+DZ-Jay Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 This is exactly what is happening to me. And that is also what I "figured" myself, thus why I asked where people are getting their roms from. The roms I have are from who knows how long ago. I literally have no idea when I got them, it was probably 8+ years ago.But they work fine in every emulator I tried them in, Bliss, Nostalgia and Mess. Just tested them again. And like you I am using the gui frontend for jzintv, and I'm having the exact same issue. Is it the gui? Is it the emulator? Is it the roms? Is it the config? jzintv craps out with no message whatsoever... FWIW I'm using Windows 7 64 bit I didn't really configure anything in jzintv other than tell the gui where my roms are, where my grom, exec and ecs are, and what hackfile to use. It acutally seems that I might have figured out the hackfile issues for 1 controller but the emulator still crashes on most roms whether I use the hackfile or not. On the roms that do work, the controller is now mapped correctly. And like I said I am executing the emulator from the gi frontend. When I say the roms don't work I mean they don't work at all. Black or pink screen, nothing of the rom screen ever shows up it just crashes out in a few seconds back to the gui. The roms that do work work perfectly... I am not familiar with the GUI front-end, so I cannot tell if that is the problem. I suppose the problem could be the version of the emulator that comes with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rxd Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 I download the latest version of jzintv (beta 4?) and copied that into the gui's folder but still have the same issue. I also don't use the intellivision roms that came with jzintv but rather the "official" roms that every emulator uses. Like I said who knows what the problem is? It could be the gui, but then why do some roms work fine and others don't? And I'm sorry, but software that craps out with no error message, no error file, no nothing in this day and age is just bad form to say the least.... Oh and you can't use long file names in the hackfile path? I don't know if this is the frontend or jzintv but come on! What year is this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DZ-Jay Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 (edited) I download the latest version of jzintv (beta 4?) and copied that into the gui's folder but still have the same issue.I also don't use the intellivision roms that came with jzintv but rather the "official" roms that every emulator uses. Like I said who knows what the problem is? It could be the gui, but then why do some roms work fine and others don't? And I'm sorry, but software that craps out with no error message, no error file, no nothing in this day and age is just bad form to say the least.... Oh and you can't use long file names in the hackfile path? I don't know if this is the frontend or jzintv but come on! What year is this? Let's get something clear: jzIntv is the command line emulator, not the GUI-- that is a separate product offered by someone else. We can't tell whether jzIntv gives an error message or not because the GUI doesn't show it; it closes the emulator's window as soon as it ends. That's the GUI's fault. As for the long file names, that's probably also the GUI's fault. The command line in Windows requires the spaces and slashes of a file path to be properly escaped or quoted. If the GUI is not doing that, then there is nothing we can do. You can try executing the ROMs from the command line by opening a "DOS console" and typing the command to execute a ROM. If it were to fail, it may give an error message and we can move from there. Also, jzIntv requires certain additional command line flags in order to enable ECS or Intellivoice support, and I don't know how that is handled by the GUI front-end, if at all. I am willing to help you but I need you to try some things first. First, I'll install the GUI to see what all the fuzz is about. It may be a brilliant piece of software or it could be a crappy hack, I don't know. I'll see what I can find out by running it myself, later today. By the way, does the creator of the GUI offer any support? dZ. Edited September 12, 2012 by DZ-Jay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rxd Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 C:\jzIntv\bin>jzintv -e exec.bin -g grom.bin -E ecs.bin -z1 "c:\jzintv\rom\di ner.bin" Loading: c:\jzintv\rom\diner.bin jzintv: Initializing Master Component and peripherals... ay8910: Automatic sliding-window setting: 9 joy: Found 3 joystick(s) joy: Joystick JS0 "Microsoft PC-joystick driver" joy: 3 axes, 0 trackball(s), 0 hat(s), 32 button(s) joy: Joystick JS1 "Microsoft PC-joystick driver" joy: 3 axes, 0 trackball(s), 0 hat(s), 11 button(s) joy: Joystick JS2 "Microsoft PC-joystick driver" joy: 5 axes, 0 trackball(s), 1 hat(s), 10 button(s) CP-1610 [0x0000...0x0000] PSG0 AY8914 [0x01F0...0x01FF] [Graphics] [0x0000...0x0000] [sound] [0x0000...0x0000] Scratch RAM [0x0100...0x01EF] System RAM [0x0200...0x035F] EXEC ROM [0x1000...0x1FFF] Pad Pair 0 [0x01F0...0x01FF] STIC [0x0000...0x007F] STIC [0x4000...0x403F] STIC [0x8000...0x803F] STIC [0xC000...0xC03F] STIC (BTAB) [0x0200...0x02EF] STIC (GRAM) [0x3000...0x3FFF] [Event] [0x0000...0x0000] [Rate Ctrl] [0x0000...0x0000] Legacy BIN+CFG [0x5000...0x6FFF] Legacy BIN+CFG [0xD000...0xDFFF] Legacy BIN+CFG [0xF000...0xFFFF] CP-1610 Snoop [0x0200...0x035F] Starting jzIntv... CPU off in the weeds @ PC == ac4d, w = ffff instruction count: 28080 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DZ-Jay Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 C:jzIntvbin>jzintv -e exec.bin -g grom.bin -E ecs.bin -z1 "c:jzintvromdiner.bin" Loading: c:jzintvromdiner.bin jzintv: Initializing Master Component and peripherals... ay8910: Automatic sliding-window setting: 9 joy: Found 3 joystick(s) joy: Joystick JS0 "Microsoft PC-joystick driver" joy: 3 axes, 0 trackball(s), 0 hat(s), 32 button(s) joy: Joystick JS1 "Microsoft PC-joystick driver" joy: 3 axes, 0 trackball(s), 0 hat(s), 11 button(s) joy: Joystick JS2 "Microsoft PC-joystick driver" joy: 5 axes, 0 trackball(s), 1 hat(s), 10 button(s) CP-1610 [0x0000...0x0000] PSG0 AY8914 [0x01F0...0x01FF] [Graphics] [0x0000...0x0000] [sound] [0x0000...0x0000] Scratch RAM [0x0100...0x01EF] System RAM [0x0200...0x035F] EXEC ROM [0x1000...0x1FFF] Pad Pair 0 [0x01F0...0x01FF] STIC [0x0000...0x007F] STIC [0x4000...0x403F] STIC [0x8000...0x803F] STIC [0xC000...0xC03F] STIC (BTAB) [0x0200...0x02EF] STIC (GRAM) [0x3000...0x3FFF] [Event] [0x0000...0x0000] [Rate Ctrl] [0x0000...0x0000] Legacy BIN+CFG [0x5000...0x6FFF] Legacy BIN+CFG [0xD000...0xDFFF] Legacy BIN+CFG [0xF000...0xFFFF] CP-1610 Snoop [0x0200...0x035F] Starting jzIntv... CPU off in the weeds @ PC == ac4d, w = ffff instruction count: 28080 Thanks for that. I'll take a look. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rxd Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 Don't thank me dude, you are helping me. Sorry if I get snippy, it's just frustrating and I'm not (and least the voices in my head tell me I'm not) crazy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DZ-Jay Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 Don't thank me dude, you are helping me.Sorry if I get snippy, it's just frustrating and I'm not (and least the voices in my head tell me I'm not) crazy. No worries, I understand how frustrating this can be. I'll check tonight to see what I can find. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pimpmaul69 Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 Don't thank me dude, you are helping me. Sorry if I get snippy, it's just frustrating and I'm not (and least the voices in my head tell me I'm not) crazy. none of the games i had were .bin and did not have the .cfg files to work. i went through hell finding the info i needed to make the .cfg files and then renamed the games .bin. some roms had more than 1 version but only one version worked as well. so i removed all the crap ones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rxd Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 So you did have problems with roms and jzintv? where did you find roms that work with it? like I said all my roms work with my other emulators, just not jzintv Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DZ-Jay Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 So you did have problems with roms and jzintv?where did you find roms that work with it? like I said all my roms work with my other emulators, just not jzintv I believe that, historically, some ROMs have been hacked and stilted to work around issues with some emulators. Like I said, jzIntv is trying to be as accurate as possible with the way the hardware is simulated. That said, it could also have bugs, and I haven't tried every ROM out there... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pimpmaul69 Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 i didnt find games the work. i had to make .cfg files to make them work.. when i get the chance i will post my cfg file info Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rxd Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 Well if jzintv needs configuration files for each rom then that's going to be my problem. I certainly didn't know this, didn't see this mentioned anywhere or have any idea how to create a configuration file for a rom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rxd Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 That was indeed the problem. jzintv needs cfg files for the roms. You would think this tidbit of knowledge would be mentioned a bit more... Thanks pimpmaul69 for the help. Also DZ-Jay for looking into this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DZ-Jay Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 That was indeed the problem. jzintv needs cfg files for the roms. You would think this tidbit of knowledge would be mentioned a bit more... Thanks pimpmaul69 for the help. Also DZ-Jay for looking into this. Well, as you saw in the output of the emulator, "BIN" files are a legacy format. The newer format is ROM, which contains the CFG file embedded in it. This configuration thing is something that the cartridge communicates to the hardware when the Master Component is started. When older ROMs were dumped, they didn't include that part, just the program code and data. The ROM format is superior because it represents the full cartridge, including its memory configuration. I'm sure the jzIntv documentation contains all that information. Like I said before, the GUI seems to just be a crappy hack. dZ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pimpmaul69 Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 Well, as you saw in the output of the emulator, "BIN" files are a legacy format. The newer format is ROM, which contains the CFG file embedded in it. This configuration thing is something that the cartridge communicates to the hardware when the Master Component is started. When older ROMs were dumped, they didn't include that part, just the program code and data. The ROM format is superior because it represents the full cartridge, including its memory configuration. I'm sure the jzIntv documentation contains all that information. Like I said before, the GUI seems to just be a crappy hack. dZ. not sure where people found the . rom files.. i d/l tons of stuff to only find the .int on most roms then those ones that had probs i renamed .bin and made cfg files Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DZ-Jay Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 not sure where people found the . rom files.. i d/l tons of stuff to only find the .int on most roms then those ones that had probs i renamed .bin and made cfg files There are utilities that come with the jzIntv distribution that convert BIN+CFG into ROM, and vice versa. I think they're called "bin2rom" and "rom2bin." That's one way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rxd Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 But where were we supposed to get the cfg files? Or even know about the need for them? I mean these files should be mentioned everywhere. Hell, why doesn't the emulator come with all of them you need? There's no proprietary info in any of them. It contains no commercial code.... Whatever, it works now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
intvnut Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 But where were we supposed to get the cfg files? Or even know about the need for them? I mean these files should be mentioned everywhere. Hell, why doesn't the emulator come with all of them you need? There's no proprietary info in any of them. It contains no commercial code.... Whatever, it works now. The CFG files appeared alongside the BIN files on the Intellivision Lives! and Intellivision Rocks! CDs. The BIN+CFG format was what Carl's emulator used. It's Carl's invention so far as I can tell. I didn't create it, I only adapted my emulator to use what was provided on those CDs. The format is tricky, really. For games that adhere to the "$5000-$6FFF ; $D000-$DFFF ; $F000-$FFFF" address map (or a subset), no config is necessary. Otherwise, you need the config file. That was the design principle that INTVPC used (INTVPC being the emulator on the original Intellivision Lives! CD), and that's what jzIntv uses. I had to reverse engineer the format, actually. It really kinda sucks. I'd prefer something more robust and more explicit. If you've collected .INT files off of some download site without corresponding .CFGs, then you're missing the configs that go with the binaries. I'm sorry, but that's not jzIntv's fault. (If you have Intellivision Lives! and you're using a Mac that doesn't expose all the files on the CD-ROM you bought, well, that's Steve Jobs' / Apple's fault. That sucks, and I wish I could help you more effectively, but the situation is what it is.) Anyway, I did work with Chad on collecting up a set of CRCs for known game ROMs, and compatible configs to go with them. I haven't integrated that into jzIntv, and I'm not sure if I will. Chad did include that with his GUI for the CC3, though. Maybe I should post the spreadsheet. It turns out that around 9 configs cover just about all pre-homebrew Intellivision games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rxd Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 What is there to integrate? Why not simply drop all the config files in the roms folder that comes with your emulator with a little readme file that says these roms need config files? The rom name must match the config file name. You obviously have them to test your program. Sorry, I truly appreciate the work you did with this emulator, I really do. But as someone who was a programmer himself for 20 years (nothing like emulators, business database apps) I could always see why users would get pissed off at developers.I mean the solution is so simple and requires no coding at all. There is nothing to integrate in to the emulator. That's the old let's write a ton of complex of code to fix a simple issue that can be fixed in another way much more simply, I've seen so many times over the years... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pimpmaul69 Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 The CFG files appeared alongside the BIN files on the Intellivision Lives! and Intellivision Rocks! CDs. The BIN+CFG format was what Carl's emulator used. It's Carl's invention so far as I can tell. I didn't create it, I only adapted my emulator to use what was provided on those CDs. The format is tricky, really. For games that adhere to the "$5000-$6FFF ; $D000-$DFFF ; $F000-$FFFF" address map (or a subset), no config is necessary. Otherwise, you need the config file. That was the design principle that INTVPC used (INTVPC being the emulator on the original Intellivision Lives! CD), and that's what jzIntv uses. I had to reverse engineer the format, actually. It really kinda sucks. I'd prefer something more robust and more explicit. If you've collected .INT files off of some download site without corresponding .CFGs, then you're missing the configs that go with the binaries. I'm sorry, but that's not jzIntv's fault. (If you have Intellivision Lives! and you're using a Mac that doesn't expose all the files on the CD-ROM you bought, well, that's Steve Jobs' / Apple's fault. That sucks, and I wish I could help you more effectively, but the situation is what it is.) Anyway, I did work with Chad on collecting up a set of CRCs for known game ROMs, and compatible configs to go with them. I haven't integrated that into jzIntv, and I'm not sure if I will. Chad did include that with his GUI for the CC3, though. Maybe I should post the spreadsheet. It turns out that around 9 configs cover just about all pre-homebrew Intellivision games. i found all the cfg info from some old posts you had made on other sites. it took me many, many hours of searching to find the right cfg info. one of the problems is many games that didnt work were games not made by intv, like imagic and atarisoft. i have no complaints to you about it. i would go through the same hell for any emulator as good as yours. the end result was worth the work for me. i again thank you for a wonderful emulator. without it i would not be able to play intellivision as my current living situation does not allow for room to keep my intellivision and games out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
