The sad story about my Atari 2600 TV format conversions

[StanJr]

I've seen this kind of thing before. There used to be a little something called the "Comics Code Authority" and all it really did WAS add extra bureaucracy to the whole comic industry for about 30 years.

 

I'm not entirely sure the HB community needs something like this. I mean, what is the punishment for breaking this code? And who enforces it? I think that decent, honest people have no need for a code of this sort. Good business is good business, bad business does not stay in business very long.

[Inky]

Good business is good business, bad business does not stay in business very long.

 

Have you become a capitalist without telling me?

 

[Bill Lange]

A written code of conduct is a great idea, and I would be willing to draft one given suggestions from the community.

 

I really don't think that a code of conduct is needed in this small community even though it spans the globe. We've aready seen what happens when members of this community don't repect each other. In the last few months both Hozer and Junie Creations closed up shop because the members of this community discussed what was going on. Within a few days, things take care of themselves once word gets around. No bureaucracy needed!

 

WRL

[Albert]

Within a few days, things take care of themselves once word gets around. No bureaucracy needed!

 

I think the best example of this was the whole AirWorld Scam a while back.

 

..Al

[Cupcakus]

I think a major problem is we're not always dealing with honest and trustworthy people anymore. That has become obvious when this situation can happen to one of the founding members of the homebrew community. Such a code is not enforceable however, and as such probably not worth it.

[sku_u]

I think these message boards are a good way to warn people of potential rip offs. I've only been a member of these forums for a few months. In that time, I've personally seen people give the heads up on lousy ebayers in the ebay forum, bad businesses like best buy in the marketplace forum, and private smaller dealers in the 2600 forum.

 

The set up of business links at this site works pretty well as you can cast a rating on any company listed there.

[ventrra]

We do plan to offer one-off custom cartridges for people that make their own hacks or demos and want them on a cart, but the games don't necessarily have the appeal to produce widely and sell in the store.

 

This is a good thing for me. If Randy is really out of the picture, there's no other way I would have been likely to get the remains of my hacks made into real carts.

 

This whole situation is really kind of frustrating since it really wasn't very long ago that I began dealing with Hozer Video. I hadn't had any serious problems with him at all.

 

On another note: It's interesting what can be learned during this discussion. Until Crackers mentioned it, I hadn't realized that any game for the 2600 had any kind of protection.

[Bill Lange]

I think the best example of this was the whole AirWorld Scam a while back.

 

 

This may be true, but I still don't get the " ... free eggs ... " joke. Must be my Jersey sense of humor.

 

WRL

[NE146]

Obviously from the response to this thread, I must be the only Atari freak who hasn't bought a new Atari cart in 20 years or so

 

You guys are some active consumers!

[MattyXB]

I have now read the most part of this thread and I am shocked about this.

I have only some Hozer games from some eBay auctions, but never buy anything from Hozer direct. But I have think about it to do so in the future. I have think to buy some homebrews and some Rare Prototype reproductions. But now I think, I will nothing buy there and the site is too down. Its sad, that this all end so.

 

 

I've got two things to say here:

 

1.

I don't think I'll ever be able to play the Intellivision Production games now

 

I talked to the Intellivision productions guys at CGE and they said if they could get enough people interested (50 or more I think) they would consider doing another run of Sea Battle and Swordfight. Steamroller was another issue entierly, something about production difficulties. So you may still have a chance.

 

Tempest

 

I want these 2 games too. So count me in, if you will ask them to make a new run from that games.

[rolenta]

At the very moment everybody who is selling my stuff (except AA and Jah Fish) is doing this without my permission

 

Is Jah Fish selling your stuff? You couldn't tell looking at my mailbox. Still waiting for my damn Thrust+!!!!

[MattyXB]

Is Jah Fish selling your stuff? You couldn't tell looking at my mailbox. Still waiting for my damn Thrust+!!!!

 

I think Jah Fish is only selling Thrust +. I have not hear, that he selling other games from Thomas.

[Nostalgic]

I've been monitoring this for the past couple of days now. It's really a sad thing to see.

