simonl Posted June 25, 2011 Share Posted June 25, 2011 Raster bars suck - they're just too 1982. Hey, you can never be too 1982 - maybe I can get some Flock of Seagulls or Wang Chung music on there as well I was thinking of doing something with multiple changes per line from a single hue, but this will require some fancy VCOUNT checking. Can the "Downfall" text be moved smoothly up/down ? The idea I have is maybe have the letters fall down one at a time, then have the entire logo go down/up in sort of Dropzone fashion. Then put some Mode 2 lines under the title with the normal cycling of instructions, story, high scores and the like. Having some scrolling landscape underneath that would probably be a nice effect too. Even if the lettering can't move smoothly, doing it by character boundary might be OK if it's done quickly anyway. The lettering can move smoothly en-masse, to move each letter individually would be by char, unless the outline moves in (as PMGs) and is then filled when it arrives. It could even fade in as it moves in or something. Score - I reckon the top of screen. Most arcade games do it that way. Bottom of screen you're really wanting to be keeping an eye out for new platforms and bonuses appearing and other stuff there would just be a distraction. Actually, anything extra at the bottom would spoil the "abyss" feeling. Yep, think you're right with this, I'll update the main loop's DL and upload a new version so you can see. 16K - Why worry? Unless you have some aspirations of entering a 4K minigame comp, just make it for 48K machines. I'm thinking of a potential 5200 version, so the code will be bigger than 16k but RAM is tight. The 48k/64k file version may well be a lot smaller as the char data can be shifted after load rather than preshifted at assembly time as it is now. As Jose suggests it would be nice if this game was available for any Atari platform, as there's already VCS and Jag. Also I'm the kind of masochist who resents giving any RAM and cycles away. On that note, voice samples - could have a bunch of those, which could be loaded as segments after everyting else. Have the program do a RAM test and just quit the loading according to your RAM size. Sounds like a plan, the loader will already need to do PAL/NTSC detection and load the corresponding tables, I may give you a shout nearer the time. Are you thinking pokey interrupts for the voice? Cheers, Simon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rybags Posted June 25, 2011 Share Posted June 25, 2011 OK, I'll rephrase one part - Raster bars are the "Hello World" of Atari assembly programming. They just look too cheap in most cases and were done to death. Just look at the almost total lack of them in recent releases, people have finally realised it. Voice stuff - Timers would be an absolute must. Probably via IRQ rather than polling to let the main loop be free to do stuff. Of course there's the dreaded "NMI lockout" problem (recently discussed in another thread) but there's ways around that. PAL/NTSC - if the table data isn't too large, just load both, move the needed one to it's needed location then ditch the unneeded. Another thing, I've tended to use dynamic PAL/NTSC check in recent projects since we can change on the fly in emulation, although this type of thing was mainly in relation to game timers and music playback. 16K RAM, fair enough. Maybe keep the core RAM usage there so a "lite" version becomes a straight port, let all the extravegant stuff like voice samples etc live in higher memory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted June 25, 2011 Share Posted June 25, 2011 4 channel quick conversion. bosbos.xex 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rybags Posted June 25, 2011 Share Posted June 25, 2011 (edited) I've got another idea from the bloatware department for the title screen. It'll cost at least 1K or so for the needed font. How about interleaved hires with multicolour text? This can be achieved by using the GTIA back to normal mode trick. ie, use the trick to give multicolour in otherwise Mode 2 lines. This is needed for the terrain. On the hires lines, use a large font which uses 2 x 2 characters to give big letters for the text, have the terrain dimmed a bit where the text is so it stands out better. This might even work OK for the score area. ed - or maybe not. I just realised it won't work too well since the thing is scrolling. Would work with static graphics but the effect wouldn't be anywhere near as good. Edited June 25, 2011 by Rybags Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted June 25, 2011 Share Posted June 25, 2011 I've got another idea from the bloatware department for the title screen. It'll cost at least 1K or so for the needed font. How about interleaved hires with multicolour text? This can be achieved by using the GTIA back to normal mode trick. Don't forget there is a charmode based scrolling background. How would you manage that ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonl Posted June 25, 2011 Share Posted June 25, 2011 4 channel quick conversion. I think that strikes the right balance between extreme Nintendo cheerfulness and manic tempo If you fancy taking the instrumentation further with portamento, vibrato etc I'd be most grateful. Do you think running the RMT player twice per frame would be beneficial in terms of the timing? I'll try and squeeze the game engine so the timing critical stuff is all in immediate vblank. Cheers, Simon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted June 25, 2011 Share Posted June 25, 2011 4 channel quick conversion. I think that strikes the right balance between extreme Nintendo cheerfulness and manic tempo If you fancy