DutchC64 Posted September 27, 2011 Share Posted September 27, 2011 hey dudes i got a lot of cas (and wav) files which will not boot in atirra. any want to give it a go? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kr0tki Posted September 27, 2011 Share Posted September 27, 2011 Why haven't you posted them in the first place? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phaeron Posted September 28, 2011 Share Posted September 28, 2011 There are a couple of known issues with Altirra tape support: it does not yet support turbo encoding (non-FSK), and it will not read a .CAS file that has baud rates too high for regular FSK encoding. You can encode 6000 baud sectors in a CAS file even though a regular tape drive cannot support it (you need to bypass the FSK filters). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DutchC64 Posted September 28, 2011 Author Share Posted September 28, 2011 Uhm I thought it was me Are there any other Atari EMU's with better CAS support and with the option to actually use the OPTION key? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
www.atarimania.com Posted September 28, 2011 Share Posted September 28, 2011 What are the files you couldn't get to work? Are you sure you're loading them properly? Not all of them require to have OPTION pressed, some need to be CLOADed then RUN, others work with the RUN"C: command... -- Atari Frog http://www.atarimania.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rost Posted September 28, 2011 Share Posted September 28, 2011 Option key in Emu = disable Basic beside Cload and Run "c:" there ist Enter "C:" too. You can first convert the wav into cas With wav2cas, margotrans, a8cas so you can see, if the problem ist the wav-file (you get errors while converting) or the loading-method Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DutchC64 Posted September 28, 2011 Author Share Posted September 28, 2011 Here's a sample from my donkey kong tape. After 39 seconds Altirra stops loading. If anyone can get this working....I'll have LOADZZZZ more DONKEYK.zip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kr0tki Posted September 28, 2011 Share Posted September 28, 2011 (edited) This is not a tape recording. This WAV file was artificially created, probably from a CAS file that was itself invalid. Do you have an original recording? Edited September 28, 2011 by Kr0tki Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey Z Posted September 29, 2011 Share Posted September 29, 2011 for anyone who sees this, I helped him figure this out in #atari on irc.newnet.net today. it turns out some of the tapes wouldn't work with the sio patch and he was also trying to run ntsc in pal mode. don't know why that caused a problem but when he disabled pal, they worked. most of them anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DutchC64 Posted September 29, 2011 Author Share Posted September 29, 2011 hey joey! Thank for the help man. Trying the tapes as we speak. a lot of em are working in NTSC mode and not in PAL mode..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
serj Posted September 29, 2011 Share Posted September 29, 2011 Avery, there is a lot of tapes that work fine on the emulator Atari 800 winplus 4.0 and do not work on altirra. I recorded the video so you can compare the load in both emulators. also in the archive contains the problematic tapes. see here: http://www.megaupload.com/?d=RKZJV119 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phaeron Posted September 29, 2011 Share Posted September 29, 2011 The WAV file is definitely synthesized and not from a real tape. I took a look at what was going on, and the problem is that there is a gap in the tape that is too short at 1:08.44 - 1:08.63 (190ms). During this time the loader copies a block of memory and then issues another SIO read call, but the problem is that even in short IRG mode the OS still wants to delay for 10 VBLANKs before waiting for the baud rate determination bytes, which is too long (~170ms in NTSC). This causes the OS to miss the beginning of the next block. Altirra is able to load the tape in SIO patch mode because when that is enabled the emulator itself handles the tape read -- it uses a much shorter IRG gap and can begin scanning the tape immediately. Kr0tki, what do you think? You have more experience with tape than I do. I was always a disk kind of guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
serj Posted September 29, 2011 Share Posted September 29, 2011 And what with usual tapes which were laid out by me, there it is more difficult than an error? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DutchC64 Posted September 29, 2011 Author Share Posted September 29, 2011 dudes.... I just made my own first CAS file. it's a game written FULLY in basic. A donkey kong clone. you load it by mounting your tape and type CLOAD I grew up thinking this game was called Crazy Kong, but in fact it's just called Kong CrazyKong.zip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kr0tki Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 The WAV file is definitely synthesized and not from a real tape. I took a look at what was going on, and the problem is that there is a gap in the tape that is too short at 1:08.44 - 1:08.63 (190ms). That is indeed the case (I wonder why I haven't noticed it before). The IRGs are too short - this tape image would not load on a real Atari. To fix it, I've extended the gaps to 250 ms. The fixed image is attached below. And what with usual tapes which were laid out by me, there it is more difficult than an error? Altirra has some serious bug in handling of CAS images. When I converted your CAS images to WAV and used them in Altirra instead, each of them loaded without problems. Some symptoms: 1. When I mount serj's "Blinky's Scary School (1990)(Zeppelin Games)(GB).cas" image in Altirra and go to Cassette->Tape control, it reports the image's length as 1:49.9. In reality the image is much longer - the WAV version is over 15 minutes long. 2. Audio playback for CAS files is incorrect - during IRGs a SPACE tone is played instead of MARK. DONKEYK.zip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phaeron Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 1. When I mount serj's "Blinky's Scary School (1990)(Zeppelin Games)(GB).cas" image in Altirra and go to Cassette->Tape control, it reports the image's length as 1:49.9. In reality the image is much longer - the WAV version is over 15 minutes long. Hmm, good catch. I tracked this down to some broken code I had added to check for and strip a bogus $FF byte prior to the OS $5555 sync pattern and which was causing the reader to desync on this tape. Now I have to try to track down which tape had that $FF problem. 2. Audio playback for CAS files is incorrect - during IRGs a SPACE tone is played instead of MARK. Yup, tones were swapped. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mclaneinc Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 inter emu collaboration, how it should be.. Well done guys.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
