you called us liars without proof, and you called Joe a liar without proof. You personally insulted Thomas. You agreed not to sell his works, yet you continued to do so. When directly asked to remove them, you said no. What did you expect?

 

>That's the whole story. I am done. I would be delighted to make you

>carts, at a very cheap price. But as for Hozer Video, few have really

>given me a lot of support and it is very disappointing. I feel as if

>all that I have done for all these years makes no difference

>to anyone. So many people on AA are just jumping in the witch hunt and

>breathing all kinds of threats and such. I do not claim to have a

>perfect record, after 18 years I have made *plenty* of mistakes that an

>enemy could jump on, but I have always always always always tried to

>deal honestly with everyone, and I am better than that.

 

Everything could have been avoided if you hadn't tried to make deals with people and then lie about it. You have always claimed to be involved because you love the hobby, and that you would do anything you can to help anyone, at any time. Yet when you were approached about us selling some of the same games, you said no, and went after other exclusive deals and engaged in a campaign of lies. Not exactly the charitible image you portray.

 

I was always under the assumption that you had permission to sell all the hacks and homebrews on your site. Yet now people are coming out and saying that in many cases you just did it without asking. You have told people on many occasions that you could not pay them a royalty because you didn't make any money. Now, unless you are extremely inefficient about building cartridges that can't be true. You have told us that you know more about building cartridges than anyone else on the planet, so if we can figure it out how to do it in three months, you certainly must have figured it out after doing it for almost 10 years.

 

>Forgive me Chris, but I am posting this message to R.G.V.C so everyone

>can know the AA guys are greedy, Joe is a liar, and Thomas is just

>whatever Thomas is. He used to be a friend, and I was shocked when he

>accepted all AA said without talking to me first. Never did he say "hey

>Randy, I heard such and such, what can you tell me about it?" but right

>from when he decided to go to AA he has been very insulting.

>When I defend myself, somehow I am always the liar. Finally I also

>became very mad, and I sent him some rather choice emails. Joe just

>threatens me and threatens me. AA has removed every reference to Hozer

>Video from their web site. So be it.

 

You can say we are greedy Randy, that is your opinion. But calling us liars and making up lies about us without an ounce of proof we will not tolerate. Thomas did give you a chance to offer your side of the story and you lied to him. He found out the truth and was not happy.

 

We have not removed every reference to Hozer from our site, although we certainly cannot recommend his services any more and therefore removed most of them.

 

>I am taking Hozer Video down for good. I thought I had made a

>difference all these years, surely I have contributed heavily. But

>apparently a few well placed lies is all it takes to get a bunch of

>people turned against me. So long and thanks for all the fish. If

>anyone wants a nice stock of boards, carts, or even an eprom burner I

>know where these can be bought at some very reasonable prices.

 

That is your decision. You only have yourself to blame, Randy, don't try to pass that off on other people.

[StanJr]

I fail to see why Randy is closing up shop entirely if he is in the "right" here? What kind of defense is that?

[NE146]

You're saying that for EVERY hack/homebrew he's got up, he just TOOK them, designed new labels and offered them up as a product without so much as e-mailing the author and saying "Hey, I'm putting your hack up on my site"???

 

It's very interesting for me to hear all of this being discussed by everyone only now. Because I went through all of this 4 years ago and was pretty much alone.

 

And what you said above is exactly how it happened. Back when I'd NEVER heard of anyone else doing 2600 hacks (I thought I was the only one fanatical enough to do it), I meandered one day to Hozer's and surprise! There was my fun little project (done for the pure love of noodling around to get a 2600 game "the way I wanted it to be") being sold!

 

But what could I say? It was just a hack, and as everyone knows, we don't own these things. But it did seem odd to me that someone else was profiting off of it. Anyway, what I did is I wrote him. And the answer I got was that he wasn't making any profit from the games whatsoever, and was purely serving the very niche Atari Fanboy community. So... Well, it sounded logical so I took that at face value.

 

Anyway, it wasn't like I had too much at stake anyway. Just my 2 cents. But still, it was a total surprise.

 

 

<addendum>

Oh well. I never expected "anything" for hacking a 2600 game's graphics. It was just for fun! However, later on as better 2600 game editors (hello EDITGFX/SHOWGFX ) and everyone and their brother could make them.. I started seeing some peeps making some dedicated carts out of them and some cash. So maybe I should've got in some action eh?

[NorbytheRobot]

I just wanted to chime in with my opinion.

 

I have known both Albert and Alex for about a year know. It seems to me their primary goal has been to support the hobby. It wasn't until recently they even had a store, or sold anything, or have done anything to even pretend to make back the money they have invested into AtariAge.

 

I have played Atari games a long time and I have been collecting for about five years, I know Randy and Hozer have been a big part of the community.

 

So now, AtariAge has opened a store, they are selling games (including mine) they are making money, they are trying to get people to let them sell their games in the store. They are doing exactly what Randy has done all these years. It was inevitable that somebody would come along, it is a small market, but not that small. I think Randy is just worried about the cut into his business, as anyone would.

 

The thing here is, I know that Albert and Alex recognized the value, the history and the importance of Hozer Video to the Atari community as a whole. They have had their differences with Randy, but realized that it would do the community more harm then good than to draw a line and say ok, you are either with us or against us. Unfortunately Randy has chosen to draw that line.

