high voltage Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 but the Apple ][ was the most important 8-bit computer released. Only in USA. Yes but America was the important computer country, UK not. Watch Triumph of the Nerds, very important Apple /IBM video, eye opener to most Brits yup. Apple 2 and Europe? never heard of... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
high voltage Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 Oops the above reply is somehow muddled, done on iphone ....Apple...heh typical..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormtrooper of Death Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 I also had an Atari 520STFM and an Atari 1040ST. I still find the 8-bit Atari better as the ST line. Did you folks also notice, that on Ebay and Marktplaats (Dutch), there are still more Atari 8bit systems for sale, as Atari ST ones. In Holland, there are people who put an ad on Marktplaats with free Atari STs. IF nobody gets them, those people throw them Atari ST in the garbage bin. Atari 8bit had more colors, better sound, and was more robust. The Atari ST had more memory , 3.5 inch diskdrive, midi. I still prefer the Atari 8bit vs Atari ST. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sack-c0s Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 (edited) So the UK isn't important? we bloodywell are for Apple! look at the iOS devices: CPU: ARM (Cambridge) GPU: PowerVR from Imagination Technologies (just north of London). I know for a fact a good amount of the staff there cut their teeth on a C64, BBC micro or Spectrum because I'm one of 'em. Physical Design: Not sure where the work takes place, but Jonathan Ives is from South London. most smartphones (which are currently one of the biggest gaming platforms) are built on an ARM/powerVR pair. If they don't use powerVR they'll most likely use ARMs Mali instead. The Sony PS Vita is also an ARM/PowerVR combo. Those devices are a lot more British than you might first realise. I wouldn't describe the UK as unimportant. Edited May 2, 2012 by sack-c0s 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lazarus Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 Atari 8bit had more colors, better sound, and was more robust. The Atari ST had more memory , 3.5 inch diskdrive, midi. Not quite, the ST had 512 colors and if the sound is worse or better is a matter of taste. The ST seriously lacked hardware features. No sprites/PMs, no character modes, no hardware smooth scrolling, no display lists or copper etc. I still prefer the Atari 8bit vs Atari ST. Yup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
high voltage Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 So the UK isn't important? we bloodywell are for Apple! look at the iOS devices: CPU: ARM (Cambridge) GPU: PowerVR from Imagination Technologies (just north of London). I know for a fact a good amount of the staff there cut their teeth on a C64, BBC micro or Spectrum because I'm one of 'em. Physical Design: Not sure where the work takes place, but Jonathan Ives is from South London. most smartphones (which are currently one of the biggest gaming platforms) are built on an ARM/powerVR pair. If they don't use powerVR they'll most likely use ARMs Mali instead. The Sony PS Vita is also an ARM/PowerVR combo. Those devices are a lot more British than you might first realise. I wouldn't describe the UK as unimportant. The 80s UK computers were of far less importance than the US computers. Spectrum formed companies too, way back, but if there wasn't a Spectrum, the C64 would have done that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sack-c0s Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 I disagree - remove every ARM-powered device from your surroundings and then tell me that the Acorn Archimedes wasn't the most important machine that most people have never even heard of. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enthusi Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 Oh, another evil c64 thread I'm here for 2600 which I love and my machine-of-choice was and is the C64. Never had any A8 beside the VCS But I wouldnt dare dissing it or such. Plus I barely see such things on any c64 forum. This flaming appears to be very immature and spiked by weird other emotions. Jealousy? Bitterness? I really dont get it. Certainly Im not gonna argue about this issue since I couldnt. I only know one of the two brands/machines by heart and that is C64. So I'm pretty biased. Im coding for c64 AND Atari since they share the same CPU basically. And 6502-assembly is what I love. So no need to differ between vcs 2600 and C64 there. Both have unique hardware. One among(!) the most powerful/complex ones the other probably the weakest hardware wise of all 6502-devices. I also like the Acorn Electron btw. I wouldnt dream of starting some Electron-bashing or Speccy-bashing anywhere ever. Hmm, I might point and make fun of the Amiga But its ok to bully bigger people I think This anti-c64-rage does really really not make 'you' look good. 6502 and 8 bit obviously. Isnt that something c64 and Atari8bit communities share and enjoy? There is ALOT THAT differs, demo-scene, amount of releases, coding skills, color palette, cpu clock, blabla... I'd MUCH rather focus on what is in common: great CPU, smart assembly-coding, low memory (compared to nowadays standards) and an active community (well, Acorn Electron community is pretty much absent). That much anger rather saddens me. I hope people still enjoy their c64s and ataris and are not occupied by hating the other... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frogstar_robot Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 The importance of the spectrum wasn't the power - it was the price. The best home computer in the world is completely meaningless if you can't afford one. This is the main reason I wound up with a 520ST/monochrome monitor setup rather than an Amiga. I saved up to go 16 bit for a year and sold the A8 kit I had at the time (groans...) to buy it. The cheapest possible Amiga setup was completely out of reach. Having made some Amiga using friends later and getting to play, I'll readily agree the Amiga was generally a more capable machine. But as you say, it didn't do me any good as the ST was (barely) attainable within my teenage means but the Amigas weren't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
high voltage Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 For me it was (is) VCS, A8, C64 Amiga. I just didn't like the ST Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
