Work In Progress: "Bentley Bear: Crystal Quest"

[theredlineboss]

Good to see a post from you Bob - Looking forward to seeing the completed game & adding it to my library. And of course, thanks to tep392 for stepping forward to put the finishing touches on it.

 

-Rob

[thursday83]

Hey Bob! Great to hear from you. Genius how you implemented all of these factors into BB.

 

Hope you are well.

 

Thursday83

[Stun Runner 87]

[Stun Runner 87]

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hi guys:

As always, thanks for the feedback. I would like to address some points brought up:

 

The White Jewels are the low value weapon. They will give 1 hit point and take out most of the easier enemies (they take 1 hit point to kill - i.e. tree, skeleton)

The Red Jewels are the high value weapon. They will give 2 hit points and take out most of the mid-level enemies (they take 2 hit points to kill - i.e. worm, bee swarm)

The Green Jewels are special. They will double the hit points of whatever weapon you currently own. So, if you have a Red Jewel and encounter a Green Jewel, you will have a weapon worth 4 hit points. You definitely don't want to die at this point

That isn't the maximum though - if you live long enough to encounter *another* Green Jewel, you will have a weapon worth 8 hit points, and can kill just about anything (except the Witch Boss) with one hit. The Witch Boss would take two hits.

I intended to make this a little more difficult as most people at this point are used to side scrollers as they've been around since '85. Plus you have unlimited continues.

Different enemies have different hit points. The zombie is a special case as it only registers 'head' shots (like in every zombie movie only a head shot will kill it)

I think I have the zombie set at 3 hit points.

That is correct. Being that I was trying to make a cross between SMB and Wonderboy, I did a similar 'rule' regarding weapons as I did with Wonderboy. Once you die, you have to get your weapon back. You have to travel a small bit to get your weapon but it appears pretty much right afterward. You'll die without a weapon. That being said, if the Jewels need to be scattered in a better way, please give a general idea on how they should be distributed.

Yep, like SMB, even Bowser doesn't go all of the way to the left (at least when I played SMB). If I made her go all the way to the left the player would die. Every time. Also, I wanted the first encounter to be somewhat easy to get familiar with her. Each encounter the player has with the Boss Witch they will find she does something different that makes her a little more difficult to defeat. Plus you have an amount of urgency as by the time you reach her, you won't have much 'life' left before you die.

The brown "ground" is also a pretty big clue

I was trying to do a few things here: try to make a combination of a few types of side scroller (i.e. SMB, Wonderboy) and have a few 'different' things that people aren't used to 20 times over in this genre of a game. I did, however, make a few changes to the last version (the source code I posted has it) that hopefully should make the game somewhat easier in the beginning.

The placement of enemies/objects can be easily changed.

I will be assisting tep392 (he mentioned that he would run any gameplay changes by me - but I'm sure whatever he decides will be *very* cool)

Thanks guys

Bob

[/size]

Edited December 13, 2012 by Stun Runner 87

[bcprs1]

awesome, keep em coming

[PacManPlus]

Hi Guys:

 

Ok, I've been thinking about this. With the other things I have going on (including a CT scan of my head due to pressure and random pain in my head for the past 3 weeks), I am having a hard time with not finishing this one. That being said, do you guys disagree with any of my prior post (specifically '108 stars' and 'sh3-rg') about where I was going gameplay-wise?

 

Also, if any of you still think it's too hard, please let me know specifically what you feel I should change and I will consider it. I personally feel it's too *easy*, but that may be the developer talking because I know where I've laid everything out.

 

If you guys accept my ideas on the gameplay, all that's left is finishing up the ending (there is an ending but it's not completely how I envisioned it), and the music which I would very much like to work with Perry on to use the Yamaha (I've never dealt with that sound chip before).

 

Thanks, guys - and Happy New Year to all of you.

Bob

[Jaynz]

Happy New Year, Bob! Good to see you around.

