Resellers of homebrews etc. should be banned from further releases

[+thegoldenband]

I know, it upsets some cardinal rule of homebrew collecting that seems to escape rational people....

 

I think it's possible to be rational -- and recognize people's right to do with their property as they see fit -- while still realizing that some forms of behavior exhibit that elusive quality known as "class", and other forms don't. Sometimes it's possible to make a lot of money while losing a lot of class in the process -- for instance, if an Atariage member gives away something in the free thread, and the recipient turns around and sells it for big bucks. Everyone has to decide for themselves what their priorities are.

[SoulBlazer]

Yes, if you refused to sell to me because I had, in the past sold something that angered you, I would most likely just get a friend to order it for me.... There is no stopping this and whining about it makes people look foolish....

 

So you think scumbags like bigbadseaserpent should be allowed to buy more homebrews?

 

eBay Auction -- Item Number: 130605978931

 

Absolutely, he has 100% feedback and is providing a service for fellow gamers....

 

I know, it upsets some cardinal rule of homebrew collecting that seems to escape rational people....

 

I don't know if it applies in THIS case, but I have a question....

 

How is it a service for his fellow gamers if 1) The price is over 100 percent more then what it sold for and 2) the game is still available?

 

That's the part I have a issue with. If the game is no longer available, then the guy can sell for it whatever he wants....let supply and demand dictate it. But don't buy up X numbers of game Y for $50 and then sell them on EBay a week later (with the game still available from the publisher) for $100.

[boxpressed]

It's not as if we in the U.S. live in a totally capitalist, free market economy. You can't sell meth and not go to jail if you're caught. You can't even sell a product by saying that it does something that it doesn't (just ask Mattel about their Keyboard Component) and avoid consequences. You can't sell bootleg videogames without risk. So this isn't a conversation about how capitalism will win out regardless of our concerns as videogame collectors. Capitalism has always been regulated by social ethics in the U.S. Those ethics are constantly shifting.

[A_Locomotive]

Today I've noticed that a copy of "War" for the Astrocade has shown up on eBay: eBay Auction -- Item Number: 180760194895

 

If people resell homebews/reproductions/special editions for a profit they should be banned from buying further releases. They take others the chance to get a copy just for their own profit. I suggest a blacklist of such people.

 

What do you think?

 

If people are buying them exclusively to re sell them at a profit I agree but just because someone is selling something for more then they originally paid doesn't make them a bad person trying to prevent others from getting something they want. Sometimes people just need money, shit happens in life and there is no reason they should be barred from something for trying to get the most they can.

[Andre81]

If people are buying them exclusively to re sell them at a profit I agree but just because someone is selling something for more then they originally paid doesn't make them a bad person trying to prevent others from getting something they want. Sometimes people just need money, shit happens in life and there is no reason they should be barred from something for trying to get the most they can.

 

I agree, but the seller of "War" for example should now be banned from the second print of the game. I leaves a very bad taste in my mouth that just after a second print is in the works a copy shows up on eBay.

[OldSchoolRetroGamer]

Yes, if you refused to sell to me because I had, in the past sold something that angered you, I would most likely just get a friend to order it for me.... There is no stopping this and whining about it makes people look foolish....

 

So you think scumbags like bigbadseaserpent should be allowed to buy more homebrews?

 

eBay Auction -- Item Number: 130605978931

 

Absolutely, because he paid what was asked for it initially fulfilling his obligation to the developer and can do as he pleases with it afterward. Hey it may not be what you would do, or what I would do but it is his right just as it is someone else's right to over pay him for it. It's freedom regardless of your personal issue with it.

[A_Locomotive]

If people are buying them exclusively to re sell them at a profit I agree but just because someone is selling something for more then they originally paid doesn't make them a bad person trying to prevent others from getting something they want. Sometimes people just need money, shit happens in life and there is no reason they should be barred from something for trying to get the most they can.

 

I agree, but the seller of "War" for example should now be banned from the second print of the game. I leaves a very bad taste in my mouth that just after a second print is in the works a copy shows up on eBay.

 

I understand where your coming from believe me, I was just commenting on how broad of a generalization your first post was. I'm a music addict and a lot of the artists I like but stuff out in limited releases. Natch a huge number of copies pop up on ebay not long after release with crazy buy it nows. Which is infuriating seeing as sometimes these releases will sell out before I'm even aware of them and often times never see a reprint and I sure as hell am not going to pay what these things can sell for at times. One thing the record labels I like often do to curb things like this is allowing people only order 1 copy. If they attempt to order more then 1 they lose out on the chance of buying it entirely which while not perfect is probably the closest to as real a solution to the problem as possible.

[Stan]

Didn't read the posts here, just the title, so apologies for any reiteration. I don't agree. I've resold/traded repros I had made, as well as homebrews. I mean, with the same logic you could ban people selling any game. I think the issue that needs to be made is that people should maybe be put on a 'shit list' if they resell in an UNETHICAL fashion, like the time when tons of eBay fools were reselling Earthbound (NES) repros and pretending they were prototypes. Other sellers say what they are, but in a VERY sneaky fashion where it's hidden in the auction in such a way that most people would miss it. But people that sell it CLEARLY listing what it is, I have no problem with.

