What's the deal with Star Castle 2600?

[atarilovesyou]

This epicness shall culminate when the youtube videos start coming out about which game is better, lol! I'm interested to see how that turns out. If you think about it, there hasn't been this kinda discussion over versions of games since...well, I dunno, probably not that long ago BUT!...it'll be interesting to see how it turns out.

[+5-11under]

I think it's obvious which one is better.

[Jinks]

Thanks cd-w and crew for giving us star castle. without them we would not been able to play or buy the game without whats it 32k? Thats the reality!!

Everyone knows thats fact.

Everyone also knows the better game is cd-w's.

The game collectors who think that the sc version is worth more because whats that you guys spent more than 10k on it? Because its old school but done a couple years ago make zero sense to me.

[lapetino]

There's room for more than one Star Castle game and more than one approach to this. Can't we all just get along?

[Jinks]

There's room for more than one Star Castle game and more than one approach to this. Can't we all just get along?

yeah. iam going back to 7800 land. i have nothing more to say. i couldn't program a vcr so what would i know. just seemed lame and had to bring it up. but i was just being the master of the obvious.

[Keatah]

There's room for more than one Star Castle game and more than one approach to this. Can't we all just get along?

Probably not.

 

Thanks cd-w and crew for giving us star castle. without them we would not been able to play or buy the game without whats it 32k? Thats the reality!!

Everyone knows thats fact.

Everyone also knows the better game is cd-w's.

The game collectors who think that the sc version is worth more because whats that you guys spent more than 10k on it? Because its old school but done a couple years ago make zero sense to me.

 

Without cd-w pushing stuff along, sc would not have offered the options he did. Whether you like it or not I couldn't give a shit. Fact is fact! The threat of losing money is a great motivator. Like a good swift kick in the ass.

 

Neither of these games are programmed old school style, too many modern tools and know-how only available in this day and age. The programmers are old-school. But not the games. The game subject matter might be old from way back when, but certainly not the coding techniques.

Edited May 4, 2012 by Keatah

[Keatah]

Perhaps sc will end up with $16,384 or $24,576

[Miss 2600]

In my case, I'll admit I'm more excited about the flashing lights on the cartridge than anything else . . .

 

That would irritate the crap out of me. I'd spray paint it black to hide the lights.

 

I've never had a cartridge that lit up, so I don't know what it's going to be like. My eyes might be on the screen so much I don't notice them but I hope I'll be able to watch them while playing so I can learn the sequences.

[Crazy Climber]

Well, I originally typed up one of those long boring "potato-head" responses (no offense man, lol) but I opted for a much quicker, to the point response and tried to condense it to under a page....

 

Scott is a great programmer and a brilliant marketing genious. This entire thing was brilliant marketing, nothing less. The way he responded to another Star Castle release was pretty damn smart, not coincidence....intelligence. I would like to play Scott in a game of chess someday...is that an option in the kickstart?

 

I am an avid homebrew collector meaning I am part of the market for this stuff. Been in the HB scene for a while and here is my 2 cents...

 

I am going to purchase cd-w's version first and possibly exclusively. Not out of spite/etc but because cd-w is one of US. He gets what it's all about. I don't need to explain that, you either get it or you don't and guys that don't are gone pretty quick. Rob Fulop didn't get it, yes he is a great programmer but he doesn't get why people would make a game for free or very little profit. He doesn't get why people still like games from 30 year outdated technology. He just didn't get it and he's gone.

 

You have to be a true hobbiest with a true passion for atari to understand it and cd-w is and does. Hell, he DONATES his profits (100% of them!!) to help with the costs of keeping atariage going, that is LOVE for a hobby, I'm not even sure I could honestly do that. I'm not saying Scott isn't one of us but time will tell on that one, I would be quite surprised if he actually owns any other homebrews/etc, or sticks around after all this has blown over. I'm also not saying don't buy Scott's but if you do, you better buy one from cd-w too, he made his for us because we wanted to play it, not to prove anything, not to be douchy, because he was giving the fans what they want....if you only pick one I think the choice is obvious,,,,

 

- cd-w made his version for US

- Scott didn't

 

Yeah, I'm a collector so I will probably buy Scott's someday if he makes them available in a storefront or Ebay or something but it's a lower priority. One of those that will be on the "buy" list but no rush. It's a LONG list though, and in fairness to all programmers games that didn't get purchased right away from me it would be at the bottom I'll own them all someday.