 

The game difficulty, in my experience, really depends on the controller you're using and how finicky it's acting. The scheme you're using is fairly exacting, which can make a level really easy for someone with a good controller that's reading like you're expecting it, or really frustrating for one that you're not. You might consider softening up the scheme a little, giving a smidge more leeway in when the bear starts running, in particular.

[+evg2000]

Hey PMP, I hope you get a handle on what every your health issue is. I have to ask, does the 7800 cause health issues? First Curt, and now you. I've no opinion on what you should do with the game, but I'm sure I will purchase it and enjoy it!

 

Happy new year, thanks for checking back in, and take care of yourself.

[PacManPlus]

Oh - God - This is nothing compared to what Curt is going through. My CT came back "normal" (or, as normal as my brain can be ) so I've got to keep going to see what this is.

 

Sorry to take this off-topic, and thank you very much for the concern, guys.

 

Jaynz, when you say more leeway, do you mean more time before he starts running?

 

 

EDIT - BTW, Stun Runner 87, you are too funny Thanks, man

[mmervine]

Bob-happy that your CT scan was OK, hope you get to feeling better. You know that I am a big fan, so I think that it would be awesome to have you finish BB! Even better if Perry helps with the sound!

[Jaynz]

Jaynz, when you say more leeway, do you mean more time before he starts running?

Maybe actually have the second button be 'run'? I'm honestly not sure of the best solution here... the lag in running seems to be the biggest problem in that some controllers don't seem to pickup the run AT ALL for some reason. My pad does it fine, my old doorstops did not. As a quicker code fix, maybe have a longer check for starting the run so that he'll do it sooner? Like, a couple of steps then automatically run?

[PacManPlus]

Actually, the second button *is* run (as well as shoot jewels). You see there are two modes:

 

Left Difficulty Switch controls the type of joystick: The Left position is the Single Button Joystick, and the Right position is the two-button joystick

Right Difficulty Switch controls the button orientation: The Left position has button 'A' jump and button 'B' run/throw, and the Right position is button 'A' run/throw and button 'B' jump (switch has no effect if the single button joystick is used).

 

Note that it only checks the switches at the start of a turn (i.e. when Bentley first appears on the screen)

 

Does that help?

 

Thanks,

Bob

 

Also, I don't know if the last bin posted had all of the changes I made, so I'll post it again:

Bentley.A78

Bentley.BIN

BentleyP.A78

BentleyP.BIN

[Trebor]

Bob, I'm glad your CT scan came back fine. Hope you find some relief and answers though about the pain.

 

Some people may be having problems with running due to the ProSystem emulator. The default difficulty switch position does not treat the controller like two buttons as default for this game. You have to hold down the input (F5 I believe) to change the difficulty switch setting. A problem with the most publicly available release of ProSystem is the difficulty switches do not act as a toggle to one position or the other, but more like an actual switch that requires the input trigger for them to be held down.

 

In Bentley Bear's case it requires you to hold down that input before the start of each level (At least that has been my experience with ProSystem 1.3e). As a side note, MESS does not have this problem and difficulty switch behavior and input is properly handled.

 

Respecting game challenge, I believe the difficulty of this game if fine if not in agreement in perhaps being not hard enough and too easy.

 

Bad or worn controllers will make more challenging any console for any game. I do not believe game mechanics or physics should be fine-tuned or adjusted based on whether a controller is good or worn/faulty.

Edited January 6, 2013 by Trebor

[Jaynz]

Actually, the second button *is* run (as well as shoot jewels). You see there are two modes:

 

Hadn't played with the difficulty swtiches, which is my fault.. you MAY consider having the left switch reversed for this, then. Even though I know a lot of 7800 users make use of the 2600 stick, it probably still makes more sense to assume the doorstop as the 'default' stick and go from there.

 

I'll play with the ROM and my controllers tommorow and see how it goes.

[KevinMos3]

...That being said, do you guys disagree with any of my prior post (specifically '108 stars' and 'sh3-rg') about where I was going gameplay-wise?

 

...Also, if any of you still think it's too hard, please let me know specifically what you feel I should change and I will consider it. I personally feel it's too *easy*, but that may be the developer talking because I know where I've laid everything out.

