Would you play Resident Evil on the jag?

[greencoman]

It is cool to see that this thread is still open. Which leaves me to believe that people love the Jag. I thought of the Jag as a 32 bit processing system like the Playstation. So I figued it could easily handle a Resident Evil game. After talking to Sauron though I was a bit more skeptical. However we made it to the moon by setting a goal and making it happen. I am not saying I am perfectly sure the Jag could handle Resident Evil but it may be worth a shot still and even if it could not handle it you could still make fun games on it look at what there is now on it as of now. I would actually like to see a puzzle game on it, like a homebrew. Thanks for your posts guys. By the way no one here on AA wouldn't happen to have a Jaguar or Atari tatoo would they?

[+CyranoJ]

I would actually like to see a puzzle game on it, like a homebrew.

 

Try this because it's really good

[LinkoVitch]

I don't see why the Jag couldn't do Resident Evil tbh (The original PlayStation release, not the revamp for GC). It looked pretty basic in terms of 3D from what I remember, most of the scenes were just rendered layered bitmaps with only the player and the monsters as 3D objects in the scene IIRC.

 

These days could probably even get it on a cart with SD or CF used for storing the graphics. The story and the pre-rendering of all those scenes would be a huge undertaking, but no reason why not.

[sh3-rg]

I don't see why the Jag couldn't do Resident Evil tbh

 

But that's not the point... the Jaguar will only do what people such as your good self will make it do, who gives a flying Frog Feast what the Jaguar could do, it's only the stuff people are actually making it do that's at all interesting, surely?

[LinkoVitch]

I don't see why the Jag couldn't do Resident Evil tbh

 

But that's not the point... the Jaguar will only do what people such as your good self will make it do, who gives a flying Frog Feast what the Jaguar could do, it's only the stuff people are actually making it do that's at all interesting, surely?

 

True, BUT! I would never have thought of a resident evil style game on the jag if this thread wasn't about. So random threads about "oo wouldn't this be cool on the Jag" can be handy for getting the cogs turning (in my case anyway )

 

Not that I have a list of stuff I am thinking about adding to the list of stuff I have already decided I want to write

 

1st I need to finish off what I have started.. damn life getting in the way!

[sh3-rg]

I don't see why the Jag couldn't do Resident Evil tbh

 

But that's not the point... the Jaguar will only do what people such as your good self will make it do, who gives a flying Frog Feast what the Jaguar could do, it's only the stuff people are actually making it do that's at all interesting, surely?

 

True, BUT! I would never have thought of a resident evil style game on the jag if this thread wasn't about. So random threads about "oo wouldn't this be cool on the Jag" can be handy for getting the cogs turning (in my case anyway )

 

Not that I have a list of stuff I am thinking about adding to the list of stuff I have already decided I want to write

 

1st I need to finish off what I have started.. damn life getting in the way!

 

Yea, like you need to be adding to that list! Note to Jaguar Forum Users: please stop making linko's cogs spin!

[Atari_Owl]

There's plenty of goodwill on this forum, both now, and in the past. All you have to do is click the orange numbers to see who is giving it away.

 

It's really eye opening in some older threads.

 

Yes, isn't it.

[sh3-rg]

[+Sauron]

I don't think I dig the vibe I'm getting out of many of these latest posts. Keep to the subject of the thread and stop with the not-so-subtle stirring or people are going to start finding themselves locked out of the thread.

[JagChris]

My comment wasn't directed to coders, but to gamers who ask again and again for 3D stuff on the Jaguar. If you want 3D, look at the homebrew scene on consoles where 3D is actually a strong point (PS1, Dreamcast) ; the Jaguar isn't well suited for that.

 

And there's nothing wrong with pushing the Jag capabilities. I'm just saying that it makes more sense to me to create a smooth 2D game than spend a lot of time and effort on a 3D engine that's still going to have severe limitations on framerate, number of polys and texturing, compared to machines that have hardware 3D acceleration.

 

I'd be happy to be proven wrong, tough.

 

This is a reasonable outlook in my opinion. A similar way to look at it is that this isn't 1999--the Jaguar isn't the only powerful dead system on the homebrew chopping block anymore, so to say. There are far more powerful platforms available to play with now, with better development tools for the homebrewers. They have healthy communities and there is some amazing stuff being done on them on a larger scale and on a more frequent basis. If someone wants to try and get every bit of juice out of it and take a stab at some 3D games on the Jaguar, by all means go for it. If you think you can do it and that's what drives you, take a stab at it. I certainly won't complain! I believe some people tend to confuse the scene with that being the *only* purpose of it though, and that's dead wrong.

