So then ,what PS2 game(s) would you buy?

[kisrael]

A politician electioneering a headline always pisses me off as well. I don't think anything should be censored, let alone video games. I agree that the government has no place telling people what entertainment is "immoral" -- I don't want to be subject to someone else's moral code.

Your posts have made me think a bit, about what I like so much in this game. The "doing bad stuff" is definately a part of the appeal, I think it would be disingenous for me to argue otherwise. I like the opportunity to act out in ways that I never would in real life because it's so destructive to me and others. And it probably is a bit of a powertrip.

 

The game has other terrific qualities though. I was thinking of it in terms of comparison with Metroid Prime, another large-scale game that's a contender for game of the year (and has taken hours and hours of my life ) I realize I like both because they have missions/tasks to do, but I prefer GTA:VC because 1. it's so amazingly open ended with all these optional sidequests and integrated minigames 2. (related) it feels more like a well-rounded universe, i.e. one that wasn't as obviously built for my amusement, and 3. the missions aren't so puzzle based, there's often more than one strategy or technique that'll work. (Also, I like how while my character builds a small crime empire and has access to more things, he's basically the same in terms of capabilities as he was at the begining--as opposed to Metroid, which (like Mega Man) is all about leveling up, so much so that they have to come with a cockamamie scheme why Samus has none of her former games' powerups at the begining of each new game)

However, I center on women pedestrians because, as I pointed out, they're the innocents in the GTA games, which seems to be the appeal to idiot players who get off on running over or shooting defenseless people.

There are roughly as many men pedestrians and innocent drivers as there are women, except maybe more hookers about.

 

(Hmm...on the other hand you mostly battle with men, which means you end up killing far more men. Though gangs of fem women with guns would seem a little odd or jokey (though maybe it would be nice if a mugged pedestrian would pull a little gun out of his or her bag and fight back) and gangs of butch women would seem like they were making fun of lesbians...maybe it's better this way)

 

I admit being a little distrubed by a "fun things to do when you've beaten the game" FAQ that was mostly killing large number of pedestrians in as amusing fashions as possible. But like I said; it is a power trip, but that's something that comes with being a boy. Don't let your son have toy guns, and he'll use a stick and go 'bang! bang! bang!', it's how young males come to related with the world. Maturity is keeping that kind of feeling under wraps and utilizing that competitive energy in better ways.

 

My cigarette-smoking blurb is there because I'm sick of people trying to take away smokers' rights. It's there in a humorous context, because it's only an Atari forum and I see no need to argue with members about what's good or bad for me.

--SNIP TWO PARAGRAPHS--

So let's not have any more ad-hominum arguments.

I mentioned in passing, two lines at the begining of my post, puncuated by 'heh'. I think smoking is a stupid addiction, but do understand some of the stress relief benefits, and would smoke maybe a cigarette a day when I had a girlfriend who liked to smoke and go for walks (honestly, I don't think I inhaled all that much, as corny as it sounds)

 

So I wasn't making a big point about a connection smoking vs. violence against other people--but come on, you have to admit the shallow appearance of a strong moral argument to the right of an amusingly amoral catch phrase is a disconnect at least worth the 'Heh' I gave it.

[Chris++]

But why would it necessarily be an immoral catch-phrase? What if I believed that smoking saved the lives of those who would've died from stress much earlier than normal? Anyway, I didn't take your "heh" offensively at all, believe it or not. It's just that I'm one of those people who will start typing about something, and then go on and on and on if I feel strongly about it. That was my blunder of overdone rhetorical frothing, not yours.

 

You made some excellent points, and I understand what you mean about male power trips. I suppose I should lighten up a little on stuff like this, but hell, if you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything. I'm glad I've gotten you to at least think about it. I admit you've definitely gotten me to consider it from a different perspective.

 

 

CF again

[kisrael]

But why would it necessarily be an immoral catch-phrase? What if I believed that smoking saved the lives of those who would've died from stress much earlier than normal?

Well, if you thought that and had evidence, maybe it would be ok, or at least worth arguing about.

 

Of course, anything along the lines of "____ is cool!" sends pretty much the opposite message (that's why I was saying I couldn't tell if you were really for or against in my first Heh observation)

 

Tangent: I so have to roll my eyes at those "Tobacco is Wacko (if you're a teen)" ads I see, funded by tobacco companies, I think because they were forced to. Not only does that follow the message of "if a tagline says something is cool/uncool, it's actually the opposite", they sneak in the "if you're a teen", emphasizing how it's something for adults, and therefore, if you want to be more adultish (a typical desire in young folks)

you should smoke...pretty slimey behavior on the part of those companies.

