Rybags Posted July 1, 2011 Share Posted July 1, 2011 (edited) PRIOR 0 PM ORed mode can't be used in the game. Everything would be affected. Colour schemes, IMO should just be preset. Assuming memory isn't a problem there's no reason why several types of background could be used with several coloursets for each of them. Also, I think this "one colour, 3 lumas" is becoming apparent. Nothing wrong with mixing things up a bit e.g. dark brown + medium green + bright yellow. Edited July 1, 2011 by Rybags Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
José Pereira Posted July 1, 2011 Author Share Posted July 1, 2011 PRIOR 0 PM ORed mode can't be used in the game. Everything would be affected. That's what I am saying. Colour schemes, IMO should just be preset. Assuming memory isn't a problem there's no reason why several types of background could be used with several coloursets for each of them. Also, I think this "one colour, 3 lumas" is becoming apparent. Nothing wrong with mixing things up a bit e.g. dark brown + medium green + bright yellow. There's no problem if each one could choose it's game pallete because there's no PRIOR0 in use. And yes, some different colours instead of the one colour with two luminances (only White and Black seems the right for all lookings and no discussion) could add some better loooking to the screen. What would really be good would be have a kind of a waterfall in the Middle. (but the scroll of the Parallax Middle Layer need to invert it's direction) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heaven/TQA Posted July 1, 2011 Share Posted July 1, 2011 Not to destroy but if you get/have 2or3 chars left to use on the Middle Layer and instead of moving it slowly in the actual direction inverse it's direction into will look a Waterfall (with those 2or3chars and good dithering of the Blue/White colours) The colours/luminances can be choosen also on Tittle screen by the Player, everyone would be happy if they can choose the colours/luminances in the A8 Pallete. And this is not a problem as it is nothing in PRIOR0 'Oring' Mode. I also get it higher(but not on bottom to don't have the 240th scanline problem...) and intend to show what's my idea for get 2PMs (the ones from the Objects) to the scoring above Gfxs leaving the 2PMs. Multicolour for 'our guy' Another thing that might look better it's if the Platform PF3 would use a Red(colour2or3) instead of Blue. Blue above Gray or Blue Gfxs. probably the ones more choosen by the Players...) aren't the best choose (everyone could also choose colours/luminances of the Platforms). Just my idea but it woul need a good dithering on the Middle Layer and with the reverse direction slowly it will certainly look a Waterfall: (just try this moving it like it it is now but inverse direction) If not now, but at least try it when the final version with Playing is released and also the possiblity with the scores overlay... Greets. José Pereira. hmm... like the waterfall idea somehow... you could sacrifice 1 player for it and deal with it like on Mega Drive which does not have alpha channel, too... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rybags Posted July 1, 2011 Share Posted July 1, 2011 Yes, I reckon the waterfall idea is good. 3 rock layers going up + waterfall going down would be cool. Sure, the whole look of the game might defy a logical physics look, but who cares? You don't get platforms in canyons like that in nature anyway, only in Road Runner cartoons. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
José Pereira Posted July 1, 2011 Author Share Posted July 1, 2011 Not to destroy but if you get/have 2or3 chars left to use on the Middle Layer and instead of moving it slowly in the actual direction inverse it's direction into will look a Waterfall (with those 2or3chars and good dithering of the Blue/White colours) The colours/luminances can be choosen also on Tittle screen by the Player, everyone would be happy if they can choose the colours/luminances in the A8 Pallete. And this is not a problem as it is nothing in PRIOR0 'Oring' Mode. I also get it higher(but not on bottom to don't have the 240th scanline problem...) and intend to show what's my idea for get 2PMs (the ones from the Objects) to the scoring above Gfxs leaving the 2PMs. Multicolour for 'our guy' Another thing that might look better it's if the Platform PF3 would use a Red(colour2or3) instead of Blue. Blue above Gray or Blue Gfxs. probably the ones more choosen by the Players...) aren't the best choose (everyone could also choose colours/luminances of the Platforms). Just my idea but it woul need a good dithering on the Middle Layer and with the reverse direction slowly it will certainly look a Waterfall: (just try this moving it like it it is now but inverse direction) If not now, but at least try it when the final version with Playing is released and also the possiblity with the scores overlay... Greets. José Pereira. hmm... like the waterfall idea somehow... you could sacrifice 1 player for it and deal with it like on Mega Drive which does not have alpha channel, too... We don't need to have any PM there. Here is shown that with white and the middle luminance (that is already the one used there) you can get a really cool looking. 2or3chars for a clever Gfxs. with dithering and see the looking difference. And the other Trick is that I put White (or even the Middle luminance are at the Layer 'next to Waterfall' Layers) This way it will certainly add the feeling that they aren't independant Layers, something like the Waterfall Water also gets some pixels/water over the Walls... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heaven/TQA Posted July 1, 2011 Share Posted July 1, 2011 using one player could help in an additional color and you could do additional scanline coloring plus different speeds etc etc etc... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rybags Posted July 1, 2011 Share Posted July 1, 2011 Split colour zones, I don't know really... maybe it's one of those things that needs to be tried. It would probably work well if just the secondary colours undergo change, e.g. the minor lumas of the rocks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted July 1, 2011 Share Posted July 1, 2011 MK... but you have to respect "us coders" when we don't want to implement things simply because we don't want... Again: No need to tell Sheddy what he has to do with the game, because all the needed for the game is in there. Well, the sound is another story It would be easier, if coders do want what is needed to finish the product. Not just hammering some ideas together, and with the 1st problem changing their mind Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irgendwer Posted July 1, 2011 Share Posted July 1, 2011 (edited) It would be easier, if coders do want what is needed to finish the product. Not just hammering some ideas together, and with the 1st problem changing their mind Why do you expect things from coders you aren't able to do? Edit: Is this the old 'better NO application than one which don't fit my expectations' thing (e.g. RMT)? Edited July 1, 2011 by Irgendwer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted July 1, 2011 Share Posted July 1, 2011 It would be easier, if coders do want what is needed to finish the product. Not just hammering some ideas together, and with the 1st problem changing their mind Why do you expect things from coders you aren't able to do? Why do you work on a Computer others built? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heaven/TQA Posted July 1, 2011 Share Posted July 1, 2011 Simon... do we have chars left for the waterfall? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted July 1, 2011 Share Posted July 1, 2011 Simon... do we have chars left for the waterfall? We could have chars left for the waterfall. After someone starts to create the forground "not linear" .... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irgendwer Posted July 1, 2011 Share Posted July 1, 2011 (edited) Why do you work on a Computer others built? Because 'overall' I find the design quite useful. Take the A8 for example: IMHO it was the best computer at that time for an (for me) affordable price. This doesn't mean that I don't wished the machine would be better in some areas. And it has obvious restictions which may look unnecessary especially today, e.g. the lack of 16 colour registers. But I'm sure that there was a reason for that e.g. lack of design time, budget, gate limitation - whatever, in most cases I wouldn't think that pure silliness of the engineer is resposible for such limitation. There may be also artificial limitations dictated by the management (upgrade path, next revision etc.) Now to a personal 'classification' of your ideas: Most of them are, at least for me, not spectacular and self-evident. But of course some of your ideas are also alluring - but independent from being self-evident or new they may not fit into the 'budget' of the developer. So what? Does acting like a prima donna and cursing the developer helps? Will this be good for his motivation? What do you loose personal, if a free program doesn't fit your expectations? This thread is a perfect example for me, why I abstain from developing projects 'in public'. This is a hobby and I don't want being pushed when trying to have fun and implement MY ideas and realize MY expectations on the old machine. I think nearly everybody is pushed already enough in 'normal life', so I fully understand developers if they here just don't do things! BTW: Maybe we will see a renaissance of A8 developments in a few years when we all are retired and have more time for our hobby - and all things about it are already said here... Edited July 1, 2011 by Irgendwer 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sack-c0s Posted July 1, 2011 Share Posted July 1, 2011 Dammit - I was going to have a swing at the C64 version but I just got a warning that release is coming up pretty damn soon so it's looking like I'll be saying goodbye to weekends and evenings for a short while. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heaven/TQA Posted July 1, 2011 Share Posted July 1, 2011 crunch time, Sack? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted July 1, 2011 Share Posted July 1, 2011 Now to a personal 'classification' of your ideas:Most of them are, at least for me, not spectacular and self-evident. The light of the sun isn't that spectacular to a blind man But of course some of your ideas are also alluring - but independent from being self-evident or new they may not fit into the 'budget' of the developer. LOL. What Budget? If someone finds the time to do something.... what budget? So what? Does acting like a prima donna and cursing the developer helps? Will this be good for his motivation? Depends on how someone gets it. Doing it for fun is a good motivation anyways. What do you loose personal, if a free program doesn't fit your expectations? Losing? Nothing! But , only exceptional stuff gets exceptional response. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irgendwer Posted July 1, 2011 Share Posted July 1, 2011 (edited) The light of the sun isn't that spectacular to a blind man These are the replies, you making friends with. LOL. What Budget? If someone finds the time to do something.... what budget? IMHO for many members here, time is something very precious. And yes, this is also a kind of 'budget'. Depends on how someone gets it. Doing it for fun is a good motivation anyways. Did you ever get the feeling, that some of your replies may take the fun away? But , only exceptional stuff gets exceptional response. Taking into account how many projects do you 'valued' with 'exceptional' response, we can be happy to have a lot of exceptional projects. Edited July 1, 2011 by Irgendwer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted July 1, 2011 Share Posted July 1, 2011 IMHO for many members here, time is something very precious. And yes, this is also a kind of 'budget'. So time should be spent more preciously.... A good way is to know about the limits and possibilities before starting a project. Did you ever get the feeling, that some of your replies may take the fun away? Yeah. Some people feel annoyed with the signs on the street, losing fun to drive as they like Taking into account how many projects do you 'valued' with 'exceptional' response, we can be happy to have a lot of exceptional projects. It's not what "I" value.... It's what gains value from people outside the Atari world Some people really should watch the mirror, before getting personal with me. Can we now get closer to the main topic of the thread? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
