emkay Posted March 12, 2012 Author Share Posted March 12, 2012 I didn't play them on the real machine, because I took it for granted that the recordings had been made to accurately represent what I would hear coming from a real machine.. Holy heap of big brown smelly masses... I know, your intention of writing into my threads isn't to aid my cause. But, in every of them I explain that there ARE differences. And the "nice" stereo effect. seems to be a result of the usage of 2 operators. losing the Focus in the emulation, the real POKEY can play it even better... monaural... but better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andym00 Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 I know, your intention of writing into my threads isn't to aid my cause. But, in every of them I explain that there ARE differences. And the "nice" stereo effect. seems to be a result of the usage of 2 operators. losing the Focus in the emulation, the real POKEY can play it even better... monaural... but better. I've got nothing against your cause, you assume I do, but you've got it wrong.. I honestly don't care either way at the end of the day.. In this particular case you caught my attention with a very nice sounding tune that sounded way better than it should be.. And it turned out that it was.. Anyway, I'm not going through every page, but at no point on the first page of this did you mention they weren't from real machines or say they were from emulators.. My fault for assuming that the grotty quality of the video was down to a shitty capture.. My fault for assuming I guess.. The nice stereo effect, since you still haven't seemed to have grasped it, is present in both the originals and the tweaked versions, it's not some side effect of any 'operator' shenanigans, just down to magic pixies changing a few bits here and there I guess that magically resulted in that lovely phase shift.. Fancy that eh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
analmux Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 OK, let us ignore andym00 from now on. Otherwise it's just a waste of time. Byebye. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Stephen Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 This simply isn't relevant for the sound demonstrations. If you like, listen to them with your mono conversion. It is relevant if a mono signal is sounding stereo. It is also releevant when you tell people that they have shitty hearing, when in fact they are proving that there hearing is rather well attuned. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Stephen Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 OK, let us ignore andym00 from now on. Otherwise it's just a waste of time. Byebye. Why? He's not bashing emkay's work. He posted a legitimate question, posted his hyopthesis, then proved it. Then he gets ganged up on and attacked for proving he was correct when he was told in an insulting way that his ears sucked. WTF man. He said several times that he LIKED the tune. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R4ngerM4n Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Bye! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
analmux Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Exactly. Let us also ignore R4ngerM4n from now on. Otherwise it's just a waste of time. Byebye. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted March 12, 2012 Author Share Posted March 12, 2012 OK, let us ignore andym00 from now on. Otherwise it's just a waste of time. Byebye. Why? He's not bashing emkay's work. He posted a legitimate question, posted his hyopthesis, then proved it. Then he gets ganged up on and attacked for proving he was correct when he was told in an insulting way that his ears sucked. WTF man. He said several times that he LIKED the tune. 1st he pointed out that I'm cheating... anyhow ... using 2 POKEYs. Then he turned into the "Nitpicking mode". Not sure where the sound gets splitted. Probably, the emulation puts one "POKEY signal" through 2 different decoders , which might slightly work different. But Altirra is more precise with that, than the RMT libraries which really jump from l-r r-l sometimes. The result is fair enough for a demonstration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sack-c0s Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Wouldn't the simplest thing be to just attach the binaries to the post? At the end of the day you can't argue with a running piece of code Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
potatohead Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 That is exactly what I was thinking. If there is some processing going on, no worries, but it would be nice to understand what is coming out of a real machine, vs what happens on the trip to YouTube. Re: In tune. I liked the tune too, and was really commenting to being sensitive to "in tune" Yes, lots of chip tunes are not precise, which is one of the limits the chips have. The art of it is working with those limits to create something pleasing, and that really was "the big nut" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Stephen Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 OK, let us ignore andym00 from now on. Otherwise it's just a waste of time. Byebye. Why? He's not bashing emkay's work. He posted a legitimate question, posted his hyopthesis, then proved it. Then he gets ganged up on and attacked for proving he was correct when he was told in an insulting way that his ears sucked. WTF man. He said several times that he LIKED the tune. 1st he pointed out that I'm cheating... anyhow ... using 2 POKEYs. Then he turned into the "Nitpicking mode". Not sure where the sound gets splitted. Probably, the emulation puts one "POKEY signal" through 2 different decoders , which might slightly work different. But Altirra is more precise with that, than the RMT libraries which really jump from l-r r-l sometimes. The result is fair enough for a demonstration. He did not accuse you of cheating - he asked a simple question based on what his ears told him. You gave a snarky reply by telling him his ears were crap. He rightly defended his stance by showing you the signal was not true mono. End of argument. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
analmux Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 ... He did not accuse you of cheating - he asked a simple question based on what his ears told him. You gave a snarky reply by telling him his ears were crap. He rightly defended his stance by showing you the signal was not true mono. End of argument. Seems you're the following user to ignore. No-one used the word 'crap' before, in this whole thread. You're exaggerating. By the way, in post 54 you can clearly read the "thumbs-down"-alike comment of andym00. See here: The original one there actually sounds nice, musical and in tune.. A good tune in its own right that can actually be appreciated, and has that POKEY flavour to its sounds that I actually like, which seems to be the thing that is most hated for some reason.. Where as the 2nd one just sounds out of key, as is the common theme to these things.. It's verging on unpleasant at times.. Granted it has it moments, when you think that sounds okay and can relax, and then it has a car running over a cat moment and all enthusiasm vanishes.. Granted, this one manages a bit longer before an innocent cat gets it Saying that the original tune is NOT out of tune, whereas emkay's edit IS out of tune is nonsense, just because it's the same tune, except some added / edited instruments. Then his comments seem far more like 'hidden personal attack', as we've heard so much, pointed at emkay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andym00 Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Saying that the original tune is NOT out of tune, whereas emkay's edit IS out of tune is nonsense, just because it's the same tune, except some added / edited instruments. And it's the instruments that have made it out of key in places then ? No ? And it makes it unpleasant to listen to in my books.. If that's not the case then I guess it's simply not there.. Or maybe youtube ? Or my ears then ? Again.. Stupid stupid ears Then his comments seem far more like 'hidden personal attack', as we've heard so much, pointed at emkay. There's no hidden personal attacks going on here bar the ones you're trying to manifest by acting like a 3 year old.. If you can't hear the tunes out of key in places after the tunes been modified then fine.. Emkay realises this, hell he even said here I think, hence his passion for wanting better music systems.. Why you have to keep jumping in and trying to fan whatever flames you perceive I really don't know.. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heaven/TQA Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 I was suprised that Andy & Emkay had a normal conversation without any kind of personal attacks by misinterpretation. and I am still think it is. Andy asked valid question and even Emkay answered in a normal way (it was worther months ago I have to admit). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted March 12, 2012 Author Share Posted March 12, 2012 Saying that the original tune is NOT out of tune, whereas emkay's edit IS out of tune is nonsense, just because it's the same tune, except some added / edited instruments. Then his comments seem far more like 'hidden personal attack', as we've heard so much, pointed at emkay. Let them write what they want. Many "out of tune" reports just belong to personal tastes. And, as we know, the basses.... make the basses correct and realize the main melody is more correct as many might think of Heck, even the ST version has it's detuning parts and has been put into a commercial game. Slight detuning isn't that bad, if the soundstyle is correct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted March 12, 2012 Author Share Posted March 12, 2012 (edited) I was suprised that Andy & Emkay had a normal conversation without any kind of personal attacks by misinterpretation. and I am still think it is. Andy asked valid question and even Emkay answered in a normal way (it was worther months ago I have to admit). You kow... Jesus Christ told : Forgive their sins 7x70 times and more Edited March 12, 2012 by emkay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted March 12, 2012 Author Share Posted March 12, 2012 If you can't hear the tunes out of key in places after the tunes been modified then fine.. Emkay realises this, hell he even said here I think, hence his passion for wanting better music systems.. What I want is to have the POKEY tune as in the "intend" version. The baseline should be possible, also the "high tickling"... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heaven/TQA Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 good to see that we are mainly back on track. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted March 12, 2012 Author Share Posted March 12, 2012 good to see that we are mainly back on track. Hm.... So anyone has a comment about post 70? 4 different timings. Have a listen to the floating of the melody from low notes to the higher notes at the end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Stephen Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Hm.... So anyone has a comment about post 70? 4 different timings. Have a listen to the floating of the melody from low notes to the higher notes at the end. Interesting differences in the sound. If I understand correctly, the feature you want most in a tracker is the ability to continually adjust the offset between filter and voice in each VBI in order to do "sweeps" between these sounds? Or to have perfectly accurate and tuned versions of each instrument? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivop Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 (edited) Many "out of tune" reports just belong to personal tastes. And, as we know, the basses.... make the basses correct and realize the main melody is more correct as many might think of Heck, even the ST version has it's detuning parts and has been put into a commercial game. Slight detuning isn't that bad, if the soundstyle is correct. O boy, out of tune is not a 'personal taste'. The equal temperament is already slightly out of tune in any key, but most people just don't hear it as they are not used to just intonation. I have not listened to miker's original, but the 'video' you posted is more than 'slightly detuned' in a lot of places. Edited March 13, 2012 by ivop 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted March 13, 2012 Author Share Posted March 13, 2012 Hm.... So anyone has a comment about post 70? 4 different timings. Have a listen to the floating of the melody from low notes to the higher notes at the end. Interesting differences in the sound. If I understand correctly, the feature you want most in a tracker is the ability to continually adjust the offset between filter and voice in each VBI in order to do "sweeps" between these sounds? Or to have perfectly accurate and tuned versions of each instrument? You can get both. Because you can adjust the pulse width and the resulting volume. The main problem with that manipulations is that the resulting offset has to be adjusted different for higher or lower notes, as we dont have a fixed start o the channels and the controller that sets the offset via "Poke x,y" . We have the 100% correct timing on all machines for POKEY and the CPU. And whe have the produced waves of the channels that make the offset programming possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted March 13, 2012 Author Share Posted March 13, 2012 Many "out of tune" reports just belong to personal tastes. And, as we know, the basses.... make the basses correct and realize the main melody is more correct as many might think of Heck, even the ST version has it's detuning parts and has been put into a commercial game. Slight detuning isn't that bad, if the soundstyle is correct. O boy, out of tune is not a 'personal taste'. The equal temperament is already slightly out of tune in any key, but most people just don't hear it as they are not used to just intonation. I have not listened to miker's original, but the 'video' you posted is more than 'slightly detuned' in a lot of places. LOL. The whole tune ist tuned to the "out of tune" basses, to have it sounding "common", but the musical flow is correct. Even better than the ST version. I wonder , by all those "musician professionals" , why we don't have real POKEY music right now.... after 35 years... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted March 13, 2012 Author Share Posted March 13, 2012 This one has been just a modulations test. I post it now for the "possible imagination to the listener" how the modulations can help to put the sounds to the needs of the tune. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ByLAq5Fc-3M Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sack-c0s Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 The A8 version of that tune *is more detuned than the St original*, and short of rolling your own waveforms there's not much of a way around that with the pokey being what it is. Fair play to everyone involved it is a *lot* better than it otherwise could have been, but to flatly deny it's anything less than perfect isn't going to help things much. I mean how are you supposed to improve things if it's forbidden to even insinuate that there's anything that could be improved in the first place? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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