 

If you guys accept my ideas on the gameplay, all that's left is finishing up the ending (there is an ending but it's not completely how I envisioned it), and the music which I would very much like to work with Perry on to use the Yamaha (I've never dealt with that sound chip before).

 

I'm very glad to see you around again -- even if it's just for completing this project. Although I'd love to have you under house arrest with a life sentence of working on 7800 games.

 

The difficulty issues I brought up a while back mostly had to do with world 2. I never thought world 1 was too abusive on difficulty; only that I couldn't get past the witch and had to use the warp. I've since heard it explained how to beat her easily, so I'll have to give it another try.

 

The responses to what I said have pretty much all centered on world 1, which again... wasn't really what I was having trouble with. Also, in response to Trebor's concern over me or others using a bad controller... I tried to make it clear that the controller was not the issue. I deliberately picked the best & most comfortable controller for me to use when playing. I also tried to put my thoughts into context by saying I am definitely not a newb at platformers.

 

I've honestly not played it since that day I posted about being so frustrated with the difficulty. World 2 had me so discouraged. For world 2, I think there are way too many enemies coming at you constantly with too few options to get out of the way or position yourself to kill them since you're on those platforms over water and jumping is crucial. It seems speed is also crucial for some jumps and enemies seem unfairly placed at times. Just one example: having 2 of the bee swarms and 2 of the radish looking things (4 total & all of which follow you) coming at you at the same time.

 

I can't speak on anything past world 2 because I could not get past the witch, and that was using save-states too. Like I said though -- I'll have to give her another try.

Edited January 6, 2013 by KevinMos3

[gambler172]

Hi Bob

glad to see you back in this thread

difficulty is ok

Game plays very well

Keep care of your health

Ps:It would be great to see you with new projects

But you should only do what you want

It should not be a must,it should be fun

and a project is done,when it is done

no pressure

and sure,your job has priority

greetings Walter

[gambler172]

Hi Guys:

 

Ok, I've been thinking about this. With the other things I have going on (including a CT scan of my head due to pressure and random pain in my head for the past 3 weeks), I am having a hard time with not finishing this one. That being said, do you guys disagree with any of my prior post (specifically '108 stars' and 'sh3-rg') about where I was going gameplay-wise? GroovyBee, what are your thoughts on where I've gotten to this point regarding the levels, playability, etc. - good bad or indifferent? This is my first foray into a mostly original title and I'm a little gunshy.

 

Also, if any of you still think it's too hard, please let me know specifically what you feel I should change and I will consider it. I personally feel it's too *easy*, but that may be the developer talking because I know where I've laid everything out.

 

If you guys accept my ideas on the gameplay, all that's left is finishing up the ending (there is an ending but it's not completely how I envisioned it), and the music which I would very much like to work with Perry on to use the Yamaha (I've never dealt with that sound chip before).

 

Thanks, guys - and Happy New Year to all of you.

Bob

Hi my friend

I would not ask too many people........you know,you cannot make it right for all

Remember,in the past all your games were great and BENTLEY is it too

About the difficulty;i am not a JUMPNRUN expert,but it is very playable for me

I think,i am never able to beat it completely,but the joystick control is good.

I would only try to add a little endscreen and that is it.It is not necessary to make a music theme for every level

The sound now is ok for me.More important is the gameplay and that is ok

What happens in the last version,when you beat the last stage?

Is it only finished or does it start at level 1 again?

Keep up your great working

greetings Walter

Edited January 6, 2013 by gambler172

[KevinMos3]

I just played it again and this time I completed the whole game. I think the rom I played was the last uploaded BEFORE the one just posted, so I don't know what changes were made since then. I started from the beginning and took the warp again. I stand by what I said about level 2. It had me very frustrated, especially the later rounds of level 2. I was creating and loading save-states constantly to get through it. This time the witch was easy, now that I knew what to do. I found the "Secret Level." That was very cool. I like how after you finish that level, you continue in the level you were last on.

