gzsfrk Posted May 8, 2012 Share Posted May 8, 2012 um, amazon has it for $18+shipping.... There's two different books, both by the same author (Brian Bagnall). The first, "Commodore: A Company on the Edge" (published in 2010) is the one you're talking about listed for $18. The second, "On the Edge: the Spectacular Rise and Fall of Commodore" (published in 2005), is the title originally referenced in this thread, and that's the one that I can't seem to find for less than $43. Are these, in fact, two distinct books? Or was the 2010 release simply a re-edit of the one from 2005? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sloopy Posted May 8, 2012 Share Posted May 8, 2012 um, amazon has it for $18+shipping.... There's two different books, both by the same author (Brian Bagnall). The first, "Commodore: A Company on the Edge" (published in 2010) is the one you're talking about listed for $18. The second, "On the Edge: the Spectacular Rise and Fall of Commodore" (published in 2005), is the title originally referenced in this thread, and that's the one that I can't seem to find for less than $43. Are these, in fact, two distinct books? Or was the 2010 release simply a re-edit of the one from 2005? the 2010 book is Second Edition, 15 new interviews, more pics, and more paragraphs... as a collector, get both... as a historian, get the 2010 edition... sloopy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gzsfrk Posted May 8, 2012 Share Posted May 8, 2012 the 2010 book is Second Edition, 15 new interviews, more pics, and more paragraphs... Thanks for clearing that up for me! Second edition it is for me, then. as a collector, get both... as a historian, get the 2010 edition... What kind of crazy person collects books? Now if you'll excuse me, I need to go check on an auction for a one-off variant label version of a Freeway cart. jk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
potatohead Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 Re: Author of the cool SID tune. Wendy Carlos loves Bach... http://www.lemon64.c...an=Peter Clarke Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oky2000 Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 um, amazon has it for $18+shipping.... There's two different books, both by the same author (Brian Bagnall). The first, "Commodore: A Company on the Edge" (published in 2010) is the one you're talking about listed for $18. The second, "On the Edge: the Spectacular Rise and Fall of Commodore" (published in 2005), is the title originally referenced in this thread, and that's the one that I can't seem to find for less than $43. Are these, in fact, two distinct books? Or was the 2010 release simply a re-edit of the one from 2005? the 2010 book is Second Edition, 15 new interviews, more pics, and more paragraphs... as a collector, get both... as a historian, get the 2010 edition... sloopy. Yeah "more more more" advertising bollocks! I'm told in the 2010 2nd edition book the Amiga years section is missing in it, this is why 2005 1st edition is more expensive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oky2000 Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 Actually don't buy the 2005 book, your heart will break when you hear that if Amiga (AKA Hi-Toro) had more money in 1983 their Lorraine computer (identical hardware to Commodore Amiga 1000) could have been finished 12 months earlier same time as that 128k $5000 Macintosh piece of shit. I felt very sorry for Dave/Jay/RJ and how such geniuses struggled Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted May 18, 2012 Share Posted May 18, 2012 (edited) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4cpEClJQZX0 And now we have established the elephant in the room feel free to fade into the minority that thinks SID is nothing special and say it sounds shit so I can ignore you again Back in those days, I always thought... what the heck... I heared the SID sounds... which filled up 1/4 of what people thought "this is music". But in this little "Chip" world, it actually sounded like music, due to the pitch correctness. The only style I recognized in tunes like this is some "whining" expression. But to hear an electrical Guitar out of this synth sounds, is one thing I had to learn that it was supposed to sound like that. Actually, in that time I even disliked E-Guitar sounds.... It's only some accepting manner, understanding what people like there. Actually (2), I always preferred Synth sounds. Which means, If SID didn't sound like SID, and sound like an E-Guitar, I wouldn't remember "Wizball" and this subtune "good". So, to say this sounds like an E-Guitar is far away from reality. Which sets a pointer to the writer of that nonsense. Just for some "completion" ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VccF36ePstM This is a guitar sound. SID is far away from that. POKEY hasn't enough "resolution"... Edited May 18, 2012 by emkay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andym00 Posted May 18, 2012 Author Share Posted May 18, 2012 And how do you exactly do you think the version by our bespectacled friend sounds completely dry, and with not a jot of reverb or other effects ? That could be a kazoo under all that reverb, and it'd still sound awesome.. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted May 18, 2012 Share Posted May 18, 2012 No one is talking of the reverb. You could use the same reverb with SID and not get a e-guitar sound there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted May 18, 2012 Share Posted May 18, 2012 (edited) And this is plain POKEY sound, just not supported in RMT, so you hear gaps in the sound. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rAp-AGAs8Bw If you like, you can put it through a soundprocessor... Edited May 18, 2012 by emkay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andym00 Posted May 18, 2012 Author Share Posted May 18, 2012 Then why post a version of it drowning in Reverb, saying this is what a guitar sounds like ? Anyway, you call it what you want.. If you're convinced that that's supposed to be an "e-guitar" in the original song then fine, carry on.. But I guess you'd better ask Galway really, because when he chooses to do a guitar, he does it.. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andym00 Posted May 18, 2012 Author Share Posted May 18, 2012 And this is plain POKEY sound, just not supported in RMT, so you hear gaps in the sound. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rAp-AGAs8Bw If you like, you can put it through a soundprocessor... No thanks, it's not going to fix the fundamental wonky notes is it.. edit : lol.. I did make the mistake of pressing play actually.. Fuck that's awful!!! Have fun with your POKEY "e-guitar"... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted May 18, 2012 Share Posted May 18, 2012 Then why post a version of it drowning in Reverb, saying this is what a guitar sounds like ? Anyway, you call it what you want.. If you're convinced that that's supposed to be an "e-guitar" in the original song then fine, carry on.. But I guess you'd better ask Galway really, because when he chooses to do a guitar, he does it.. I'm not saying that. Have a look at the text under the "Wizball Guitar" video. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted May 18, 2012 Share Posted May 18, 2012 Let's do a fair comparision. The MP3 contains the recorded sound with some reverb. You get typically E-guitar "sound" through it (particular at the start of a note). Feel free to put a SID recording with equal fx manipulations.... test.zip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
potatohead Posted May 18, 2012 Share Posted May 18, 2012 No. Why bother? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andym00 Posted May 18, 2012 Author Share Posted May 18, 2012 No. Why bother? Because it's a bit of fun.. Isn't it ? Anyway, here you go.. The original SID with a few FX.. Just a 5 minute hatchet job.. Think I might have messed the timing up in the 2nd part, no matter, and I think I went a bit silly with the lead line there as well.. I'm still not convinced it's actually even supposed to be a guitar in the first place, but it works and triggers the release of copious amounts of endorphins into my brain, whatever it it's meant to be sites.google.com/site/andym00/files/Untitled_mixdown.mp3 sites.google.com/site/andym00/files/Untitled_mixdown_lead.mp3 Anyway, I used to enjoy taking apart Galways song because they're simply magnificent pieces of music regardless of what platform they're on, and it's been long overdue.. If you really want to hear a better attempt by Galway at guitar shenanigans, .. I think that's one of the best tracks ever in any computer game.. At about 6.20 in he starts to go into major wingly wangly guitar mode, that said the whole song is awesome up loud, and is a great showcase for some of the really subtle SID subtleties, and the lovely bit at 3.20 always sets the hairs on the back on my neck tingling.. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
potatohead Posted May 18, 2012 Share Posted May 18, 2012 Oh, probably... Stuffing things through external effects pretty rapidly moves into territory I find personally broken. I like the Times of Lore track a lot, BTW. There are some odd looks here at the office, LOL!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted May 19, 2012 Share Posted May 19, 2012 I wonder how people think this sounds like a guitar. Ofcourse it sounds interesting... nice though, thanx to the pitch resolution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
potatohead Posted May 19, 2012 Share Posted May 19, 2012 Well, it doesn't sound like a guitar. It does however exhibit some of the same dynamics, and the harmonic sound transitions are as significant as the pitch / volume ones are. Very nice piece, IMHO. I get a guitar feel listening to it. I don't get a horn, or piano, etc... The tune moves, bends, twists in delightful ways. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted May 19, 2012 Share Posted May 19, 2012 (edited) It's apity, POKEY isn't able to use all filter and 16 bit at once for one instrument. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lBqSe1JaTQc Edited May 19, 2012 by emkay 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andym00 Posted May 19, 2012 Author Share Posted May 19, 2012 Oh, probably... Stuffing things through external effects pretty rapidly moves into territory I find personally broken. I like the Times of Lore track a lot, BTW. There are some odd looks here at the office, LOL!! I just enjoy the playing with sounds like that because I find it inspiring to see how sometimes incredibly simple sound sources can be warped beyond all belief into something far bigger than the sum of it's part say it should be.. And it's all good ammunition to have when it comes to writing new sound stuff.. The ToL title track is, I believe, also different when the song is restarted or left to loop.. I mean compared to what you hear the first time you listen through it on a run.. I've never heard it myself, simply because I don't have enough time to listen to a 10 minute track over and over and check for the differences, but apparently the later parts are changed randomly.. I don't recall where I heard this, but it's burned into the brain from way way back for some reason.. Well, it doesn't sound like a guitar. It does however exhibit some of the same dynamics, and the harmonic sound transitions are as significant as the pitch / volume ones are. Very nice piece, IMHO. I get a guitar feel listening to it. I don't get a horn, or piano, etc... The tune moves, bends, twists in delightful ways. And that's exactly it, it's the style of it that implies a guitar, but since there's 2 other voices in use for other parts it's never going to sound like one, and I doubt that it ever was supposed to be one.. We're all clear that when Mr.Galway had 3 voices to him, and wanted to make a definitive attempt at guitar noises he succeeded very well, as in the Wizball game-over tune.. Which ironically I can't find on youtube, but I think we all know what it sounds like.. Listening to anything coming from the era of simple analog and early digital synths it's clear that they're not powerful enough to deliver a full