[ianoid]

There are no laws against douchebaggery. Not even here.

[icemanxp300]

First off If someone buys a game for $50 and an hour later puts it up for $300 so what. Reselling is what this economy lives on. Where you think Wal-Mart or Gamestop gets their games from? Heres a hint, they don't make them.

 

Secondly if anyone is willing to pay out $300 for an item that is still regulary available for $50 whos fault is that? They have a computer, they have a search engine. So even if someone isn't int the homebrew community, they can still find the items. When you buy something you shop around, at least I always do. I always get a feel for the market value of an item before I pay for it.

 

People are allowed to ask whatever they want for items that belong to them, does it mean they will get it or you have to pay for it?

 

Again it would be nice if the homebrews were released in larger quantities at times or at the least if the makers would make more if demand is there.

[Dino]

There are no laws against douchebaggery. Not even here.

 

 

I'll add that in much the same way as buyers are entitled to do whatever they please with a game after they buy it, sellers are entitled to sell (or not to sell) to whomever they choose. To the OP, if you are passionate about this, why not maintain a register of those "resellers" that bother you so much and let homebrew sellers decide whether they want to sell to them

[ianoid]

I've always kind of felt that homebrewers should beat the resellers to the kill by doing a little eBaying themselves.

 

But it's funny, homebrewers mostly have this naivete about cash, almost always doing it for the love of the systems and the community. When people overprice stuff, runs are lower because fewer can afford it, and there is less room for profiteering, at least in the beginning. With time, the smaller run stuff can be even more lucrative to flip.

 

I think the big bucks should go to the homebrewer, so I always respect it when they save a low number or a few copies to sell on eBay.

 

Another way to combat it is to sell copies fixed price on eBay regularly.

 

I hope I never find myself on one of those blacklists. I don't resell like that routinely, but I wouldn't rule it out.

[Pixelboy]

But it's funny, homebrewers mostly have this naivete about cash, almost always doing it for the love of the systems and the community.

 

I take exception to being called 'naive'.

 

In my case, I do indeed publish ColecoVision games at the lowest prices possible, with no profit margin at all for myself. But that's my personal choice, and it mostly reflects the fact that homebrewing on "ancient" systems is a small online niche market, and even if I did charge more and drew a profit from it, this profit margin would still be nowhere near enough to recoup all the time, energy and cash I pourred over several months to get my games ready in time for the announced release date.

 

Look at it this way: If it was all about the money, I definately wouldn't waste my time with the ColecoVision. I'd make games for smartphones, and even if I were to charge only a buck per copy for my smartphone games, I'd probably still make way more money than I ever could selling ColecoVision games.

 

Making homebrews for old systems (Atari, Coleco, Inty, etc.) is a labour of love. It has to be, otherwise it's just not worth doing.

[Crazy Climber]

This is silly. The only time homebrews sell for more is if some idiot buys it without doing any research or it was a limited edition release. If you want to ban resellers from selling homebrews for profit then you should ban limited edition releases. If everything was always available the insane price hike for unobtainable homebrews would be gone. Once you buy something it's yours, you can sell it if you want.

[Zenoff64]

Hes a quick fix that can make everyone happy:

 

When a game maker makes a game limited edition with say, only 40 copies, Manufacture 40 but only put up 30 for sale on the message boards.

 

Periodically watch ebay, and whenever a "scalper" sets an absurd price, undercut him by a few dollars.

 

This way, people have no incentive to buy specifically to resell when they'll be constantly in a price war with the manufacturer, and the cost to the manufacturer and profit margin will always be larger for creator.

 

PLUS, the creator gets a premium for people who very much desire his game to fund additional runs, or new games.

 

A fun way to hold all the cards!

Edited November 24, 2011 by Zenoff64

[Miss 2600]

Yes, if you refused to sell to me because I had, in the past sold something that angered you, I would most likely just get a friend to order it for me.... There is no stopping this and whining about it makes people look foolish....

 

So you think scumbags like bigbadseaserpent should be allowed to buy more homebrews?

 

eBay Auction -- Item Number: 130605978931

 

LOL!! Let him pay the fees to put up these auctions, he's never going to get $50,000 anyway.

[psquare75]

Read this

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caveat_emptor

 

Thanks.

[Greg2600]

Sometimes it's difficult to figure out who the seller really is. Even so, in this example, War for Vectrex has been out for a decent amount of time. It's not like the person got it, and sold it the next day. 95% of the time, the seller is using the money sold to buy other things in the gaming community. If evidence is brought that the same person sells homebrews shortly after getting them multiple times, then perhaps they should be scolded.