 

I don't think the rest of the game was nearly as difficult as level 2, but there were certainly a lot of places that had me yelling. The scenery was interesting enough to keep me playing through the other levels. I had the red weapon the entire game since I was using save-states to essentially never die. If I hadn't had that, I would probably never have made it past certain points.

 

Concerning overall difficulty, it seems to me like the game is too dependent upon the player possessing the strongest weapon... like it assumes you have it, so if you don't, you're screwed. The difficulty should really be calibrated around the weakest weapon, in my opinion. In some ways it's more of a shooter than a platformer, but that's a whole different matter. Maybe if you could kill some enemies by jumping on their heads, it would feel more like a platformer and the player would get pinned down less often. I'm sure it's probably way too late to suggest these kinds of changes though.

 

I wish I could be more specific, but all I can think of right now is the number & types of enemies on the screen at once. Like, if you have 2 bee swarms (each at a different height on screen and at least one too high to shoot), a red jumping punching thing, and a turnip looking enemy, you're absolutely going to die unless you just get lucky. There were many places that I just kept getting killed until the game would generate a different type of enemy in that place. Like a green centipede thing instead of the red jumping punching thing, etc..

 

Well, now that I've seen the entire game, I think it's definitely a showcase game for the 7800. I've been telling a ton of ppl about this game for months, and I'm looking forward to seeing it's eventual release. I'm not sure I'd be able to play without save-states though, even with unlimited continues. We'll see. I know for sure that I would never pass level 2.

Edited January 6, 2013 by KevinMos3

[Trebor]

Also, in response to Trebor's concern over me or others using a bad controller... I tried to make it clear that the controller was not the issue. I deliberately picked the best & most comfortable controller for me to use when playing. I also tried to put my thoughts into context by saying I am definitely not a newb at platformers.

 

Hey Kevin,

 

Just to make it clear my statement regarding any controller issue was due to the feedback made by Jaynz here: http://www.atariage....25#entry2671101

 

Especially with the comment: "The game difficulty, in my experience, really depends on the controller you're using and how finicky it's acting".

 

Again, I don't believe this or any game's difficulty should be based upon, as Jaynz stated: "the controller you're using and finicky it's acting".

 

Level 2 can be challenging at times. Perhaps a better (?) solution would be to place this level as the last or next to last level and keep the challenge aspect the same.

Edited January 6, 2013 by Trebor

[Jaynz]

Again, I don't believe this or any game's difficulty should be based upon, as Jaynz stated: "the controller you're using and finicky it's acting".

 

That means that the code may be checking the controls too tightly, which can cause issues even with a new and perfectly-working controller if its not hitting the sync right. These old machines don't have buffers and read-states like the newer consoles do. "Direct to hardware" can have issues that you have to make some allowances for.

 

Edit: Anyway, tried it out this morning and it is a lot smoother in the controls already. Tweaking from this point may be a never-ending process and you're probably better off just wrapping up the game and getting it under the best, as it were.

Edited January 6, 2013 by Jaynz

[KevinMos3]

Just to make it clear my statement regarding any controller issue was due to the feedback made by Jaynz here: http://www.atariage....25#entry2671101

 

No problem Treb, I just wanted to be clear, since I was the one who initially brought up the difficulty issue.

 

 

Level 2 can be challenging at times. Perhaps a better (?) solution would be to place this level as the last or next to last level and keep the challenge aspect the same.

 

That's a solution that could work. Although the progression of scenery kinda fits an earlier level. Later ones seem to be castle related. Another option would be to limit the type of enemy on-screen at once in certain areas. For example: when you have to make a critical jump, limit chasing enemies to 1 and if there are to be 3 others on-screen, they could be the right-to-left type. Of course, the number of enemies in certain areas could be limited too, and could even be controlled through a difficulty setting.

