Albert Posted December 12, 2002 Share Posted December 12, 2002 Well I guess I CAN'T We will gladly create any one-off carts for authors of homebrews, hacks, conversions, demos, etc. ..Al Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moycon Posted December 12, 2002 Share Posted December 12, 2002 What would the charge for this be? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Posted December 12, 2002 Share Posted December 12, 2002 What would the charge for this be? $10 for a 4K cart, $20 for an 8K+ cart. ..Al Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moycon Posted December 12, 2002 Share Posted December 12, 2002 Let me ask this. What if you had permission to sell a game. Say LOTR: Text game from the author. Could you sell it to just anyone....like me. Even if you didn't offer it in the AA store??? And if so...Is there a way people can give their permission? Email I guess. And maybe have a page of games that are OK to copy for others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Posted December 12, 2002 Share Posted December 12, 2002 Let me ask this. What if you had permission to sell a game. Say LOTR: Text game from the author. Could you sell it to just anyone....like me. Even if you didn't offer it in the AA store??? And if so...Is there a way people can give their permission? Email I guess. And maybe have a page of games that are OK to copy for others. Sure, as long as we have an arrangement witih the author to reproduce the game. Ideally we would like to create nice labels (and manuals where applicable) for these games, but if you've got to have it in cartridge form Right Now, I'm not going to get in your way. I will write Adam Thornton and ask if he will allow us to sell this game. ..Al Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moycon Posted December 12, 2002 Share Posted December 12, 2002 Sorry for all the questions/comments ...But I have more. I can wait if ultimately this is the plan. In other words if you think in the future this and other games will be available , done with the lables etc... I can wait. There are other games I plan to buy in the mean time. Like I said, I like checking the store every now and again and seeing the "new" products. And that lable looks sweet. Do the authors get a commission? I think this would be a good thing and wouldn't even mind kicking in a little more for their time and effort. Also in the future for folks on a budget would there be an option to get a game without extras, (lables,docs etc.).. I know some folks don't care about that and just want the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Posted December 12, 2002 Share Posted December 12, 2002 I can wait if ultimately this is the plan. In other words if you think in the future this and other games will be available , done with the lables etc... I can wait. There are other games I plan to buy in the mean time. Yes, the plan is to create unique and compelling labels and manuals for homebrew games, hacks and conversions. Most hacks and conversions will only have labels, so those are easier to contend with (it takes a lot of time to create a really slick manual). We will try and add new games as quickly as we can, especially if there is no other source for these games. Like I said, I like checking the store every now and again and seeing the "new" products. And that lable looks sweet. The new store will be online very shortly (tomorrow!), and it will be much easier to see new products as they are added. We will also be able to list games that are coming soon, so you'll have a good idea of what we're working on. Do the authors get a commission? I think this would be a good thing and wouldn't even mind kicking in a little more for their time and effort. In general, yes. For homebrew games, it's a pretty safe bet that royalties of some type are being paid. For hacks and conversions, it differs by game and by author. This is reflected in the price of the game. Also in the future for folks on a budget would there be an option to get a game without extras, (lables,docs etc.).. I know some folks don't care about that and just want the game. One-off carts will probably with without labels and docs (or will have some generic label). Whether we make cheaper versions of games that are already in our store available without labels/docs/box is not something we've given thought to, yet. ..Al Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moycon Posted December 12, 2002 Share Posted December 12, 2002 One other cool idea to maybe give thought to. Would it be possible, like say I wanted a cart right now. Could I design one, email it too you and have it printed up?? (for a fee of course) Also who is designing the lables? Some folks here on the boards make some great ones. It would be cool, although I don't know if possible, to have people submit lables for these games and hacks, that the original person who did the work might not want to mess with but don't mind someone else taking the time to do. The lables could be posted somewhere and the person buying the game could choose what lable to have printed. Of course this would rely on you printing the lables off one at a time when someone orders, which I don't know if you do. Still. Sounds cool. And to have a lable you designed...Well who doesn't want that!! Looking forward to the new store, Man with all the questions and comments I'd better order some stuff hu? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curt Vendel Posted December 12, 2002 Share Posted December 12, 2002 Moycon, When is "Deli Invaders 2: Maury Amsterdam's Revenge" going to be hacked and released? Curt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inky Posted December 12, 2002 Share Posted December 12, 2002 Moycon, When is "Deli Invaders 2: Maury Amsterdam's Revenge" going to be hacked and released? Curt That would have to be Deli Invaders 3, as 2 has been done... DeliInvaders 1 and 2:Stan's revenge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gavv Posted December 12, 2002 Share Posted December 12, 2002 Moycon, When is "Deli Invaders 2: Maury Amsterdam's Revenge" going to be hacked and released? Curt I'd buy that just for the title ^o^, and whether or not Rose Marie is an unlockable character gavv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccc--- Posted December 12, 2002 Share Posted December 12, 2002 A late jump on this thread, but now after reading the whole thread which cost me an hour I still would like to drop my 2 cents here. Fifth of all, about programmer and profit, how many of those $45 "specials" we found the proto and are releasing it at this show or on this web site deals do you think give money back to the original programmer? That's a point. How can I be sure when I buy a new released former prototype with box + docs for $45, that the producer/seller of this game has all the rights? Isn't it relatively easy to take a ROM, make 250 carts, boxes and docs that cost, let's say $25 for each copy, and make $20 x 250 = $5000 easily ... Don't get me wrong, I am sure there are loyal and honest people out there, but all that case has left a VERY BAD taste on the community of classic gaming fans. Back in the early 90s when I discovered again the games of my youth it was a hobby, today it seems to be more and more a business. Randy may not sell Thomas' homebrews when Thomas wants him to stop - no doubt. But it's harder to tell with hacks imho. I am not at all interested in any hacks, I would never buy one because hacks have no value for me. But when someone hacks a game and doesn't have any rights on the game, I think it should only be done for fun or to help the community. Noone except for the legal owner of the game code may sell it with profit imho. I think that the AA guys are good guys, but the world doesn't work in the way that there are only 100% good and 100% bad people. All of us are somewhere in between. Whom in the classic gaming community should I trust in the future? The closedown of Hozer is not good, it has left a gap and as any other "business" this one needs competition. Again don't get me wrong. I am not on his side, but I am not on any other side too. I am just a "neutral" collector and from a collector's point of view, as I said, it leaves a very bad taste ... Dieter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MagMax667 Posted December 12, 2002 Share Posted December 12, 2002 This whole thing is very unfortunate. I only dealt with Randy for the first time earlier this year and had great service. On his site, he said that the carts usually take 5-6 weeks to come, but mine arrived in a week and a half. Now that I think about it, I have noticed that once the Atari Age store started, Hozer began to get more compeditive. First he started with the glossy labels, then came the Xype Thrift Bag Giveaway, and before he shut down his site he said that he would start offering boxes for all his games. To me, Randy seemed very jealous of Atari Age. For all these years, Randy was the only person manufacturing Atari carts, and when AA came along and everyone started buying from them, he got angry. I guess with all that power in the homebrew community, he sort of became corrupt. And you know what they say, "Power corrupts. Exclusive power corrupts exclusively." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curt Vendel Posted December 12, 2002 Share Posted December 12, 2002 The game has to have Gumby from Saturday Night live running around the screen being chased by a mini Maury Amderstam "sammich's" shooting pickles at Gumby who needs to get the jar of mustard, then the "boss" comes out: Fullsized "sammich", complete with olive.... Gumby must "smat" enough mustard onto Maury to stop his reign of terror over the deli patrons and free the inncoent deli meats from there oppression.... So who's gonna program this and make it available? Curt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Posted December 12, 2002 Share Posted December 12, 2002 The closedown of Hozer is not good, it has left a gap and as any other "business" this one needs competition. Quite a few people have now mentioned that the community is worse off because there will be no "competition" in cartridge manufacturing. While I agree that competition is a good thing, it seems that people are forgetting that Hozer pretty much had *no competition* for the entire time he was making and selling games. There was a brief period when Junies was making 2600 cartridges, but that was pretty much it until we came along in September and started making games ourselves. And for those who may need a reminder, have a look at how Randy reacted when Junies came onto the scene a year ago. For all of Randy's talk about embracing competition, his attitude towards Junies (even when he apologized!) and towards us speak volumes. So please, it's not like there hasn't been a monopoly in this hobby for a long time already. ..Al Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fsuinnc Posted December 12, 2002 Share Posted December 12, 2002 I have bought many carts from HozerVideo. I have never met Randy except through email but he has always been very nice and helpful when I requested carts of my hacks and all of my orders have been sent to me quickly and arrived in great shape. When he started creating the new 'shiny' labels he even sent me one for each of the games I had previously ordered (if a new label was available) and sent me an end label for my Qb cart that I bought at PhillyClassic 2001 since I never got one from the Author (don't take that as a complaint). I think that if someone writes a game and doesn't want Randy to sell it they have the right to ask and Randy should comply. However, It seems to me that one of the great things about HozerVideo is that you can get Cart versions of any game you want. Old and new and I don't think that at $11 Randy is making any money (considering the time he spends). I am a big fan of all you programmers that are writing games for the A2600 and I hope the trend continues. The games being produced are as good and usually better than those made in the 80's. AND I beleive all the things posted in this thread previously, I have just had good experiences with Hozer. <Now for the part ouy won't like> If you take an existing game ROM and alter it from PAL to NTSC I'm not sure (legally) you have much grounds for complaints. You have in fact modified copyrighted material and called it your own. In the long run I don't believe this is entirly ethical in and of itself. If you translate a book from one language to another you do not inherit the copyright to the book. I am all in favor of the PAL to NTSC conversions. I suspect that you do this because you want to share with the atari community. I think this is really Randy's only goal as well. Let's keep it friendly, ask Randy to remove the stuff and if he doesn't let's move on. If people feel he is in the wrong (as I do in this case) they can choose not to deal with him. I await your flames. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Slocum Posted December 12, 2002 Share Posted December 12, 2002 Ugh. I forgot about that Junie thing. He totally went off on Junie without checking his facts first. In my book, that was actually the first in a long list a strikes against Randy. You just have to keep cool and think when you're communicating on the net, and Randy seems to sometimes completely lose the ability to do that. I have no idea why he would shut his whole site down over this. It's like first he said FU to Thomas when Thomas said he was wrong, and then he said FU to the whole community when they said he was wrong. There are a million ways Randy could have handled this better. Many homebrewers are capable of making their own carts so Randy really was never the exclusive maker of carts . And there wasn't much disadvantage to doing it yourself except that you have to do the work. I did the first Synthcarts and Testcarts myself partly because at the time, I wasn't satisfied with Randy's label or manual quality. Bob Colbert, Joe Grand, Blue Sky, Ebivision, and several others have produced their own carts. -Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jentzsch Posted December 12, 2002 Author Share Posted December 12, 2002 Let's keep it friendly, ask Randy to remove the stuff and if he doesn't let's move on. If people feel he is in the wrong (as I do in this case) they can choose not to deal with him. I await your flames. No flames, but isn't that excactly what I did? I politely asked Randy to remove them and when he refused I told the people and let them decide. I was never asking for anything, just telling the story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccc--- Posted December 12, 2002 Share Posted December 12, 2002 So please, it's not like there hasn't been a monopoly in this hobby for a long time already. That's true and I appreciated it when AA came into the "business" as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sku_u Posted December 12, 2002 Share Posted December 12, 2002 Hozervideo hasn't been the only producer of ROM carts for a long time. I can think of AT LEAST three other sources for obtaining these types of cart. What made Hozer good was the price and quality, not the originality of the service. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Posted December 12, 2002 Share Posted December 12, 2002 Hozervideo hasn't been the only producer of ROM carts for a long time. I can think of AT LEAST three other sources for obtaining these types of cart. What made Hozer good was the price and quality, not the originality of the service. Okay, let me explain a bit further. Hozer has been the primary source of 2600 cart building on the net for many years. Yes, I understand many individuals have made their own carts, but pretty much anytime someone asked, "Where can I get my carts made?" they were almost always pointed to Hozer. Heck, even the Stella charter encourages homebrew authors to use Hozer and to be wary of anyone else offering this service. Randy did, unquestionably, produce more 2600 carts than anyone else, by far. He also had a website advertising this service. Besides the brief existance of Junies, and now our arrival on the scene, who else was doing this? Hozer's prices certainly were reasonable, but I don't want to argue the quality aspect since that's more subjective. ..Al Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cupcakus Posted December 12, 2002 Share Posted December 12, 2002 The Junies thread was a good dig. It's interesting to see previous history of Randy's reaction to competition. Even though his predictions of Junies were close to accurate... he comes off with crazy accusations out of no where... and wonders why he upsets people so much they want to leave his store. Junies proved to be a less than desireable place to do buisness with, which hurt the community even more I think than this incident. Stealing TV conversions is unethical, but stealing money and property is criminal! I hope everyone recovers from this incident, and we can all move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Stilphen Posted December 12, 2002 Share Posted December 12, 2002 Hozer's prices certainly were reasonable, but I don't want to argue the quality aspect since that's more subjective. ..Al Alex may Hozer and AtariAge would be offering two slightly different products - ours with higher production values and higher prices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie_ Posted December 12, 2002 Share Posted December 12, 2002 I agree with what Tempest said on page 5 of this thread. Also, after reading his reaction to Junies it's clear he just doesn't like other people doing what he does. Wow, it's actualy childish. Charlie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inky Posted December 12, 2002 Share Posted December 12, 2002 As has been said many times, the reaction he took by closing his store is similar to.. 'If I can't be quarterback, I'm taking my ball and going home.' I really wish he would do the right thing, but I'm not going to belabor it any more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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