Anyway, I didn't take your "heh" offensively at all, believe it or not. It's just that I'm one of those people who will start typing about something, and then go on and on and on if I feel strongly about it. That was my blunder of overdone rhetorical frothing, not yours.  

Actually it's big of you to be so aware of a slight frothing tendency, and own up to it.

You made some excellent points, and I understand what you mean about male power trips. I suppose I should lighten up a little on stuff like this, but hell, if you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything. I'm glad I've gotten you to at least think about it. I admit you've definitely gotten me to consider it from a different perspective.

Same here, pal.

 

The one issue of yours I most disagree with, and you haven't yet counter-argued, is whether GTA:VC really singles out women as victims, or if it's an equal opportunity abuser.

 

I've posted some stuff in the "Violence in Video Games" thread that you might find interesting. I'm just delighted we cut off a potential flamewar at the knees! (Oops, that was a very violent metaphor, must be too much GTA! )

[Chris++]

See? Now you want to cut off female knees!

 

Regarding my knack for directing criticism toward violence against women in specific: I admit I haven't played either game -- I watched GTA3 extensively engaged by my friend for a few hours, and the second played by him for about twenty minutes before concluding that it's basically the same game as 3. It seemed to me that every man who needed to be killed represented an actual plot enhancement in the game, as he was some sort of crooked cop or criminal. Women, by contrast, were always innocent bystanders.

 

But I haven't seen both games played to such an extent that I can justly argue about which sex is singled out as numerous helpless targets. As I said above, violence against girls/women bothers me in any respect -- on TV, in movies, real life, etc. -- so the deck was already stacked against GTA3 in my head. But imagine if most men on this planet were like that...I mean, they're obviously physically superior to women, so of course the abuse of innocents is going to be directed in the female direction when we're talking about the majority of crimes or abuse. Imagine if more men were bothered by the slightest thought of hurting anyone essentially weaker than they.

 

The real problem with male strength is that men are typically mentally INFerior to women...what a terrific combination, huh?

 

 

CF again again

[kisrael]

It seemed to me that every man who needed to be killed represented an actual plot enhancement in the game, as he was some sort of crooked cop or criminal. Women, by contrast, were always innocent bystanders.

There are just many (or roughly as many) male innocent bystanders (no kids, thank you jeebus). Ironically, you don't need to kill nearly as many women as men (I can think of one mission where you take out a banker's wife, one of a series of targeted assassinations, mostly against men) -- so you should be complaining that this game is violent against men, since they're the ones that you need to kill to progress through the game!

 

Yes, I know that argument is lacking in some ways, I wasn't being 100% serious but it's an interesting point.

 

Also, I think the whole pay hooker/kill hooker to reclaim money bit stands out in people's minds as a bit of particular ugliness that is in fact only against women.

 

(Heh...what if they had an option to let your character be gay, go in for a little rough trade? A lot of gamers would go nuts and feel that their own sexuality was being threatened.)

The real problem with male strength is that men are typically mentally INFerior to women...what a terrific combination, huh?

I think "men are typically mentally inferior to women" is a ridiculous statement, just an inversion of the old "conventional wisdom". What's more reasonable to say is that, on average, women are more concerned about making social connections and emotional contact, and men are more concerned about getting things done and status among peers. I'd accept that men are typically emotionally inferior to women, which combined with tending to be physically stronger does make a dangerous pairing.

[RJ]

Uh, getting back on-topic, I think these are $20 each:

TimeSplitters

Star Wars: Starfighter

Tokyo Extreme Racer Zero

Unreal: Tournament

Baldur's Gate: Dark Alliance

Midnight Club

Ridge Racer V

Paris-Dakar Rally (surprisingly decent rally race)

[NE146]

Maximo is another goody (pretty much a 3D update to the Ghosts and Goblins series) that's going for good and cheap.. I think it's either 19 or 29 bucks at Toys R Us?

[kisrael]

Uh, getting back on-topic, I think these are $20 each:

TimeSplitters

Star Wars: Starfighter

Tokyo Extreme Racer Zero

Unreal: Tournament

Baldur's Gate: Dark Alliance

Midnight Club

Ridge Racer V

Paris-Dakar Rally (surprisingly decent rally race)

Got Unreal. Terrible framerate w/ 4 people, I was hoping it would be better than the DC version. Really sucks, Quake III is so much better (at least on DC)

 

I'm thinking about Starfighter...how does it compare to Rogue Leader?

