José Pereira Posted December 16, 2011 Share Posted December 16, 2011 (edited) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AtdUBPYVKmk http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mW4w32UihGE Never get an answer to this... Is it possible/timing correct to use soft sprites in this type of Parallax scrolling games? And also put one PM overlaying each soft sprite? And how many normal C64 sprites sizes could we get on A8? EDIT: We would need, probably, to use many Charsets, like one Charset for two Charlines minimum. Would this turn even more difficult the handling of the soft sprites? Edited December 16, 2011 by José Pereira Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted December 16, 2011 Share Posted December 16, 2011 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AtdUBPYVKmk http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mW4w32UihGE Never get an answer to this... Is it possible/timing correct to use soft sprites in this type of Parallax scrolling games? And also put one PM overlaying each soft sprite? And how many normal C64 sprites sizes could we get on A8? EDIT: We would need, probably, to use many Charsets, like one Charset for two Charlines minimum. Would this turn even more difficult the handling of the soft sprites? Forget softwaresprites with overlay in front of a parallax scroller. As soon as parallax comes into the scene, the calculation exceeds gameplay speed. If you want to use parallax, it's better to stick to the abilites of the PM graphics for moving objects. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
José Pereira Posted December 16, 2011 Author Share Posted December 16, 2011 (edited) In your idea this games would only be possible with PMs and more then two Multicolour we get flicker same way as in Crownland? Edited December 16, 2011 by José Pereira Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heaven/TQA Posted December 16, 2011 Share Posted December 16, 2011 Jose... grab an assembler... how should we say this is possible or that is possible without trying? and this kind of questions you need code to proove and this costs energie and time simply just to say yes or no... and softsprites in combination with parallax like flimbo plus charlimit (128) or even multiple fonts plus overlays etc... well... so I am more with emkay... at this stage... I would say difficult in 50 FPS... so go for PMs. you know how the parallax works here? 4 fonts for each scrolling stage plus copy layers etc? so... on A8 we would need how many fonts just for the damned softsprite engine? and then this multiplied with 4? hmmm... ah ok... you want to use 1 MB flashcart... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
José Pereira Posted December 16, 2011 Author Share Posted December 16, 2011 I just want to listen coders opinion. Not asking for you try it and waste time. Just opinions. Coders sure know what they can get or not. I would need a personal professor here with me all the time. I have no money to pay it so there's no code. I can't get things just by Web or with questions, all in English, technical words,... No way even if I live more than 100years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
José Pereira Posted December 16, 2011 Author Share Posted December 16, 2011 (edited) Jose... grab an assembler... how should we say this is possible or that is possible without trying? and this kind of questions you need code to proove and this costs energie and time simply just to say yes or no... and softsprites in combination with parallax like flimbo plus charlimit (128) or even multiple fonts plus overlays etc... well... so I am more with emkay... at this stage... I would say difficult in 50 FPS... so go for PMs. you know how the parallax works here? 4 fonts for each scrolling stage plus copy layers etc? so... on A8 we would need how many fonts just for the damned softsprite engine? and then this multiplied with 4? hmmm... ah ok... you want to use 1 MB flashcart... And if I use PM0&PM1 Hardware sprite only for our guy and then Enemys in 'scripted' movement using PM2&PM3 underlays? (yes, I know about using Multiple Charsets and the 4copy shifted of the back/Parallax gfxs) But this scrolling/Enemys C64 moving Hi-resolution 50fps would need to be 25fps on A8 because of colour clock movement... Wouldn't it be possible (or would it look good?) if we use 25fps and we would then have: -> frame1: scrolling -> frame2: soft sprites -> frame3: scrolling -> frame4; soft sprites and so on... Would this look bad, like SCROLL/STOP/SCROLL/STOP/... chewed/choking? Edited December 16, 2011 by José Pereira Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heaven/TQA Posted December 16, 2011 Share Posted December 16, 2011 Jose... for me as "medium skilled" coder it would be hard to say possible or not... as I said... I never coded this kind of thing so I would need to do a demo just to see if possible or not... and my target machines nowadays is a 64k machine... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heaven/TQA Posted December 16, 2011 Share Posted December 16, 2011 honest advice from my side... learn to code... really... all your energie put into your really good postings in terms of knowledge would give you fast progress while coding your personal stuff... and don't forget... you could even do and convert your own "test gfx assets". more than I could do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sack-c0s Posted December 16, 2011 Share Posted December 16, 2011 To be fair having read some of the things José has posted his thread posts have been damn-near pseudocode - I don't think he's got so far to go from talking about code to writing it as he thinks he does. It's just a case of biting the bullet and going for it I suppose 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonl Posted December 16, 2011 Share Posted December 16, 2011 honest advice from my side... learn to code... really... all your energie put into your really good postings in terms of knowledge would give you fast progress while coding your personal stuff... and don't forget... you could even do and convert your own "test gfx assets". more than I could do. I agree, why not have a quick look at Atari Roots and see if it's something you think you could take up? If you can do any type of programming already then writing 6502 is easy and you already know a fair bit about the machine's capabilities - debugging the code you write is often another matter though Cheers, Simon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andym00 Posted December 16, 2011 Share Posted December 16, 2011 But this scrolling/Enemys C64 moving Hi-resolution 50fps would need to be 25fps on A8 because of colour clock movement... Wouldn't it be possible (or would it look good?) if we use 25fps and we would then have: -> frame1: scrolling -> frame2: soft sprites -> frame3: scrolling -> frame4; soft sprites and so on... Would this look bad, like SCROLL/STOP/SCROLL/STOP/... chewed/choking? On the c64 the screen has to scroll in 2 pixel (one multicolour pixel) steps anyway otherwise the background layer would judder by one (hires) pixel each move.. When you're walking in those games, the screen is scrolling at a rate of one multicolour clock per frame, therefore the background layer done through charset switching is only really moving every 2 frames, but in fact the charset is changing every frame.. If you see what I mean The A8 will be exactly the same as the 64 in this regard.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle Posted December 16, 2011 Share Posted December 16, 2011 (edited) I would say difficult in 50 FPS... so go for PMs. I would disagree. Currently I am doing something similar. 3 layers, soft sprites, 20 lines parallax, 256 chars, dozen of colors, cycles free multiplexed PM. (as in embex) The biggest problem with softsprites is inverse. Soft sprite will change color as in BlackLamp. There are two solutions. Avoid the fifth color. Or ...... Eagle Edited December 16, 2011 by Eagle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted December 16, 2011 Share Posted December 16, 2011 I would say difficult in 50 FPS... so go for PMs. I would disagree. Currently I am doing something similar. 3 layers, soft sprites, 20 lines parallax, 256 chars, dozen of colors, cycles free multiplexed PM. (as in embex) The biggest problem with softsprites is inverse. Soft sprite will change color as in BlackLamp. There are two solutions. Avoid the fifth color. Or ...... Eagle Why does some weird noise tell me that those moving objects were limited in Y movement? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle Posted December 16, 2011 Share Posted December 16, 2011 How many h-scrolling games have you seen the movement in y-axis? Softsprites have no restrictions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted December 16, 2011 Share Posted December 16, 2011 How many h-scrolling games have you seen the movement in y-axis? Actually outside the A8 world... nearly all Softsprites have no restrictions. let's wait and see... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andym00 Posted December 16, 2011 Share Posted December 16, 2011 Actually outside the A8 world... nearly all lol, couldn't have put it better myself Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tezz Posted December 16, 2011 Share Posted December 16, 2011 Currently I am doing something similar.3 layers, soft sprites, 20 lines parallax, 256 chars, dozen of colors, cycles free multiplexed PM. (as in embex) The biggest problem with softsprites is inverse. Soft sprite will change color as in BlackLamp. There are two solutions. Avoid the fifth color. Or ...... Eagle Very good to hear that you are doing such a project.. fifth colour issues? just plan and avoid using col2/3 in you softsprites def. Yes, there's more time taken to read the background chars for inversion when you're drawing your sprite but otherwise you are free to use pf2/3 in your background chars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Creature XL Posted