+Larry Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 The last time that Bob was checking on a build, he wanted 50 pieces. He likely forgot, but we talked about Atari Age several years ago. I have two of the BB/FB's, but it's a big honker (by today's standards), and then you have the issue of SCSI drives (although the current version can use drives with 512-byte sectors). Or, you can use a IDE->SCSI adapter, but those are getting harder to find and certainly more expensive, also. I don't see this as very likely to happen, but at the very least, Bob would need to describe what it would be, and at least a ballpark of the price. Old ones were about $250 with the improved firmware (a.k.a. Enhancer) and you needed the parity-mod to use pretty much any "semi-modern" 3.5" SCSI drive. For today's use, the RS232 section could probably go, and the printer interface is a toss-up (to me). SDrives and APE have pretty much killed the need for a floppy board. I think the BB/FB was super-cool in 1995, and probably is a bit long in the tooth today. That said, I would likely support the build and buy one to help make this happen, but depending on the price/features. -Larry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+orpheuswaking Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 Tell him I want a quintopus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
themrfreeze Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 I'm going to stick my neck out here and say that Bob may have made this offer ONLY because he has a bunch of original parts on hand. Back in the day, the cost to manufacture the Black Box was pretty substantial, especially the cost of the PCBs themselves (IIRC, we had to buy them in batches of 50 or 100 to make things cost-effective). Redesigning the board to modernize it sounds cool, but the costs associated with doing so probably aren't economically feasible. But I'd certainly be up for assembling the boards, if this comes to fruition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+wood_jl Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 I don't understand fooling with questionable, vintage hard drives (that you'll feel lucky to be able to get) and cabling and power supply and housing and worrying about how many bytes per sector and all that crap, when you can get 2GB of SD for $6. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spookt Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 (edited) I don't understand fooling with questionable, vintage hard drives (that you'll feel lucky to be able to get) and cabling and power supply and housing and worrying about how many bytes per sector and all that crap, when you can get 2GB of SD for $6. Well basically because it's kewl as hell I can't speak for the BB but my MIO doesn't use a vintage drive, it is hooked up to a 73Gb Seagate Cheetah unit and it is screamingly fast. With the latest firmware I can have a 32Mb partition running MyPicoDOS stuffed full of just about every game I can think of which boots to a menu something like 5 seconds after I turn on the Atari. Swap in my SDX or 3.2 partition and I have my "serious" set up for testing and developing on. Like I said, kewl as hell Edited March 31, 2011 by spookt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 I don't understand fooling with questionable, vintage hard drives (that you'll feel lucky to be able to get) and cabling and power supply and housing and worrying about how many bytes per sector and all that crap, when you can get 2GB of SD for $6. By that token, why fool around with questionable, vintage 8-bit computers? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndusGT Posted March 31, 2011 Author Share Posted March 31, 2011 Well, I can, as I stated before, you can use tiny IDE flash drives with a SCSI-IDE bridge I don't understand fooling with questionable, vintage hard drives (that you'll feel lucky to be able to get) and cabling and power supply and housing and worrying about how many bytes per sector and all that crap, when you can get 2GB of SD for $6. Well basically because it's kewl as hell I can't speak for the BB but my MIO doesn't use a vintage drive, it is hooked up to a 73Gb Seagate Cheetah unit and it is screamingly fast. With the latest firmware I can have a 32Mb partition running MyPicoDOS stuffed full of just about every game I can think of which boots to a menu something like 5 seconds after I turn on the Atari. Swap in my SDX or 3.2 partition and I have my "serious" set up for testing and developing on. Like I said, kewl as hell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndusGT Posted March 31, 2011 Author Share Posted March 31, 2011 I don't understand fooling with questionable, vintage hard drives (that you'll feel lucky to be able to get) and cabling and power supply and housing and worrying about how many bytes per sector and all that crap, when you can get 2GB of SD for $6. By that token, why fool around with questionable, vintage 8-bit computers? Precisely Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MEtalGuy66 Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 It's definitely a kewl device.. and from the collector's standpoint, this would definitley drop the price of aquiring one. It's pretty hard to convince someone to sell theirs these days.. But as far as a storage soultion, you have to look at the market. With stuff like the IDE plus 2.0 comming out, Candles Speedrive (in the near future), the latest updates to the MyIDE OS and Flashjazzcat's SDX MyIDE driver... I don't know.. I would say that a firmware update for the BlackBox would be an absolute minimum to make it a feasible competititor. And even then, the connection standards all have to be adapted with extra cabling/adaptors. It's not nearly the best value.. Not like it used to be.