taking the instrumentation further with portamento, vibrato etc I'd be most grateful. Do you think running the RMT player twice per frame would be beneficial in terms of the timing? I'll try and squeeze the game engine so the timing critical stuff is all in immediate vblank. Cheers, Simon Something like this? bosbosp.xex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rybags Posted June 25, 2011 Share Posted June 25, 2011 The scheme I suggested is doable, but depends how many different possible characters can be in any one column, and how many character sets are onscreen. It's a case of dynamically generating characters with the text and graphics overlayed. I haven't looked at the way this scrolling engine works, so it mightn't be suitable to use with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonl Posted June 25, 2011 Share Posted June 25, 2011 Something like this? bosbosp.xex Indeed! What do you think of the other mod file ? It's quite gloomy, but I like the atmosphere, reminds me of TE_MOD (in the ASMA archive, from some old Satantronic demo I think). Cheers, Simon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonl Posted June 25, 2011 Share Posted June 25, 2011 The scheme I suggested is doable, but depends how many different possible characters can be in any one column, and how many character sets are onscreen. It's a case of dynamically generating characters with the text and graphics overlayed. I haven't looked at the way this scrolling engine works, so it mightn't be suitable to use with it. I've been thinking of ways to have a slice of the background visible on the left and right of the text area, possibly by just reserving enough chars in the text area's (multicolor) character set, as especially for a high score table it would look nice to have the scores' box floating over a surrounding scrolling background. There are only two versions of the left most and right most tiles (it offsets 4 scanlines per frame) so that would be x chars width * 5 high * 2 versions * 2 for left and right sides reserved which is probably doable so say for a 3 char window on each side that would be 3 * 5 * 2 * 2 = 60 chars. Noone likes lower case text in video games anyway . The scrolling area on the front will probably need to be full width though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rybags Posted June 25, 2011 Share Posted June 25, 2011 I notice the game uses VSCROL so having static text becomes a bit harder. But in the title screen, the text area could be non scrolled, the variants of the 2 characters in question could be included in the text chset, then just change them as required to keep the effect working. Also, I don't know if it helps, but you don't need the platforms on the title screen. Is VSCROL only needed for the platforms, or do the layers also rely on it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonl Posted June 25, 2011 Share Posted June 25, 2011 I notice the game uses VSCROL so having static text becomes a bit harder. But in the title screen, the text area could be non scrolled, the variants of the 2 characters in question could be included in the text chset, then just change them as required to keep the effect working. Also, I don't know if it helps, but you don't need the platforms on the title screen. Is VSCROL only needed for the platforms, or do the layers also rely on it? The title screen doesn't use VSCROL (different display list to the main loop) currently, although I may reenable it for moving the letters etc. if I'm going for the bloatware version. The layers are working solely from CHBAS/CHBASE. The (multicolor) text charset would be as you describe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted June 25, 2011 Share Posted June 25, 2011 The tune is full of synth sweeps. Not really to handle yet. So here another 4chn version.... slowm.xex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
José Pereira Posted June 25, 2011 Author Share Posted June 25, 2011 Hi guys. Simonl GTIA9 is totally out of question...right? I still think it could look a real good IMHO with some good Rocks design... and that would be really good Rocks Luminances graduation. With only 3+1colour for the Grays the different Parallax Layers could seem always the same colour when they need to be more darker when they come into the middle. And more of the same if you go into a Platform that have better looking Gfxs. like that GTIA Metalic I show. I think Irgenwinder is on a good way as he's going more darker and the Rocks size reduce into the middle. I try that with my Methalic Platform and it doesn't look very different from Gfxs. But sure other Platforms Gfx's may look better: It also seems better to have a Dark PaleGreen (colour14) and others Gray/White soo that things don't get a little Monochrome... That's my idea. I also change the PFs. colours because the Light colour was PF2... (PF2-White seems better than LightGray) Light colour is the less used on the Gfxs., only on the sides. If the Plaform will have PF3 then PF2 must be one of the other Grays. Here you have the colours and PFs I choose on your Gfxs: fd with jose.zip Greets. José Pereira. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
José Pereira Posted June 25, 2011 Author Share Posted June 25, 2011 Oops. all in Gray... here's the PaleGreen: And these are G2F colours/Luminances sure the PaleGreen looks more Terrain in Emulators like 'Laoo' Pallete or in real Machines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted June 25, 2011 Share Posted June 25, 2011 Oops. all in Gray... here's the PaleGreen: And these are G2F colours/Luminances sure the PaleGreen looks more Terrain in Emulators like 'Laoo' Pallete or in real Machines. The stones in the foreground could be much larger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