 

Overall, I have noticed that on average games seem to lack the polish of what Nintendo releases...GTA3:VC is the only notable exception so far. And despite the multitap, (and probably hurt by the new emphasis on online gaming), it really is terrible for multiplayer gaming. (i.e. more than 2)

 

Finally, I have GC TimeSplitters 2, which is pretty good--how does the original compare?

[Agent X]

Overall, I have noticed that on average games seem to lack the polish of what Nintendo releases...GTA3:VC is the only notable exception so far.

 

I don't know about that. If you're looking at ratios, then yeah, I suppose the GameCube has a higher ratio of good vs. bad games. But, I believe the PS2 has a higher number of good games overall.

 

Try Sly Cooper or Ratchet & Clank if you want to see some excellent recent games with a heaping layer of polish. Since you've hinted that you're more inclined to the style of games that the GameCube offers, these should be right up your alley. They would be right at home on GameCube, except they are on PS2. As they are both first-party games, they're only $39.99 rather than the $49.99 that most games debut at.

 

Seriously, you must try these two games. At the very least, rent them if you don't want to risk buying them right away. I assure you, it'll be worth it. The latest Jampack demo disc (sells for $5.99) also has playable demos of both of these, if a rental is out of the question.

 

If you want to go budget, then the ones I mentioned in my earlier message in this thread are good. I think Maximo is another one that you should be able to pick up cheaply. Baldur's Gate: Dark Alliance also just became a Greatest Hit a few weeks ago.

 

And despite the multitap, (and probably hurt by the new emphasis on online gaming), it really is terrible for multiplayer gaming. (i.e. more than 2)

 

I don't think it's any worse than any of the other current systems. In fact, it might be better, since with two multitaps you can actually play up to eight players on one system, although most of the 8-player games are sports games.

 

There are many other quality games that support four players, such as Gauntlet Dark Legacy, Red Faction II, Twisted Metal: Black, or both of the ATV Offroad Fury games. Also, try Frequency, which was one I suggested earlier. It's very innovative, and it's easy to learn so your friends don't have to read the manuals or memorize a lot of complex rules.

 

I don't know what types of games you like to play multiplayer, but if you give some examples of GC or N64 multiplayer games you liked, I can probably dig up similar examples on PS2 or the original PlayStation.

[kisrael]

Overall' date=' I have noticed that on average games seem to lack the polish of what Nintendo releases...GTA3:VC is the only notable exception so far.[/quote']

I don't know about that. If you're looking at ratios' date=' then yeah, I suppose the GameCube has a higher ratio of good vs. bad games. But, I believe the PS2 has a higher number of good games overall.[/quote']

Eh, maybe...though some of the loadtimes are truly gruesome.

 

Or maybe i'm just bitter at buying (albeit cheaply) "Fantavision". Which, ironically, is an extremely polished game...an extremely polished turd of a game. Maybe 'polished' isn't quite the right term...well-conceived and implemented I guess.

And despite the multitap' date=' (and probably hurt by the new emphasis on online gaming), it really is terrible for multiplayer gaming. (i.e. more than 2)[/quote']

I don't think it's any worse than any of the other current systems. In fact, it might be better, since with two multitaps you can actually play up to eight players on one system, although most of the 8-player games are sports games.

It's theoretically better, but in practice, GCN has a much better percentage of games that go to 4 player.

There are many other quality games that support four players, such as Gauntlet Dark Legacy, Red Faction II, Twisted Metal: Black, or both of the ATV Offroad Fury games. Also, try Frequency, which was one I suggested earlier. It's very innovative, and it's easy to learn so your friends don't have to read the manuals or memorize a lot of complex rules.

I really do need to try Frequency. I hate Gauntlet. And Twisted Metal was a big disappointment 4 players...just random zipping around, grabbing weapons and firing. (I think the problem was too much emphasis on the powerups)

I don't know what types of games you like to play multiplayer, but if you give some examples of GC or N64 multiplayer games you liked, I can probably dig up similar examples on PS2 or the original PlayStation.

Well, Smash Bros, Monkey Ball, the Mario Parties, Mario Tennis, Mario Kart...

I've seen version of all of those last 3 around, but usually they aren't as well done on PSX and PS2.

[Mikau]

I'm thinking about Starfighter...how does it compare to Rogue Leader?