 

One of the best parts of the experiences I had in making Euchre was the fantastic support I got from the Atari community. Fellow programmers on the Stella mailing list offered their help and advice on numerous occasions. (Without Andrew and Thomas, Euchre would never have been finished, or would at best have been a bloated 8K cart.) Readers of AtariAge offered comments about the game and performed some testing. I've gotten e-mails from people who were enthusiastic about the game before its release and thanking me for creating it after they got it. Randy was very helpful in getting everything together for manufacturing the cart - he put me in touch with David Exton to have the label made, he sent me the labels themselves to sign, and he printed the longest Hozer manual ever, all in a timely and friendly manner. Al from AtariAge was great about posting updates to the forums and to the Euchre in-development and finished-game pages.

 

I'm sorry to see that such a wonderful community has such a large rift in it now.

[+Nathan Strum]

Obviously from the response to this thread, I must be the only Atari freak who hasn't bought a new Atari cart in 20 years or so

 

Nope, you aren't. The last 2600 cart I bought was probably in '84 or so. (I'm not counting my 7800 and Lynx stuff, which of course didn't exist 20 years or so ago. )

 

There was one exception though - I bought the Stella Gets a New Brain CD and a copy of Color Bar Generator from Hozer (as well as several copies of the Stella at 20 video). I'd been aware of his site for some time, and had prompt service and quick replies to my e-mails from him. I can't speak for his dealings with authors, but as strictly a customer, I was glad for the opportunity to buy stuff I simply couldn't get anywhere else. I'm sorry to see that go away.

 

Having said that, I wholeheartedly agree that he really should respect the wishes of anyone's work he sells. Whether an original or derivative work, if someone asks you not to distribute that work in a certain way, that should be respected. Even if that work is freely available elsewhere.

 

An example of this is the release of the arcade ROM "Robby Roto". According to this statement by Jay Fenton (the owner of the copyright), the ROM is available for free, non-commercial duplication, and use by MAME users. So just because the ROM is available for free, does not mean that someone else can appropriate it, and sell it on any sort of media for any amount of money - whether they make a profit from it or not. Additionally, this does not put it into the realm of public domain. Jay still holds the copyright to it, and can rescind that distribution license at any time.

 

That should, of course, apply to anyone authoring an original game. Out of common courtesy, it should also apply to people making hacks or conversions, because they are investing time and code into making something that wouldn't otherwise exist.

 

I would hope that Randy would take a little time off, take a deep breath or two, and return to making cartridges with the wishes of the authors firmly in mind (including, of course, Activision). If that means non-exclusive production rights and paying royalties to any authors that requested it, that shouldn't really be an issue if he was truly doing it for the reason he stated - making games that would otherwise be difficult/impossible to acquire.

 

If that was indeed the case, the situation is ugly, but not irreparable. Time heals all wounds. (Except decapitations. Those don't heal so well.)

 

If he was just in it for profit or ego, then nothing will change, unless his underlying motivation does.

 

That's my 25¢.

[Cupcakus]

Sorry to keep this awfull thread alive, but the conversation continues outside of AA on RGVC, and I think everyone should still know what's going on...

 

Here is a portion of Chrisr's last post to RGVC

 

Thomas, I think you misunderstood me. I am not refering to the people

in the forums and r.g.v.c. taking your back... I'm talking about the

people validating your story. I also have no reason to doubt their

integrity and I am not suggesting that you or others are deliberately

misleading everyone. The problem is, is that it is very difficult to

take an objective view when you are involved. The other problem is

that Randy has a very good reputation that has now been tarnished.

There will always be a lingering doubt about him. Perhaps I missed it

(I can be absent minded alot:), but I don't seem to recall any proof

of any of the events leading up to the parting of ways between (AA +

You) and Randy. The incident with you is not the only thing being

discussed you know. It's a shame, this guy really does do a good

service to the community... I'm sure he makes a few bucks, but they

are well deserved. Now his rep has been damaged, by events that

havn't been verified.

[MegaManFan]

Now his rep has been damaged, by events that

havn't been verified.