emulation of traditional instrument X, but what they do so well is being able to go places no other instruments can, and if they choose to use the nuances and performance styles of other instruments then all the better for mind-fucking us in the process.. Personally[1], for me, Isao Tomita and his rendition of The Planets from 1976 is a great example of this.. Yes all the instrumentation is a bit far out, but the idea is clear from the start, and rather than thinking this doesn't sound like a French Horn or a Clarinet, or that's not a real person doing some ahh'ing, you just enjoy for what it is, a fantastically well put together piece of music, and one where the instruments speak differently to their normal methods, where everything you hear is because that's how the musician decided it was going to be given the limitations of the hardware available to them.. And, of course extra lashings and lashings of Roland Space Echo as well, which is always a good addition when synths are involved and that space cadet feeling The same could equally apply to his 1978 album Kosmos.. Actually, perhaps more so, because he covers rather more genres of music on this, in particular the Hora Staccato.. A brilliant use of the limited technology of the time, though it's audibly apparent that music technology has moved on some huge steps since 1976.. It was also this album that on hearing, when my dad bought it back then, blew my mind about the idea of synthesisers, and set about the desire to find out how I can make a Microtan 65 make sounds, so for me this album was the starting point of it all for me with an immediate annexing of my dads Microtan65, and an instant crash course in 6502 assembler And in fairness, I guess his 1974 album Snowflakes are Dancing meets all of the above criteria as well, although I think it differs a little in that he explores the real-time expressiveness of the individual instrumentations more so here than in his later creations.. Ooops, Tomita ramble.. Sorry But to get marginally back on topic, as much as I can manage anyway, Galway for me was the master of just doing what he wanted and doing it well, and utilising every ounce of expression he had available to him, be it melody wise, or implied melody and syncopation with the other continuously controllable parameters, namely the pulse width and filters .. I find it surprising that so few other composers made the choice to do away with the traditional percussion tracks of the time as Galway more often did.. And what often comes out of his compositions is something where the total of it is just a brilliant piece of music in its own right, regardless of platform.. Just go to remix.kwed and check out all the remixes of the Wizball title music, or bang wizball into spotify.. It's a hard tune to fuck up, and quite literally timeless.. That's not to says that his tracks with percussion are lesser by any stretch at all.. Since this has turned into a super ramble, I might as well mention a little tale of how funny the universe can be when it chooses to take the biscuit totally.. A few weeks ago I pulled into the services off the motorway for a 2am burger on the way home, and all the kids with their cars were there as usual, dub-step booming towards the stars from their stupidly large sound systems, and I pull in, Parallax title music in full flow[2] and rather loud.. As the universe would see fit at that point, I came to the attention of the boom-car-kids as I parked up, and found myself joined by two of them at the window, with them wondering "what the fuck is that racket!!".. They stayed and listened to the rest of it, seemingly liking what they heard, and information passed on as to who and what it was.. Figured that was it.. When I came out the services and headed back to my car, what do I hear coming from one of the cars at unearthly levels and a volume of bass that could level small buildings ? It's only Game Over coming from the car those 2 were with earlier, looking happy as larry in their pressure vessel of bass, doomed ear drums, and a very smoky environment, and a big thumbs up from them.. Anyway, it's all about appreciating the music, as the musician intended it to be heard, not about who can make the best worst impression of traditional instrument X or Y.. [1] Although you could equally replace this with Carlos, Moog, Kitashoji or any of the founders of this genre.. For the record I've deliberately left Jarre out because I don't think he really qualifies as a founder in this department.. Oooo, can't have a post without a potentially contentious issue can we ? [2] About 5% of my driving playlist is SID tunes, not the entire thing like you might think! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
potatohead Posted May 19, 2012 Share Posted May 19, 2012 Tomita... yes! It one of my favorites too. In fact I am going to have a listen today. Been too long. So mush good stuff in there. Should be required listening for anyone interested in synth. Great reference. I get why you process. I will do it too, but the line is where the process adds more value than the source did when expressing what a chip can do. That's all. I was cranky. BTW there are some chip tune sounds mixed into a local band or two here and it happened in similar ways Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
w1k Posted May 19, 2012 Share Posted May 19, 2012 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irgendwer Posted May 19, 2012 Share Posted May 19, 2012 White Atari Jaguar in an Amiga box? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atarian63 Posted May 20, 2012 Share Posted May 20, 2012 Actually don't buy the 2005 book, your heart will break when you hear that if Amiga (AKA Hi-Toro) had more money in 1983 their Lorraine computer (identical hardware to Commodore Amiga 1000) could have been finished 12 months earlier same time as that 128k $5000 Macintosh piece of shit. I felt very sorry for Dave/Jay/RJ and how such geniuses struggled Best of all it would have come out as intended as an ATARI!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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