Bryan Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 (edited) I know there are some who are getting fed up with the level of confrontation sometimes displayed here. As a coder, I would like to see as many other coders as possible find AA a useful resource for ideas and information, regardless of their background and preferences. As a user, I'd like to see friendly and lively conversation regarding our "antiques". However, if we take this hobby stuff completely seriously and personally then we'll end up driving off the people with the most to contribute and we'll be left with a tiny, contentious clique. My most liberating day in this hobby was when I decided that no one who cares about retro technology should be my enemy. Edited January 11, 2011 by Bryan 22 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Stephen Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 Agreed. I remember a few years back, 2600 legend Rob Fulop showed up. He offered to release a WIP of a game he did in the early 80s. He was sadly driven away by tons of people begging him to finish it, after it was clearly stated he had neither the time or desire to do so. As usual the attitudes flared, and I'm sure he never looked back. I also would like to see as many coders here as possible, since there is absolutely nobody local to me who still shows any interest in these old machines. My brother & I both work in IT, but he makes fun of me on a regular basis for "wasting my time" on such an old "useless piece of crap". I guess I like the challenge. I have fond memories of playground arguments, staunchly defending my A8 over the Apple IIs and C64s. That being said, 28 years have passed and I simply cannot fathom the idea of getting into a fight because my 30 year old antique can't display as many colors as your 29 year old antique. I also missed out on a pretty big piece of computing history because of being a fanboy. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
svenski Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 I know there are some who are getting fed up with the level of confrontation sometimes displayed here. As a coder, I would like to see as many other coders as possible find AA a useful resource for ideas and information, regardless of their background and preferences. As a user, I'd like to see friendly and lively conversation regarding our "antiques". However, if we take this hobby stuff completely seriously and personally then we'll end up driving off the people with the most to contribute and we'll be left with a tiny, contentious clique. My most liberating day in this hobby was when I decided that no one who cares about retro technology should be my enemy. We can all debate and we all have our own ideas and preconceptions and that is a good thing. Also it is great that people have gone to great lengths to preserve history and sort out facts from fiction but people shouldn't be spoken down to just because they thought Zap! was a good read - as an example. The infamous joystick thread is another example of something going too far. I do enjoy AA and the 8-bit forum and I'm grateful to everyone who has helped me here. So, I'm sure me and Bryan have probably disagreed on a fair few things up to now but I do agree with this topic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 (edited) It strikes me that it's usually the most innocuous subject matter which descends into arguments and flame wars. It's like some friendly debate in the pub which ends up turning into a fight. It must be terrible to have nothing better to do than watch lengthy topics for the opportunity to hijack them and turn them into fanboy jousting tournaments or slanging matches. Personally, I enjoy reading through most of the topics on this forum, but unless I can make some kind of informed contribution, I usually (try to) keep my mouth shut. Being a coder, I have better things to do than get banned because of a joystick. Edited January 11, 2011 by flashjazzcat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Random Terrain Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 Being a coder . . . Time for an argument to start about who can be called a coder. ASM coder: "BASIC is for boobs!" Bumbling BASIC user: "Mmm boobs. I like boobs. What were we talking about again?" ASM coder: "*sigh*" 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carmel_andrews Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 BASIC is a sexy language RT, you can program in it, you can't program BOOBS As for assembly language (aka ML/MC)....that is something only aliens speak Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Posted January 11, 2011 Author Share Posted January 11, 2011 More like: ASM coder: (motions to bikini-clad hotties surrounding him) "Now these are boobs!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 ...you can't program BOOBS That's about the only drawback with boobs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Stephen Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 BASIC is a sexy language RT, you can program in it, you can't program BOOBS As for assembly language (aka ML/MC)....that is something only aliens speak Hey - I'm no alien I definitely like boobs more than BASIC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteD Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 The question is, do you like your boobs big and heavy or small and fast? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Stephen Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 The question is, do you like your boobs big and heavy or small and fast? LOL - small and fast. I can sum it all up in one word - GRAVITY. The little ones never sag. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Posted January 11, 2011 Author Share Posted January 11, 2011 I'm really trying to make a language acronym out of BOOBS... something Object Oriented something... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 (edited) The question is, do you like your boobs big and heavy or small and fast? Big and heavy. Small and fast are adjectives for my code. Binary Object Oriented Boob Syntax Edited January 11, 2011 by flashjazzcat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Posted January 11, 2011 Author Share Posted January 11, 2011 The question is, do you like your boobs big and heavy or small and fast? Big and heavy. Small and fast are adjectives for my code. As long as they're not adjectives for you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 The question is, do you like your boobs big and heavy or small and fast? Big and heavy. Small and fast are adjectives for my code. As long as they're not adjectives for you! LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Posted January 11, 2011 Author Share Posted January 11, 2011 (edited) 10 BOOBS=BOOBS+2:GOTO 10 Now, why did RT do that? He knows we've all got ADD! Edited January 11, 2011 by Bryan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteD Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 10 BOOBS=BOOBS+2:GOTO 10 You forgot the error checking. IF BOOBS > HANDFUL You don't want an overflow happening now, do you? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gradualore Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 (edited) I just got here so my virgin eyes haven't seen any of the flame wars you've mentioned. As far as I'm concerned, everyone here is awesome for being into ridiculously old computers. I wonder if I'm on the young side. I was born in 1983, but the first computer I ever played with was an Atari 400 that my dad and sister katy mostly used. So, I have very fond memories of it. I really hope I can restore my Atari 400, seems like it would be a lot of fun to play around with (programming wise). I'm having a lot of fun coding for the NES so I'm betting it'll feel similar. Edited January 11, 2011 by Gradualore Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Posted January 11, 2011 Author Share Posted January 11, 2011 I just got here so my virgin eyes haven't seen any of the flame wars you've mentioned. As far as I'm concerned, everyone here is awesome for being into ridiculously old computers. I wonder if I'm on the young side. I was born in 1983, but the first computer I ever played with was an Atari 400 that my dad and sister katy mostly used. So, I have very fond memories of it. I really hope I can restore my Atari 400, seems like it would be a lot of fun to play around with (programming wise). I'm having a lot of fun coding for the NES so I'm betting it'll feel similar. Born in 1970 here... BTW, you can start developing right away! There are several Atari emulators and 6502 assemblers for the PC and Mac so you can go from start to finish without a real machine if you want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gradualore Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 I just got here so my virgin eyes haven't seen any of the flame wars you've mentioned. As far as I'm concerned, everyone here is awesome for being into ridiculously old computers. I wonder if I'm on the young side. I was born in 1983, but the first computer I ever played with was an Atari 400 that my dad and sister katy mostly used. So, I have very fond memories of it. I really hope I can restore my Atari 400, seems like it would be a lot of fun to play around with (programming wise). I'm having a lot of fun coding for the NES so I'm betting it'll feel similar. Born in 1970 here... BTW, you can start developing right away! There are several Atari emulators and 6502 assemblers for the PC and Mac so you can go from start to finish without a real machine if you want. Cool, you're the same age as my sister Amy =D I'm pretty sure my 400 works, it does both the keyboard beep and the boot from cassette beep that I think you or another regular told me about in another thread. I'm waiting on my RCA-to-coaxial in the mail. There's something really rewarding about running software on a real machine, once I got a PowerPAK for my NES I never looked back. Even if my 400 for whatever reason can't get a signal to a tv I'm hoping it can be restored somehow with information/help from people here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Posted January 11, 2011 Author Share Posted January 11, 2011 (edited) 10 BOOBS=BOOBS+2:GOTO 10 You forgot the error checking. IF BOOBS > HANDFUL You don't want an overflow happening now, do you? All I know is if you PUSH them, you'll end up POP'ing them eventually. (sorry, a bit of Z80/intel thrown in there). Edited January 11, 2011 by Bryan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaybird3rd Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 I know there are some who are getting fed up with the level of confrontation sometimes displayed here. As a coder, I would like to see as many other coders as possible find AA a useful resource for ideas and information, regardless of their background and preferences. As a user, I'd like to see friendly and lively conversation regarding our "antiques". However, if