 

Except the events HAVE been verified though, by all the people who have dealt with Randy that posted their bad experiences in this thread. Sheesh, are they ALL lying? Is it a "get Randy conspiracy" of some sort? Bah. There's a far more logical explanation - they're all telling the truth and Randy is full of shit. Case closed.

[Cupcakus]

Here is my reply to said post (cussing edited)

 

Chrisr,

 

Oh My God!!!!!! You're ignorance multiplies with every post... Why

can't you get it though your thick head dude....

 

>I'm talking about the people validating your story.

 

We shouldn't be validating a proven truthful story??? The evidence HAS

been presented... do your research.

 

>The problem is, is that it is very difficult to take an objective

view

>when you are involved.

 

Odd... why is that Chris? Do YOU HAVE PROOF that Thomas did something

that would damage his credibility such that you cannot take an

objective view when he is involved? If so you havn't even presented a

shred of it so far. Nor can you prove your little AA conspiracy you

talk about... You blab about proof, yet you make lame excuses and

accusations at AtariAge conspiring to bring this all about. Practice

what you preach!!!

 

>Perhaps I missed it

> (I can be absent minded alot:), but I don't seem to recall any proof

> of any of the events leading up to the parting of ways between (AA +

> You) and Randy.

 

This doesent even ******* matter!!!!! Why do you keep bringing up this

****. Who cares why Randy and Thomas parted ways, it's not even

important. What the hell does this have to do with Randy selling

Thomas' conversions after Thomas asked him to stop. If I interpret

this correctly, Thomas has to have a valid reason to leave Hozer or

Randy is justified to screw him... Gimme a break.

 

> The incident with you is not the only thing being

> discussed you know. It's a shame, this guy really does do a good

> service to the community...

 

Randy did a fantastic service for the community, but he shafted some

people for his own personal gain (or to prevent losing personal

gain)... and that is unnacceptable.

 

>Now his rep has been damaged, by events that

> havn't been verified.

 

HAVN'T BEEN VERIFIED!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?! Oh man! put the crack pipe away

man... Thomas posted his original thread three days ago stating he has

asked an unknown person to remove his works from his web site, and

that person has refused to do so. The thread was a last warning for

things to come. Now lets assume Thomas was lying and he never really

asked Hozer that at all... after all he has not shown any evidence to

the fact that he has. Does the post not constitue being asked? Maybe

Randy doesn't check AA and didn't read it... then it is an honest

mistake, Randy can remove the conversions and life can go on... but he

buried his head in the sand instead. Randy removes the index.html

pages from his web site for a few hours before it went down. Giving

the public clear view of his web site's directories and file

structure. The web pages containing the products in question were

shown to be uploaded and/or modified on a date AFTER Thomas had asked

Randy to stop.

 

What more proof do you need? Put away the drugs, stop halucinating

about conspiracies and stupid issues, and stick to the topic at hand.

 

Randy used Thomas' work without his permission... which is immoral,

dissrepectfull, and out right ******* up. I don't know why your

ignorant posts make me so angry...

 

I'm done :-)

 

--Chris Larkin

 

Oh, and I wouldn't trust you with my cat either.. ha ha ha! Sorry...

but that WAS a funny comment :-)

[sku_u]

Cupcakus: If this guy keeps shooting his mouth off, just ignore him. He's looking to add fuel to the fire...that's all. I don't think AA has anything to worry about from any outside posts. Take a look at the size of this community and how many people with a great deal of influence belong to and support it.

 

On an aside, it would be nice if Hozer went back on line without the hacks. I still don't understand why he's so pissed given how many other ROMs he had available that AA never intended to add to their site. A little competition is a good thing My guess is that his site will be up in a few weeks after he feels he's been sufficiantly matryred. If not, I'm sure someone else will fill the void if there's enough of a demand.