 

Finally, I have GC TimeSplitters 2, which is pretty good--how does the original compare?

 

unfortunetly, jedi starfighter doesnt really come close to rogue leader. and the original TS isn't all that great if you have the second. its still cool, but there isnt as much stuff to do.

 

Wild Arms 3 is cool. its also only $40.

[RJ]

I meant the FIRST Starfighter. I can't compare it to Rogue Leader as I haven't played that- but you're looking for PS2 games, right? I also haven't played TS2 but I liked TS better than Unreal Tournament- runs much smoother.

I suggest you try/buy them both- I've seen SW: Starfighter for $15 on sale. IMO you can't go wrong paying $20 (or less) for any PS2 title.

[kisrael]

I meant the FIRST Starfighter. I can't compare it to Rogue Leader as I haven't played that- but you're looking for PS2 games, right? I also haven't played TS2 but I liked TS better than Unreal Tournament- runs much smoother.

I suggest you try/buy them both- I've seen SW: Starfighter for $15 on sale. IMO you can't go wrong paying $20 (or less) for any PS2 title.

I don't know if I totally beleve that $20 for any PS2 title. For instance, Fantavision... in general, it's worth renting things beforehand unless it looks promising and is under $10.

[cimerians]

CheaperOlder games I've enjoyed greatly on my PS2:

Drakan: The Ancient Gates

Onimusha

Devil May Cry

Gauntlet (Up to four players)

Baldur's Gate: Dark Alliance (Dual player optional)

Metal Gear (Yes, I love the long cutscenes)

 

Slightly more expensive must-have games:

GTA Vice City (You must own this game)

Activision Anthology (You must own this if you visit this site)

Medal of Honor

Socom (You need the network adaptor to play this game)

Final Fantasy X (Only if your into RPG's)

 

Obviously I love RPG's too but I won't get into that.....

 

The funnest games I played when me and some buddies get together for a PS2 bash we always play:

 

NHL HITZ

Madden 2003 or NFL2K3

Knockout Kings

Tekken Tag

 

Have fun!

[Agent X]

I don't know what types of games you like to play multiplayer, but if you give some examples of GC or N64 multiplayer games you liked, I can probably dig up similar examples on PS2 or the original PlayStation.

Well, Smash Bros, Monkey Ball, the Mario Parties, Mario Tennis, Mario Kart...

I've seen version of all of those last 3 around, but usually they aren't as well done on PSX and PS2.

 

There's a game coming out in two weeks called War of the Monsters, which is reminiscent of Super Smash Bros. or Power Stone. I tried the demo, and it's a very exciting game! It was so good that I even preordered it. I know there's a two-player mode in the game. I've seen some articles that say that it supports up to four players, but I'm not sure if it will. Even if it only tops out at two players, I think it should be worth getting.

 

There's nothing like Super Monkey Ball on PS2 that I know of.

 

There are several party games, but the general consensus is that the Mario Party series is still the best.

 

There are a few tennis games on PS2. I haven't played any of them, but I've heard the best is Sega Sports Tennis, which is essentially the PS2 version of Sega's Tennis 2K2 on the Dreamcast. This game does support up to four players.

 

If you're looking for a fast-action go-kart racing game with powerups like the Mario Kart games, then I highly recommend Crash Team Racing for the original PlayStation. This game has lots of tracks, and lots of play modes for one to four players. It's a Greatest Hit now, and I've seen it for as low as $14.99 new. There are a couple of similar games on the PS2, and many on the PS1, but this is easily the best of the bunch. I'd even go as far as to say it's the best racer of this type on the market of all of the systems.

 

If you want to go to a slightly more realistic racing experience, then I recommend the ATV Offroad Fury games on the PlayStation 2. They have beautiful graphics, are easy to learn and a lot of fun to play, and also support up to four players. The first one is a Greatest Hit and can be had for $19.99. The second one is still very new, but it is only $39.99, and also supports online play if you decide to get the Network Adaptor.

[Agent X]

I really do need to try Frequency.

 

Now would be a really good opportunity. I read on another message board today that Sears had Frequency, Ico, Okage, and Airblade for $9.99 each. With that in mind, I went to Sears today, and I managed to pick up Frequency for only $9.97. (Yes, two cents cheaper than I expected. )

 

I don't know how long this sale is on (or if that's the regular price now), but I just thought I'd share that with you.

[Numan]

Shadow of Destiny (suprisingly good, worth a rental)

Rez

Devil May Cry

 

I'd rather someone play GTA:VC than smoke.