potatohead Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 I liked the ST, but just didn't get into the 16 bit scene. Missed out on it and Amiga, largely due to moving to DOS for professional reasons. 8 bits is enough! Re: Arm I second the importance arguments, and it's going to continue to show over the coming years. Personally, I see we've hit some sharp limits on overall peak compute speeds. Until that changes, differentiation is going to be all about the balance of hardware / software / power consumption. ARM is highly differentiated, and is well aligned with current portable device trends. Wouldn't be the case had they not taken some of the paths they did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 I disagree - remove every ARM-powered device from your surroundings and then tell me that the Acorn Archimedes wasn't the most important machine that most people have never even heard of. Acorn Archimedes.... King without a crown ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALfnZjCiuUQ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fernando marrin Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 As much as i love the 8bit/ 5200 , the 64's library is unbeatable... Impossible! Due to lack of a prober BASIC nobody was able to program games on C64. i think that with over 10000 games , somebody could program the C64, just not in Basic... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Random Terrain Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 i think that with over 10000 games , somebody could program the C64,just not in Basic... Real men use assembly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
high voltage Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 Best Of British was Atari Jaguar and Atari Portfolio and iMac? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
high voltage Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 (edited) Double post... Edited May 2, 2012 by high voltage Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 Hmmm.... Zarch on the A8 ... ten years ago ....how could it look like? Someone interested in a port ? Gr. 10 and PM is usable for Overlays... for readable scoreboard (for example) ... some DLIs... ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heaven/TQA Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 yeah. but not sure if mode10++ maybe like koronis rift and use plain mode10. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 yeah. but not sure if mode10++ maybe like koronis rift and use plain mode10. I guess 4x4 mode will be needed for a fully fluent gameplay, as I'm still proposing to use Fullscreen... without any borders, the CPU will be fast enough to handle the maths aswell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sack-c0s Posted May 3, 2012 Share Posted May 3, 2012 I'm not so sure - what's the deal with connecting a mouse to the A8? In my mind it's probably the least confusing way to play Zarch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lazarus Posted May 3, 2012 Share Posted May 3, 2012 Did anyone ever play that game? To me it always was an unplayable tech demo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andym00 Posted May 3, 2012 Author Share Posted May 3, 2012 I'm not either.. I had a pop at doing a Zarch floor on the 7800 some 10+ years back, and just handling handling the floor and translating and projecting all those points wasn't quick to say the least, and that was using MARIA to do the line fills, with me only having to scan convert the edges (with no clipping!) and with some seriously unrolled code in ROM as well, and some excessive tables, I think it was 128K ROM size I was working with.. Mind you I was aiming for 50Hz with it.. There's a lot of edges to rasterise in a normal scene from that.. Possibly with lego mode and 25Hz (or less) it might be doable.. Just it'll look crap at that resolution, unless you're stood 10 feet away and squinting.. And that'd be just the floor, before you've added any 3D objects on the surface, which will be nothing more than a few random pixels at that res.. Plus as Sack intimates, reading the mouse isn't exactly performance friendly on the A8.. As for playing it, I never played the Arch version, but I did love it on the Amiga in its Virus form.. Brilliant little game, though not particularly fast when compared to the Arch. version.. Also, as an side, I was just looking for a video of Conqueror (same graphics system), and stumbled across this side by side of the ST version of Virus Vs. the Arch version.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TjVeZ9c9fLM&feature=related I love how the Archimedes just absolutely demolishes the ST framerate wise, even running at 256 colours I'd forgotten what a stunning little machine it really is.. /me heads off to fleaBay to buy one.. edit: Small world that it is, this video from the 80s came up on hackaday.com today, all about the ARM processor, complete with awesome 80s synth music 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heaven/TQA Posted May 3, 2012 Share Posted May 3, 2012 Archimedes always cought my interest because of the ARM Risc CPU. Was it not similar to the R3000 of the PSX? and the 256 color mode was inteesting, too. and the OS was not bad either. Hmm... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andym00 Posted May 3, 2012 Author Share Posted May 3, 2012 They're similar in some ways.. Similar instruction formats, similar instructions, but then that's kind of the RISC style from that time.. Although the ARM achitecture does predate the MIPs architecture by some time, if my memory serves me right.. Personally, I like them both, although I've done more MIPs work over the years than ARM code, but I figure they feel comfortable because they feel (ARM especially) like big 6502s.. To me at least Though the MIPs addressing modes were a bit shit to be honest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GroovyBee Posted May 3, 2012 Share Posted May 3, 2012 I'm not either.. I had a pop at doing a Zarch floor on the 7800 some 10+ years back, and just handling handling the floor and translating and projecting all those points wasn't quick to say the least, and that was using MARIA to do the line fills, with me only having to scan convert the edges (with no clipping!) and with some seriously unrolled code in ROM as well, and some excessive tables, I think it was 128K ROM size I was working with.. Do you have a demo screen to post for this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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