 

Oh, and for all you box snobs out there don't worry about cd-w's version being a loose cart since you know Marc O (another one of US) is going to make an awesome box for it just like he did with Juno First!

 

Thats it!

btw - I still think Scotts Roadblasters on the Lynx is one of, if not THE best arcade port of that game ever made!

 

This took time to write up, and I can tell you're trying to get your points across. One of the things I don't understand (nor ever will) is why posts like this still take potshots, even when they're complimenting in other areas.

 

Do you really believe CD-W wrote his version of Star Castle for 'us'? And this idea of 'us'...well, your entire idea of 'us' is something I'm not a fan of. If you're not one of 'us', you must be ...gasp! One of ...'them'! ...and no matter how succesful Scott's work has become (and I believe it is a success by all measures), the 'us' you speak about can't seem to get over the fact that he didn't want to sell his game, which is entirely his right. You're all thinking that Scott put out the Kickstarter in reaction to CDW's game?...honestly, what sense at all does that make? He could tell us his reasoning, but I think that the benefit of being outside of the core group of hobbyist homebrewers is that you don't read into what's not there: CDW's version is out for anybody to play, via emulator, for free. How could Scott's version be 'threatened'? I could see that to be the case if CDW was planning on selling his version in the same way as other homebrewers (physical copies, manual, box, all that good stuff), but that's not the case.

 

In fact, if CDW truly wanted to release Star Castle out of this pure and good brotherly-love thing you speak of, then why did he wait until the controversy surrounding Scott's game to do it? I think he just said, "Enough of this, let's see what I can do" and programmed a very good version (from what I hear, I haven't played it). But this whole 'something for nothing' thing doesn't sit well with me. It reminds me of people stealing music and movies on the internet, to be quite honest...they do it because they can. True hobbyists (which I do consider myself as one of, not as a programmer but enthusiast/collectors of sorts) can and will pay for what they enjoy, and I have, do and will continue to do so. And if more games came out with the kind of polish that Scott's Star Castle is, I would be buying a lot more homebrews.

 

The 'us' folks may have been angry about how this great game wasn't going to be available to them without a ridiculous prices (and while I agree the original quote was ridiculous, my whole thought is this: he wrote it, his time and effort and skill, he SHOULD be allowed to charge what he wants, and not be made to feel badly about it, as many here did...maybe even me, in the beginning).

 

I have friends in different hobbies, let's take RC airplanes, for example: had he designed, built and spent over two years on an airplane, would you have any less respect for him wanting to make money on his efforts? I really can't understand this is so hard to understand.

 

Do you all think you would have gotten ANY of the great games we take for granted on the 2600 had there been no cash incentives for those early programmers? That's a rhetorical question, of course, and I truly don't mean to upset anyone by it. Just because a system is old doesn't mean that the work involved to develop games is any less valuable. The whole "this is 30 year old hardware we're talking about" argument doesn't sit with me...I'd spend $100 if I so choose on a GREAT homebrew, why not?

 

I'm also a 'box snob', lol. Yes, I know you're probably just made that comment in jest, but so what if I want a box with my cart that I'm paying my hard earned money for? I wish I got boxes with all my homebrew carts (and I've purchased at least five, right here on Atariage). I guess I'm not one of the 'us' you speak of. Thomas made some great points in his last long post, and it brought me closer to how other programmers feel over this issue. But the more I read from other "pro-CDW" (for lack of a better term), the more I'm glad I'm NOT one of those guys.

 

I want to be clear: it's tough to talk about this topic by typing, and I really don't want people to think I'm stirring the pot. It's just that some of these posts are downright laughable, and I think it's to Scott's credit that he's not responding to them (even though ya gotta know he's reading them). So all I say to those programmers out there who are spending their own time for the love of the games: make your games as fantastic as you can, don't cut corners and don't worry...there ARE people out there who are still willing to pay for good games, 30 year old hardware or not.