serj Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 using the "mago trans 1.7" I convert all the files stored in the cas archive "cas problems" in wav files. as a result of the 24 games - were loaded 15. not work as well: Blinky's Scary School (1990) (Zeppelin Games) (GB) kasiarz Side A is loaded only in games: Top Secret Yogi's Great Escape loading comes to side B but does not go further. need "play" button for the cassette player? weird loadings: Alley Cat (synapse software) crystal castles (aarea) (nw) gladiator (nw) inny_swiat_fix_loader_ape (nw) Green Beret (sio-patch off) - this game is loaded with SIO-PATCH off, but a wav file of the game is not loading. testing on altirra 2.0 test 41. thanks Kr0tki ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kr0tki Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 (edited) Serj, note that some of your images are bad dumps. Blinky has too short leader tone and Crystal Castles has a missing gap between records - I'm attaching fixed images. (On a technical level, most of your images are bad - they either contain additional bytes of data at the end of some records, or stray bytes of data in the middle of a leader tone - they work only because the OS ignores this additional data.) kasiarz Works correctly. It bypasses the OS load routines so the SIO patch doesn't speed the loading up, but it loads correctly. Top Secret Works for me. When the game asks for Side B, you just mount it and press any key. Yogi's Great Escape Indeed. The Cassette->Load option doesn't work in Altirra after the OS load routine starts (indicated by the "beep" sound and waiting for a keypress). For this reason it is not possible to mount Side B correctly after Side A loads, because after loading Side A the game launches the OS load routine immediately. In Atari800 you can mount a tape image at any moment (even when the tape motor is on) and therefore it works. Phaeron, can you think of changing this behaviour? Alley Cat (synapse software) I think it's a bad crack. Just delete it and get the Americana tape image from Atarimania. gladiator (nw) Works with SIO patch disabled. inny_swiat_fix_loader_ape (nw) Yup, here's a problem. The image is correct (although it's a crack, not an original) and works in Atari800 with SIO patch disabled. Phaeron would need to look at it. Green Beret (sio-patch off) - this game is loaded with SIO-PATCH off, but a wav file of the game is not loading. Huh? It works for me. blinky-ccastles-fixed.zip Edited October 4, 2011 by Kr0tki Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heaven/TQA Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 ok... now I ask... why the hell should we spend time on CAS file support when most of the games are available as EXE or ATRs??? ok... just kidding but I am wondering... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rybags Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 All in the name of emulation accuracy and authentic feel, I suppose. And some masochists like to endure the actual load time of the old games to help with bringing back the memories. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heaven/TQA Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 ah... and the monotone tone beeping... but I can have that by switching on my 800 gear and pressing OPTION... could turn that into MP3 and put it on my iPhone as ringtone... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mclaneinc Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 Sigh, emulation purists, don't ya just hate em... The day I got my 810 was like the sun coming out after what seemed like an eternity of cloudy miserable loading times. The idea of sitting there enduring that endless session of horrible beeps and whining noises fill my soul with dread But I guess as its an emulator it should emulate correctly.... (don't do it Phaeron, run for the hills ) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phaeron Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 To be perfectly clear, I have always viewed programs stored on cassette tape to be an unreliable, frustrating, time-wasting, and utterly life-draining vile invention. That I still have to wait an appreciable amount of time for a tape to load even emulating a system at over 1500% faster than it ever originally ran only reinforces this belief, and having to dig through pages of logs to figure out why a tape load failed only adds further reasons for me not to spend time on emulating an experience that is as awful today as it was twenty years ago on the Atari, C64, CoCo, Apple II, TRS-80 Model 4, and any other 8-bit system I have ever owned or used tape with. This is why I go out of my way to emulate arcane pieces of hardware than spend more time working on tape support. That having been said, what makes tape slightly cool on Atari and the reason I bothered at all originally is the audio track, and in particular programs that use narration. For some reason my current build doesn't load Henry's House with acceleration disabled, so I have to dig into that first as that used to work. I need to spend some time improving diagnostics because it's truly a pain to diagnose these issues right now. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+bf2k+ Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 To be perfectly clear, I have always viewed programs stored on cassette tape to be an unreliable, frustrating, time-wasting, and utterly life-draining vile invention. Ditto to that ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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