December 16, 2011 Share Posted December 16, 2011 Currently I am doing something similar.3 layers, soft sprites, 20 lines parallax, 256 chars, dozen of colors, cycles free multiplexed PM. (as in embex) The biggest problem with softsprites is inverse. Soft sprite will change color as in BlackLamp. There are two solutions. Avoid the fifth color. Or ...... Eagle Very good to hear that you are doing such a project.. fifth colour issues? just plan and avoid using col2/3 in you softsprites def. Yes, there's more time taken to read the background chars for inversion when you're drawing your sprite but otherwise you are free to use pf2/3 in your background chars. In MJO i use inv color only yon those background parts where no soft-sprites can go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle Posted December 16, 2011 Share Posted December 16, 2011 In MJO i use inv color only yon those background parts where no soft-sprites can go. But I do not want to be limited. I use minimum 32 colors on the screen. I'm not talking about normal changes in raster. I solved the problem my way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heaven/TQA Posted December 16, 2011 Share Posted December 16, 2011 eagle... that's what I had said... me as a medium experienced coder I would say difficult without doing a demo... as you have done a demo... you can answer and say yes... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
José Pereira Posted December 16, 2011 Author Share Posted December 16, 2011 (edited) Currently I am doing something similar.3 layers, soft sprites, 20 lines parallax, 256 chars, dozen of colors, cycles free multiplexed PM. (as in embex) The biggest problem with softsprites is inverse. Soft sprite will change color as in BlackLamp. There are two solutions. Avoid the fifth color. Or ...... Eagle Very good to hear that you are doing such a project.. fifth colour issues? just plan and avoid using col2/3 in you softsprites def. Yes, there's more time taken to read the background chars for inversion when you're drawing your sprite but otherwise you are free to use pf2/3 in your background chars. You couldn't use PF2 on a soft sprite if your BACKGR has PF3 because it would mess/clash with the gfxs (it would need, at least, 3pixels space between soft sprite PF2 and gfxs chars) but you could get things other way: In a static screen it would be more simple, I think, to read and see if each char it's using PF2 or PF3. Go for PMs underlay/overlays and soft sprites (here I have PRIOR0 and underlay P2&P3 on the two Nurses): Gfxs have PF2 and PF3. Soft sprites only move horizontal and they 'check' the gfxs char to see what's in use (PF2 or PF3). Then the soft sprite is using PF2 or PF3 according to the char it is overlaping. But PM2 and PM3 Oring PF2 or Oring PF3 will ever get the same colour,luminance (the Eyes). You just read the chars where you would Bitmap Masking your soft sprite but for the sprite (Nurses Eyes) the colour result it's always the same: EDIT: P2 and P3 use colour3 that when Oring PF2&PF3 you will always get colour15 Light Brown. Edited December 16, 2011 by José Pereira Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lazarus Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 honest advice from my side... learn to code... really... all your energie put into your really good postings in terms of knowledge would give you fast progress while coding your personal stuff... and don't forget... you could even do and convert your own "test gfx assets". more than I could do. My advice would be: Learn to focus on ONE thing and don't jump around like a bunny from one idea to the next so none of the projects gets anywhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
José Pereira Posted December 19, 2011 Author Share Posted December 19, 2011 (edited) honest advice from my side... learn to code... really... all your energie put into your really good postings in terms of knowledge would give you fast progress while coding your personal stuff... and don't forget... you could even do and convert your own "test gfx assets". more than I could do. My advice would be: Learn to focus on ONE thing and don't jump around like a bunny from one idea to the next so none of the projects gets anywhere. The projects going or not isn't the point here. The point here is knowing about what can be or not... When I post here, sometimes maybe I have all my part done and others just to see what I can get... But I need to have many things going on at the same time... I have some guys 'on the backs' that need them. Hope is that someday they finish the things. Edited December 19, 2011 by José Pereira Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
José Pereira Posted December 19, 2011 Author Share Posted December 19, 2011 Things that are with someone: Cr2 Barb P-M..ni Uw Sol Ke Ed Gr PoP (now it's up to the ...) And some others talked... And I always have time for some more Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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