 

Like Thomas said, retrogamers are not a market. But I'm still willing to pay for great games. Maybe that's the difference: I'm not willing to pay for 'almost there, not quite finished' or outright half-done projects. That's why I say that Kickstarter surely is the best way to get the word out about your game: if it's the real deal, people will pay. And I won't judge you for not releasing the code for free to hobbyists. I want my cart, and my box too

 

edit: sorry about the horrible grammatical errors, I was in a rush. But if you took the time to read the above, then I hope you get where I'm coming from.

Well, I read your LONG response (wink wink potatohead) and although you gave me a lot of chances to "fire" back I don't really need or want to. I would rather play with my kid or play a few of the Japan Sega games I picked up recently then spend the time trying to convince someone who doesn't understand it. Pretty low priority I guess. If I was still at work on the clock then maybe but I think a few rounds of Strider is calling my name right now (japan version seems harder, just me?). I'll see you around the forums, I don't have any hatred or anything for you but you definetily missed the point. Your response only takes things in a totally different direction than I intended which means, well, simply put....your NOT one of US! See you around!

[Crazy Climber]

I'd just like to point out that "my" version is actually a team effort:

 

Nathan Strum produced the awesome sprites and artwork and spent a lot of time play testing the code.

David Dries and Nathan are working on the label and manual for the game.

Ivan Machado produced the awesome arcade style sound effects.

Richard 'Kulor' Armijo produced the cool title tune.

Fred Quimby helped with the ARM code to make the game work on the Harmony cart.

Thomas Jentzsch is currently optimising and extending the code to make it an even closer match to the arcade version.

Stephen Anthony extended Stella to support the Star Castle bank switching scheme.

 

All these people freely gave their time to make my version as good as it could be (apologies if I've left anyone else out!).

 

Chris

Woah! This is going to be AWESOME!! You guys rule, I Can't wait!

[Keatah]

With the ongoing work on the cd-w version, and that it's not limited to 8k, it has the potential to be even better than the sc version!

[Miss 2600]

With the ongoing work on the cd-w version, and that it's not limited to 8k, it has the potential to be even better than the sc version!

 

BUT, will the cartridge light up?

[Cebus Capucinis]

With the ongoing work on the cd-w version, and that it's not limited to 8k, it has the potential to be even better than the sc version!

 

BUT, will the cartridge light up?

 

BUT, can he tell us why kids love Cinnamon Toast Crunch?

[CPUWIZ]

Ok, I just about had it with this, now Facebook is trying to execute scripts, whilst browsing this page. WTF?

[Dino]

Ok, I just about had it with this, now Facebook is trying to execute scripts, whilst browsing this page. WTF?

 

Wht exactly does this mean?

[Keatah]

I don't know. But I would find blinkenlights on cartridges quite the distraction. Next we'll see OLED labels.

 

Imagine that, a Harmony III cartridge, built to high-quality standards, that displays the label and artwork of the game right on the cartridge face itself. This is easily done, by the way.

[Keatah]

Ok, I just about had it with this, now Facebook is trying to execute scripts, whilst browsing this page. WTF?

 

Sounds like some sort of browser add-on or mod, intentional or not.

[+Random Terrain]

I don't know. But I would find blinkenlights on cartridges quite the distraction. Next we'll see OLED labels.

 

Imagine that, a Harmony III cartridge, built to high-quality standards, that displays the label and artwork of the game right on the cartridge face itself. This is easily done, by the way.

 

What is the Harmony Cartridge?

[CPUWIZ]

Ok, I just about had it with this, now Facebook is trying to execute scripts, whilst browsing this page. WTF?

 

Wht exactly does this mean?

 

Well, I do not use Facebook at all, never have. However, NoScript, which is a Firefox extension (highly recommended, if you don't want to get screwed by evil scripts), reported to me that all of a sudden FB is trying to execute a script, whilst looking at this page.