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marius Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 When Puff says that he might organise another productioin run of the BlackBox I'm 99.99% sure it will be just the same blackbox as the last produced ones. He is not going to improve or change it. The BlackBox has a few advantages compared to other interfaces. Especially the built-in 6502 monitor is extermely handy. The SCSI port is fast enough for me, so I don't need an upgrade of that Floppy board is not really interesting anymore, with the invention of sio2ide, sio2usb, sio2sd, sdrive and all that kind of interfaces, it is much handier to exchange data through one of these devices. I have a bunch of spare parts for one of my 5 blackboxes, so I don't need a new blackbox, and I can fix them for the rest of my life. Some parts are harder to obtain btw. The 6551, 6522 and 6821 are not so common anymore, still possible to get, but harder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spookt Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 It's definitely a kewl device.. and from the collector's standpoint, this would definitley drop the price of aquiring one. It's pretty hard to convince someone to sell theirs these days.. But as far as a storage soultion, you have to look at the market. With stuff like the IDE plus 2.0 comming out, Candles Speedrive (in the near future), the latest updates to the MyIDE OS and Flashjazzcat's SDX MyIDE driver... I don't know.. I would say that a firmware update for the BlackBox would be an absolute minimum to make it a feasible competititor. And even then, the connection standards all have to be adapted with extra cabling/adaptors. It's not nearly the best value.. Not like it used to be.. Agreed. To be honest the only real reason I've said I'd be interested is because I don't know if I'll ever have the chance again. The set up I have here with the MIO pretty much gives me everything I want. I'll probably use the new IDE plus 2 board on my VBXE machine and drop candle's ultimate 1Mb into the 800XL running the MIO. To be honest I don't really have the space to have a BB and MIO set up at the same time, but I'd still love to have one to play with. By that token, why fool around with questionable, vintage 8-bit computers? Agreed, I guess you could ask me why I still mess about with Star Raiders when I have a PS3 and a Wii sitting in the lounge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fibrewire Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 Well then i'm not interested. Thanks anyway! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MEtalGuy66 Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 (edited) [ I don't understand fooling with questionable, vintage hard drives (that you'll feel lucky to be able to get) and cabling and power supply and housing and worrying about how many bytes per sector and all that crap, when you can get 2GB of SD for $6. Do you realize that I can buy a brand new 73gig 10,000RPM UltraSCSI-160 hardisk for $11.00??? As everything moves to SATA,SAS, and high performance solid state solutions in the server market, companies are MASSIVELY surplusing all of their "spares" from the last generation of high speed SCSI devices. Also, with the parity upgrade on the black box or MIO, there is a NICE universal flash media device available for $62.00 that will let you mount SD/MMC,CF,Memstick,PCMCIA flash, and Smart media cards all at the same time... That's 5 flash devices mounted simultaneously.. Theres no way to do that on a MyIDE.. (or any other controller for that matter) Edited March 31, 2011 by MEtalGuy66 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atari8man2004 Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 Indus GT Thanks for the great news. First please put me down for 2 Blackboxes. My 20 year old Blackbox and MIO still run perfectly like new, and both where used to run Star NET bbs node 446 for 11 years. This is great news cause I have been looking to pickup another BB second hand for years!! Thanks!!! /|\atari8man/|\ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+wood_jl Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 (edited) I don't understand fooling with questionable, vintage hard drives (that you'll feel lucky to be able to get) and cabling and power supply and housing and worrying about how many bytes per sector and all that crap, when you can get 2GB of SD for $6. By that token, why fool around