José Pereira Posted June 25, 2011 Author Share Posted June 25, 2011 The way I see Things, here's my proposal: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonl Posted June 25, 2011 Share Posted June 25, 2011 Simonl GTIA9 is totally out of question...right? Yes, I think for this game 160 wide is more suitable, especially once we put the player and objects on top, otherwise I think the contrast would be too jarring. fd with jose.zip Those graphics look great, if you can get them to the right tile sizes I can plug them in to the engine and see what they look like, as it's difficult to see how they work until they're moving (especially the outermost rows). The left most tile is 6 x 4, the next is 5 x 3, the next is 4 x 2, the last is 3 x 2. The middle part is currently just one char. I can mirror the right side automatically so don't worry about that. Cheers, Simon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonl Posted June 25, 2011 Share Posted June 25, 2011 The tune is full of synth sweeps. Not really to handle yet. So here another 4chn version.... slowm.xex Sounds like it will be a tricky one to get right, but I like the lead melody on it. Do you think it's too much trouble to get it sounding good throughout? Thanks, Simon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
José Pereira Posted June 25, 2011 Author Share Posted June 25, 2011 Simonl GTIA9 is totally out of question...right? Yes, I think for this game 160 wide is more suitable, especially once we put the player and objects on top, otherwise I think the contrast would be too jarring. fd with jose.zip Those graphics look great, if you can get them to the right tile sizes I can plug them in to the engine and see what they look like, as it's difficult to see how they work until they're moving (especially the outermost rows). The left most tile is 6 x 4, the next is 5 x 3, the next is 4 x 2, the last is 3 x 2. The middle part is currently just one char. I can mirror the right side automatically so don't worry about that. Cheers, Simon Those Gfxs. are from Irgendwer I just change PFs. and try to get other Platform Gfxs. But I think he needs to change some of the way the Rocks are using the colours (like I write on that PAINT explanation screen) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rybags Posted June 25, 2011 Share Posted June 25, 2011 Larger rocks for the foreground (naturally). Another thing that'd help is to use the bright luma more for the foreground and make the darker ones more dominant in the second. Lowest layer probably don't use the brightest one at all. How about the platforms ? Is it really necessary that they're the only ones to use PF3 ? The extra colour could provide that extra luma level for more depth perception. I reckon the girder look for the platforms looks better too. Sure they should be "transparent" with the rocks showing through, but it's obviously not going to be possible. I also think maybe the very innermost part should have a horizon ? Gives the impression of a distant waterfall or something, but it might work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonl Posted June 25, 2011 Share Posted June 25, 2011 Those Gfxs. are from Irgendwer I just change PFs. and try to get other Platform Gfxs. But I think he needs to change some of the way the Rocks are using the colours (like I write on that PAINT explanation screen) Yep, I spotted that just after I posted (I had a late night until 4am drawing the title screen so I'm not at my best today ) I think they look great with the metal platforms as they stand out more from the background due to the solid edges, the other platforms look nice static but there can be nasty effect where the pixels of the background layers look like they are "popping out" of the tops of the platforms. I'll try and combine the two tomorrow and put up an xex so you and Irgendwer can have a look at the whole thing in motion. Cheers, Simon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonl Posted June 25, 2011 Share Posted June 25, 2011 How about the platforms ? Is it really necessary that they're the only ones to use PF3 ? No, you can use it anywhere, but I think it's good to highlight the foreground as much as possible. Artist's discretion I also think maybe the very innermost part should have a horizon ? Gives the impression of a distant waterfall or something, but it might work. I think I have about 0 chars left based on my last calculations, I'll do a recount when I've added in the platform and tile graphics tomorrow. Certainly a more interesting pattern than four horizontal gray lines may help. Cheers, Simon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Posted June 25, 2011 Share Posted June 25, 2011 Oooo... you know what would look slick... If you made a Gr. 9 screen, but changed the hue with each band. The 5th player trick would keep you from having to line things up precisely, but it would still require CPU involvement over the whole screen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted June 25, 2011 Share Posted June 25, 2011 The tune is full of synth sweeps. Not really to handle yet. So here another 4chn version.... slowm.xex Sounds like it will be a tricky one to get right, but I like the lead melody on it. Do you think it's too much trouble to get it sounding good throughout? Thanks, Simon Hm... Actually no idea what you want to have "better" , if you like the lead already The tune uses bass-sweep. Well, if you can path RMT to use some software based waveforms, we're back in Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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