[potatohead]

(removed because I didn't read the thread properly, dammit!!)

Edited May 4, 2012 by potatohead

[potatohead]

@RT: I think that idea is brilliant!!

[solidcorp]

simply put....your NOT one of US! See you around!

 

"you're", not "your"

 

See you around!

[+Random Terrain]

simply put....your NOT one of US! See you around!

 

"you're", not "your"

 

See you around!

 

Related thread:

 

www.atariage.com/forums/topic/196864-list-your-favorite-grammar-related-errors/

[atarilovesyou]

Well, I originally typed up one of those long boring "potato-head" responses (no offense man, lol) but I opted for a much quicker, to the point response and tried to condense it to under a page....

 

Scott is a great programmer and a brilliant marketing genious. This entire thing was brilliant marketing, nothing less. The way he responded to another Star Castle release was pretty damn smart, not coincidence....intelligence. I would like to play Scott in a game of chess someday...is that an option in the kickstart?

 

I am an avid homebrew collector meaning I am part of the market for this stuff. Been in the HB scene for a while and here is my 2 cents...

 

I am going to purchase cd-w's version first and possibly exclusively. Not out of spite/etc but because cd-w is one of US. He gets what it's all about. I don't need to explain that, you either get it or you don't and guys that don't are gone pretty quick. Rob Fulop didn't get it, yes he is a great programmer but he doesn't get why people would make a game for free or very little profit. He doesn't get why people still like games from 30 year outdated technology. He just didn't get it and he's gone.

 

You have to be a true hobbiest with a true passion for atari to understand it and cd-w is and does. Hell, he DONATES his profits (100% of them!!) to help with the costs of keeping atariage going, that is LOVE for a hobby, I'm not even sure I could honestly do that. I'm not saying Scott isn't one of us but time will tell on that one, I would be quite surprised if he actually owns any other homebrews/etc, or sticks around after all this has blown over. I'm also not saying don't buy Scott's but if you do, you better buy one from cd-w too, he made his for us because we wanted to play it, not to prove anything, not to be douchy, because he was giving the fans what they want....if you only pick one I think the choice is obvious,,,,

 

- cd-w made his version for US

- Scott didn't

 

Yeah, I'm a collector so I will probably buy Scott's someday if he makes them available in a storefront or Ebay or something but it's a lower priority. One of those that will be on the "buy" list but no rush. It's a LONG list though, and in fairness to all programmers games that didn't get purchased right away from me it would be at the bottom I'll own them all someday.

 

Oh, and for all you box snobs out there don't worry about cd-w's version being a loose cart since you know Marc O (another one of US) is going to make an awesome box for it just like he did with Juno First!

 

Thats it!

btw - I still think Scotts Roadblasters on the Lynx is one of, if not THE best arcade port of that game ever made!

 

This took time to write up, and I can tell you're trying to get your points across. One of the things I don't understand (nor ever will) is why posts like this still take potshots, even when they're complimenting in other areas.

 

Do you really believe CD-W wrote his version of Star Castle for 'us'? And this idea of 'us'...well, your entire idea of 'us' is something I'm not a fan of. If you're not one of 'us', you must be ...gasp! One of ...'them'! ...and no matter how succesful Scott's work has become (and I believe it is a success by all measures), the 'us' you speak about can't seem to get over the fact that he didn't want to sell his game, which is entirely his right. You're all thinking that Scott put out the Kickstarter in reaction to CDW's game?...honestly, what sense at all does that make? He could tell us his reasoning, but I think that the benefit of being outside of the core group of hobbyist homebrewers is that you don't read into what's not there: CDW's version is out for anybody to play, via emulator, for free. How could Scott's version be 'threatened'? I could see that to be the case if CDW was planning on selling his version in the same way as other homebrewers (physical copies, manual, box, all that good stuff), but that's not the case.