with questionable, vintage 8-bit computers? Because the vintage 8-bit computer is the very instrument that I intend to work (play) with. Everything else is subservient to that device. Why would I want to hassle with large, bulky, complicated devices, which diminish my time and efforts from the very 8-bit that is the center of my attention? Does it not make sense to use the Ultrasatan device on the ST? Would it be advantageous for me to seek, instead, an old Seagate ST-series drive, host adapter, controller, and case and power supply? Or is it more fun to pop in the SD card and go about my business? I guess I'm the only one who feels this way, and what do I know? (Not much, much less than you guys, I'll admit) The reason is the same for using the SIO2SD or the Sdrive - is it not? ABSOLUTELY, IT IS. Edited March 31, 2011 by wood_jl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Havok69 Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 What's the expected price point for these? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox-1 / mnx Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 Also, with the parity upgrade on the black box or MIO, there is a NICE universal flash media device available for $62.00 that will let you mount SD/MMC,CF,Memstick,PCMCIA flash, and Smart media cards all at the same time... That's 5 flash devices mounted simultaneously.. SCM PCD-50B SCSI Card Reader http://urql.com/ogue These is one small issue with these. The 5 slots are accessed by SCSI LUN's and are fixed. The PCMCIA slot is LUN#0 which is required if you want to store your partition/configuration data so you'll need a PCMCIA->CF/SD/whatever adapter. or... Marius edited some BB code to set the default LUN# to another unit and it seems to work but in that case you'll need to burn a new EPROM (or use a FlashOS). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spookt Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 I don't understand fooling with questionable, vintage hard drives (that you'll feel lucky to be able to get) and cabling and power supply and housing and worrying about how many bytes per sector and all that crap, when you can get 2GB of SD for $6. By that token, why fool around with questionable, vintage 8-bit computers? Because the vintage 8-bit computer is the very instrument that I intend to work (play) with. Everything else is subservient to that device. Why would I want to hassle with large, bulky, complicated devices, which diminish my time and efforts from the very 8-bit that is the center of my attention? Does it not make sense to use the Ultrasatan device on the ST? Would it be advantageous for me to seek, instead, an old Seagate ST-series drive, host adapter, controller, and case and power supply? Or is it more fun to pop in the SD card and go about my business? I guess I'm the only one who feels this way, and what do I know? (Not much, much less than you guys, I'll admit) The reason is the same for using the SIO2SD or the Sdrive - is it not? ABSOLUTELY, IT IS. That's the point though right? Each to his own. I love the fact that I have a big fast HDD hanging off my PBI bus. But do I use SDrives and SIO2USB and Flash carts ? Absolutely. It's all fun. Once the MIO is set up and partitions are formatted you don't need to touch it and it really is bloody fast. Find what works for you and lets you enjoy the 8 bit goodness and go with it. For me (and it might just be me) setting up the MIO and the disk *was* fun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itzmike Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 If Bob were to make another run of the Black box, or even the floppy board, I'd be right in that line cash in hand. After lending out my BB/FB and having it come back shorted (no longer able to boot) I've been hoping for either and MIO like project or for one to show up for sale or auction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spookt Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 If Bob were to make another run of the Black box, or even the floppy board, I'd be right in that line cash in hand. After lending out my BB/FB and having it come back shorted (no longer able to boot) I've been hoping for either and MIO like project or for one to show up for sale or auction. You could always buy one of MetalGuy66's repro MIOs if the new BBs don't come off. I can recommend them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itzmike Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 You could always buy one of MetalGuy66's repro MIOs if the new BBs don't come off. I can recommend them. I've got both the 256 and 1meg version of the MIO and I've been toying with the idea of getting the upgraded MIO. If it could read black box formatted hard drives, I'd be there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+orpheuswaking Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 QUINTOPUSSSSSSSS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndusGT Posted March 31, 2011 Author Share Posted March 31, 2011 This from the manual: The BB can read MIO at least the old MIO hard drives, perhaps MetalGuy can fill people in as