José Pereira Posted July 1, 2011 Author Share Posted July 1, 2011 (edited) It's a Sin (Pet Shop Boys)... Always the same. I was soo happy with all this (and I a still am!) but why always this? For me what I really want is this game and that why, when I see Irgendwer doing the Rocks I see that he can do it best than me. Now I am trying to get best IMHO but with his Rocks. I send my constructive ideas (I think they are...) but the Rocks are from him. His Rocks and if I can add my ideas others can probably add their own... up to Simonl decide. All these Threads are always 90% or so with discussions but not about what's in the Tittle (and that's what really the Tittle are for...)... Can we have a Thread where this doesn't happen? At least once!... Just to try, probably people would like and do this all the time. I am expecting to have something more to show and wait for Simonl says something but for now here it is: -> What I thought it doesn't look good? The White on Rocks. -> But we need White for the Platforms? YES and NO!... If the Platforms are the Gfxs. that are running in the chars Vertical Fine Scrolling then we can make them with DLIs. This DLIs. aren't beggining in BadLines and like this there's no problem. -> Now Rocks can use a better Luminance. Here it's (0,12) but you could change it like all the others. (and if there are chars and Simonl agrees why not one of you try the Waterfall pixels/chars/dithering? ) I will try to send you some more proposal(s) today. Let's see what Simonl will say... And guys please, please José Pereira. Edited July 1, 2011 by José Pereira Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
José Pereira Posted July 1, 2011 Author Share Posted July 1, 2011 The '.g2f' if you want to see: master_with water_try2.zip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Posted July 1, 2011 Share Posted July 1, 2011 (edited) I'm sure glad Simon is able to ignore all this ESL bickering. Edited July 1, 2011 by Bryan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted July 1, 2011 Share Posted July 1, 2011 It's a Sin (Pet Shop Boys)... Always the same. I was soo happy with all this (and I a still am!) but why always this? For me what I really want is this game and that why, when I see Irgendwer doing the Rocks I see that he can do it best than me. Now I am trying to get best IMHO but with his Rocks. I send my constructive ideas (I think they are...) but the Rocks are from him. His Rocks and if I can add my ideas others can probably add their own... up to Simonl decide. All these Threads are always 90% or so with discussions but not about what's in the Tittle (and that's what really the Tittle are for...)... Can we have a Thread where this doesn't happen? At least once!... Just to try, probably people would like and do this all the time. I am expecting to have something more to show and wait for Simonl says something but for now here it is: -> What I thought it doesn't look good? The White on Rocks. -> But we need White for the Platforms? YES and NO!... If the Platforms are the Gfxs. that are running in the chars Vertical Fine Scrolling then we can make them with DLIs. This DLIs. aren't beggining in BadLines and like this there's no problem. José , see for yourself. From a Jaguar game to this weird coloured screen. Is this "progress"? The engine looked better some releases before. Instead of turning the pattern into stones, now we have -nice looking patterns- , but turned away from the original concept. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
José Pereira Posted July 1, 2011 Author Share Posted July 1, 2011 These colours/luminances you can get the idea I had better (and also better looking, i think...): master_with water_try2.zip And the '.g2f' with this colours: master_with water_try2.zip (P.s.- Other Platforms Gfxs. can also be designed this way, just a question of imagination) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
José Pereira Posted July 1, 2011 Author Share Posted July 1, 2011 José , see for yourself. From a Jaguar game to this weird coloured screen. Is this "progress"? The engine looked better some releases before. Instead of turning the pattern into stones, now we have -nice looking patterns- , but turned away from the original concept. I start this Topic but never send/show any Rocks. Had the GTIA idea and Simonl want to continue with ANTIC4. Irgendwer cames in with 1st Gfxs. and I say some ideas about the luminances... Irgendwer cames with his 2nd Gfxs. and Luminances (much better). Anyone cames with some Rocks Gfxs.? NO! I don't know how to design Rocks. Irgendwer also or don't want to... Simonl probably isn't good at Paint/Brush/Design Gfxs... Where's the Rocks Gfxs. like in the Jaguar version? Anyone show them? NO, so we must use what we have. Now you call it Patterns and that they aren't Rocks? Yes but why they really need to be stones. I said, for example, in the beggining of this Thread that all the colours/luminances are free to use, all/any of them, and we can have different Gfxs. like Cannyon, Forest, Jungle,... only our Imagination it's the Limit !... Our Imagination but also our interest and of course our Gfx's capabilities Stay José Pereira. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rybags Posted July 1, 2011 Share Posted July 1, 2011 C'mon. Rocks are simple. What's the specifcation? 4x4 character or whatever it is. Design it such that the rocks interlock and make a good pattern, e.g. a big rock in the middle, then a few smaller ones that are half in the left/right and top/bottom boundaries. Then when it's all tiled together you have something that looks natural... albeit a bit repetitive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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