[Cupcakus]

You're right... but ignorance can anger me for some reason... :-) He has posted a great deal of stuff... but this one had to be responded to :-) at least IMO I can only ignore so much :-)

[sku_u]

You're right... but ignorance can anger me for some reason... :-) He has posted a great deal of stuff... but this one had to be responded to :-) at least IMO I can only ignore so much :-)

 

You have a very good point. Ignorance is a very dangerous thing. IMHO with very few exceptions, everyone's made every attempt to be as level headed as possible within this thread. Hopefully this will all blow over soon.

[Inky]

You're right... but ignorance can anger me for some reason... :-) He has posted a great deal of stuff... but this one had to be responded to :-) at least IMO I can only ignore so much :-)

 

As I like to say...

 

People are stupid. I should know. I'm a people.

[SS]

he'd have to close anyway, since Activision is probably suing his butt off

 

Well he was offering them for sale. I can't imagine that there are many people looking for copies of Activision titles. Would he still be in hot water if none were actually sold?

[mdoerty]

It seems some people thought my call for a code of conduct was for some sort of binding bureaucracy. I really just thought it was some good words to live buy. I am not suggesting we create a religion, only a theology.

 

Item 2 causes some confusion. I guess I was also thinking of one-off services for individuals who might want a copy of hack or an old PD Game. But certainly special orders would have to take time. Maybe that is something that can be worked out.

 

As for fear of releasing the ROM, I would not be so afraid. After the initial rush is over with, it would be good to release it (if not simultaneously) so that everyone can enjoy the game. (And to be honest, it will get out there. If I spoke French, I could probably find every ROM I wanted on line. And even my unskilled hands found every Activision 2600 ROM in less than 30 minutes after they were removed here.)

 

That is what it is all about -- isn't it. Having fun ! Too many people seem to be thinking of this as a religion - something to die for. This is not something that should be taken too seriously, at least in my opinion. I doubt anyone is earning a living today writing Atari 2600 games. It is supposed ot be fun. Occasionally rewarding, even financially. But still fun.

 

One of the things that was nice about Hozer was that it made fun available. The same thing with ROM releases. I am not saying that Hozer's business practices were 100 percent correct becuase there aren't that many businesses you can say that about and because there are reports herein to the contrary and I believe that there is something to them. But he did allow for fun. And so do ROM releases.

 

Thus, I guess my reason for the Code of Conduct proposal and for this email message is for the Homebrew community to not forget the gameplayers out there. Anyone realizes that you have a stake in your game. But at the same time, after a while, you should do like Thomas does (and most other programmers do) and give a gift to the community. While there is no obligation to do so, it would be a nice thing to do. And nice is something that appears to be on very short supply right now.

[SS]

Obviously from the response to this thread, I must be the only Atari freak who hasn't bought a new Atari cart in 20 years or so

 

I would think so. I, for one, am SHOCKED by your appalling behavior!

 

Wait, I thought that you did buy a Cuttle Cart though. That would count as a new cart purchase, wouldn’t it?

 

 

You guys are some active consumers!

 

Hey, the President himself told us that spending by the average consumer would help to prop up the struggling economy. We’re just doing our patriotic duty here! So how come you’re not buying? Whatta ya, some kinda Pinko?!?

[NE146]

Wait, I thought that you did buy a Cuttle Cart though.  That would count as a new cart purchase, wouldn’t it?

yeah yeah yeah

 

So how come you’re not buying?  Whatta ya, some kinda Pinko?!?

 

Well I guess I CAN'T now that Hozer shut down. Imho this whole thing that's just unfolded is just a bad scene on all fronts Which is unfortunate because at the very least, I WAS thinking about picking up one of my little hacks from him eventually... but then again I've been saying that for the past 3-4 years (why oh why didn't he just send me a free cart?!?) But the bottom line is, in my experience aside from the initial surprise, I really didn't have a problem with Hozer. But then again I've never ordered anything from him (nor anyone else)

 

Quite honestly, I don't know. There are a lot of great games being released now for the 2600 recently.. I guess I've just felt its just too much of a hassle for me to fork out good cash to either AA or Hozer. And yeah, I'm sure the Cuttle Cart had a lot to do with my laziness as well. But it was just nice to know that that option was THERE you know what I'm saying?

 

It's just unfortunate...