we take this hobby stuff completely seriously and personally then we'll end up driving off the people with the most to contribute and we'll be left with a tiny, contentious clique. My most liberating day in this hobby was when I decided that no one who cares about retro technology should be my enemy. I enthusiastically agree. I think that, without a conscious effort to avoid it, there is a certain tendency for discussion forums to degenerate into the kinds of behaviors you're talking about: imaginary turf wars, long and pointless arguments over insignificant technical minutiae, and the dragging of offline personal issues into the public eye. I sometimes refer to this as "Jaguar disease," since we've seen more of that behavior in the Jaguar forum than anywhere else (pages-long arguments about which coprocessor would be most the efficient to use for integer square roots, and so forth), but in reality it can happen anywhere. I think the key to avoiding this is to refrain from taking these things so personally, as you suggest. A lot of us who still enjoy using classic systems for creative purposes have chosen the systems we've chosen for nostalgic reasons: they're the machines we grew up with, or they're the ones we admired and always wanted, or they're the ones our friends had. I think that kind of attachment is a double-edged sword: it can motivate you, but it can also make any kind of negative feedback (such as a discussion of the system's shortcomings, or constructive criticism for a project) feel like an attack on you, which isn't likely to leave you in a mood for rational discussion. One of the things I've enjoyed about the work I've done on the Mattel Aquarius, for example, is that I did not own it as a kid, and I already know that it can't be considered among the best computers of its time. I don't feel a need to defend it, which allows me to maintain a certain detachment and to view the system and its potentialities with complete objectivity. I try to keep my nostalgic sentimentality on a tight leash when it comes to the systems I did grow up with, too (like the Atari 800), and I think that approach has allowed me to appreciate and enjoy "competing" systems that I might not have given a second look before (like the Aquarius and the Apple ][). I'm not quite there yet with the C64, though. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteD Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 (sorry, a bit of Z80/intel thrown in there). *cough* Good save Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Posted January 11, 2011 Author Share Posted January 11, 2011 I enthusiastically agree. I think that, without a conscious effort to avoid it, there is a tendency for discussion forums to degenerate into the kinds of behaviors you're talking about: imaginary turf wars, long and pointless arguments over insignificant technical minutiae, and the dragging of offline personal issues into the public eye. I sometimes refer to this as "Jaguar disease," since we've seen more of that behavior in the Jaguar forum than anywhere else (pages-long arguments about which coprocessor would be most the efficient to use for integer square roots, and so forth), but in reality it can happen anywhere. I think the key to avoiding this is to refrain from taking these things so personally, as Bryan suggests. A lot of us who still enjoy using classic systems for creative purposes have chosen the systems we've chosen for nostalgic reasons: they're the machines we grew up with, or they're the ones we admired and always wanted, or they're the ones our friends had. I think that kind of attachment is a double-edged sword: it can motivate you, but it can also make any kind of negative feedback (such as a discussion of the system's shortcomings, or constructive criticism for a project) feel like an attack on you, which isn't likely to leave you in a mood for rational discussion. One of the things I've enjoyed about the work I've done on the Mattel Aquarius, for example, is that I did not own it as a kid, and I already know that it can't be considered among the best of all the computers that were available at the time it came out. This allows me to maintain a certain detachment, which makes it possible for me to view the system and its potentialities with complete objectivity. I try to keep my nostalgic sentimentality on a tight leash when it comes to the systems I did grow up with, too (like the Atari 800), and I think that approach has allowed me to appreciate and enjoy "competing" systems that I might not have given a second look before (like the Aquarius and the Apple ][). I'm still not quite there yet with the C64, though. Mattel Aquarius??!?!?!? That piece of cra..... Ahem... <cough> I mean, well said Jay!! And just so you know, I'm only talking about people being rude, obscene and slanderous to each other until everyone gets offended and leaves, but nothing as serious as Jaguar disease. BTW, you did those circuit boards? They look great! *cough* Good save I don't know what you're talking about BTW, "too many people getting along error" priceless! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walter_J64bit Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 (edited) the A8 forum is a walk in the park compared to the Jag forum I hate to see anyone leave any Atari forum. Oh by the way I'm looking for XF moded romz Edited January 11, 2011 by walter_J64bit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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