far as the updated MIO Switch 7 is used to enable MIO compatibility. The BB's hard disk port differs slightly from the MIO board. The MIO stores all data on hard disks inverted. This is fine as long as the MIO reads it, but a host adaptor that functions properly will get garbage data. Setting this switch on will cause the BB to invert all data when doing hard disk I/O. This pertains to ALL hard disks connected. When this switch is on, you may not have any partitions larger than 16 megs. We provided this for MIO users who now use the BB, and already have hard drives full of data. If you reformat your hard disks, we recommend you format with this switch off. You could always buy one of MetalGuy66's repro MIOs if the new BBs don't come off. I can recommend them. I've got both the 256 and 1meg version of the MIO and I've been toying with the idea of getting the upgraded MIO. If it could read black box formatted hard drives, I'd be there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+wood_jl Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 I don't understand fooling with questionable, vintage hard drives (that you'll feel lucky to be able to get) and cabling and power supply and housing and worrying about how many bytes per sector and all that crap, when you can get 2GB of SD for $6. By that token, why fool around with questionable, vintage 8-bit computers? Because the vintage 8-bit computer is the very instrument that I intend to work (play) with. Everything else is subservient to that device. Why would I want to hassle with large, bulky, complicated devices, which diminish my time and efforts from the very 8-bit that is the center of my attention? Does it not make sense to use the Ultrasatan device on the ST? Would it be advantageous for me to seek, instead, an old Seagate ST-series drive, host adapter, controller, and case and power supply? Or is it more fun to pop in the SD card and go about my business? I guess I'm the only one who feels this way, and what do I know? (Not much, much less than you guys, I'll admit) The reason is the same for using the SIO2SD or the Sdrive - is it not? ABSOLUTELY, IT IS. That's the point though right? Each to his own. I love the fact that I have a big fast HDD hanging off my PBI bus. But do I use SDrives and SIO2USB and Flash carts ? Absolutely. It's all fun. Once the MIO is set up and partitions are formatted you don't need to touch it and it really is bloody fast. Find what works for you and lets you enjoy the 8 bit goodness and go with it. For me (and it might just be me) setting up the MIO and the disk *was* fun I understand. Just for the record, though, let's walk through this. It is ok, then, to use the SD card as a floppy alternative. There is, though, some "unwritten rule" that it is NOT ok to use the SD card as a hard drive. As a matter of fact, the desire to do so is unreasonable and diminishing to the overall 8-nit experience. We give a pass to substituting the SD card for the actual floppy disk, to be sure. In other words, it's "kosher" to use the the SD card in place of the floppy disk. I think we can all agree on that. However - and let's be completely transparent and forthcoming in this regard - it's NOT OK to use the SD card as a hard drive alternative. It's only OK to use the SD card as a floppy disk alternative. On other systems - such as the Atari ST (only naming this shit-ass-hated system because it serves as a fine example of SD card working as hard drive) it is ok to use the SD card as a hard drive alternative. As a matter of fact, the "Ultrasatan" device on the Atari ST takes not one, but **TWO** SD cards. It also includes a real-time-clock. But fuck that shit, the Atari ST is a hated piece of shit here, so let's dismiss that entirely, along with the Ultrasatan device, on those grounds. So getting back to the point: It's ok to use the SD card on the Atari8, but only as a floppy alternative and not as a hard drive alternative. Please use the space below to explain that rationale..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itzmike Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 This from the manual: The BB can read MIO at least the old MIO hard drives, perhaps MetalGuy can fill people in as far as the updated MIO And I've gotten good use out of switch 7 in the past. I miss having that BB/FB combo though. My mistake was to lend out a system (130xe, 2 800xl's, BB/FB, Mux and hard drive to a teacher friend who was interested is showing her class a classic system and just what these systems could do in their day. At some point, the BB got removed from the 130xe and then jammed back in; ripping the ECI loose from the mother board and in the process, sending stray voltages into the BB causing it to no longer boot. So, if Bob wants to make another production run of BB's, I'm there .. if the new and improved MIO can be switched to read BB formatted hard drives, I'll have to add a third MIO to my collection. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Like us on Facebook
Follow us on Twitter
AtariAge on Instagram
Watch us on YouTube
Chat on Discord
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.