intvnut Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 (edited) What is there to integrate? Why not simply drop all the config files in the roms folder that comes with your emulator with a little readme file that says these roms need config files? The rom name must match the config file name. You obviously have them to test your program. Sorry, I truly appreciate the work you did with this emulator, I really do. But as someone who was a programmer himself for 20 years (nothing like emulators, business database apps) I could always see why users would get pissed off at developers.I mean the solution is so simple and requires no coding at all. There is nothing to integrate in to the emulator. That's the old let's write a ton of complex of code to fix a simple issue that can be fixed in another way much more simply, I've seen so many times over the years... Ok, what happens when I name the config "atlantis.cfg" and you get "IMAGIC - Atlantis (1982).int" from some ROM site? The ROM still doesn't work because the names don't match. There's still the support step of explaining "Ok, look in this file, rename things to match, and yeah, your goofy Windows or Mac GUI will probably fight you on this." The most effective way to line up configs with ROMs that could have arbitrary names is to identify the ROMs not by name, but by CRC. That's the "integration" step: I need a CRC table in jzIntv that identifies the ROM. Or something like the "Good ROM Names" utility that would CRC the ROMs, compare it to its internal database, and write out the appropriate config. FWIW, that CRC table is already in jzIntv. I use it to print the correct name for a ROM in the window title, and to set the default ECS and Intellivoice flags for known ROMs. I've avoided adding automatic memory map fixup, since the only real use for that is to aid folks who get their ROMs from a ROM site, as opposed to buying the official game collections. Edited September 16, 2012 by intvnut Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rxd Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 (edited) I get what you're saying and I know I'm coming across as an even more crabby old man than I really am. But like I said if the config files were there and you had a readme file there that said the rom names need to match the config file names users would be 95% there. I just think that when someone who is not a complete computer noob can't make heads or tails out of what is wrong things could be easier. Like I said, I got everything working great thanks to pimpmaul69's help. But I never would have gotten it to work without his help. And that's a damn shame because this emulator is really, really good. Just my 2 cents.... Edited September 16, 2012 by rxd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DZ-Jay Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 I get what you're saying and I know I'm coming across as an even more crabby old man than I really am. But like I said if the config files were there and you had a readme file there that said the rom names need to match the config file names users would be 95% there. I just think that when someone who is not a complete computer noob can't make heads or tails out of what is wrong things could be easier. Like I said, I got everything working great thanks to pimpmaul69's help. But I never would have gotten it to work without his help. And that's a damn shame because this emulator is really, really good. Just my 2 cents.... rxd, I think intvnut's main point is that, if users have the ROMs legitimately, through one of the official game collections, the config files are already there, so there's no need for additional support; and that assisting in the setup or usage of config files just aids those who downloaded the ROMs from the Interwebz, probably illegally. Granted, that may not be the case necessarily, but the most likely cause for having a ROM without a CFG file is that they were acquired through additional means than the official one. -dZ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pimpmaul69 Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 rxd, I think intvnut's main point is that, if users have the ROMs legitimately, through one of the official game collections, the config files are already there, so there's no need for additional support; and that assisting in the setup or usage of config files just aids those who downloaded the ROMs from the Interwebz, probably illegally. Granted, that may not be the case necessarily, but the most likely cause for having a ROM without a CFG file is that they were acquired through additional means than the official one. -dZ. i own the official ones now. i purchased after getting all this to work. i have no problem buying legit ones if price is within means. spiker cart is not in my means. my problem i had was some games that did not work were not available from the collection discs. i am just making a statement. in no way am i bitching at anyone right now. like i said i had to work hard searching to make them work and it was worth it. i understand jz's point. he didnt do it for the people that never contribute to the gaming community. i need one of those new intellivision discs from the event and hopefully there are leftovers put on their site Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gavvv Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 The Activision carts from Rocks all seem to work ok, but all the Imagic itv & cfgs from Rocks do not work in jzIntv gavv Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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