 

Keep in mind I'm not saying any of that has been implied in this thread--that's just my general outlook on the Jaguar as a homebrew platform these days and what I'd care to see as a gamer--fun games!

 

I love the Jaguar so I would love to see all aspects of it explored and pushed. 2D and 3D. And not just polygon 3d. Lets see what it can do with Voxel engines like the AO project. Lets see what can REALLY do with bitmaps engines. Lets see what it can really do with lighting effects in 2D like in Rebooteroids. I want to see it all. I want to learn it all.

 

I think the cutting edge is really inside the minds of people who really explore the limits of old systems like this. They push themselves inside their mind to do what they need or find a way around problems previously considered unsolvable. Its exciting.

 

I dont believe its in modern development houses where all they do is wait for a more powerful system to come out to do what they want.

 

You all have my goodwill, in whatever you choose to do.

Edited August 27, 2011 by JagChris

[bugaham]

I think that its a good idea, but firstly the game's graphics would have to be way toned down and we would have to find some way to store more on the cartridge- I think a ps1 game has about 720 mb, so unless you are going to make it for jag cd... But maybe if you really tone down the graphics and make it on jag CD, this would be possible.

[+CyranoJ]

The only time you ever absolutely need to push the Jaguar....

 

[JagChris]

I think that its a good idea, but firstly the game's graphics would have to be way toned down and we would have to find some way to store more on the cartridge- I think a ps1 game has about 720 mb, so unless you are going to make it for jag cd... But maybe if you really tone down the graphics and make it on jag CD, this would be possible.

 

People can do anything they want. They would just have to do it differently. AO's stuff was getting compared to first generation ps1 stuff on youtube. You can do Resident Evil, its just going to have to be toned down in areas.

[Jag_Slave]

I think that its a good idea, but firstly the game's graphics would have to be way toned down and we would have to find some way to store more on the cartridge- I think a ps1 game has about 720 mb, so unless you are going to make it for jag cd... But maybe if you really tone down the graphics and make it on jag CD, this would be possible.

 

People can do anything they want. They would just have to do it differently. AO's stuff was getting compared to first generation ps1 stuff on youtube. You can do Resident Evil, its just going to have to be toned down in areas.

 

 

Honestly, a flat background with maybe a couple flat layers on top of that to walk behind or around, and then 1-5 (3d) rendered characters on screen at one time shouldn't be that hard.

Honestly if its homebrew, I wouldn't even expect impressive 3D models, just something to get the idea of what it is. Highlander? Fight For Life?

Animation wise, you would have a main character that aims across, up, down, walks, runs, and falls when hit. Done.

And then zombies/monsters that walk, jump, or slash. Done.

 

Hard part?

Good luck finding anyone who even knows how to make a 3D character for Jag, or you would see it more often in homebrew for the Jag.

And the ones who would CAN make a 3d character either don't want to, or maybe have plans for using it in another game, or any other various excuses you can conjure up.

[JagChris]

I think that its a good idea, but firstly the game's graphics would have to be way toned down and we would have to find some way to store more on the cartridge- I think a ps1 game has about 720 mb, so unless you are going to make it for jag cd... But maybe if you really tone down the graphics and make it on jag CD, this would be possible.

 

People can do anything they want. They would just have to do it differently. AO's stuff was getting compared to first generation ps1 stuff on youtube. You can do Resident Evil, its just going to have to be toned down in areas.

 

 

Honestly, a flat background with maybe a couple flat layers on top of that to walk behind or around, and then 1-5 (3d) rendered characters on screen at one time shouldn't be that hard.

Honestly if its homebrew, I wouldn't even expect impressive 3D models, just something to get the idea of what it is. Highlander? Fight For Life?

Animation wise, you would have a main character that aims across, up, down, walks, runs, and falls when hit. Done.

And then zombies/monsters that walk, jump, or slash. Done.

 

Hard part?

Good luck finding anyone who even knows how to make a 3D character for Jag, or you would see it more often in homebrew for the Jag.

And the ones who would CAN make a 3d character either don't want to, or maybe have plans for using it in another game, or any other various excuses you can conjure up.