 

In fact, if CDW truly wanted to release Star Castle out of this pure and good brotherly-love thing you speak of, then why did he wait until the controversy surrounding Scott's game to do it? I think he just said, "Enough of this, let's see what I can do" and programmed a very good version (from what I hear, I haven't played it). But this whole 'something for nothing' thing doesn't sit well with me. It reminds me of people stealing music and movies on the internet, to be quite honest...they do it because they can. True hobbyists (which I do consider myself as one of, not as a programmer but enthusiast/collectors of sorts) can and will pay for what they enjoy, and I have, do and will continue to do so. And if more games came out with the kind of polish that Scott's Star Castle is, I would be buying a lot more homebrews.

 

The 'us' folks may have been angry about how this great game wasn't going to be available to them without a ridiculous prices (and while I agree the original quote was ridiculous, my whole thought is this: he wrote it, his time and effort and skill, he SHOULD be allowed to charge what he wants, and not be made to feel badly about it, as many here did...maybe even me, in the beginning).

 

I have friends in different hobbies, let's take RC airplanes, for example: had he designed, built and spent over two years on an airplane, would you have any less respect for him wanting to make money on his efforts? I really can't understand this is so hard to understand.

 

Do you all think you would have gotten ANY of the great games we take for granted on the 2600 had there been no cash incentives for those early programmers? That's a rhetorical question, of course, and I truly don't mean to upset anyone by it. Just because a system is old doesn't mean that the work involved to develop games is any less valuable. The whole "this is 30 year old hardware we're talking about" argument doesn't sit with me...I'd spend $100 if I so choose on a GREAT homebrew, why not?

 

I'm also a 'box snob', lol. Yes, I know you're probably just made that comment in jest, but so what if I want a box with my cart that I'm paying my hard earned money for? I wish I got boxes with all my homebrew carts (and I've purchased at least five, right here on Atariage). I guess I'm not one of the 'us' you speak of. Thomas made some great points in his last long post, and it brought me closer to how other programmers feel over this issue. But the more I read from other "pro-CDW" (for lack of a better term), the more I'm glad I'm NOT one of those guys.

 

I want to be clear: it's tough to talk about this topic by typing, and I really don't want people to think I'm stirring the pot. It's just that some of these posts are downright laughable, and I think it's to Scott's credit that he's not responding to them (even though ya gotta know he's reading them). So all I say to those programmers out there who are spending their own time for the love of the games: make your games as fantastic as you can, don't cut corners and don't worry...there ARE people out there who are still willing to pay for good games, 30 year old hardware or not.

 

Like Thomas said, retrogamers are not a market. But I'm still willing to pay for great games. Maybe that's the difference: I'm not willing to pay for 'almost there, not quite finished' or outright half-done projects. That's why I say that Kickstarter surely is the best way to get the word out about your game: if it's the real deal, people will pay. And I won't judge you for not releasing the code for free to hobbyists. I want my cart, and my box too

 

edit: sorry about the horrible grammatical errors, I was in a rush. But if you took the time to read the above, then I hope you get where I'm coming from.

Well, I read your LONG response (wink wink potatohead) and although you gave me a lot of chances to "fire" back I don't really need or want to. I would rather play with my kid or play a few of the Japan Sega games I picked up recently then spend the time trying to convince someone who doesn't understand it. Pretty low priority I guess. If I was still at work on the clock then maybe but I think a few rounds of Strider is calling my name right now (japan version seems harder, just me?). I'll see you around the forums, I don't have any hatred or anything for you but you definetily missed the point. Your response only takes things in a totally different direction than I intended which means, well, simply put....your NOT one of US! See you around!

 

 

I appreciate that you read it, what with all the Strider and child-rearing you have to do. I've said all I have to say on the matter, now it's time to see the final product. Now, I'm off to cry about not being one of you ...the few, the proud, the them

Edited May 4, 2012 by atarilovesyou

[+Random Terrain]

I appreciate that you read it, what with all the Strider and child-rearing you have to do. I've said all I have to say on the matter, now it's time to see the final product. Now, I'm off to cry about not being one of you ...the few, the proud, the them

 

There have been so many posts by so many people that I forget which people are them. How do we know who are us? Am I one of them or am I one of us? Are us them? If we are them, can we also be us? If we are us and they call us them,

? Do we even exist?