 

This isn't about the PAL & NTSC conversions, this is about how as a community, we should conduct ourselves. Thomas presented his case in a very calm, clear manner. I am guessing he only went public as a last resort, he stated how he felt and why. He wanted others to make their own decisions and judge for themselves how serious the situation was. People seem to think that what Randy was doing wasn't right, so he should make a decision how he wants to do business, if he can't respect the opinion of the community, he probably should close Hozer.

 

Regards,

Billy

[Cupcakus]

I fail to see why Randy is closing up shop entirely if he is in the "right" here? What kind of defense is that?

 

'Cause he's not in the right :-) nothing he stated excuses the fact he ignored Thomas' request... nor did he refute any of the proof that Thomas came up with.... Randy closed up shop because he has to.. he cannot talk his way out of this one, and for the most part no one will buy from him anymore anyway...

 

Especially after Ken's lawyers get through with him :-) Too bad we'll probably never know what happens there.

[Cupcakus]

Oh and my attempt to get more info from Randy =

 

----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors -----

(reason: 550 hozervideo@charter.net unknown user account)

 

----- Transcript of session follows -----

... while talking to mx01.charter.net.:

>>> DATA

<<< 550 hozervideo@charter.net unknown user account

550 5.1.1 ... User unknown

<<< 503 no valid RCPT address specified

 

He's hiding so save your breath if you are trying to e-mail him...

[Alex]

But what could I say? It was just a hack, and as everyone knows, we don't own these things. But it did seem odd to me that someone else was profiting off of it. Anyway, what I did is I wrote him. And the answer I got was that he wasn't making any profit from the games whatsoever, and was purely serving the very niche Atari Fanboy community. So... Well, it sounded logical so I took that at face value.

 

Although of course we cannot prove whether Randy makes any profit or not, I highly doubt his claim. Randy has stated that most of his profit comes from prototype and rare game reproductions. Those games do not have royalty payements, they are just straight 4k/8k games. Hacks cost the same as prototypes to make, and he charges the same for them, so by his own admission most of his profit comes from the business model under which he sells the hacks.

 

I know he has told many people that he can't pay them a royalty becuase he doesn't make any moeny from it. Why did he fight us so much then? How does he profit from protos and not hacks?

[Eduardo]

I couldn't reach him either, maybe that's why.

 

You can run, but you can't hide!

 

And the Truth will set you Free.

[Rhindle The Red]

Well, this whole thing has gone into the crapper pretty quick, hasn't it?

 

As I said in my previous post, I (like NE146) really never felt I had any kind of moral right to stop him making my hacks. I was just put-off by his not asking first. At the time, in fact, I was more annoyed that carts of Return of Mario Bros. were being sold with one of those simplistic labels of his attached to them when I had a lovely design for them all ready that I was going to send him when I was ready to have carts made (but hadn't yet contacted him).

 

But finding out that full blown games like Cubicolor were being made without permission, that's a whole different deal. And lying about the Als and others is just beneath contempt. I was contacted not too long ago about having them sell Return of Mario Bros. and they were as nice as they could be. They wanted it to be part of the "Arcade" lineup they are working on and were very understanding and accepting when I said I wanted it to remain with the label art that I had designed specifically for it. If they were in this for money, I'm sure they would have pressured me to change my mind. (As in "our way or the highway" as seems is the case with Randy.) Countless stories from those who've dealt with the Als and those who've dealt with Randy make all too clear who's telling the truth here.

 

It's sad, in a way. It seems like Randy's house of cards has come tumbling down now and I can't say I feel bad. He's certainly burned his bridges and I guess a page in the history of Atari collecting has firmly turned.

 

The string is pulled back, the spear is released.

[mdoerty]

Folks, I would not celebrate too quickly. In fact, this might be a case of throwing the baby out with the bath water. Now there is one less source of carts and many older homebrew carts are suddenly "out of print" unless Randy has a change of heart and brings back Hozer.

 

Should Randy have dropped selling the conversions? Maybe.

But from correspondence with him, on items like that, he sees what he is doing as selling a service. That service is putting to cartridge an avaialble ROM.

 

The conversions were available on the Hacks page on this web site.

 

Someone has mentioned Cubicolor. That would fall under the same rubric using this business model. And that ROM is also on the Atari Age web site.

 

Someone mentioned Activision. It appears that Atari Age is about the only place that removed those ROMs. Other prominant Classic Gaming web sites still have those ROMs displayed. I will not name them to protect the innocent (and to prevent NARCing to Activision).

 

And if you are wondering about the model of selling "service," I have heard that from others before. It is the way that around selling something that you have no legal right to sell (or at least that is what is believed). And almost all 2600 hacks that are being sold fall into that category somewhat (including some on the Atari Age page).

 

That being said, Randy offered some games that I wonder how Randy got the ROM he listed. Obviously, he had very very good contacts, at least at one time.

 

I would like there to be a resolution. Most people here did too. But I don't think they wanted to create a monopoly situation.

 

Where am I now to go to get Pesco? Qb? Simon?

[Cupcakus]

AA will more than likely contact those authors and arrange an agreement to sell those titles here... be assured... Giving AA the monopoly is worse than the two buisnesses competing fairly, but if Randys morals were at the level explained here, good riddance... let another person step up and take on the roll...

[oesii]

AA will more than likely contact those authors and arrange an agreement to sell those titles here... be assured... Giving AA the monopoly is worse than the two buisnesses competing fairly, but if Randys morals were at the level explained here, good riddance... let another person step up and take on the roll...

 

I'm with you, so it may be a hassle not to be able to get QB or Pesco immediately but why make a deal with a dishonest seller just to get what you want short-term. Long-term, AA or the homebrew guys will sort it out.