 

I think the second part of this is hitting the nail on the head. The first part, well who knows. The fact is we really havent seen what the Jag can really do in probbly ANY of its areas. 2-D. 3-D etc. We just want good games and we want to see what the Jag can do. When other people say 'there are other systems who do 3-D better' you start running into an infinite progression problem. PS1, PS2, Dreamcast? There are systems out now that do 2-D and 3-D better than them so you would never stop hopping over systems to use something that can do something better.

 

We're Jag fans. We want to see the Jag explored to its fullest potential in all areas. Thats why we ask these questions or discuss things like RE on the Jag. We want honest discussions of possibilities. To start recommending going to other systems has no relevance to the discussion.

[rush6432]

Your problem here is the 2mb working ram. had it been a touch more it would be easier to do this stuff. not to say it cannot be done (a game like RE) But limited working ram doesnt help....

A prime example of the jag being able to do this stuff is with FFL..

Edited August 29, 2011 by rush6432

[LinkoVitch]

Your problem here is the 2mb working ram. had it been a touch more it would be easier to do this stuff. not to say it cannot be done (a game like RE) But limited working ram doesnt help....

A prime example of the jag being able to do this stuff is with FFL..

 

I am sure the PS1 had 2MB of RAM too...

[+CyranoJ]

Yes, it could be done:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ShC8zJgbTts

[sh3-rg]

Hard part?

Good luck finding anyone who even knows how to make a 3D character for Jag

Designing character models is trivial in the grand scheme of things. Making them interact convincingly in the game world is more challenging. Creating a believable world with story, character backgrounds etc. - all way more challenging. Content is one of the most difficult parts of any such game... and the real-time combat parts of RE? Far, far from simple to reproduce.

 

Huge teams of supremely talented individuals created games such as RE, not a couple of bedroom coders with a few spare hours here and there.

 

 

Animation wise, you would have a main character that aims across, up, down, walks, runs, and falls when hit. Done.

And then zombies/monsters that walk, jump, or slash. Done.

That's massively underestimating a lot of work and indirectly related aspects of game mechanics to simply dismiss with inky/blinky/stinky - done.

 

 

People can do anything they want... AO's stuff was getting compared to first generation ps1 stuff on youtube.

People can only do what they are able - the Jaguar is far too constrained a system to simply do what they want. Whether that's due to ability/talent/free time/whatever - that's only part of the story, the Jaguar is not a system that lends itself to freedom of expression in game design and implementation. Push the boundaries of what the machine is capable of and by very definition of what you're doing you limit what are already meagre resources and therefore the ability to craft and explore a game you imagine.

 

As for YouTube comments... anyone can leave those, quoting them won't add to any discussion unless the person who left them is a recognised expert.

 

A game does not just magically appear once someone creates a graphics engine - that's only a fraction of a finished game. Therefore, comparing a graphics engine or engines against commercially released completed games is meaningless for obvious reasons.

 

The Jaguar doesn't just have to throw around the graphics. You'll need a physics engine (you mentioned AOP, a planned 3rd person RPG - physics are obviously going to be pretty important in a project where your character is seen to interact with an open world and engages in real-time combat - clearly first-person would be much simpler way to go in this respect, so that's an added challenge). There's AI and gameplay programming - gameplay mechanics - these give the game it's feel & define the gameplay experience. A scripting engine that handles what you might think of as levels/chapters/tasks/etc the player can go through in the game is likely going to be required for a project of this scale (this can't simply be hard-coded as that's going to lead to problems when changes need to be made - an open-world RPG is going to need many iterations of design/implement/test/refine etc. and it's not going to be all that simple unless the game amounts to a series of Take Object A to Person B and obtain Item C to open door D set-plays... i.e. tedious). A player interface will need coding to allow everything to come together, again very important as it is the link between the player and the game (of course the jaguar pad has that huge keypad and on-screen menus etc could be avoided for the most part - I'm thinking spells/physical attacks, item management etc. in your example). There's more to consider in a game that's not to do with in-game stuff like the front end etc - that's all very time-consuming whatever type of game is being created, but there's details of some of the major tasks the Jaguar is going to have to handle as well as displaying those shiny graphics.

