brojamfootball Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 Nice vid, thank you Fujiskunk! Now I have to buy this game... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tep392 Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 Simply brilliant! I have to get one! And I don't think I'll be able to go back to Tempest Extreme after playing this version. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie_ Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 My trak-balls are not in good shap. One won't work at all. The other one doesn't work well with this game - the game keeps thinking I'm rolling the trak-ball to the right slowly, and that messes up the control. I think there is a problem with the trakball code. I have the same problem as Cafeman. Always slow moving to the right and it is very reluctant to move left unless I spin the hell out of it. I just loaded up Missile Command and the trakball is working nice and smooth........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie_ Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 (edited) I just tested with a four port and two port 5200 system. Also two trakballs, bot working well with centipede / Missile Command. It does the same with all the hardware. Always moves slowly to the right (if your guy is on top of the tube). It seems impossible to get the player to move left at the fastest speed no matter how fast you spin the ball. Going right you can easily get the fastest speed. It seems way over sensitive in this direction. All my 5200 systems have the pokey calibrated properly with a value of 107 when using the test cart and a masterplay interface as center. So it seems something in the game is wrong, or maybe too unforgiving in tolerance? Edited October 16, 2012 by Official Ninja Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Posted October 17, 2012 Author Share Posted October 17, 2012 Damn! I've been checking several times a day at the AA 5200 store but nothing. Glad to hear hear there's more, but for the love of God, please tell me they will be complete/CIB! Yes, they will be complete/CIB. ..Al 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dutchman2000 Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 Those of you having trakball problems, The trakball MUST be plugged in before powerup. The game checks to see what controller is attached during initialization. If you are plugging it in after the fact, then it will not work properly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BydoEmpire Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 I only had a chance to play it briefly, but first impression is that it's awesome. The manual is simply fantastic as well, talking about this history of the arcade game and how the 5200 version came to be. Top notch, as expected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie_ Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 Those of you having trakball problems, The trakball MUST be plugged in before powerup. The game checks to see what controller is attached during initialization. If you are plugging itin after the fact, then it will not work properly. I've always done that. Plugged the trakball in and then power on the system. Maybe the code was tested in a system not properly adjusted to start with? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Allan Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 I think what is happening is that the trackball code is not recalibrating itself. I get that sometimes when I first start the game. You might also notice that when you first start the 5200 after the fuji screen, the select screen will keep moving the selected 'Starting level' to the left even when you're not moving the trackball. Once you start a game it might do this a bit in your first game. Most of the time it will correct itself after you finish the first wave/screen. If I start a new game it sems to have corrected itself by then. Plus when I go back to the select screen it no longer wants to move to the left even when you're not moving the trackball at all. Allan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie_ Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 I think what is happening is that the trackball code is not recalibrating itself. I get that sometimes when I first start the game. You might also notice that when you first start the 5200 after the fuji screen, the select screen will keep moving the selected 'Starting level' to the left even when you're not moving the trackball. Once you start a game it might do this a bit in your first game. Most of the time it will correct itself after you finish the first wave/screen. If I start a new game it sems to have corrected itself by then. Plus when I go back to the select screen it no longer wants to move to the left even when you're not moving the trackball at all. Allan On my systems it is very consistent. Always creeps to the right. Like the value for center is off. It prevents movement to the left at the highest speed. However, in the stage select menu at the start of the game, it does not move. It will stay on tube one unless I roll the ball. Ive also thought about how the adjustment changes as the system warms up, but Ive had mine sitting at demo for an hour or more with no change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dutchman2000 Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 I've just played a few games here with my system and trakball and I am not experiencing any issues. The game does calibrate at the menu screen. try moving right then left at the menu and then starting the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atari the Jedi Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 So I have the chance to get a trackball from a local shop. I told myself that I would never get one. But they simply use it as a prop but once told me they wanted $25 smackers for it. Is it worth getting it for Tempest? Are there any other games that it works well with?(assuming the thing actually works) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+FujiSkunk Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 It's been a long time since I priced them, but at first blush, $25 for a 5200 trackball seems reasonable to me, if it works. Quite a few 5200 games boast trackball support, including the obvious ones like Centipede and Missile Command, and they play very well with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Allan Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 I'll try to list them from memory. Missile Command, Centipede, Pole Position, Millipede, Tennis, Soccer, super Breakout, Space Invaders, Galaxian and Pengo. Allan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+FujiSkunk Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 I think Vanguard did too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atari the Jedi Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 I'm thinking of offering less since though I know my way around a stick the trackball is a different course and I would not know how to clean, calibrate or repair one. Honestly I did not want to ever commit the room, but since I'm the only one in town who owns a 5200 or even knows my way around it I'm tempted but ill gave to wait until pay day maybe it'll remain a dusty prop for another week or so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie_ Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 (edited) I've just played a few games here with my system and trakball and I am not experiencing any issues. The game does calibrate at the menu screen. try moving right then left at the menu and then starting the game. Tried it just now. Makes no difference. Have you verified your system is calibrated properly? Seems maybe the code was written around a system just out of tolerance? A loopback plug or Masterplay can be used with the rom for the test cart. With a Masterplay 107 is what you want. 110 with a loopback. Here is a discussion about adjusting the pokey: http://www.atariage....on/#entry164111 Edited October 17, 2012 by Official Ninja Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Allan Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 I just got a new high-score. 89,945 I think it will take me a while to pass 100,000. Allan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dutchman2000 Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 Yep, my system is calibrated per Atari specs. So is my trakball. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie_ Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 Yep, my system is calibrated per Atari specs. So is my trakball. So what could be the problem then? I have 3 systems, 2 trakballs. Obviously not the only one having issues with using the trakball. I would say maybe the trakballs themselves, but all other software works fine with them. I even played some Galaxian tonight, as I had never tried that with the trakball. Sorry for the frustration, but the game is fantastic and would be better with correct trakball support. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dutchman2000 Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 The way that trakball support is implemented in Tempest is that it is treated the same as a velocity stick, only the range is adjusted so the trakball can work with the game. As for the trakball range I found that it ranges from $A6 to $57 with $7A being the centered value. If your trakball is off-center then it could behave the way you described. The game firsts checks to see if a joystick or trakball is connected. We do this by checking the value of PADDL0. First we disable the controllers and then read PADDL0. The results are then compared. If the value is an $E4 then a joystick is present and the game sets up for a joystick. If the value is a $7A then a trakball is present and the game sets up for trakball. Then the controllers are reenabled and the menu comes up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie_ Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 The way that trakball support is implemented in Tempest is that it is treated the same as a velocity stick, only the range is adjusted so the trakball can work with the game. As for the trakball range I found that it ranges from $A6 to $57 with $7A being the centered value. If your trakball is off-center then it could behave the way you described. The game firsts checks to see if a joystick or trakball is connected. We do this by checking the value of PADDL0. First we disable the controllers and then read PADDL0. The results are then compared. If the value is an $E4 then a joystick is present and the game sets up for a joystick. If the value is a $7A then a trakball is present and the game sets up for trakball. Then the controllers are reenabled and the menu comes up. That is all well and good. Fact of the matter is the way it is done in Tempest does not work for all the hardware out there. Even if trakball values vary from device to device, wouldn't it be correct to assume code would need to compensate for this? In one way or another. Fact is all other software made for the devices, works with the devices. It is not only me, but others and it hasn't even hit the AtariAge store yet. I also find it hard to believe both of my trakballs are "off" in the same way. Even if so, it might be something that needs to be considered. At 25+ years old they might not read the same as new? Just an idea.... That being said, it would be a shame to have this stay as is and not work for everyone. The game is really good with the stick. I am guessing it will be even better, with the ball, as the ball works like the spinner. This might make me unpopular for saying, but it seems you are trying to defend something that does not work for multiple users instead of trying to find out what the issue is. Thats great that it works for you.... Again, the fact remains, all other software for the devices works great. I'm not trying to be a trouble maker. I just would like to see it resolved. The Tempest title for the 5200 has been dreamed about for years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BydoEmpire Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 I just got a new high-score. 89,945 I think it will take me a while to pass 100,000. Allan Wow, I was happy I passed 11k this morning... Clearly I have some work to do... really fun game, though. Thanks again to everyone involved in bringing this out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Cafeman Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 (edited) Ken, don't feel like we are in any way attacking your efforts here. I also feel the disappointment that the trak-ball doesn't work for me. If we could figure out why, then the ROM could be adjusted and future copies could be fixed. Working with 30-year old hardware, there's bound to be issues like this. If we can figure out why, it will help future efforts to avoid any pitfalls. Personally I have no idea if my system or trak-ball is calibrated correctly or not; I just know that it works for other games, but not for Tempest because it keeps creeping right and doesn't allow left movement well at all. If anybody else has had issues, or success, with their trak-balls, please chime in. Thankfully the joystick control is PERFECT, so this issue isn't a game-breaker or anything. Edited October 18, 2012 by Cafeman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dutchman2000 Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 Ken, don't feel like we are in any way attacking your efforts here. I also feel the disappointment that the trak-ball doesn't work for me. If we could figure out why, then the ROM could be adjusted and future copies could be fixed. Working with 30-year old hardware, there's bound to be issues like this. If we can figure out why, it will help future efforts to avoid any pitfalls. Personally I have no idea if my system or trak-ball is calibrated correctly or not; I just know that it works for other games, but not for Tempest because it keeps creeping right and doesn't allow left movement well at all. If anybody else has had issues, or success, with their trak-balls, please chime in. Thankfully the joystick control is PERFECT, so this issue isn't a game-breaker or anything. That is all well and good. Fact of the matter is the way it is done in Tempest does not work for all the hardware out there. Even if trakball values vary from device to device, wouldn't it be correct to assume code would need to compensate for this? In one way or another. Fact is all other software made for the devices, works with the devices. It is not only me, but others and it hasn't even hit the AtariAge store yet. I also find it hard to believe both of my trakballs are "off" in the same way. Even if so, it might be something that needs to be considered. At 25+ years old they might not read the same as new? Just an idea.... That being said, it would be a shame to have this stay as is and not work for everyone. The game is really good with the stick. I am guessing it will be even better, with the ball, as the ball works like the spinner. This might make me unpopular for saying, but it seems you are trying to defend something that does not work for multiple users instead of trying to find out what the issue is. Thats great that it works for you.... Again, the fact remains, all other software for the devices works great. I'm not trying to be a trouble maker. I just would like to see it resolved. The Tempest title for the 5200 has been dreamed about for years. I am sorry that you are having problems, our aim was to try and make Tempest the best we could. Remember we did this out of our spare time and the desire to get 5200 Tempest finished for all to enjoy. There is no proper documentation on how to properly implement support for the trakball. We are not Atari, and do not have the resources they had. This is probably the reason why trakball support is absent from most homebrew efforts. What I found out worked for me and all the testers. If it does not happen for me or them there is no way for me to figure out what is happening. It is possible that the other Atari games use some kind of calibration technique to compensate for out-of-spec trakballs. We were not able to figure that out for Tempest, what we wrote worked well and there was no need to spend more time figuring it out. Plug in your trakball and diagnostic cart. Go into POKEY test and tell me what value your trakballs are reporting as center. Should read 122 or close to that. When spinning it, the values should never be lower then 87 or higher then 166. I can try changing the range based on what you report. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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