 

Bob, here's another thought about what some have said concerning starting out without your weapon. I think the main concern there is what I've experienced a few times now... sometimes the continuation spot you're placed in has enemies that make it impossible to survive, so you end up losing all your lives and just restarting the round anyway. For example: I was just now placed in a continuation spot where the weapon was on the other side of a hole that I had to jump over, but there was a beehive coming at me from above and 2 of the turnip looking things coming at me from below. I had racked up several extra lives in reserve by this point, but I lost them all just trying to get started again. I found NO successful strategy to continue the game, so I ended up losing all lives and restarting the round. I don't know how many other spots there are like this, but I found a few last night. So, there are definitely impossible situation continuation spots. If you definitely want the player to start without a weapon (which I gotta admit, seems a cool idea), then some of these spots should be tweaked. As it is, some of these do no good because you're going to lose all lives and restart the round anyway.

 

I had another thought about level 2 last night that I was hesitant to share, but I'll go ahead and say it. I think another thing that makes level 2's difficulty so frustrating (besides the 1,000 deaths), is that it's the most bland level in the game. The scenery in the rest of the game is interesting enough that even if there are butt-kicking spots, I keep coming back because I want to see what's next. Now here's where this comment can really go somewhere... There's a round in Level 6 that looks VERY much like level 2, but it adds parallax scrolling to the sky and looks MUCH more interesting. Perhaps the detail worked into that round of level 6 could be added to level 2?

[PacManPlus]

Ok - thanks guys... That helps a lot.

 

I played it again (after being away from it for a while, and Level 2 is indeed too stressful. I will work on 2-2 through 2-7 and see if I can't make it a bit easier. (I would like to keep them in the same order as the prior level segues into the next.)

 

BTW, Every major level (i.e. 1-x, 2-x, 3-x..) except 5 has a warp. Some are on the first sub-level, some are on the second, and so on. I am moving the level 1-2 warp as it is too easy to find.

 

Kevin - you *finished* it? Now I'm wondering if the later levels are too easy?

Bob

 

 

EDIT - didn't see the post directly above this one. I like your suggestions and will look into it

 

EDIT2:

Bob, here's another thought about what some have said concerning starting out without your weapon. I think the main concern there is what I've experienced a few times now... sometimes the continuation spot you're placed in has enemies that make it impossible to survive, so you end up losing all your lives and just restarting the round anyway. For example: I was just now placed in a continuation spot where the weapon was on the other side of a hole that I had to jump over, but there was a beehive coming at me from above and 2 of the turnip looking things coming at me from below. I had racked up several extra lives in reserve by this point, but I lost them all just trying to get started again. I found NO successful strategy to continue the game, so I ended up losing all lives and restarting the round. I don't know how many other spots there are like this, but I found a few last night. So, there are definitely impossible situation continuation spots. If you definitely want the player to start without a weapon (which I gotta admit, seems a cool idea), then some of these spots should be tweaked. As it is, some of these do no good because you're going to lose all lives and restart the round anyway.

 

Which level was this?

[KevinMos3]

Kevin - you *finished* it? Now I'm wondering if the later levels are too easy?

 

LOL, no fear there Bob. Remember, I was using save-states like a mutha. Oh, and the end boss was a nightmare! Had to use turbo-fire to beat her 2nd phase.

 

 

I am moving the level 1-2 warp as it is too easy to find.

 

Moving the level 1-2 warp??? Aaaaaaah! I'll lose my hair. Seriously though, it's a good trade-off since level 2's difficulty will be adjusted. I actually enjoy playing through level 1 enough that I've chosen to pass up the warp anyway.

 

Thank you very much for being so open to suggestions and even more-so for acting upon them. I can say for certain this is going to be my very favorite game for the 7800 and can hardly wait for its release. Ugh, I just read that back... sorry for the gushing. I try not to.

 

 

EDIT - didn't see the post directly above this one. I like your suggestions and will look into it

 

Awesome... just... awesome.

 

edit:

Which level was this?

 

That specific spot was level 6-1. I don't remember off-hand where the others were.

Edited January 6, 2013 by KevinMos3

[AtariMagic!]

and, if you please

add a few more Tia sound-effects ,

[gambler172]

Hi my friend

Great,that you feel better again

greetings Walter

Edited January 7, 2013 by gambler172