 

Away from actual Jaguar code, you've also got to consider tools. Not all the content for a game will be possible to create with off-the-shelf software. Creation of custom tools can be a big part of what appear to be even the simplest of games. Then there's all the game assets that are created with bought software packages. That's all going to account for many man hours over and above those allocated to creating & refining the graphics engine(s) and why you cannot simply compare graphics tech demos (however advanced) to complete games, especially on differing hardware platforms.

 

 

When other people say 'there are other systems who do 3-D better' you start running into an infinite progression problem. PS1, PS2, Dreamcast? There are systems out now that do 2-D and 3-D better than them so you would never stop hopping over systems to use something that can do something better.

It's not a matter of hopping to more and more powerful hardware. There are systems that offer such things as decent 3D and do so in a way that is simple to achieve & allows designers to work creatively instead of fighting technical restrictions - rather than doing all this so-called 'pushing' before you get anywhere. The Jaguar is just not one of those systems but it does have a few tricks for various tasks. If people want to attempt to produce epic, sprawling and technically advanced Jaguar games, that's great, but it shouldn't be done lightly as they will have to invest huge amounts of blood, sweat and tears simply getting to the point where other systems have you jump in and hold your hand, then follow that with all the other work to get the codebase complete so the creative work can begin.

 

 

We're Jag fans. We want to see the Jag explored to its fullest potential in all areas.

Not everyone thinks exactly the same way tbf. Some people are Atari fans first or retro game fans first and they just happen to have a Jaguar set up along with a few other machines. Playing fun games of the type they have these old systems for in the first place. And not everyone creating games wants to push technical boundaries or struggle with a confined, difficult set of self-imposed restrictions by forcing a system to its limits, some people simply want to have fun making games that their friends & family enjoy playing with them. Of course I'm not saying the Jaguar should be used to reproduce verbatim some 8-bit 'classic', but reimagining that kind of game in a way the Jaguar lends itself to achieving? I can see the appeal of that. Each to their own, everyone coming at it from their own backgrounds for their own reasons.

 

 

Thats why we ask these questions or discuss things like RE on the Jag. We want honest discussions of possibilities.

Discussing possibilities is all very well and may be enjoyable, but it won't make games happen and is ultimately pointless without a fundamental understanding of game design and implementation basics and some idea of the nature of the Jaguar...

[Jag_Slave]

Well of course they had a large team with more resources and time LOL.

When I list inky blinky stinky done, of course we all know there much more work than just waving a magic wand!

I am comparing it to the grander more elaborate 3D animations and models on systems of the same decade, which in comparison make RE look less elaborate- and simpler to do. Perhaps my having worded something to make it seem do-able or something worth tackling is a mistake. I'd hate for anyone to try too hard to create a game as simple as RE in comparison to something like MGS, or Nights, ETC ETC

Just because myself or other folks here cant do it, doesn't mean that its hard, I've see it done all the time by other bedroom coders for multiple systems.

 

And on that note: I'd love to see what AtariOwl comes up with, and any input on what all has been involved in 3D animations from first hand experience

[+Sauron]

I am sure the PS1 had 2MB of RAM too...

 

Yes, but that was just the main RAM. It also had 1MB of VRAM. Not to mention the rest of the hardware, which essentially left the Jag in the dust as far as 3D is concerned.

[LinkoVitch]

I am sure the PS1 had 2MB of RAM too...

 

Yes, but that was just the main RAM. It also had 1MB of VRAM. Not to mention the rest of the hardware, which essentially left the Jag in the dust as far as 3D is concerned.

 

My bad, I wasn't aware it had more RAM, never really looked at the specs of the PS1 too hard tbh, didn't interest me.

 

See, still lurnings

[JagChris]

As for YouTube comments... anyone can leave those, quoting them won't add to any discussion unless the person who left them is a recognised expert.

 

I do believe the man who made the comment most definitely qualifies.

[JagChris]

I don't think I dig the vibe I'm getting out of many of these latest posts. Keep to the subject of the thread and stop with the not-so-subtle stirring or people are going to start finding themselves locked out of the thread.

 

?

[T2KFREEKER]

You know, after reading all of this, the Resident Evil characters would look very interesting in Gouraud Shaded Polygons. And instead of the "Toning It Down" argument, if we are playing devils advocate here, why not just release it with a 4md RAM cart like the one that was released for the Sega Saturn? Could also work with the guys who did the Skunk Board and get a program running on that that would do the same thing.