Atari's Plato Cartridge question

[a8isa1]

I did the best I could with the 6-pixel font (although there are some other character options available for that too), but you can see why I'm looking for 1 extra pixel.

Is this the font that's in your patched ROM image?

 

If it is I'll have to take another look.

[+MrFish]

Is this the font that's in your patched ROM image?

 

If it is I'll have to take another look.

 

Ha... no, that is the font I'd like to shoehorn in.

 

Maybe not entirely clear from above.

 

 

Current Custom Font - 6 x 4 pixel (in the ROM I posted; approximately -- this is one of my fonts that I based the changes on)

 

 

Proposed Custom Font - 7 x 4 pixel (same one seen in my previous post; shown here for direct comparison)

 

Edited March 21, 2018 by MrFish

[+Stephen]

That difference is striking! Amazing what one extra line can get you.

[+MrFish]

Every pixel counts on these systems.

[+MrFish]

Here's something more relevant.

 

It shows 30 lines worth of text (the entire, actual screen full, copied from PTerm) -- Altirra maxing out at 224 lines here in this "Normal" overscan mode (NTSC).

 

[Edit: It wasn't the whole screen worth. I missed 1 blank line and the "Press NEXT" at the bottom, which I needed to scroll down to see in PTerm (at the zoom I was using). So the original was supposed to be a 32 line screen.]

 

So, you can see where we'd be with 32 lines worth.

 

I checked it out on my real CRT and I had about 1 more line (31 total) available for viewing.

 

 

 

empire.xex

 

empire (amber).xex

Edited March 22, 2018 by MrFish

[a8isa1]

Here's something more relevant.

 

It shows 30 lines worth of text (the entire, actual screen full, copied from PTerm) -- Altirra maxing out at 224 lines here in this "Normal" overscan mode (NTSC).

 

So, you can see where we'd be with 32 lines worth.

 

I checked it out on my real CRT and I had about 1 more line (31 total) available for viewing.

 

empire.png

 

empireamber.png

 

empire.xex

 

empire (amber).xex

 

I find the bottom one more readible but it's a strange color on this laptop's screen. Looks almost brown-maroon, a color which I didn't know existed.

[+MrFish]

The other idea I had was, instead of using the bog standard Atari
ROM char set for zoomed view, get a custom set going there as well.
With that ability, zoom mode text could be made to look almost like

the real thing. And, yes, I have a bunch of fonts on hand that could

used there as well.

 

Here's how one such font would look in a zoomed view:

 

Edited March 22, 2018 by MrFish

[tschak909]

awesome!

 

-Thom

[+MrFish]

I find the bottom one more readible but it's a strange color on this laptop's screen. Looks almost brown-maroon, a color which I didn't know existed.

 

They're just examples, so you can use any color you like, even the hocker green default.

 

Here's how it looks in blue.

 

 

empire (blue).xex

 

[Lord Thag]

This is coming along nicely

[tschak909]

As I have alluded to before, I am willing to host a teleconference to show the system from a systems management and development perspective.

 

PLATO had an INTEGRATED DEVELOPMENT ENVIRONMENT baked right into the service, long before such things became fashionable, and we can leverage this to make some truly unique stuff to put traditional BBSes to shame.

 

Does anyone want to join in?

 

-Thom

[tschak909]

Here's a side by side of the latest pass of the Notes screen on my system, pterm on the left, atari on the right:

 

 

Hopefully you guys are starting to see what's possible with the tools.

 

-Thom

[+Nezgar]

TDLINE on SpartaDOS showed that 200 lines was easily within most NTSC CRT screens from my experience. 208 might be pushing it in the corners.

 

Just throwing an idea here regarding the taller font. Most characters don't make full use of the bottom or top line of the character, maybe they can be drawn in a way that they overlap without erasing?

 

Or maybe a DLI trick to alternate scan lines of the bottom/top scanlines of each line of text, allowing you to basically 'squeeze' 2 lines physically into every 6th or 7th scanline in RAM.

Or alternate whole lines flickerterm style, then you can overlap all you want lol.

Edited March 25, 2018 by Nezgar

[+MrFish]

Most characters don't make full use of the bottom or top line of the character, maybe they can be drawn in a way that they overlap without erasing?

 

If you get a capital letter or a lower case letter with an ascender underneath a letter with a descender they already touch -- with both the orginal font and the one I designed. You can see it happen with "space" and "objects" in the first paragraph, and with "help" and "things" in the lower-right info text section (in the Empire/History text that I used for a sample).

 

It's not the bottom and top line that you're seeing in each character, it's the bottom line of each character you're seeing. The bottom line of one character becomes the top line of another character and so on, which gives you the idea that there are two blank lines. And, as I pointed out above, this line is not always blank (for descenders). So, things are already quite tight for line spacing.