[balrog]

If I buy something then it is mine to do what I want with it. I bought quite a few of the more rare Bally carts a year or 2 ago and thought I would never sell them. Most of these only exist in quantities less then any home brew.... but for my own reasons I did sell them. Some at a profit and some at a loss. But the point is that when I purchased them they became mine. Weather I wanted to keep them, sell them or set them on fire the choice was now mine. So the same would hold true for any home brew.

I was on the original list to purchase a War cart but I was really busy at deadline time and when I read the payment deadline email it was a couple days to late and my copy moved to the next person on the list. So here was my opportunity to get one again. I did pass on the opportunity however because my focus has turned more towards Commodore 64 items I wish to acquire.

Anyone bashing this seller has no clue why he is selling it... maybe he lost his job, maybe he wrecked his car, maybe he is a drug addict now and needs some pills or wants to get a hooker for his birthday... or perhaps he already got the hooker and now he needs money for penicillin.

Long story short... don't freakin' tell me or what to do with anything that is mine.

Edited November 27, 2011 by balrog

[20ohm20]

some pills or wants to get a hooker for his birthday

 

This gives me an idea.

[Pioneer4x4]

Hes a quick fix that can make everyone happy:

 

When a game maker makes a game limited edition with say, only 40 copies, Manufacture 40 but only put up 30 for sale on the message boards.

 

Periodically watch ebay, and whenever a "scalper" sets an absurd price, undercut him by a few dollars.

 

This way, people have no incentive to buy specifically to resell when they'll be constantly in a price war with the manufacturer, and the cost to the manufacturer and profit margin will always be larger for creator.

 

PLUS, the creator gets a premium for people who very much desire his game to fund additional runs, or new games.

 

A fun way to hold all the cards!

This makes the most sense to me!

[Jimmy Yakapucci]

That said, if homebrewers would not artificially limit the number of copies available, this practice would fall apart. I'm not advocating open runs on titles (though AA seems to be able to manage this pretty well), but open up pre-orders for xx amount of time where xx is enough time to get the word out and give people time to make a decision. If a title has pre-orders for 100 copies over 2-4 weeks, make 110 and call it good. If it has pre-orders for 10 copies over the same amount of time, make 12 and call it good. For that matter, open up the ordering until the number of orders slows to a trickle of 1 or 2 orders a week and give warning before cutting off the run

 

What is wrong with the maker putting a preset limit on how many copies will be produced? Not all people have unlimited resources. I have no problem with a maker stating that they will be making 10 or 20 or whatever copies available for sale. In your example, what happens if over 2 weeks the maker gets 100 pre-orders, but only has the resources to make 80 copies?

[pangasinan]

Today I've noticed that a copy of "War" for the Astrocade has shown up on eBay: eBay Auction -- Item Number: 180760194895

 

If people resell homebews/reproductions/special editions for a profit they should be banned from buying further releases. They take others the chance to get a copy just for their own profit. I suggest a blacklist of such people.

 

What do you think?

 

Are you a communist ??

Edited November 27, 2011 by pangasinan

[the.golden.ax]

Today I've noticed that a copy of "War" for the Astrocade has shown up on eBay: eBay Auction -- Item Number: 180760194895

 

If people resell homebews/reproductions/special editions for a profit they should be banned from buying further releases. They take others the chance to get a copy just for their own profit. I suggest a blacklist of such people.

 

What do you think?

 

Are you a communist ??

 

[98PaceCar]

That said, if homebrewers would not artificially limit the number of copies available, this practice would fall apart. I'm not advocating open runs on titles (though AA seems to be able to manage this pretty well), but open up pre-orders for xx amount of time where xx is enough time to get the word out and give people time to make a decision. If a title has pre-orders for 100 copies over 2-4 weeks, make 110 and call it good. If it has pre-orders for 10 copies over the same amount of time, make 12 and call it good. For that matter, open up the ordering until the number of orders slows to a trickle of 1 or 2 orders a week and give warning before cutting off the run

 

What is wrong with the maker putting a preset limit on how many copies will be produced? Not all people have unlimited resources. I have no problem with a maker stating that they will be making 10 or 20 or whatever copies available for sale. In your example, what happens if over 2 weeks the maker gets 100 pre-orders, but only has the resources to make 80 copies?

 

I feel like I'm being asked to summarize what is pretty clearly stated in this thread, but ok. Having a set, known cutoff point lets resellers determine if they can flip a copy for a profit as more than likely, there will be more demand than copies available. If the homebrewer is able to fill demand themselves, there is no real reason for a reseller to grab a copy to flip and the money goes to the creator of the product.

 

Now, your point about the homebrewer not having enough resources to create enough copies to fill demand is somewhat valid. However, it should be relatively simple (and in my opinion, good practice) to solicit at least a down payment as part of the presale. That money can be used to fund the manufacturing costs and helps to ensure that the people that are expressing interest are, in fact going to follow through with their order.

 

Honestly, I prefer it when I can pay for a preorder at the time I give my interest so that I don't run the risk of missing or forgetting when to send the money. Works out better for me and better for the homebrewer, so everybody wins.