 

I'm basing my 220 on Altirra and my own CRT monitor. I did make a thread in order to get some samples of what most people's current monitor setups will allow them to see. But I only got about a handful of useful responses.

 

[Edit] Also, as stated previously, 220 still doesn't give the full 32 lines of text needed to support the current terminal configuration; and I'm not sure there's much that can be done to get around that -- aside from allowing text off screen to be scrolled to.

Edited March 25, 2018 by MrFish

[tschak909]

I bite my fingernails as I write this, am nervous.

 

I have been BUSTING MY ARSE over the last few weeks trying to do everything needed to get an Atari PLATO system running, and I got the first pass of the sign-up and info web site up and running.

 

It's here: http://www.irata.online/

 

You can sign up, accounts will be created within 12 to 24 hours.

 

Please let me know what you guys think.

 

There will be more informative content added to the website over the next few days, but I needed to get something up.

 

I'm exhausted.

 

p.s. IRATA.online... I guess that's what I'm calling this thing.

 

-Thom

Edited March 25, 2018 by tschak909

[tschak909]

A copy of the official release that I did on Facebook:

 

Okay, guys. I've been working on this, for weeks, and now it's time to open the doors. The PLATO system that I’ve been putting together for Atari (and other retro-computing users) is now open for testing. Yes, things will be broken, yes, things will be weird, but I will help work through them, and I urge those interested in digging deep into the system to contact me about getting sign-ons in the staff group to help manage this thing.

This system is a public utility, that I am paying for, out of my own pocket, my own electricity, and internet connection, as well as DNS registration, but I will NEVER ask for subscription or access fees. This is a free service, and I am providing it to provide something truly unique to the retro-computing community.

This system stands alongside Cyber1 dot org as another PLATO system that users with PLATO terminal software can connect to. This includes, and was ultimately designed for Atari 8-bit users who have access to a flash cartridge (or an emulator) to run The Learning Phone cartridge which is used to access the service.

 

What is PLATO? It’s a long story, but imagine finding deep in the jungle, a village of people who were building jet engines decades before the Wright brothers flew their first airplane. It was a system for education, for social use, for playing games. It was multi-user, graphical, interactive, touch screen oriented, and presented an integrated usage and development environment the likes of which you rarely see, even today.

 

This whole project was literally possible, because the good folks at Cyber1 dot org spent years finding a completed copy of the PLATO software, and acquired permission by the current copyright holder to release it for non commercial use. I stand on the shoulders of their efforts.

 

This system was borne from both a need to provide a customized service for interested Atari users who wanted a PLATO experience, and because I wanted to provide a more user friendly experience than what is currently provided by cyber1 dot org out of the box.

 

As of now, it’s in alpha, early beta. Things will be wonky, things will be weird. Bear with me as I try to come to grips with running a massive time sharing system that traditionally was run on massive supercomputers from Control Data Corporation.

 

The web site is here: http://www.irata.online/ and has everything you need to get started.

 

Please let me know what you think,

 

Sincerely,

-Thomas Cherryhomes – IRATA.Online’s scared shitless leader.

[tschak909]

I've uploaded a demo video to the website, it's also here:

 

-Thom

[Kyle22]

We need some good Action! Programmers to write a module for the BBS to network messages with this.

[tschak909]

networking mail to this thing is going to be a journey through mordor.. it'll be insane, and it will push us all to the breaking point, but it would be worth it.

 

-Thom

[tschak909]

I just had a good laugh. Somebody signed up and requested to use their old Compuserve system ID:

 

 

LOL

 

-Thom

[Kyle22]

I just had a good laugh. Somebody signed up and requested to use their old Compuserve system ID:

 

compuserve.PNG

 

LOL

 

-Thom

That was me.

[tschak909]

Are ya SURE you want to do that? The system doesn't have a problem with it.

 

-Thom

 

(thanks, you made my day, btw) (ex compuserve user id: 72711,2702)

Edited March 26, 2018 by tschak909

[Kyle22]

I am absolutely certain. Is there any chance that if the lost CompuServe archive is found that it could be incorporated into Plato?

 

Go Atari

or atari8

 

Edit: punctuation.

Edited March 26, 2018 by Kyle22

[tschak909]

Gonna say this right now:

 

FUCK NO.

 

For way....way.....WAY too many reasons.

 

The biggest of which, Compuserve ran on a set of 36-bit PDP-10 systems, PLATO ran on clusters of 60-bit Control Data CDC Cyber systems. Data conversion problems would be unbelievable.

 

-Thom

[Kyle22]

I don't mean running the exact same software. I just mean that "IF" the CompuServe Archive WAS found, is it possible to incorporate into Plato>